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dubcity wrote:From reading this tread there is an issue that no one seems to be commenting on,"SANDBAGGING".
Clearly it shows that the competitor nismo_demon is frustrated by other competitor(s) doing this,lashed out at AutoSport and he didn't take the time to understand the way the timing system works.Who wouldn't be after a full year of racing seeing this happening event after event waiting for things to be tweaked or competitor(s) to be bumped in class.New year and the same issue in the same class!Several competitors have moved up in class with vehicles that are classed for lower just so they won't encounter this.Sounds fair?Here is one eg.vtmiller11 wrote:I absolutely ppreciate a competitor's right to seek clarification on competition issues and would like some clarification myself. It's no secret that quite a few competitors in 2B have complained about 'sandbaggers' (me too, at one point, but I've since moved on). What I find absolutely hilarious now though, is the fact that the breakout time was moved from 56 to 55 seconds and competitors still breaking out . Mr. Autosport please change the breakout time to 54 next event just to see if our 'B' drivers could continue to breakout and run 53s like the 'A' drivers.
I hope all this can be settled and a standard be set for the future,good luck AutoSport.
JJustCool wrote:14. So what has actually transpired from my observation is that Autosport, though they made changes to deal with "SANDBAGGING" and promote fair racing, has in actually played themselves right back into the hands of the "SANDBAGGERS" by being unable to notice this. Therefore they are wreaking havoc in the B class.
15. Furthermore I would like to recommend, that any B class car that is running times less than 2sec slower than last years break out times can be easily Red Flagged as a "SANDBAGGER" and should be bumped up to the A immediately.
Computerman wrote:Quite rightly so! It's bracket racing, not "PINKS All Out"!pete wrote:Ideally, if you want to win the bracket, the car should be FASTER than the bracket time.
Computerman wrote:JJustCool wrote:14. So what has actually transpired from my observation is that Autosport, though they made changes to deal with "SANDBAGGING" and promote fair racing, has in actually played themselves right back into the hands of the "SANDBAGGERS" by being unable to notice this. Therefore they are wreaking havoc in the B class.
15. Furthermore I would like to recommend, that any B class car that is running times less than 2sec slower than last years break out times can be easily Red Flagged as a "SANDBAGGER" and should be bumped up to the A immediately.
Sandbaggers face much criticism, as many argue that it is essentially cheating. I disagree! Sandbagging is simply a technique (like "heel and toe" and "left foot braking" etc.). The function of sandbagging is to guarantee a win by outperforming a slower opponent. Sandbaggers run the risk of breaking out, thus being disqualified. Sandbagging (in one form or another) exists not only in motorsport but in many different types of games and sports. It is obviously not a technique usually employed by beginners, as sandbaggers must be experienced in controlling this technique.
So long as bracket racing exists the technique of sandbagging will also exist. As it should!Computerman wrote:Quite rightly so! It's bracket racing, not "PINKS All Out"!pete wrote:Ideally, if you want to win the bracket, the car should be FASTER than the bracket time.
Sandbaggers Anonymous
Which is why my personal preference was to favor 'bracket by choice'. However, as stated previously, the majority decided otherwise! Which is why sandbagging is a non-issue as far as I am concerned! But yet still there are those who would continue to claim that sandbagging in the B classes is a 'serious concern'!ng357 wrote:If you guys ok with sandbagging well then the competition should be classed by times not engine so that everyone can have the option to do it. then we will really test skill evenly.
We can agree to disagree with regards to sandbagging. I respect your opinion. However, you are comparing 'apples and oranges'! Did you check the link in my previous post?JJustCool wrote:I am sorry, but I must disagree with you.
"SANDBAGGING" in this case "IS CHEATING"!!!!
Obviously a Cheater doesn't think that he is Cheating ask Lance Armstrong
Computerman wrote:Which is why my personal preference was to favor 'bracket by choice'. However, as stated previously, the majority decided otherwise! Which is why sandbagging is a non-issue as far as I am concerned! But yet still there are those who would continue to claim that sandbagging in the B classes is a 'serious concern'!ng357 wrote:If you guys ok with sandbagging well then the competition should be classed by times not engine so that everyone can have the option to do it. then we will really test skill evenly.
At any rate, sandbagging was not the concern that was highlighted earlier. It was the perception of the organizers not operating in a 'fair and open' manner with specific regard to the timing system and the change in B class times. These are concerns that should be addressed directly with the organizers and not 'tossed' about on public forums.
Computerman wrote:We can agree to disagree with regards to sandbagging. I respect your opinion. However, you are comparing 'apples and oranges'! Did you check the link in my previous post?JJustCool wrote:I am sorry, but I must disagree with you.
"SANDBAGGING" in this case "IS CHEATING"!!!!
Obviously a Cheater doesn't think that he is Cheating ask Lance Armstrong
JJustCool wrote:Computerman wrote:We can agree to disagree with regards to sandbagging. I respect your opinion. However, you are comparing 'apples and oranges'! Did you check the link in my previous post?JJustCool wrote:I am sorry, but I must disagree with you.
"SANDBAGGING" in this case "IS CHEATING"!!!!
Obviously a Cheater doesn't think that he is Cheating ask Lance Armstrong
Nuff respect to you also.
There is no offense on my end. I am just expressing my opinion but i do see your point also.
crazybalhead wrote:Ohgooooooooaaarrrr! Allyuh just geeedem and relax nah!
So you are suggesting 8 'open' classes with no breakout (i.e. no bracket classes). How would we then clasify the cars to be in each bracket? For example, I might have two 1.6 NA Mazda vehicles, that externally look almost exactly alike. Are they in the same class? Oh, btw, one is 200bhp and the other is 98bhp.MICROTECH 7 wrote:I totally agree with southside crew, create 8 classes so no more break out times and may the best man win.
moti wrote:what matters is how cars are classed
moti wrote:moti wrote:what matters is how cars are classed
Computerman wrote:moti wrote:moti wrote:what matters is how cars are classed
Agreed. Do you think that this is the underlying issue then?
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