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Growing vegetables/food crops with artificial light

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Re: Growing vegetables/food crops with artificial light

Postby DMan7 » July 6th, 2022, 8:41 pm

Bought one of those LED Bulbs a good few years ago on Amazon that allows you to change the colors with an infrared remote. Plenty different colors and it has dim levels as well as power off / on.

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Re: Growing vegetables/food crops with artificial light

Postby aaron17 » July 6th, 2022, 8:42 pm

I will digest all this info in a bit......thx

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Re: Growing vegetables/food crops with artificial light

Postby maj. tom » July 6th, 2022, 8:57 pm

I don't think those RGB smart bulbs have the Photosynthetic Active Radiation (PAR) for plant growing. A lot, if not all of them use mixing color LED programming of varying intensity to trick your eyes and brain into perceiving certain colors, rather than a true wavelength output from a dedicated color LED that produces enough PPE Photosynthetic Photon Efficiency (the fraction of light energy converted into chemical energy during photosynthesis in green plants and algae).


So OP aaron17, this can get really complicated, but unnecessary. A real white 20W fluorescent bulb about 2 feet length can supply enough of what a low light plant needs in about 2 square feet. There's no need to do all this calculation if you don't want to know about it. The light is just one part, plant nutrition, root support and air circulation are also very important.

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Re: Growing vegetables/food crops with artificial light

Postby timelapse » July 6th, 2022, 9:07 pm

Adnj: Have you ever seen standard socket LED bulbs at the lower range of the spectrum?

Pugboy and others: The coloured changing bulbs, what power rating in actual watts do they carry?If they are bright enough, they may work.I keep cloned plants under an LED strip light that I had for a car.The light emitted from it is too low for big plants.It is about 2.5 watts.
My 3x3 grow tent uses 16 x20 watt bulbs.I got good results with chive and scorpion pepper in there, while I had 2 cannabis clones in bloom.

Aaron, take a picture of the spot that you have if you can.You may have options that nobody would be able to consider unless they saw it, windows, direction of sun,ventilation etc.

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Re: Growing vegetables/food crops with artificial light

Postby adnj » July 7th, 2022, 12:20 am

maj. tom wrote:I don't think those RGB smart bulbs have the Photosynthetic Active Radiation (PAR) for plant growing. A lot, if not all of them use mixing color LED programming of varying intensity to trick your eyes and brain into perceiving certain colors, rather than a true wavelength output from a dedicated color LED that produces enough PPE Photosynthetic Photon Efficiency (the fraction of light energy converted into chemical energy during photosynthesis in green plants and algae).


So OP aaron17, this can get really complicated, but unnecessary. A real white 20W fluorescent bulb about 2 feet length can supply enough of what a low light plant needs in about 2 square feet. There's no need to do all this calculation if you don't want to know about it. The light is just one part, plant nutrition, root support and air circulation are also very important.


This is misleading.

Flourescent tubes that are not specifically phosphored to to add near infrared will have a bias to blue.

Any white LED will offer a superior spectral distribution to a fluorescent tubes.

RGB LED arrays are just that: three different color LEDs driven separately. Frequencies can differ a bit but you still get something close to the red and blue that growers use.

timelapse wrote:Adnj: Have you ever seen standard socket LED bulbs at the lower range of the spectrum?


Yes, I have. You can also buy medium socket LED grow lights at Modern Electric, if you need to go that route.

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Re: Growing vegetables/food crops with artificial light

Postby pugboy » July 7th, 2022, 4:18 am

the only problem is they sell stuff that don’t last

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Re: Growing vegetables/food crops with artificial light

Postby timelapse » July 7th, 2022, 7:01 am

adnj wrote:
maj. tom wrote:I don't think those RGB smart bulbs have the Photosynthetic Active Radiation (PAR) for plant growing. A lot, if not all of them use mixing color LED programming of varying intensity to trick your eyes and brain into perceiving certain colors, rather than a true wavelength output from a dedicated color LED that produces enough PPE Photosynthetic Photon Efficiency (the fraction of light energy converted into chemical energy during photosynthesis in green plants and algae).


So OP aaron17, this can get really complicated, but unnecessary. A real white 20W fluorescent bulb about 2 feet length can supply enough of what a low light plant needs in about 2 square feet. There's no need to do all this calculation if you don't want to know about it. The light is just one part, plant nutrition, root support and air circulation are also very important.


This is misleading.

Flourescent tubes that are not specifically phosphored to to add near infrared will have a bias to blue.

Any white LED will offer a superior spectral distribution to a fluorescent tubes.

RGB LED arrays are just that: three different color LEDs driven separately. Frequencies can differ a bit but you still get something close to the red and blue that growers use.

timelapse wrote:Adnj: Have you ever seen standard socket LED bulbs at the lower range of the spectrum?


Yes, I have. You can also buy medium socket LED grow lights at Modern Electric, if you need to go that route.

Image
Will check modern for some warmer bulbs when my current crop gets harvested,and try a mixed range, providing I get the required wattage.I supplemented my regular setup with the red/blue lights some time last year but it didn't really make a difference.I ended up giving my wife it for her orchid seedlings.
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Re: Growing vegetables/food crops with artificial light

Postby adnj » July 7th, 2022, 9:46 am

If you really want to your brain to hurt, take a look at medium base LED bulbs that are available in green-only and red-only.

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Re: Growing vegetables/food crops with artificial light

Postby timelapse » July 7th, 2022, 12:27 pm

adnj wrote:If you really want to your brain to hurt, take a look at medium base LED bulbs that are available in green-only and red-only.
Try that literally, look directly at the bulbs when on.Your brain will hurt.I use sunglasses when I working in the grow tent for white light.I could only imagine single colours

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Growing vegetables/food crops with artificial light

Postby Duane 3NE 2NR » July 7th, 2022, 4:42 pm

Got this AeroGarden as a gift about 6 weeks ago.
https://www.aerogarden.com/

It has artificial light and it circulates water and plant food automatically. It has a built in pump so it’s kinda like aquaponics.

We got basil, mint, thyme and parsley.
The basil and mint just took off and got huge

Image

Image

Image

Guessing those are white, infrared and ultraviolet LEDs

ps the screen next to it is an Alexa Echo Show, it’s unrelated to the aerogarden, just have both on the same table stand.

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Re: Growing vegetables/food crops with artificial light

Postby timelapse » July 7th, 2022, 5:56 pm

Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:Got this AeroGarden as a gift about 6 weeks ago.
https://www.aerogarden.com/

It has artificial light and it circulates water and plant food automatically. It has a built in pump so it’s kinda like aquaponics.

We got basil, mint, thyme and parsley.
The basil and mint just took off and got huge

Image

Image

Image

Guessing those are white, infrared and ultraviolet LEDs

ps the screen next to it is an Alexa Echo Show, it’s unrelated to the aerogarden, just have both on the same table stand.
Nice .Do you use ferts?

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Re: Growing vegetables/food crops with artificial light

Postby Duane 3NE 2NR » July 7th, 2022, 7:23 pm

Everything comes in the box. There’s a plant solution liquid that you add. The green light blinks when it’s time to add more.

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Re: Growing vegetables/food crops with artificial light

Postby pugboy » July 7th, 2022, 7:28 pm

do you dump the existing nutrient mix and replace with a completely new remixed solution ?

Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:Everything comes in the box. There’s a plant solution liquid that you add. The green light blinks when it’s time to add more.

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Re: Growing vegetables/food crops with artificial light

Postby Duane 3NE 2NR » July 7th, 2022, 8:57 pm

pugboy wrote:do you dump the existing nutrient mix and replace with a completely new remixed solution ?

Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:Everything comes in the box. There’s a plant solution liquid that you add. The green light blinks when it’s time to add more.

No just pour in a few drops into the base and then the green light tells you when to top up again

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Re: Growing vegetables/food crops with artificial light

Postby pugboy » July 7th, 2022, 9:32 pm

probably a basic greens nutrient mix

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Re: Growing vegetables/food crops with artificial light

Postby nervewrecker » July 7th, 2022, 10:21 pm

As we on this, I saw cube root farms in preysal using something called azomite with their indoor produce.

https://www.facebook.com/cuberootfarms

thoughts?

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Re: Growing vegetables/food crops with artificial light

Postby pugboy » July 7th, 2022, 10:47 pm

seems to be a mineral source of cal mag amd potassium
so you still need n and p
but appears marketed as a soil enhancer

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Re: Growing vegetables/food crops with artificial light

Postby timelapse » July 8th, 2022, 7:40 am

The azomite appears to be a commercial application of what I do with powdered egg shells and epsom salts.
In addition to the cal-mag nutrients, it lowers the ph of your soil,enabling the plant to absorb certain nutrients. Chart attached.
This is if you need to ammend your soil after planting, certain plants are greedy for different things.If your plants are happy , applying soil amendments such as these can be harmful to the plants.I had plants die from nitrogen toxicity as well as nutrient lock out already.A soil ph tester is a helpful investment.
Rain water will lower your ph naturally, as well as compost.
I see this as a more commercial product for people with certain soil issues.

How_Soil_pH_affects_availability_of_plant_nutrients-1024x827.jpg

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Re: Growing vegetables/food crops with artificial light

Postby timelapse » July 8th, 2022, 7:43 am

On another note, if you growing indoors, mycorrhizae supplements are a godsend.It keeps the soil functioning properly

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Re: Growing vegetables/food crops with artificial light

Postby aaron17 » July 8th, 2022, 11:29 am

So its basically like a large cuboid shed with one open area.
Sun and air enters that side. There is some direct sun in the morning time but by 9 am ..its gets shaded. There is sufficient of air/ very breezy. Close to the wall, we have typical chive, celery etc that gets direct sun to grow. We cannot put it on the opposite side due to how the sun moves..hence being shaded. That’s why I want to utilize the mostly shaded area for artificial light planting.
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Re: Growing vegetables/food crops with artificial light

Postby timelapse » July 8th, 2022, 11:55 am

You can diy if you have electrical skills or check modern for some cold white fixtures.Your call.

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Re: Growing vegetables/food crops with artificial light

Postby adnj » July 8th, 2022, 12:21 pm

aaron17 wrote:So its basically like a large cuboid shed with one open area.
Sun and air enters that side. There is some direct sun in the morning time but by 9 am ..its gets shaded. There is sufficient of air/ very breezy. Close to the wall, we have typical chive, celery etc that gets direct sun to grow. We cannot put it on the opposite side due to how the sun moves..hence being shaded. That’s why I want to utilize the mostly shaded area for artificial light planting.


Before spending for the lighting I would seriously consider replacing at least some of the galvanized corrugated sheeting used for the roof to clear polycarbonate sheeting.

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Re: Growing vegetables/food crops with artificial light

Postby aaron17 » July 8th, 2022, 12:25 pm

Hmmm

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Re: Growing vegetables/food crops with artificial light

Postby timelapse » July 8th, 2022, 12:39 pm

adnj wrote:
aaron17 wrote:So its basically like a large cuboid shed with one open area.
Sun and air enters that side. There is some direct sun in the morning time but by 9 am ..its gets shaded. There is sufficient of air/ very breezy. Close to the wall, we have typical chive, celery etc that gets direct sun to grow. We cannot put it on the opposite side due to how the sun moves..hence being shaded. That’s why I want to utilize the mostly shaded area for artificial light planting.


Before spending for the lighting I would seriously consider replacing at least some of the galvanized corrugated sheeting used for the roof to clear polycarbonate sheeting.
Also a very valid option.I saw some clear plastic made like galvanize sheets by R Maye last week

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Re: Growing vegetables/food crops with artificial light

Postby nervewrecker » July 8th, 2022, 5:37 pm

Galvanise will bake it with this heat and limit air circulation.

Polycarbonate may accumulate cracks and mildew fast.

Wire mesh will allow for air circulation and vegetative growth on it forming a porous barrier creating shade and natural cooling. But you got to maintain it.

We used styrofoam sheets to insulate buildings already and downsize on system capacity. It's a viable option for a roof with a bare metal frame. Holes cut with upside down plastic bottle bases will allow for light to penetrate and the white styrofoam surface will increase the reflective index inside for light. Can use styrofoam strips a few feet wide on the walls to limit porosity if it's an issue.

Cheap, lightweight, disposable and vegetative growth on the mesh walls promotes carbon capture. Just gotta maintain it.

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Re: Growing vegetables/food crops with artificial light

Postby adnj » July 8th, 2022, 5:57 pm

nervewrecker wrote:Galvanise will bake it with this heat and limit air circulation.

Polycarbonate may accumulate cracks and mildew fast.

Wire mesh will allow for air circulation and vegetative growth on it forming a porous barrier creating shade and natural cooling. But you got to maintain it.

We used styrofoam sheets to insulate buildings already and downsize on system capacity. It's a viable option for a roof with a bare metal frame. Holes cut with upside down plastic bottle bases will allow for light to penetrate and the white styrofoam surface will increase the reflective index inside for light. Can use styrofoam strips a few feet wide on the walls to limit porosity if it's an issue.

Cheap, lightweight, disposable and vegetative growth on the mesh walls promotes carbon capture. Just gotta maintain it.
1. It's a three-sided structure.
2. Polycarbonate shetting has a useful life of 15 to 30 years.
3. The best way to reduce radiated heat from a metal roof is to paint the outside surface in silver or pure white: ~97% reflection.

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Re: Growing vegetables/food crops with artificial light

Postby nervewrecker » July 8th, 2022, 8:57 pm

adnj wrote:
nervewrecker wrote:Galvanise will bake it with this heat and limit air circulation.

Polycarbonate may accumulate cracks and mildew fast.

Wire mesh will allow for air circulation and vegetative growth on it forming a porous barrier creating shade and natural cooling. But you got to maintain it.

We used styrofoam sheets to insulate buildings already and downsize on system capacity. It's a viable option for a roof with a bare metal frame. Holes cut with upside down plastic bottle bases will allow for light to penetrate and the white styrofoam surface will increase the reflective index inside for light. Can use styrofoam strips a few feet wide on the walls to limit porosity if it's an issue.

Cheap, lightweight, disposable and vegetative growth on the mesh walls promotes carbon capture. Just gotta maintain it.
1. It's a three-sided structure.
2. Polycarbonate shetting has a useful life of 15 to 30 years.
3. The best way to reduce radiated heat from a metal roof is to paint the outside surface in silver or pure white: ~97% reflection.
PVC pipe frame is cheap, even heavier filled with sand or cement.

Polycarbonate degrades with uv and gets scratched easy. Most headlights are ploycarbonate and they look like dried brittle cheeze slices in years. Cost is a factor here I assume.

You're talking color, I'm talking material composition. Metal is a very good conductor of heat and being a good conductor it's a good radiator of heat. A shipping container painted white will get hotter than a similar structure made of gypsum or styrofoam. Even less hot if vented.

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Re: Growing vegetables/food crops with artificial light

Postby adnj » July 8th, 2022, 9:54 pm

nervewrecker wrote:
adnj wrote:
nervewrecker wrote:Galvanise will bake it with this heat and limit air circulation.

Polycarbonate may accumulate cracks and mildew fast.

Wire mesh will allow for air circulation and vegetative growth on it forming a porous barrier creating shade and natural cooling. But you got to maintain it.

We used styrofoam sheets to insulate buildings already and downsize on system capacity. It's a viable option for a roof with a bare metal frame. Holes cut with upside down plastic bottle bases will allow for light to penetrate and the white styrofoam surface will increase the reflective index inside for light. Can use styrofoam strips a few feet wide on the walls to limit porosity if it's an issue.

Cheap, lightweight, disposable and vegetative growth on the mesh walls promotes carbon capture. Just gotta maintain it.
1. It's a three-sided structure.
2. Polycarbonate shetting has a useful life of 15 to 30 years.
3. The best way to reduce radiated heat from a metal roof is to paint the outside surface in silver or pure white: ~97% reflection.
PVC pipe frame is cheap, even heavier filled with sand or cement.

Polycarbonate degrades with uv and gets scratched easy. Most headlights are ploycarbonate and they look like dried brittle cheeze slices in years. Cost is a factor here I assume.

You're talking color, I'm talking material composition. Metal is a very good conductor of heat and being a good conductor it's a good radiator of heat. A shipping container painted white will get hotter than a similar structure made of gypsum or styrofoam. Even less hot if vented.


PVC pipe frame is cheap, even heavier filled with sand or cement.
What is this about?

Polycarbonate degrades with uv and gets scratched easy. Most headlights are ploycarbonate and they look like dried brittle cheeze slices in years. Cost is a factor here I assume.
The OP has a 3 sided galvanized corrugated sheet shed shown in a post above and wants to light it. Corrugated polycarbonate is a drop in replacement - if it clouds and crazes, he still gets light. The shed is missing a wall - it is well vented.

You're talking color, I'm talking material composition. Metal is a very good conductor of heat and being a good conductor it's a good radiator of heat. A shipping container painted white will get hotter than a similar structure made of gypsum or styrofoam. Even less hot if vented.

Again, the shed is vented. Metals absorb less thermal energy when coated for infrared reflection. Silver and pure white are infrared reflective pigments. Paints reflect IR as a consequence of the additives in the paint. A "cool roof" white is not the same as a white enamel from the hardware store.
Last edited by adnj on July 8th, 2022, 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Growing vegetables/food crops with artificial light

Postby nervewrecker » July 8th, 2022, 11:29 pm

PVC framework for his shed, I assumed he was now constructing such. Didn't realize he had something already he wanna light up.

I too tired for this, you guys can carry on the discussion.

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Re: Growing vegetables/food crops with artificial light

Postby timelapse » July 9th, 2022, 9:04 pm

Soo......Some daisy chained surface mount light sockets with 20 watt led bulbs ever sq foot should do you.Directly over what you planting.The galvanize should reflect some light, which will help.If not, there are some bright led bars that come in a ballast that resembles the long florescent lights.You will be using the actual wattage as opposed to the equivalence wattage.My best advice, start in a corner and expand if it works.No need to bust the bank only to realize that you not enjoying it.

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