The Religion Discussion

[Sky]

Sky,
I submit to you that IDOLATRY / POLYTHEISM is far worse than MURDER in the sight of GOD.

Why? Simply because the former is the greatest sin (against GOD that HE will not forgive) and the latter is a lesser but still major sin that can be forgiven (even by the family of the victim).

Perfect Justice will be meted out to all by GOD, so those who were killed for no apparent reason will have their recompense on a most dreadful Day. So too the murderers and perpetrators of similar crimes.

You have to be trolling...
Polytheism is having multiple beliefs. 40 beliefs from 40 different people means they each have 40 beliefs?I can't find a word to describe your intelligence, other than "absent".

And lemme get this straight. If a muslim kills a little girl who wants to learn, he does it in the name of Allah, but he's wrong for doing so, and she'll be compensated on judgement day, while the same man who did it for Allah will pay....If Allah actually exists.

See this is why American soldiers have no problem putting bullets in middle easterners' heads. That kind of fked up thinking they have. America really need to stop pussyfooting around with these animals and deal with them yes.

[DFC]

Sky,
I submit to you that IDOLATRY / POLYTHEISM is far worse than MURDER in the sight of GOD.

Why? Simply because the former is the greatest sin (against GOD that HE will not forgive) and the latter is a lesser but still major sin that can be forgiven (even by the family of the victim).

Perfect Justice will be meted out to all by GOD, so those who were killed for no apparent reason will have their recompense on a most dreadful Day. So too the murderers and perpetrators of similar crimes.

[megadoc1]

I submit to you that IDOLATRY / POLYTHEISM is far worse than MURDER in the sight of GOD.

translation ..[blinkered]"doh worry about us breaking God's law against murder! yuh see because there are people who break his other laws such as idolatry and we consider those that they break worst than the ones we break so I don't see the issue here"[/blinkered]

[Gladiator]

Sky,
I submit to you that IDOLATRY / POLYTHEISM is far worse than MURDER in the sight of GOD.

Why? Simply because the former is the greatest sin (against GOD that HE will not forgive) and the latter is a lesser but still major sin that can be forgiven (even by the family of the victim).

Perfect Justice will be meted out to all by GOD, so those who were killed for no apparent reason will have their recompense on a most dreadful Day. So too the murderers and perpetrators of similar crimes.

Another sickness with no cure!

[megadoc1]

Why? Simply because the former is the greatest sin (against GOD that HE will not forgive) and the latter is a lesser but still major sin that can be forgiven (even by the family of the victim).

Islam or the Qur'an. does not teach that idolatry is not forgiven I think it encourages one to turn away from idolatry and serve Allah .....but if you are correct then you make Allah a great deceiver!!
and why come to allah if he is never gonna forgive me for worshiping an idol? is best I worship meh "devil" and live meh life cause I still gonna get wounded for doing it
adam b you are in error!

[AdamB]

No, Megadoc.

The punishment for murder is to put the murderor to death. His sin is then atoned. That means that when he meets his Lord on the Day of Judgment, then he will not be punished again (twice). Or he can be forgiven by the victim's family in exchange for "blood money" , as its called, to help the dependents of the victim move on with their life. In this case he has to seek forgiveness and repentance for his sin.

I did not say that idolatry and polytheism is not forgiven in this life. If one of these repent and turn to Allah and then worship Him Alone (without any partner), correctly (according to Islamic Monotheism), then ALL his sins are forgiven when he accepts Islam.

It is not forgiven in the Hereafter / Day of Judgment, if the person dies upon that without repenting or accepting Islam.

Megadoc, for God's sake, don't say things about Allah that you don't know like HE is a Deceiver. We all need to estimate HIM with the Proper Estimation HE deserves. HE is my Lord and your Lord.

We need to have an almost equal amount of HOPE and FEAR of GOD, but just a little more of HOPE. HOPE in HIS forgiveness (reward) and FEAR of HIS punishment. Why? So that the person does not become despondent and lose hope as you just did above.

[AdamB]

Sky,
I submit to you that IDOLATRY / POLYTHEISM is far worse than MURDER in the sight of GOD.

Why? Simply because the former is the greatest sin (against GOD that HE will not forgive) and the latter is a lesser but still major sin that can be forgiven (even by the family of the victim).

Perfect Justice will be meted out to all by GOD, so those who were killed for no apparent reason will have their recompense on a most dreadful Day. So too the murderers and perpetrators of similar crimes.

Another sickness with no cure!

There is a cure for the sickness of not seeing beyond your nose, the cure is called ISLAM.

I did not say that murder is a LIGHT SIN. No, it is a HEAVY SIN, even listed in the 10 COMMANDMENTS OF MOSES. To kill a single person is like killing the whole of humanity, that is the Islamic view, so imagine the punishment for it!!

However, idolatry / polytheism is MUCH worse, it is exceeding the Limits, that this sin will not be forgiven by GOD if a person were to meet his Lord with this burden of sin. So imagine, the punishment for this in comparison with murder.

Enough said.

[DFC]

No, Megadoc.

The punishment for murder is to put the murderor to death. His sin is then atoned. That means that when he meets his Lord on the Day of Judgment, then he will not be punished again (twice). Or he can be forgiven by the victim's family in exchange for "blood money" , as its called, to help the dependents of the victim move on with their life. In this case he has to seek forgiveness and repentance for his sin.

I did not say that idolatry and polytheism is not forgiven in this life. If one of these repent and turn to Allah and then worship Him Alone (without any partner), correctly (according to Islamic Monotheism), then ALL his sins are forgiven when he accepts Islam.

It is not forgiven in the Hereafter / Day of Judgment, if the person dies upon that without repenting or accepting Islam.

Megadoc, for God's sake, don't say things about Allah that you don't know like HE is a Deceiver. We all need to estimate HIM with the Proper Estimation HE deserves. HE is my Lord and your Lord.

We need to have an almost equal amount of HOPE and FEAR of GOD, but just a little more of HOPE. HOPE in HIS forgiveness (reward) and FEAR of HIS punishment. Why? So that the person does not become despondent and lose hope as you just did above.

There is a cure for the sickness of not seeing beyond your nose, the cure is called ISLAM.

I did not say that murder is a LIGHT SIN. No, it is a HEAVY SIN, even listed in the 10 COMMANDMENTS OF MOSES. To kill a single person is like killing the whole of humanity, that is the Islamic view, so imagine the punishment for it!!

However, idolatry / polytheism is MUCH worse, it is exceeding the Limits, that this sin will not be forgiven by GOD if a person were to meet his Lord with this burden of sin. So imagine, the punishment for this in comparison with murder.

Enough said.

ah jus quoting for future reference.

i have some thoughts on this that i will post in a bit.

[AdamB]

^if you did research you will learn that the Jehovah witness' view on Jesus is that of Arianism which was one of the issues dealt with at the council of Nicaea

Obviously since this message of being changed by man was sent down by GOD to Muhammad, then the change took place prior to his time ie sometime in the six centuries after Jesus.
What you have written in the current "New Testament" is NOT the Injeel, the Gospel sent down by GOD to Jesus.

You keep fooling yourself or choose to look for the truth concerning it.


The evidence is the questionable authenticity, authorship and "preservation" which you know is where the tampering took place.

adam b show us where in the Qur'an teaches that the bible was changed by man, theses verses below does not convey that message..the Qur'an disagrees with you!!!
if the bible was changed before Muhammad, why the Qur'an does not speak about it?

The Qur'an declares the Bible acceptable and advocates that it be studied and obeyed.

"It was We who revealed the Law to Moses, therein was guidance and light ... and in their footsteps, We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel, therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him, a guidance and admonition to those who fear Allah. To thee (Mohammed) We sent the Scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety." (Sura 5:47-51). (My own emphasis).

"'O, People of the Book! Ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord.' It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy ... those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (Scriptures), and the Sabaeans and the Christians - any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, - on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." (Sura 5:71-72). (My emphasis).

"If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness." (Sura 5:69). (See also Suras 5:16, 7:169). (My emphasis).

"Dispute not with the People of the Book, save in the fairer manner, except for those of them that do wrong; and say: 'We believe in what has been sent down to us, and what has been sent down to you; Our God and your God is One and to Him we have surrendered.'" (Sura 29:45). (My emphasis).

"This Qur'an could not have been forged apart from God; but it is a confirmation of what is before it ..." (Sura 10:37). (My emphasis).

"Before it was the Book of Moses for a model and a mercy; and this is a book confirming in Arabic tongue to warn the evil-doers and good tidings to the good-doers." (Sura 46:11). (My emphasis).

"Who sent down the Book that Moses brought as a light and guidance to men? You put it onto parchments, revealing some, and hiding much; and by which you were taught that you knew not, you and your fathers. Say, 'God'". (Sura 6:91). (My emphasis).

"And what We have revealed to thee of the Book, is the truth, confirming what is before it." (Sura 35:31). (My emphasis).

"Children of Israel ... believe in that I have sent down, confirming the revelation that is with you and be not the first to disbelieve in it ... and do not confound the truth with vanity and do not conceal the truth wittingly (i.e. concealing the truth against better knowledge)". (Sura 2:40-42). (My emphasis).

The above texts presuppose the availability of knowledge of that which has been confirmed, presupposing that the Torah was available in an unadulterated form during the time of Mohammed.

"We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of Apostles. We gave Jesus, son of Mary, clear signs and strengthened (or confirmed) him with the Holy Spirit." (Sura 2:87).

"And when there comes to them (the Jews) a Book from Allah, confirming what is with them (the Taurat) ... they refused to believe in it." (Sura 2:89). (My emphasis).

"He has sent down upon thee the Book with the truth, confirming what was before it and He sent down Torah and the Gospel afore time, as guidance to the People and He sent down salvation." (Sura 3:3). (My emphasis).

There is no doubt that at least as early as A.D. 350 well before the time of Mohammed there was a uniform canon of the Bible and nothing has been changed, adulterated, polluted or perverted since.

"Before thee (i.e. Mohammed), also, the Apostles we sent were but men ... If you realise this not, ASK of THOSE WHO POSSESS THE MESSAGE." (Sura 21:7).

"BELIEVE IN Allah and His Messenger and the Scripture which He hath revealed unto his Messenger, and THE SCRIPTURE WHICH HE REVEALED AFORETIME. WHOSO DISBELIEVETH IN Allah and His Angles and the Last Day, HE VERILY HATH WANDERED FAR ASTRAY." (Sura 4:136).

"Each one believeth in Allah and His Angels and His Scriptures and His Messengers - WE MAKE NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN ANY OF HIS MESSENGERS." (Sura 2:285).

"Say: 'Bring you the Torah now and recite (or read) it, if you are men of truth'" (Again the existence of the Torah is presupposed). (Sura 3:93).

"You who have been given the Book, believe in what We have sent down, confirming that which is with you." (Sura 4:47). (My emphasis).

How could they compare the two, if one were lost? (See also Suras 5:43,46,48,65-68; 66:12; 2:44,53; 3:70,78; 5:13,15; 4:44-46 and 2:78,79).

We see quite clearly that the accusations against Jews and Christians are not that they have corrupted Scripture, but they have misinterpreted, concealed or disobeyed it.

"There is none that can change the Words of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those Apostles (or: the other Apostles also say so)." (Sura 6:34).

"No change can there be in the Words of Allah." (Sura 10:64).

http://www.answering-islam.org/Nehls/Answer/corrupt.html

http://muslim-responses.com/Part_1B/Part_1B_

Does the Quran Affirm the Bible?

By Sami Zaatari

Part 1(B)
We now continue our rebuttal series to Sam Shamoun's own series of articles where he seeks to prove that the Quran affirms the present day Bible. Again Shamoun's comments will be in green followed by my responses in black.

The missionary writes:
Sura 7:156-157:
"And I will write down (my mercy) for those who are righteous and give alms and who believe in our signs; who follow the apostle, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in the Torah and the Gospel THAT IS WITH THEM.

Remark: This verse states that there is a prophecy of Muhammad to be found in the Gospel [singular] available during that time. This destroys the Muslim contention that the Quran mentions the Gospel given to Jesus, not the gospels written about him, since the only Gospel in usage at the time of Muhammad were the same four-fold Gospel accounts contained within our modern-day New Testaments.)

RESPONSE

Although the current Bible we have today which includes the Torah and the Gospels are corrupt, we can still call them the Gospel and Torah, why? Well that's how the people understand them to be, Christians have no problem in calling all 4 Gospels the Gospel, hence the fact the Quran labels their Gospels as a Gospel is not affirming its authority, rather it is simply using terms which both the Muslims and Christians would understand. Hence the Quran is trying to make things easy and simple for the people.

And once again Shamoun is using selective citation, had he taken the Quran, hadiths, and tafsir as a whole he would see that all these sources show that the present day Bible we have is corrupt. Hence my explanation is not merely fancy guess-work, my explanation is based on all the context of the Quran, hadiths, and tafsir put together.

Shamoun then goes on to quote another verse to try and prove his weak points, he quotes:
Sura 5:46:
"But why do they (the Jews) come to thee for decision, when they have the Torah in which IS the command of God."

RESPONSE

It seems Shamoun is in need of some Quranic education, since he quotes this verse out of its proper context, had Shamoun bothered to study the context and background of this verse he would see that this verse is not affirming the present day Torah, rather it is exposing the hypocrisy and crookedness of the Jews around the prophet Muhammad. Since Shamoun needs some education on this verse, I shall be more than happy to give it to him free of charge, all you must do for me is to pay attention.

Now to begin with, this verse was revealed in connection to an event that took place in Madinah, which was that one day a group of Jews came to the prophet Muhammad asking him what is the ruling on punishing and adulterer and adulteress, the prophet Muhammad logically told them to bring their Torah which they had with them to see if their book had a ruling on this matter. The Jews brought their Torah, and they kept hiding the part which stated the punishment for the adulterer and adulteress, instead of carrying out the prescribed punishment which was given in the Torah, the Jews made their own customs and own deviant forms of punishment, such as flogging and humiliating them publicly. However so the prophet and his companions exposed them for their lies and deceit, the prophet and his companions found the prescribed punishment for adultery, and that was stoning, hence the Jews were exposed for their deceit, and making up false interpretations concerning their book.

Hence the moral of the verse is why are you the Jews coming to the prophet Muhammad asking him about rulings if you have your own book the Torah, which does in fact have the prescribed ruling that you are looking for, hence why are you going to the prophet Muhammad to ask him about an issue which is already in your book? Hence it is exposing their crookedness and deceit.

Here is Ibn Kathir's tafsir:

(they say, "If you are given this, take it, but if you are not given this, then beware!") It was reported that this part of the Ayah was revealed about some Jews who committed murder and who said to each other, "Let us ask Muhammad to judge between us, and if he decides that we pay the Diyah, accept his judgement. If he decides on capital punishment, do not accept his judgement.'' The correct opinion is that this Ayah was revealed about the two Jews who committed adultery. The Jews changed the law they had in their Book from Allah on the matter of punishment for adultery, from stoning to death, to a hundred flogs and making the offenders ride a donkey facing the back of the donkey. When this incident of adultery occurred after the Hijrah, they said to each other, "Let us go to Muhammad and seek his judgement. If he gives a ruling of flogging, then implement his decision and make it a proof for you with Allah. This way, one of Allah's Prophets will have upheld this ruling amongst you. But if he decides that the punishment should be stoning to death, then do not accept his decision.'' There are several Hadiths mentioning this story. Malik reported that Nafi` said that `Abdullah bin `Umar said, "The Jews came to Allah's Messenger and mentioned that a man and a woman from them committed adultery. Allah's Messenger said to them,

(What do find of the ruling about stoning in the Tawrah) They said, `We only find that they should be exposed and flogged.' `Abdullah bin Salam said, `You lie. The Tawrah mentions stoning, so bring the Tawrah.' They brought the Tawrah and opened it but one of them hid the verse about stoning with his hand and recited what is before and after that verse. `Abdullah bin Salam said to him, `Remove your hand,' and he removed it, thus uncovering the verse about stoning. So they said, He (`Abdullah bin Salam) has said the truth, O Muhammad! It is the verse about stoning.' The Messenger of Allah decided that the adulterers be stoned to death and his command was carried out. I saw that man shading the woman from the stones with his body.'' Al-Bukhari and Muslim also collected this Hadith and this is the wording collected by Al-Bukhari. In another narration by Al-Bukhari, the Prophet said to the Jews,

(What would you do in this case) They said, "We would humiliate and expose them.'' The Prophet recited,

(Bring here the Tawrah and recite it, if you are truthful.) So they brought a man who was blind in one eye and who was respected among them and said to him, "Read (from the Tawrah).'' So he read until he reached a certain verse and then covered it with his hand. He was told, "Remove your hand,'' and it was the verse about stoning. So that man said, "O Muhammad! This is the verse about stoning, and we had hid its knowledge among us.'' So the Messenger ordered that the two adulterers be stoned, and they were stoned. Muslim recorded that a Jewish man and a Jewish woman were brought before Allah's Messenger because they committed adultery. The Messenger of Allah went to the Jews and asked them,

(What is the ruling that you find in the Tawrah for adultery) hThey said, "We expose them, carry them (on donkeys) backwards and parade them in public.'' The Prophet recited;

(Bring here the Tawrah and recite it, if you are truthful.) So they brought the Tawrah and read from it until the reader reached the verse about stoning. Then he placed his hand on that verse and read what was before and after it. `Abdullah bin Salam, who was with the Messenger of Allah , said, "Order him to remove his hand,'' and he removed his hand and under it was the verse about stoning. So the Messenger of Allah commanded that the adulterers be stoned, and they were stoned. `Abdullah bin `Umar said, "I was among those who stoned them and I saw the man shading the woman from the stones with his body.'' Abu Dawud recorded that Ibn `Umar said, "Some Jews came to the Messenger of Allah and invited him to go to the Quff area. So he went to the house of Al-Midras and they said, `O Abu Al-Qasim! A man from us committed adultery with a woman, so decide on their matter.' They arranged a pillow for the Messenger of Allah and he sat on it and said,

(Bring the Tawrah to me.) He was brought the Tawrah and he removed the pillow from under him and placed the Tawrah on it, saying,

(I trust you and He Who revealed it to you.) He then said,

(Bring me your most knowledgeable person.) So he was brought a young man... '' and then he mentioned the rest of the story that Malik narrated from Nafi`. These Hadiths state that the Messenger of Allah issued a decision that conforms with the ruling in the Tawrah, not to honor the Jews in what they believe in, for the Jews were commanded to follow the Law of Muhammad only. Rather, the Prophet did this because Allah commanded him to do so. He asked them about the ruling of stoning in the Tawrah to make them admit to what the Tawrah contains and what they collaborated to hide, deny and exclude from implementing for all that time. They had to admit to what they did, although they did it while having knowledge of the correct ruling. What made them go to the Prophet for judgement in this matter was their lusts and desires, hoping that the Prophet would agree with their opinion, not that they believed in the correctness of his judgment.

So the context of the verse was revealed in connection to this situation, why are the Jews coming to the prophet Muhammad to ask about rulings concerning Jews if they have the Torah? It is to simply expose them for their deceit, and evil lustful desires. How sad Shamoun could not see that, in fact I know for certainty that Shamoun knew that this verse was connected to this issue because he always quotes this tafsir of Ibn Kathir, hence how did he suddenly miss this point when he always talks about it?! Deceit is a mighty missionary charm it seems.

[megadoc1]

lol ....adam b you serious dan? anyways can you tell us when the bible was corrupted and who did it?

[d spike]

And why do you think Dspike has been silent on this topic, he knows what I am saying is the correct view!

How fascinating... and so full of oneself.
You posted that load of gobbledegook on Sat Oct 27, 2012 12:47 am. If I had read it, I would have dealt with it - however, I had headed up to the estate Friday night to spend a relaxing weekend far from the glorious examples of ignorance that our society has blessed us with... I have just returned, tired and satisfied, and then to read the offal quoted above...
I will respond when the joy of the weekend has passed.

Which is correct the bible with 66 or 73 books? Was this a translation glitch too? But it's there...

The ONLY way you could think this is a "translation glitch" is for you to be totally ignorant of the very topic of which you are speaking... (Sorry, for a moment I forgot who I was speaking to...)
Any history book will explain that situation. Luther had decided that certain books shouldn't be in the Bible, so he threw them out of his version - his followers later put some back
Again I suggest to you, to find out about that which you want to talk about BEFORE you talk - it will save you from looking like an idiot.

Sky,
I submit to you that IDOLATRY / POLYTHEISM is far worse than MURDER in the sight of GOD.

Why? Simply because the former is the greatest sin (against GOD that HE will not forgive)

As tired as I am, it would be totally irresponsible of me to allow this argument to continue, for no one seems to be explaining a very simple fact to AdamB.
In order for a sin to be committed, one must first DECIDE to perform the sinful act.
Polytheism is the worship of multiple gods. In order to be guilty, one must willfully worship MULTIPLE gods.
If a Hindu is convinced that he is worshipping ONE god in his revering that god's many manifestations, then he cannot be guilty. In his mind, he is worshipping ONE god.
Same thing for Christians who believe in the Trinity - in their minds it is ONE god.
I wish some people would THINK first before inflicting their ignorance on the rest of us.

Cheers

[AdamB]

Megadoc,
Answering-Islam.org, really...LOL

I ask again, agreed upon source of unbiased information?

[AdamB]

Dspike,
You are wrong. You seem to be ignorant of the fact that GOD is the one who determines what is worship acceptable to HIM, polytheism and idolatry. Ignorance that is covered by pride so that the one who has it cannot see but his own selfish desires to be true and correct.

Two examples from your book:
1. The 2nd Commandment of Moses. The use of IMAGES in worship. Why has this been prohibited? This would include the use of idols / manifestations / cross / statue of Mary, etc.

2. The building of the Golden Calf by the Israelites when Moses went up to Mt Sinai to receive the 10 Commandments. They used the Golden Calf as a focal point, the same argument that Hindus use, as a means of nearness (getting closer) to GOD. But it was rejected. WHY? Can you tell me what was the punishment for this?

It would be interesting to get the view of "mainstream" christians on this because once again, you put forward your views without any supporting textual references. Megadoc, RedFraction, Nismotrinidappa?

On the translation issue, my christian brothers, what does the Bible say about adding or taking away from the Word of GOD?

And we haven't said anything about Paul as yet!!

[mamoo_pagal]

Dspike,
You are wrong. You seem to be ignorant of the fact that GOD is the one who determines what is worship acceptable to HIM, polytheism and idolatry. Ignorance that is covered by pride so that the one who has it cannot see but his own selfish desires to be true and correct.

Two examples from your book:
1. The 2nd Commandment of Moses. The use of IMAGES in worship. Why has this been prohibited? This would include the use of idols / manifestations / cross / statue of Mary, etc.

2. The building of the Golden Calf by the Israelites when Moses went up to Mt Sinai to receive the 10 Commandments. They used the Golden Calf as a focal point, the same argument that Hindus use, as a means of nearness (getting closer) to GOD. But it was rejected. WHY? Can you tell me what was the punishment for this?

It would be interesting to get the view of "mainstream" christians on this because once again, you put forward your views without any supporting textual references. Megadoc, RedFraction, Nismotrinidappa?

On the translation issue, my christian brothers, what does the Bible say about adding or taking away from the Word of GOD?

And we haven't said anything about Paul as yet!!

Kasey, DFC, Dizzy and other hindus,
Bulls were slaughtered yesterday by Muslims as part of a ritual that commemorates the sacrifice of prophet Abraham. We hope by this act to use it as a means of nearness to GOD.

Is it true that cows worshipped in Hinduism? Or held divinely sacred?

Is killing of a cow equivalent to killing of a Brahman (high priest)?

Are hindus offended by this act?

so in other words, this god fellow you refer to, prefers living animal(s) be killed/slaughtered as a more "effective" means of worship .............rubbish

[AdamB]

No, Megadoc.

The punishment for murder is to put the murderor to death. His sin is then atoned. That means that when he meets his Lord on the Day of Judgment, then he will not be punished again (twice). Or he can be forgiven by the victim's family in exchange for "blood money" , as its called, to help the dependents of the victim move on with their life. In this case he has to seek forgiveness and repentance for his sin.

I did not say that idolatry and polytheism is not forgiven in this life. If one of these repent and turn to Allah and then worship Him Alone (without any partner), correctly (according to Islamic Monotheism), then ALL his sins are forgiven when he accepts Islam.

It is not forgiven in the Hereafter / Day of Judgment, if the person dies upon that without repenting or accepting Islam.

Megadoc, for God's sake, don't say things about Allah that you don't know like HE is a Deceiver. We all need to estimate HIM with the Proper Estimation HE deserves. HE is my Lord and your Lord.

We need to have an almost equal amount of HOPE and FEAR of GOD, but just a little more of HOPE. HOPE in HIS forgiveness (reward) and FEAR of HIS punishment. Why? So that the person does not become despondent and lose hope as you just did above.

There is a cure for the sickness of not seeing beyond your nose, the cure is called ISLAM.

I did not say that murder is a LIGHT SIN. No, it is a HEAVY SIN, even listed in the 10 COMMANDMENTS OF MOSES. To kill a single person is like killing the whole of humanity, that is the Islamic view, so imagine the punishment for it!!

However, idolatry / polytheism is MUCH worse, it is exceeding the Limits, that this sin will not be forgiven by GOD if a person were to meet his Lord with this burden of sin. So imagine, the punishment for this in comparison with murder.

Enough said.

ah jus quoting for future reference.

i have some thoughts on this that i will post in a bit.

Tell me what are your thoughts on GOD,
Cause I really want to hear it!!

[mamoo_pagal]

oh and as DSpike and other requested so many times before that YOU do the same........can you comply to your own request

[AdamB]

Dspike,
You are wrong. You seem to be ignorant of the fact that GOD is the one who determines what is worship acceptable to HIM, polytheism and idolatry. Ignorance that is covered by pride so that the one who has it cannot see but his own selfish desires to be true and correct.

Two examples from your book:
1. The 2nd Commandment of Moses. The use of IMAGES in worship. Why has this been prohibited? This would include the use of idols / manifestations / cross / statue of Mary, etc.

2. The building of the Golden Calf by the Israelites when Moses went up to Mt Sinai to receive the 10 Commandments. They used the Golden Calf as a focal point, the same argument that Hindus use, as a means of nearness (getting closer) to GOD. But it was rejected. WHY? Can you tell me what was the punishment for this?

It would be interesting to get the view of "mainstream" christians on this because once again, you put forward your views without any supporting textual references. Megadoc, RedFraction, Nismotrinidappa?

On the translation issue, my christian brothers, what does the Bible say about adding or taking away from the Word of GOD?

And we haven't said anything about Paul as yet!!

Kasey, DFC, Dizzy and other hindus,
Bulls were slaughtered yesterday by Muslims as part of a ritual that commemorates the sacrifice of prophet Abraham. We hope by this act to use it as a means of nearness to GOD.

Is it true that cows worshipped in Hinduism? Or held divinely sacred?

Is killing of a cow equivalent to killing of a Brahman (high priest)?

Are hindus offended by this act?

so in other words, this god fellow you refer to, prefers living animal(s) be killed/slaughtered as a more "effective" means of worship .............rubbish

More effective than what Mamoo? Please answer the questions I asked, if you are hindu.

Why would GOD contradict Himself by telling one group of people NOT to slaughter cows and another group to specifically slaughter cattle which includes cows?

[mamoo_pagal]

Dspike,
You are wrong. You seem to be ignorant of the fact that GOD is the one who determines what is worship acceptable to HIM, polytheism and idolatry. Ignorance that is covered by pride so that the one who has it cannot see but his own selfish desires to be true and correct.

Two examples from your book:
1. The 2nd Commandment of Moses. The use of IMAGES in worship. Why has this been prohibited? This would include the use of idols / manifestations / cross / statue of Mary, etc.

2. The building of the Golden Calf by the Israelites when Moses went up to Mt Sinai to receive the 10 Commandments. They used the Golden Calf as a focal point, the same argument that Hindus use, as a means of nearness (getting closer) to GOD. But it was rejected. WHY? Can you tell me what was the punishment for this?

It would be interesting to get the view of "mainstream" christians on this because once again, you put forward your views without any supporting textual references. Megadoc, RedFraction, Nismotrinidappa?

On the translation issue, my christian brothers, what does the Bible say about adding or taking away from the Word of GOD?

And we haven't said anything about Paul as yet!!

Kasey, DFC, Dizzy and other hindus,
Bulls were slaughtered yesterday by Muslims as part of a ritual that commemorates the sacrifice of prophet Abraham. We hope by this act to use it as a means of nearness to GOD.

Is it true that cows worshipped in Hinduism? Or held divinely sacred?

Is killing of a cow equivalent to killing of a Brahman (high priest)?

Are hindus offended by this act?

so in other words, this god fellow you refer to, prefers living animal(s) be killed/slaughtered as a more "effective" means of worship .............rubbish

More effective than what Mamoo? Please answer the questions I asked, if you are hindu.

Why would GOD contradict Himself by telling one group of people NOT to slaughter cows and another group to specifically slaughter cattle which includes cows.

why would this God character command in the first place people to slaughter animals as a means to get closer to him. How can one kill to get closer to God?

My faith is irrelevant, as I am particularly perturbed by your two contributions quoted above. Where you are implying that any particular faith (hindu,christian....ect.) are sinners for using inanimate objects as a means to get closer to god vs a particular belief system that still condones the KILLING of thousands of animals to accomplish a "closer bond". How can the slaughter of anything lead to "nearness" God?

[AdamB]

Dspike,
You are wrong. You seem to be ignorant of the fact that GOD is the one who determines what is worship acceptable to HIM, polytheism and idolatry. Ignorance that is covered by pride so that the one who has it cannot see but his own selfish desires to be true and correct.

Two examples from your book:
1. The 2nd Commandment of Moses. The use of IMAGES in worship. Why has this been prohibited? This would include the use of idols / manifestations / cross / statue of Mary, etc.

2. The building of the Golden Calf by the Israelites when Moses went up to Mt Sinai to receive the 10 Commandments. They used the Golden Calf as a focal point, the same argument that Hindus use, as a means of nearness (getting closer) to GOD. But it was rejected. WHY? Can you tell me what was the punishment for this?

It would be interesting to get the view of "mainstream" christians on this because once again, you put forward your views without any supporting textual references. Megadoc, RedFraction, Nismotrinidappa?

On the translation issue, my christian brothers, what does the Bible say about adding or taking away from the Word of GOD?

And we haven't said anything about Paul as yet!!

Kasey, DFC, Dizzy and other hindus,
Bulls were slaughtered yesterday by Muslims as part of a ritual that commemorates the sacrifice of prophet Abraham. We hope by this act to use it as a means of nearness to GOD.

Is it true that cows worshipped in Hinduism? Or held divinely sacred?

Is killing of a cow equivalent to killing of a Brahman (high priest)?

Are hindus offended by this act?

so in other words, this god fellow you refer to, prefers living animal(s) be killed/slaughtered as a more "effective" means of worship .............rubbish

More effective than what Mamoo? Please answer the questions I asked, if you are hindu.

Why would GOD contradict Himself by telling one group of people NOT to slaughter cows and another group to specifically slaughter cattle which includes cows.

why would this God character command in the first place people to slaughter animals as a means to get closer to him. How can one kill to get closer to God?

My faith is irrelevant, as I am particularly perturbed by your two contributions quoted above. Where you are implying that any particular faith (hindu,christian....ect.) are sinners for using inanimate objects as a means to get closer to god vs a particular belief system that still condones the KILLING of thousands of animals to accomplish a "closer bond". How can the slaughter of anything lead to "nearness" God?

Maybe you need to ask GOD Himself.

It has to do with sacrificing that which you love the most. It was asked of the two sons of Adam and in that time a fire from above used to consume the sacrifice, so you would know of its acceptance.

Abraham was commanded to sacrifice that which he loved the most, his only son. He told his son and asked him what he thought about it. His son said, "O my father, do as you are are commanded..you will find me from among the patient ones."

Abraham was going to do it but he was stopped and a ram was given / slaughtered in place of his son. The People of the Book continued that ritual sacrifice.

What people love the most now is usually money / wealth and how willing are they to part with $2000 per year for this sacrifice and to share the meat in charity to poor and needy?

How much does any one of you give freely in charity annually?

[MG Man]

one shot of charity once a year?
Why not do something on an ongoing / sustainable basis?
instead of giving a man a fish, why not teach him to fish?
From my personal experience and observation, that meat is shared up among family and close friends

[Kasey]

Kasey, DFC, Dizzy and other hindus,
Bulls were slaughtered yesterday by Muslims as part of a ritual that commemorates the sacrifice of prophet Abraham. We hope by this act to use it as a means of nearness to GOD.

Is it true that cows worshipped in Hinduism? Or held divinely sacred? they are held sacred, sumting like the stone u guys kiss

Is killing of a cow equivalent to killing of a Brahman (high priest)?no, a cow is an animal, whereas a brahman is a human

Are hindus offended by this act? No, Hindus believe their way is right, and the God they believe in ,will decide what he wants to do about it.

Hindus dont believe that they can speak for god. They only say what they believe he would want, through studying the scriptures.

[Chimera]

It has to do with sacrificing that which you love the most. It was asked of the two sons of Adam and in that time a fire from above used to consume the sacrifice, so you would know of its acceptance.

Abraham was commanded to sacrifice that which he loved the most, his only son. He told his son and asked him what he thought about it. His son said, "O my father, do as you are are commanded..you will find me from among the patient ones."

sounds evil/cultish

"Sacrifice your child for me!!"

[Chimera]

kinda funny story (to me)

when i dont shave my beard does grow thick and fast, i does look like a muslim (unfortunately)

so....i eh shave in about 2 weeks....gone subway this morning and order a ham and egg for breakfast...muslim woman in her hijab after me in the line...watching me vex....start to talk to me about how i shouldn't be eating ham and it unclean bla bla bla.


i asked her if she didn't hear the latest update on the ancient Koran they recently found that muslims are now allowed to eat ham/pork and should ask her friends or people in the mosque about it.

she looked convinced.

[AdamB]

Kasey, DFC, Dizzy and other hindus,
Bulls were slaughtered yesterday by Muslims as part of a ritual that commemorates the sacrifice of prophet Abraham. We hope by this act to use it as a means of nearness to GOD.

Is it true that cows worshipped in Hinduism? Or held divinely sacred? they are held sacred, sumting like the stone u guys kiss

Is killing of a cow equivalent to killing of a Brahman (high priest)?no, a cow is an animal, whereas a brahman is a human

Are hindus offended by this act? No, Hindus believe their way is right, and the God they believe in ,will decide what he wants to do about it.

Hindus dont believe that they can speak for god. They only say what they believe he would want, through studying the scriptures.

Well it sounds like the ONE GOD you believe in is a different god from the ONE GOD that Muslims believe in.

So how do we reconcile this contradiction?

[mamoo_pagal]

Dspike,
You are wrong. You seem to be ignorant of the fact that GOD is the one who determines what is worship acceptable to HIM, polytheism and idolatry. Ignorance that is covered by pride so that the one who has it cannot see but his own selfish desires to be true and correct.

Two examples from your book:
1. The 2nd Commandment of Moses. The use of IMAGES in worship. Why has this been prohibited? This would include the use of idols / manifestations / cross / statue of Mary, etc.

2. The building of the Golden Calf by the Israelites when Moses went up to Mt Sinai to receive the 10 Commandments. They used the Golden Calf as a focal point, the same argument that Hindus use, as a means of nearness (getting closer) to GOD. But it was rejected. WHY? Can you tell me what was the punishment for this?

It would be interesting to get the view of "mainstream" christians on this because once again, you put forward your views without any supporting textual references. Megadoc, RedFraction, Nismotrinidappa?

On the translation issue, my christian brothers, what does the Bible say about adding or taking away from the Word of GOD?

And we haven't said anything about Paul as yet!!

Kasey, DFC, Dizzy and other hindus,
Bulls were slaughtered yesterday by Muslims as part of a ritual that commemorates the sacrifice of prophet Abraham. We hope by this act to use it as a means of nearness to GOD.

Is it true that cows worshipped in Hinduism? Or held divinely sacred?

Is killing of a cow equivalent to killing of a Brahman (high priest)?

Are hindus offended by this act?

so in other words, this god fellow you refer to, prefers living animal(s) be killed/slaughtered as a more "effective" means of worship .............rubbish

More effective than what Mamoo? Please answer the questions I asked, if you are hindu.

Why would GOD contradict Himself by telling one group of people NOT to slaughter cows and another group to specifically slaughter cattle which includes cows.

why would this God character command in the first place people to slaughter animals as a means to get closer to him. How can one kill to get closer to God?

My faith is irrelevant, as I am particularly perturbed by your two contributions quoted above. Where you are implying that any particular faith (hindu,christian....ect.) are sinners for using inanimate objects as a means to get closer to god vs a particular belief system that still condones the KILLING of thousands of animals to accomplish a "closer bond". How can the slaughter of anything lead to "nearness" God?

Maybe you need to ask GOD Himself.
according to what you posted before, in Islamic belief, you diety does not communicate with you. Other religions experience communicate with their deity. Is your question ligit if GOD (according to Islam) does not communicate with his followers ?

It has to do with sacrificing that which you love the most. I can understand sacrificing what you love the most, but in this day and age, is it an animal. In this age people love jewelry, money ect. more than anything, shouldn't it suffice? The age you refer to, the owning of animals were extremely important to survival, hence the importance of it as a sacrifice

It was asked of the two sons of Adam and in that time a fire from above used to consume the sacrifice, so you would know of its acceptance.

Abraham was commanded to sacrifice that which he loved the most, his only son. He told his son and asked him what he thought about it. His son said, "O my father, do as you are are commanded..you will find me from among the patient ones."

Abraham was going to do it but he was stopped and a ram was given / slaughtered in place of his son.
Who stopped him? and how does he giving his son and using an animal instead equates to you slaughtering an animal? Isn't it an unnecessary ritual?
The People of the Book continued that ritual sacrifice.
Are you quoting the same book you insist is corrupted?

What people love the most now is usually money / wealth and how willing are they to part with $2000 per year for this sacrifice and to share the meat in charity to poor and needy?

Aren't there many more effective means of giving charity? as Mg Said........smh

How much does any one of you give freely in charity annually?

the amount one gives in charity is important?

[marlener]

I think we need to understand what was God purpose in making the request of Abraham,Now I am speaking from a Christian view point and would use the bible as reference where necessary.God tested Abraham obedience and he was,There is also a difference between worship and true worship that God requires. Matthew 15:8,9, 1Samuel 15:22 and Matthew7:21-23 tend to shed some light on the issue in question. If we understand what was the purpose of the blood sacrifice then we would understand why there is no longer any need for it.
True story, recently I had a two trees to cut down,hired a guy to cut one and he decided to cut the other and wanted me to pay him,called me at work while he was on the tree cutting it.Claimed that I getting my tree cut ah should be glad.Do you think I should pay him?

[MG Man]

can't pay for work you didn't approve
Why did god need to test abraham? God, being god and all, would have known the outcome anyway, so why put him and his son through all that trauma to prove a point? Seems pretty masochistic to me...........same with Job...........that little cruel bet was pointless....god would have known the outcome already.....why torment poor job just to prove a point?

[Sky]

Kasey, DFC, Dizzy and other hindus,
Bulls were slaughtered yesterday by Muslims as part of a ritual that commemorates the sacrifice of prophet Abraham. We hope by this act to use it as a means of nearness to GOD.

Is it true that cows worshipped in Hinduism? Or held divinely sacred? they are held sacred, sumting like the stone u guys kiss

Is killing of a cow equivalent to killing of a Brahman (high priest)?no, a cow is an animal, whereas a brahman is a human

Are hindus offended by this act? No, Hindus believe their way is right, and the God they believe in ,will decide what he wants to do about it.

Hindus dont believe that they can speak for god. They only say what they believe he would want, through studying the scriptures.

Well it sounds like the ONE GOD you believe in is a different god from the ONE GOD that Muslims believe in.

So how do we reconcile this contradiction?

Your god condones murder.
I'ma go ahead and go with his god

[Sky]

can't pay for work you didn't approve
Why did god need to test abraham? God, being god and all, would have known the outcome anyway, so why put him and his son through all that trauma to prove a point? Seems pretty masochistic to me...........same with Job...........that little cruel bet was pointless....god would have known the outcome already.....why torment poor job just to prove a point?

Note that in the bible, God never claimed to be that awesome. Men did.
And then modern christians are claiming he's awesome ^2

[marlener]

Well he did cut part of the tree,bursting down my telephone wire,cable line and injusring himself in the process,I did pay for him medication and had to be in darkness until t&tec eventually came at 1:28am the next morning. That was the reason I asked him to cut the other tree,I had already applied to t&tec for them to cut the one that was over the live line.Question what about worship not approved any blessing to be gained there?
the purpose wasn`t for God`s benefit but Abraham and everyone who would come after.if one is not tested they can always say that they would have done this and done that.God does claim how awesome he is,need to read a bit more or I can provide reference if you wish.
By the way the guy is still claiming that he should be paid for the work that was done.