Recomendations for 4x4 tyres

[droppa]

the ALL COUNTRY is a pretty decent tire for the price, kinda TERRA TRAC look alike, they work well on both we and dry, also there is the Serengeti, which is a decent tire too......

padna it go be pretty emberassing having a 4wd with HTs and yuh get stick in ah lil grass with some muds, recently i had to pull out ah navara, TCR, man now get it, and he stick in ah lil grass, then again the nav come with ah crap tire too eh.....

or u can
put up ah lil money and visit masterserv and buy yuhself the michelin atx.....

[lighthammer]

^^ hey hey, I was stuck in a rut eh, in wet clay soil eh, and UPHILL TOO eh.....




Anyway, with H/T's you'll only be limited to highway runs, even on wet grass you'll be slipping and sliding.

[lighthammer]

oh yeah, and for the price of the Goodyear HT's, you can more than afford a set of Toyo's or Kumho's.....

so consider it. The main advantage of the HT's over AT's is less noise....

[3stagevtec]

oh yeah, and for the price of the Goodyear HT's, you can more than afford a set of Toyo's or Kumho's.....

so consider it. The main advantage of the HT's over AT's is less noise....

and that's not really much of an advantage to be honest! I have driven some cars with factory spec road tyres that made alot more noise that AT rated tyres..

The noise factor these days will have more to do with the build quality of the vehicle, i.e. the amount of sound deadening materials used and the softness of the suspension parts than the type of tyre being used..

Once you own a pickup, ATs are a must. They perform quite well in both the wet and dry and you won't end up looking like this in a lil grass..

[lighthammer]

IMO, All terrain tyres are better value for money than highway tyres. You get equivalent performance and the additional ability to go off road.

In fact, the more aggressive tread with the larger spaces between the tread blocks in an All Terrain tyre are superior in channeling water away on a wet road than the small spaces on an HT.

Hence you get less hydroplaning and slipping when driving in the rain with All terrains than Highways.


I'd recommend Highways only for crossover SUV's (like the CRV and rav 4), minivans and cars - all vehicles that are meant to stay on-road and never venture off road.

[MrCuddles]

the ALL COUNTRY is a pretty decent tire for the price, kinda TERRA TRAC look alike, they work well on both we and dry

actually, All Country and Terra Trac is made by the same company(Merit) who also produce Hercules tyres

so basically they r the exact same tyre, jus marketed under different names

av got a set on d Frontier an i can tell u dey r excellent AT tyres

anyone know d cost of them now though??

[venum]

IMO, All terrain tyres are better value for money than highway tyres. You get equivalent performance and the additional ability to go off road.

Yes they give plenty better value for $ than HT, but NOT equivalent performance

Good quality HT tyres will always outperform equivalently good AT tyres on the road.

HT will fail miserably everywhere else than the paved road - that is where the AT will perform better than the HT, where the AT is king, except for the mud

AT cannot compete with HT on the paved road - this is the domain of the HT tyre, where it is king

In fact, the more aggressive tread with the larger spaces between the tread blocks in an All Terrain tyre are superior in channeling water away on a wet road than the small spaces on an HT.

Actually - No

While the large spaces between the aggressive thread blocks/lugs will channel away more water, it isn't superior to the "smaller" spaces on the HT tyres

Hydro-planing is caused when a layer of water gets trapped between the contact surface of the tyre and the road surface, thus preventing the friction surface of the tyre from coming into the friction surface of the road to generate traction.

The vehicle thus sits on a thin layer of water (since water cannot be compressed) and has no/reduced traction (since rubber is not in contact with road), which then allows it to easily slide around and be subject to its own momentum and not respond to the controls of the steering and suspension

This is why smooth/bald tyres are easy victims to hydro-planing

The channels in a tyre are specifically put there to give the water a channel/vent to exit from under the tyre and prevent the build up of the layer that would cause hydro-planing, to allow the tyre friction surface to come into contact with the road friction surface

This is also why racing slicks are sooo good in the dry (maximum tyre friction surface is in contact with the road + sofft rubber compound) but terrible in the wet (no channels to remove water)

The aggressive thread blocks on AT tyres are usually larger is surface area than those on HT tyres creating a larger surface area for road contact which means more rubber:road ratio which means more surface area for water to get between and cause hydro-planing,

Now, the big space between the thread blocks will remove a lot of water quickly

But it's the residual water that causes the hydro-planing

This is where sipes come into play - sipes are the finer grooves on the tyre thread

Sipes do not channel water away, they provide a cavity for the water to be trapped

The residual water (that causes hydroplaning) gets drawn into the sipes, which prevent it from accumulating into the layer that causes the hydro-planing

The more sipes the better

Sipes work together with channels - the channels remove the larger volume of water and the sipes deal with the residual water

And if you observe most HT tyres, you will notice a lot of sipes, more than AT tyres

Sipes together with the rubber compound are what gives/determines the wet handling capability of a tyre, among some other things

MT tyres have almost NO sipes, but big channels - more channels than AT or HT, but do they [MT] perform better in the wet - NO they do not

if you look at the Toyo Open Country A/T, you will notice what Toyo did that was just brilliant - they put a lot of sipes on the larger thread blocks, thus giving them a lot better wet handling, almost like a HT, but still not as many sipes

One of the reasons that the roadstone roadian HT were soooo crappy in the wet after half life was because the sipes did not go straight down to the casing, but only half way down, so after half the thread was worn out there were almost NO sipes

This I realized when I changed them and compared the ones with 25% life to some new ones - a noticeable difference in the amount of sipes

The other cheap AT tyres on the market like the Terra Trac/All Country and sumitomo serengetti have some large thread blocks and little /no fine sipes, so they essentially depending on rubber compound only in the wet

Which is why I never bought them

And lastly, the very thing that gives HT tyres their advantage in the wet is what makes them sooo terrible in the mud - the sipes get filled up quickly with mud and do not allow for self cleaning like the larger grooves of the AT abd MT

[bleedingfreak]

I am disappointed that the only advice given seem to be to get All Terrain tyres or Mud Terrain tyres...

Granted this thread is about "Recommendations for 4 x 4 tyres", this thread has become a "tyre thread" now, I think...

But then again, if my views are not relevant, I will retract my statements





As you were...

[3stagevtec]

Good info on the sipes Venum, never really looked at that.. I always thought those sipes were there mainly for snow use..

[venum]

they are for liquids

driving in snow requires sipes as there is a lot of water as well, especially when the tyres mash the snow

if you ever get a chance to observe snow tyres (either abroad or on a local nissan taxi rollin on FU snow tyres) you will notice a LOT of sipes and a very soft compound with low treadwear

[lighthammer]

Good info on the sipes Venum, never really looked at that.. I always thought those sipes were there mainly for snow use..

Me too...

[lighthammer]

Let's look at all the all-terrain tyres and a couple highway tyres side-by-side.


Kumho Roadventure KL71 A/T



Dunlop Grantrek AT20 highway tyres



Bridgestone Duelers All terrain



Pirelli Scorpion ATR All terrain



Toyo Open Country All Terrain



BF Goodrich All Terrain



General Grabber AT2 All-terrain



Hercules Terra Trac



Hercules All Trac All terrain



Hankook Dynapro All Terrain



Yokohama Geolandar All Terrain



Nexen Roadian AT All Terrain





And here's a chart of tyre comparisons. Not all of the tyres shown above are in the chart, but the rating seems pretty solid.

[bleedingfreak]

Again boss... your COMPARISONS... have SNOW and ICE columns? Irrelevant for our use... There is no off road use chart?

And yeah, I have that Kumho listed tops... haha

[V2NR 3.0]

Lemme jump in here...

I recently changed to these tyres on my bt50. Went bigger all round and noticed a considerable difference.

Pro:
1. Vehicle became more stable on the road.
2. Very good traction with a wider foot print.
3. Handling and cornering much improved.

Con:
1. Considerable reduction in fuel economy
2. Braking distance increased
3. Slow acceleration.

Im thinking the tyres are bigger - heavier, wider - is this one of the side effects of upgraded tyres ?

Im running the Toyo Open country - R16/265/70




Badawww...lemme here the diesel gurus...

[Team Loco]

my michelins are just about done. 75,000kms after install in 2008, they have about 500kms life again, although they should have been changed a while agfo, due to dry rotting.

i love toyo open country, but they dont last long at all. i will not buy michelin again. choosing a tyre can be so tough!!

[3stagevtec]

Lemme jump in here...

I recently changed to these tyres on my bt50. Went bigger all round and noticed a considerable difference.

Pro:
1. Vehicle became more stable on the road.
2. Very good traction with a wider foot print.
3. Handling and cornering much improved.

Con:
1. Considerable reduction in fuel economy
2. Braking distance increased
3. Slow acceleration.

Im thinking the tyres are bigger - heavier, wider - is this one of the side effects of upgraded tyres ?

Im running the Toyo Open country - R16/265/70




Badawww...lemme here the diesel gurus...

Taller tyres basically increase your overall gearing. Yes, weight does count abit, but the gearing change is what you really notice everytime you hit the gas.. or is it hit the diesel.. that doesn't sound right..

Adding taller tyres is like changing the R&P gearing in your differentials. Most of the off road suzuki guys know this, they swap around diffs to get the highest ratio possible. That is why those small underpowered Samurai's / Jimny's etc can run 32" and 33" tyres without a problem..

Another benefit is of taller tyres is a faster cruising speed on the highway..

[V2NR 3.0]

So theory right then ? - bigger...more diesel...etc ?

[3stagevtec]

So theory right then ? - bigger...more diesel...etc ?

heavier = guaranteed more diesel
taller = depends on several factors

If you do alot of highway runs, the taller gearing achieved by taller tyres would keep the revs down which should translate to slightly better fuel economy.

For city driving, the reduced torque at the wheels / slower off the line acceleration will cause you to use more fuel to get the acceleration you want..

Pro:
1. Vehicle became more stable on the road.
2. Very good traction with a wider foot print.
3. Handling and cornering much improved.
4. Increased ground clearance for off roading.
5. More comfortable ride in the rough due to increased sidewall height.

Con:
1. Considerable reduction in fuel economy
2. Braking distance increased
3. Slow acceleration.

[V2NR 3.0]

^ true on the added "pros"

[lighthammer]

V2nr - where yuh buy dem tyres bai??

I think the decreased fuel economy might be more related to that team-loco creationg you tacked onto ur truck, the one that weighs a billion pounds .

[venum]

larger tyres, usually broader tyres will reduce fuel economy as u get more traction due to the larger surface area in contact with the road

didn't know about the advantages to the taller tyres - learnt something new

[venum]

so i gonna start a teri tire fund

to get her some good rubber in a few months when the michelin latitude cross tours are ready for changeout

she currently has 275/70/16

gonna go back to the 265/70/16

hopefully on some different rims

[lighthammer]

^^^This...

I shall join you. Hopefully we'll be able to compare rims & tyres around the same time later on this year.

[vharripersad]

1) the guy who said he is running the Toyo Open country - R16/265/70 with the pictures? whats the cost?
2) Guys too much technical details for me, so I currently have stock tyres 245/70/R16 i think in the ford ranger XLT. Having said this and looking at all your recommendations, please suggest to me BRAND and SIZE tyre to go with. ALSO recommend DEALER.
3) What size tyre in the R16 will work in the ranger without touching? the 255, or 265/70/R16?

[vharripersad]

Lighthammer, u attached a set of pictures of different tyres. Can you shortlist the best tyres form the batch. I wanna approach Mileage Mack to determine if they will bring down these tyres and estimate pricing. I know management in MileageMack personally, so I would like to pursue, c if they can source and provide discount depending on how many people in this forum seems interested.

[3stagevtec]

Keep me in mind for a group buy.. I have decided to buy a 'fancy' set of 16"s for daily use and keep my factory Grand Vitara steel rims for off road only.. Just need to save up the appropriate funds..

[venum]

1) the guy who said he is running the Toyo Open country - R16/265/70 with the pictures? whats the cost?
2) Guys too much technical details for me, so I currently have stock tyres 245/70/R16 i think in the ford ranger XLT. Having said this and looking at all your recommendations, please suggest to me BRAND and SIZE tyre to go with. ALSO recommend DEALER.
3) What size tyre in the R16 will work in the ranger without touching? the 255, or 265/70/R16?

many ppl in here will tell you different things and recommend different tyres

no one can make teh decision for you

it is up to you to decide which is the best tyre for you

for example, I would recommend that you go with Toyo Open Country

but if you do a lot of highway driving, then they won't last long

this is why you need to read through all teh info here to determine the BEST tyre for YOU

[civic minded]

i donno nah fellas but spending 1200 in excess for one tire might be out of my range, I still have my Hercules Terra trac on - doing about 30K plus on them and they still look new. Traction on and offroad is great, only wet i have to take it a little easy but when next i upgrade, i will go from 255 to 265 and that should correct that. There is no tire noise, and i run them hard frequently.

[lighthammer]

Lighthammer, u attached a set of pictures of different tyres. Can you shortlist the best tyres form the batch. I wanna approach Mileage Mack to determine if they will bring down these tyres and estimate pricing. I know management in MileageMack personally, so I would like to pursue, c if they can source and provide discount depending on how many people in this forum seems interested.

Of the locally available from the pictures I attached, I'd recommend:

1. Kumho Roadventure KL78 (laughlin and degannes - $995)
2. Toyo Open Country (Mileage Mack - $1150)
3. Pirelli Scorpion ATR. (Masterserv - $1135)

The most expensive is the Pirelli, the longest wearing are the Pirelli and Kumho, and the two most capable off-road is the Kumho and Toyo.

If your'e gonna spend most of your time on-road and highway, I'd recommend the Pirelli Scorpion from Masterserv. They're the longest-wearing out of all three. The second longest-wearing is the Kumho, the worst is the Toyo Open Country.

Having said that, they're still all superior to any Hercules, nexen or Roadstone tyre that you'd find locally. Plus they're more affordable than BF Goodrich and Goodyear.

[3stagevtec]

Having said that, they're still all superior to any Hercules, nexen or Roadstone tyre that you'd find locally. Plus they're more affordable than BF Goodrich and Goodyear.

Fully disagree with you there.. I using the Tera Tracs from Hercules and they are just awesome tyres! Remember that I am using the 215 width and just look at how well they perform, they got me through the sloppy Morne Diablo mud when I made the lone trip last time, they got me through Brasso Seco with relative ease.. and if you look at my vids from that run, you can clearly see them outperforming much larger 265 width ATs from other brands..

You even saw how worn out they were and yet they completely outperformed those new Dunlops you have on the Nav..

My pops is using the Roadstone's ATII on his pickup and for the price, they are working out well so far.. Dry traction is excellent, the truck corners insanely fast with minimal drama when pushed hard.. Wet traction is good but the rear will step out if you don't drive carefully when going fast, minimal understeer in the wet. Off road, well I only got to test them on dry sand so I can't say much here.. They do have some impressively large lugs though, so they should do well in mud..