The comprehensive 4age thread

[josh.dookie]

[ruffrider27]

did a search on this how to changed the alt belt in the blacktop 2ners step by step

[Hook]

The alt belt is the more inner of the two accessory belts so you'll need to take off the PS/AC belt first.

This method doesn't concern loosening the alternator bracket or using a prise bar to push anything (and thus it doesn't risk your cracking and damaging the alternator housing or TPS if the bar slips).

You'll need a ratchet (3/8" is fine, bigger's not necessary), 14 socket (short reach) a 6" extension and a 12" extension. That's all.

Turn your wheels to the right (or take it off completely if that suits you, but my hydraulic jack needs Jesus so I don't bother to take off the wheel) and pull back the splash guard on the driver's side apron, then use the ratchet with a 14 socket and loosen the centre nut on the PS belt tensioner pulley (no need to take it all the way out, but it won't hurt if you do). Then use the same racket and socket combination to loosen the tensioner bolt right there. The tensioner pulley will move downward and allow you to remove the belt.

Then in a similar manner with the same tools, loosen the centre nut on the alternator belt tensioner pulley.

However, you can't reach the tentioner bolt from below there. You'll need to put the 14 socket on at least 16" of extension to get to it (I use a 12" and a 6" extension for my ratchet). Shine a light and feed the extension in slowly from the top of the engine, next to the oil dipstick. Once you crack it with the rachet, you can turn by hand and loosen the tension.

Cool, so now with the tensioners off, u can replace the belts with ease and the procedure is the reverse to put it back up. Put on belts, tension pulleys, tighten centre nuts, mount splash guard.

There's a device called a tensiometer for checking belt tension, but few ppl (if any) have one. A fair way to check your belt tension is to depress the belt at the midpoint of the longest distance between two pulleys and tighten till the deflection of the belt is about half an inch or so from rest.

Hope this is helpful.

[ruffrider27]

Thk man very helpful

[ruffrider27]

the belts are correct
5pk 840 alt
7 5pk 1060 air con,ps
bought it at toyota
$713 for the two belts original toyota

[psycostud666]

I have a 4age 20v ST and i use both premium and super fuel, i usually mix half/half. I get good mileage from this.. However, when i can afford i use only premium, i always run the tank low b4 i fill up with premium only.

My problem is that even if i fill premium only the car runs the same as if i use mixed fuel. the best performance i get is when i use treatments.

Wynns give great fuel mileage on fill ups and the Prestone Gold bottle treatment give a good boost rather than good mileage.

I want to know whats the best way to get good mileage as well as good boost from fuel and treatment mixtures. Also, what do's and dont's i should adhere to with this engine.

[josh.dookie]

Is level super in my ST with a lil fuel treatment every now an again? Wat performance u talking bout, your car is daily driver right?

[haydn28]

I have a 4age 20v ST and i use both premium and super fuel, i usually mix half/half. I get good mileage from this.. However, when i can afford i use only premium, i always run the tank low b4 i fill up with premium only.

My problem is that even if i fill premium only the car runs the same as if i use mixed fuel. the best performance i get is when i use treatments.

Wynns give great fuel mileage on fill ups and the Prestone Gold bottle treatment give a good boost rather than good mileage.

I want to know whats the best way to get good mileage as well as good boost from fuel and treatment mixtures. Also, what do's and dont's i should adhere to with this engine.

fuel additives/octane boosters from my experience(looking at a wide band) tend to lean out the fuel mixture and raise octane so u should feel the car pulling stronger in an N/A.

use the super / premium mix, if u want , try advancing timing in 2 degree increments until u hear slight ping then back off 2-3 degrees , that should be roughly where engine likes the timing for that fuel.

the super is heavier than premium and tends to last longer , when its mixed with premium , u get the octane up .

[haydn28]

with out a dyno to check ,most of the times its a mind thing telling u that ur pulling harder eh,

use the super / premium mix , and time the engine correctly , it will pull hard

[psycostud666]

Yes the car is driven daily, when i say performance i mean good on fuel and no prob leavin the pack behind. I hate seeing other people tail pipes, i rather the smell my exhaust than vice versa.

The engine is 100% stock.. wanna keep it that way...

I was a bit worried that the super fuel may cause probs on the long run, so i use the Prestone Synthetic Cleaner with 0 to 60 Boost, the engine sounds and runs great with that, but its sometime heavy on the pocket.

Running the car every day with two fill ups per week, i use the treatment every four fill up, that twice per month.

One question to add, i notice the AC deminishes power alot, is it suppose to be like that? or shuold i have that checked?

[haydn28]

well the ac is extra load on the engine
it should rob the engine of power

on my 4efte i took out the ac, power steering , and am only running 1 belt for the alternator to diminish losses

[psycostud666]

haydn28, Man, with this heat these days, the AC is a must. I need my power steering too, my tyres are 235/45, it would be hell with manual steering. How d hell you pulling that steering in that ride?

Are the new Electronic Steering assist from toyota able to convert into the AE 101 and my application?

[josh.dookie]

Well I fully agree with Hayden's statement, it's really mind over matter.. And the car really feels like if it pulls harder as a result of the octane rating increasing, but doh get d man wrong, u ent gonna get any hp improvement with dat.. And yeah wit AC on in my 20v it does cut alotta power!

[josh.dookie]

on my 4efte i took out the ac, power steering , and am only running 1 belt for the alternator to diminish losses

hardcore performance goin on in d dx wagon!
but sun reallll hot these days boy lol!

[psycostud666]

josh.dookie, Well, i do know for sure that with the treatment i climb the gears faster and i get the pop throught the exhaust alot. The idea of fondling with the distributor sounds good, this engine was never touched since i bought the car and the previous owner never touched it, just for the oil change i gave it, plugs, plug wires and everything else remained just as i bought the car.

One thing just came to my mind, it has the original air filter with the ducting round the battery. I wonder if i should swap that out for something else, any recommendations?

[psycostud666]

Maybe the car needs to breathe more for all the fuel it is getting.

[Hook]

If your ride is the one in your avatar, I've seen you around. Whip looks good meng! Cheers!

By nature the 20V engines run a tad rich anyway so trying to get good economy out of it is kinda moot. Typically from a full tank to the last quarter I get ~300km and that's fine with me cuz I hit speed cut daily.

Ideally a more efficient engine reaps more power but u ain't gonna get that just so. While mixing the gas is cool on the pocket, it really isn't doing much in terms of reaping the full benefit of the engines since they were designed to run on 100RON fuel and you're giving it a supposed 95RON even after mixing. Any less than the recommended octane and the slightest knock will cause the ECU to back off timing a tad and dump extra fuel to save ur engine from the risk of detonation.

I agree with Haydn28's first post w.r.t. tweaking the distributor. Get a good timing gun and set it for the fuel you're using since u won't get fuel tweaking without other mods (AFC, FPR etc.). All other things being stock, timing is the key to getting something decent out of these engines. Just be sure to write down the start base timing before you start adjusting (will check and verify which pins in the diagnostic port u need to bridge to check base timing).
There's also a tweak you can do with opening the MAF Sensor and "clicking" it, but the gains are debatable. I wouldn't mess with it. If you do decide to try it, again, mark your start point so u can return to stock setting later if u wish.

In terms of fuel additives/octane boosters, the Prestone's OKAY, but I've found the butt dyno agrees with the Turbo108 in the yellow bottle to a tank of premium.
The "pop" you hear is unburnt fuel igniting in the exhaust stream. While it sounds cool and spitting blue flame looks awesome , it's testament that you're overfueling. Honestly, I don't think you'll get rid of it completely. Most times you only pop between gears or when you hold a gear and back off.

In terms of the intake, you can invest in a cone filter and adapter, but then you'll be pulling all this hot air from the engine bay.
Here's a little trick.
Get a drop-in filter.
The conduit that allows air to be pulled from behind the headlight is actually a tad restrictive, but it's a 2-pc unit and this can be removed and sealed off.
There's a section of the conduit that runs to a black plastic box behind the bumper just in front of the wheel well (it's debatable whether this is a resonator, or a water trap or an induction box). This box can be removed and replaced with a reasonably sized section of tubing to allow the intake to pull air from behind the bumper. Essentially a CAI that the butt dyno agrees with. I've seen pics online of drivers who run a flex hose from there to a port in the bumper as a Ram/CAI hybrid, but I not cutting anything.

Really, I just want the TIME to get to a dyno and dig up in all these things so I can REALLY say what gives the best results and in what combinations. But so far it's just the seat of my pants telling me if i'm doing something right. Could be mind over matter, but say what.

Point is, doh fraid to dig up. The gains may be barely noticeable if at all, but you won't know if u try. Just do your research first, don't get crazy and you won't break anything.

[psycostud666]

Hook, I get what yur saying... Not gonna do anything just like that, still listening to lots of ideas first. Thanks for the help.

[pablo_tt]

Well I use premium right through and to me I get about 320+ depending on the driving (these days I'm just cruising) with a/c on about 97% of the time. Have not used any fuel additive yet but I find it pulls very strong. Has anyone ever tried all premium and a fuel additive?

[Hook]

^^^I just said that in my post dude

[haydn28]

yea padna , hook is right , when the knock sensor picks up trace knock around 10-40 %
it retards the ignition and dumps more fuel , i always see it when data logging on an e manage ultimate.

basically , the cold air intake will help , cause the ecu will see a cooler charge temp and fuel slightly more while using a higher timing. and u will see less trace knock as well

the best u can do is take out the injectors , clean them , and use a standard fuel mixture like 50% super 50% premium , adhere to it and tune the distributer timing for that fuel. try to stay away from most of these so called octane boosters.

the only one that works in my opinion is the NOS brand, about $100 for this, u need to mix it real good with the gasoline, its supposed to treat 16 gallons, to a 6 octane number boost, so 1/4 bottle with every fill up is enough.

[smokey1275]

fuel additives/octane boosters from my experience(looking at a wide band) tend to lean out the fuel mixture and raise octane so u should feel the car pulling stronger in an N/A.

use the super / premium mix, if u want , try advancing timing in 2 degree increments until u hear slight ping then back off 2-3 degrees , that should be roughly where engine likes the timing for that fuel.

the super is heavier than premium and tends to last longer , when its mixed with premium , u get the octane up .[/quote]


Chemically speaking , if you want to change the octane rating of a fuel in the truest sense you have to do a proper calculation to measure how much of anti knock agent(used to be mtbe , methyl tetra buthyl ethyl lead) to actively raise a given volume of gasoline from one octane rating to another. No amount of seat of your pants guesses can tell you that a bottle of prestone or wynns will have changed 92 ron to 95 or even 92.1 ron.

Octane is not a measure of specific gravity and condensate weights , hence a lower grade fuel is not a heavier fuel it just has less anti knock points (less octane , a eight chain hydrocarbon that has been polymerized ) fuel is not even condensation formed , it is a distillate of heavy petroleum that is separated in a fractionating column.

Adding timing can only do so much to make power , but it all starts with good gasoline .Remember the computer does not sense octane , what happens is the design of the engine and the compression ratio determines which octane should be used to prevent detontation and save the engine. Fuel / Ignition tables are calculations based up signals received from all sensors thus engineers took the time and effort on their engine labs to program a motor 's ecu for optimum running based on loads , flow and concentration (02 sensor)

[Hook]

^^^ You're right in the sense that the claims of these octane treatments are really taken on faith.
IME however, audible knock is actually reduced with the use of certain brands, even the infusion of high octane race gas in the mix, and the power increase is noticeable. The result is right, but the seat-of-the-pants theory is ultimately flawed if one were to do a qualitative analysis.

You're also correct on the point of "heavier" fuel etc. The illusion that the lower octane super lasts longer has to do with the cause and effect of the power loss. You tend to drive much more conservatively once you don't have the juice at your command. However, take that same engine that was meant to run on 95RON and give it 95RON and it's a whole different ball game. You'll be chasing anything with a chrome tip.
It's totally unscientific, but it's true, and it almost ties together the point of economy and power differences between the two fuels.

This leads to an argument on whether there truly is a trade-off between power and economy and it's effect on your gas budget. IMO, while the extra fuel and timing makes for a crisp throttle response and a more fun drive, u don't need to throw obscene amounts of fuel at it to make power. Ultimately it's about increasing the effiency of the machine.

There are formulae relating to displacement, energy conversions, effiency, power losses etc. for each engine, but for a 1.6L to be putting out >165hp at the fly in stock trim on the stock fuel/ign maps, by removing trace knock, and/or audible knock by way of octane treatments/race gas, one runs leaner and cleaner (the wideband/data-logging guys will testify to this), there's merit to the argument that both power AND economy CAN go hand-in-hand.

Based on THIS assumption, what are some of the ways we can achieve this?

[josh.dookie]

Yup good stuff goin on in here man, hook excellent essay writing skills lol, but good info bro, and

smokey1275

, good stuff by breaking down gas cycle to the engine for psycostudd666...
BTW the popping can also be caused by a faulty AFM or if u have excessive popping (like me) everytime I take my foot of the accelerator and accelerate once more is potow powww, not just a pop, also between gears and low revv driving as well. If yours sounding like gunshots (like mine) u need to get an unmolested AFM.. Which reminds me that I will need to get one soon

[Hook]

thanks meng

My MAF is "clicked" but it's crisp and doesn't cause the pop except when I'm on super and I hold a gear at high revs while backing off and pressing again (mostly only when feathering around 7000rpm in 2nd cuz it's A/T, but that don't happen too often lol). I must've done SOMETHING right
Now, I'm on 17*BTDC running Premium with the Turbo 108 octane treatment so MAYBE that has something to do with it...less trace/audible knock?

It's been said that a 12.5:1 AFR is the "sweetspot" for power gains in an N/A engine, but I haven't seen any real proof from the AFC equipped ST guys.

Mine has no such thing, just minor tweaks on the stock settings, and like I said before, I'd love to get the time to do a few dyno pulls with a wideband and look at my burn/power, but that ain't happening too soon .

Maybe somebody with a bone stock ST could list the tweaks and do some pulls and have the corresponding power/economy data per tweak?
Gun talk aside (cuz the FTE guys gonna have a field day with this one) can y'all organize to do this at the next dyno day, whenever that is?

Who's taking one for the team? *puts hands in pockets*

[eliteauto]

this thread gives me tabanca makes no sense contributing technical info since Hook, and I share many of the same experiences, so I'd just be repitative

[josh.dookie]

lol @ taking one for the team, and I here you boy hook with the time, hmm AT BT20v, your reminding me of running manu mode on bro levin wen it twas auto jed lol, good times, I rem d levin auto embarassin a manu 2.2 prelude lol, on manu mode, accomopanied by a sweet pop lol.!

Now, I'm on 17*BTDC running Premium with the Turbo 108 octane treatment so MAYBE that has something to do with it...less trace/audible knock?

You mite be havin a lil sumtin goin on there u know lol, will try the turbo 108 but I have a lotta work to do on my car rite now, between FT work an PT school = no time , have an advanced denso kit for the longest while to rebuild my engine, I hada change my AFM an (still dem vics does get on d highway ), it dangerous rite now wit dat faluty AFM, a man bumper get black out, and stop to ask if is a flame thrower I have lol.
After doin d minor work maybe a Emanage an a lil tune, but the time jed..

eliteauto

my bro wanna know wen d nex rolla will be up for sale as he miss d first one lol..
Wen I get my car workin properly, I wouldnt mind dynoing .
Who being a hero an taking one for d team lol!

[psycostud666]

I get the picture guys, if i want power and run hard i gotta pay the price for the gas..
I ran the car yesterday and tried not to let the RPM go over 3000, shifting at that spot, the car ran good and it didn't even use much fuel.

I top up often to see how its burning and running it that way gives great mileage.. on the other hand, ran it a couple of times hitting about 6000 to 7000 RPM on the first 3 gears and it felt sweet, but as i said before, it cost me alot more on the top up.

So the big picture is that i love the way the car runs and i am getting ideas but i aint gonna do any big mods to it for now. i dont mind the gas guzzle every now and then cuz i get the little rush i need

Would love to know how the car does on a dyno..

[psycostud666]

BTW whats that noise i hear from the engine that sounds like the tapits making noise?

[A172]

I get the picture guys, if i want power and run hard i gotta pay the price for the gas..
I ran the car yesterday and tried not to let the RPM go over 3000, shifting at that spot, the car ran good and it didn't even use much fuel.

I top up often to see how its burning and running it that way gives great mileage.. on the other hand, ran it a couple of times hitting about 6000 to 7000 RPM on the first 3 gears and it felt sweet, but as i said before, it cost me alot more on the top up.

So the big picture is that i love the way the car runs and i am getting ideas but i aint gonna do any big mods to it for now. i dont mind the gas guzzle every now and then cuz i get the little rush i need

Would love to know how the car does on a dyno..

lewwe do sumtin nah