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Gulf of Paria Underwater Welders Deaths: Commision of Enquiry.

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Re: Gulf of Paria Underwater Welders Deaths: Commision of Enquiry.

Postby pugboy » November 22nd, 2022, 9:27 am

so it’s pretty much confirmed they were alive for a looong time whilst paria blocked rescue efforts
so what is gonna be the end result of this coe?

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Re: Gulf of Paria Underwater Welders Deaths: Commision of Enquiry.

Postby MaxPower » November 22nd, 2022, 10:56 am

pugboy wrote:so what is gonna be the end result of this coe?


What u think pug?

It’s T&T.

Think.

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Re: Gulf of Paria Underwater Welders Deaths: Commision of Enquiry.

Postby aaron17 » November 22nd, 2022, 11:40 am

Things will happen if international countries intervene. I not sure an international accent gonna help.

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Re: Gulf of Paria Underwater Welders Deaths: Commision of Enquiry.

Postby pugboy » November 22nd, 2022, 11:42 am

unfortunately is doesn’t help that them fellas were using recreational gear

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Re: Gulf of Paria Underwater Welders Deaths: Commision of Enquiry.

Postby Chimera » November 22nd, 2022, 12:00 pm

this COE is just for what? to see whos to blame?

and then court cases would start after?

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Re: Gulf of Paria Underwater Welders Deaths: Commision of Enquiry.

Postby Val » November 22nd, 2022, 12:34 pm

There are separate issues that need to be considered and hopefully charges laid per issue:

1. The job planning and execution, with the root causes/missteps that led to the "Delta P" incident.
2. The SIMOPS that may have contributed to the "Delta P" incident, and how those SIMOPS were managed.
3. The rescue attempt (or lack thereof): response time, response methodology, and who called off the rescue and migrated to recovery and why.
4. Reporting on the incident, rescue, recovery to: media, families, other stakeholders such as OSHA, Coast Guard etc.
5. Preservation of the scene, restart operations order was given and governed by who/what procedure?

3 is of the biggest concern to me, because this seems on the surface to be criminal negligence leading directly to the deaths of some or all of the deceased, especially considering that Christopher's statement seems to contradict all the propaganda we've seen so far. We will know today I guess.

Men need to make a jail for this, somewhere there is negligence, this cannot just go with a slap on the wrist. It sickening.

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Re: Gulf of Paria Underwater Welders Deaths: Commision of Enquiry.

Postby pugboy » November 22nd, 2022, 1:14 pm

not expecting anything based on history of past coe’s

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Re: Gulf of Paria Underwater Welders Deaths: Commision of Enquiry.

Postby Chimera » November 22nd, 2022, 1:42 pm

i honestly suprised no one tried to kill the survivor before he could testify in the COE

alot of high level people suppose to be liable and probably be charged for this

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Re: Gulf of Paria Underwater Welders Deaths: Commision of Enquiry.

Postby ruffneck_12 » November 22nd, 2022, 1:45 pm

pugboy wrote:unfortunately is doesn’t help that them fellas were using recreational gear



So what professional diving gear hadda do with a negligent energizing of the pipeline?

And then a purposeful discontinuation of the search and rescue efforts?

I get where u coming from tho, hope this minor issues doesn't overshadow those two main points

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Re: Gulf of Paria Underwater Welders Deaths: Commision of Enquiry.

Postby pugboy » November 22nd, 2022, 1:59 pm

as mentioned above, its a number of diff issues at play

ruffneck_12 wrote:
pugboy wrote:unfortunately is doesn’t help that them fellas were using recreational gear



So what professional diving gear hadda do with a negligent energizing of the pipeline?

And then a purposeful discontinuation of the search and rescue efforts?

I get where u coming from tho, hope this minor issues doesn't overshadow those two main points

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Re: Gulf of Paria Underwater Welders Deaths: Commision of Enquiry.

Postby Chimera » November 22nd, 2022, 2:38 pm

ruffneck_12 wrote:
pugboy wrote:unfortunately is doesn’t help that them fellas were using recreational gear



So what professional diving gear hadda do with a negligent energizing of the pipeline?

And then a purposeful discontinuation of the search and rescue efforts?

I get where u coming from tho, hope this minor issues doesn't overshadow those two main points



at the end of it when it come down to $$$$
it will have a lot to do with it

i just calling a random figure here, but say they decide each man life worth 20 million that Paria or GORTT hadda pay
because of their willingness to use inadequate equipment and LCMS allowing them to use it, they are 50% a contributing factor to their own deaths....so the 20mil figure cut in half

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Re: Gulf of Paria Underwater Welders Deaths: Commision of Enquiry.

Postby pugboy » November 22nd, 2022, 2:51 pm

it is a tough proposition

boy a padna working BG say when he show his UK counterparts the pics
the first they ask is if them fellas is lobster divers and didnt even bother to want to know any further details

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Re: Gulf of Paria Underwater Welders Deaths: Commision of Enquiry.

Postby Chimera » November 22nd, 2022, 3:09 pm

yeah no matter what...them fellas know they not suppose to be doing that type of work with that type of equipment

they not even suppose to be inside there

their company not suppose to take that job if they know they not equipped

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Re: Gulf of Paria Underwater Welders Deaths: Commision of Enquiry.

Postby wingnut » November 22nd, 2022, 3:32 pm

As with most accidents of this nature, seems a like a number of failures on all sides leading up to this event as the details emerge. Would have happened sooner or later.

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Re: Gulf of Paria Underwater Welders Deaths: Commision of Enquiry.

Postby Chimera » November 22nd, 2022, 3:39 pm

i honestly feel LMCS might get more blame than Paria for allowing the issue to happen

and Paria will get blame for allowing the divers to die

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Re: Gulf of Paria Underwater Welders Deaths: Commision of Enquiry.

Postby pugboy » November 22nd, 2022, 3:41 pm

Paria will get some blame for not supervising the job to make sure the contractor was up to spec but blame on blame doesnt help anything

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Re: Gulf of Paria Underwater Welders Deaths: Commision of Enquiry.

Postby Chimera » November 22nd, 2022, 3:49 pm

who is it would get blamed for not supervising though?

not some low level person who was there on that day, that accustom to things being done the way they were being done that day?

is it that its going to be a few low level scapegoats getting curried?

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Re: Gulf of Paria Underwater Welders Deaths: Commision of Enquiry.

Postby Val » November 22nd, 2022, 3:57 pm

pugboy wrote:it is a tough proposition

boy a padna working BG say when he show his UK counterparts the pics
the first they ask is if them fellas is lobster divers and didnt even bother to want to know any further details


Typical big company response, if true. I assume you mean Shell, and their Dutch counterparts.
Blame the contractors if anything goes wrong.

Let's say the divers were fully competent, and had all the required gear, along with the right permit etc. Are we saying then:
1. The Delta P incident would not have occured as the sequence of events associated with the riser work was the only cause? There was no external SIMOPS that contributed?
2. The divers would not have been sucked in, assuming the incident still occured, and thus required no rescue
3. The divers having been sucked in would've been able to rescue themselves having better gear
4. The divers would've been able to accept a rescue attempt, as they would've been assumed to be alive.

I'm trying to look at this from all angles. But I think items are being missed from this COE.

What caused the differential pressure incident?
Why were the men not rescued?
Why was the pipe capped?
What SIMOPS related to the riser were being conducted?

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Re: Gulf of Paria Underwater Welders Deaths: Commision of Enquiry.

Postby sMASH » November 22nd, 2022, 4:59 pm

Phone Surgeon wrote:who is it would get blamed for not supervising though?

not some low level person who was there on that day, that accustom to things being done the way they were being done that day?

is it that its going to be a few low level scapegoats getting curried?
Company always supposed to ensure all those working adhering to specs.
Oshtt had posted that release a few months ago.
Paris ultimately responsible and liable.


They digging a deeper hole fur themselves bus admitting they weren't supervising.

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Re: Gulf of Paria Underwater Welders Deaths: Commision of Enquiry.

Postby Animal Pak » November 23rd, 2022, 12:10 am

Safety person here.

The uncomfortable fact that no one can get away from is that 5 men came to work on Paria site. 1 returned home.

This is the crux of the matter.

Who what when why and how are all just semantics at this point.

Unless Paria can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that 4 men committed suicide while on their job site , they are ultimately responsible.

The best case for Paria and worst case for divers is if they (Paria) can prove “something” killed the men.

The best case for the divers and worst case for Paria is if they (divers) prove “someone” killed them.

Once deaths occur, the investigation basically is about assigning blame to a person(s) or thing(s).

At the minimum fines will have to be paid and at the maximum fines and lock up will have to take place.

But this is Trinidad, so we’ll have to see how this plays out.

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Re: Gulf of Paria Underwater Welders Deaths: Commision of Enquiry.

Postby pugboy » November 23rd, 2022, 6:11 am

which authority is the one to do criminal fines/charges?
don’t tell me farmer mac

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Re: Gulf of Paria Underwater Welders Deaths: Commision of Enquiry.

Postby VII » November 23rd, 2022, 7:22 am

Only one authority can charge/indict, and only one authority can instruct that authority to charge/indict.

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Re: Gulf of Paria Underwater Welders Deaths: Commision of Enquiry.

Postby Animal Pak » November 23rd, 2022, 8:52 am

How it is supposed to work under the law is OSHA will come in to investigate and start to share licks with a very big stick.

OSHA has real legal power here (re: Powers of an Inspector under OSH TT Act)

Under the law up to the Minister of Energy can get stick.

This commission of enquiry however is a glorified ole talk.

It’s great that the story is coming to light but they really have no legal authority to do anything.

The outcome of this will be recommendations which will be submitted to the gortt which hopefully they will read in parliament and take action.


That being said, the PM could simply ignore the recommendations and life goes on.

It is what it is.

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Re: Gulf of Paria Underwater Welders Deaths: Commision of Enquiry.

Postby pugboy » November 23rd, 2022, 8:55 am

"the whole country making noise"
"ok, give them a coe to cool it down"

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Re: Gulf of Paria Underwater Welders Deaths: Commision of Enquiry.

Postby 16 cycles » November 23rd, 2022, 9:43 am

Phone Surgeon wrote:yeah no matter what...them fellas know they not suppose to be doing that type of work with that type of equipment

they not even suppose to be inside there

their company not suppose to take that job if they know they not equipped



from another point of view - there ought to be systems in place to evaluate the technical side of proposals before awarding to a contractor - HSSE (X% of score) / Methodology (Y%) / Experience (Z%) etc.

In addition, at point of execution, a company should be onsite to evaluate the systems and PPE in place prior to start of job.

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Re: Gulf of Paria Underwater Welders Deaths: Commision of Enquiry.

Postby Chimera » November 23rd, 2022, 9:48 am

Apparently their level of PPE was standard for all work and workers locally though

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Re: Gulf of Paria Underwater Welders Deaths: Commision of Enquiry.

Postby Alpha_2nr » November 23rd, 2022, 10:21 am

Val wrote:There are separate issues that need to be considered and hopefully charges laid per issue:

1. The job planning and execution, with the root causes/missteps that led to the "Delta P" incident.
2. The SIMOPS that may have contributed to the "Delta P" incident, and how those SIMOPS were managed.
3. The rescue attempt (or lack thereof): response time, response methodology, and who called off the rescue and migrated to recovery and why.
4. Reporting on the incident, rescue, recovery to: media, families, other stakeholders such as OSHA, Coast Guard etc.
5. Preservation of the scene, restart operations order was given and governed by who/what procedure?

3 is of the biggest concern to me, because this seems on the surface to be criminal negligence leading directly to the deaths of some or all of the deceased, especially considering that Christopher's statement seems to contradict all the propaganda we've seen so far. We will know today I guess.

Men need to make a jail for this, somewhere there is negligence, this cannot just go with a slap on the wrist. It sickening.


Well said sir. To add to this Val, they should also provide evidence of the involvement of process safety and isolation authorities for the job prior. Risk Assessments? LO/TO tracking? HAZID done? To me, this was always...always....a Process Safety and HSE issue first, and a diving/technical issue second.

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Re: Gulf of Paria Underwater Welders Deaths: Commision of Enquiry.

Postby pugboy » November 23rd, 2022, 10:24 am

yeah he was saying scuba gear better since they taking it off when they reach down into the job site

Phone Surgeon wrote:Apparently their level of PPE was standard for all work and workers locally though

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Re: Gulf of Paria Underwater Welders Deaths: Commision of Enquiry.

Postby Val » November 23rd, 2022, 11:02 am

I have been thinking about this Delta P incident, and the plug.

If the habitat was pressurised beyond atmospheric pressure to allow the air bubble for the men to work/weld etc., and the plug was put in place, then what was the pressure within the pipe downstream the plug? Was it open to atmosphere, or was it also pressurised to the same as the habitat, such that if the plug indeed had to be removed or was compromised and had to be replaced, there would be no sudden inrush of sea water into the habitat as the habitat depressurised?

Was the pipe pressurised, and then suddenly depressurised (or pumped)? What were the SIMOPS that led to the incident.

Why did the line downstream the plug have oil and apparently flammable gases, an inflatable plug that is subject to failure is used AND a hot work permit issued? Was gas sniff testing required?

Also, why is Colin Piper, who seems to be central to the events on the day, not being deposed right now along with Christopher Boodram and others.

Why is Paria allowed to provide witness statements in easter 2023, while cross examinations are taking place right now.

What protocol was used to manage the emergency response? Is Paria (like Petrotrin before it) subject to the rules of ICS 100, 200 and 300 of US FEMA like other oil and gas companies? If yes, were these protocols followed? Where is the documentation for this?

What were the sources of information used to determine that the rescue needed to be a recovery? Certainly not a man under mental and physical duress, and subject to medicated treatment would not have been the sole source.

Who is the TRT, who is the Incident Commander? These persons are central to the discussion. Again, focus seems to be on the incident and not the response.

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Re: Gulf of Paria Underwater Welders Deaths: Commision of Enquiry.

Postby K74T » November 23rd, 2022, 12:57 pm

For the first time since the Paria diving tragedy, which resulted in the deaths of four LMCS divers, WhatsApp messages between Paria and Heritage officials from the incident now show how the tragic incident was being handled behind the scenes.

The messages form part of the Supplemental Core Bundle Final document which was published to the website of the Commission of Enquiry (CoE) set up to investigate the incident.

The CoE started on Monday and so far, the Commissioners, led by King’s Counsel Jerome Lynch have heard from Christopher Boodram, the lone survivor of the February 25 incident.

His colleagues, Yusuf Henry, Kazim Ali Junior, Rishi Nagassar and Fyzal Kurban, died inside the 30-inch pipeline the five were sucked into while doing underwater subsea maintenance work on Paria’s Berth 6 in Pointe-a-Pierre on the day in question.

In the submission made to the CoE, screenshots of messages sent to a WhatsApp group titled “Temp Paria Incident” documented how the incident was handled by the company.

It contains several updates on the incident, accompanied by dates and times.

From the document, Guardian Media observed messages sent from contacts identified as executive managers at Heritage Petroleum, including COO Patricia King, CEO Arlene Chow, corporate communications manager Arlene Gorin-George, business development leader James Walker, HSSE leader Wendell Seecharan, midstream leader Anil Singh and operations technology manager Shamael Ali.

There were several other names in the chat, including Osei Fleming Holder, Curtis De Vries and Rawle Arneaud.

Many of the messages included abbreviations, with ROV, which according to Google stands for Remotely Operated Vehicle, which is used in the oil and gas industry.

In the first message on February 25, Walker writes “Providing an update 5.37 pm…”

Walker states Chow was speaking to Shell about their ROV and details Chow’s efforts to get an ROV from other companies in the industry.

He also details efforts to get divers to the scene, stating a decision was made to mobilise eight divers, two vessels, two emergency medical technicians (EMTs), underwater cameras and underwater lights.

In another update at 6.27 pm, Walker said one man had been recovered.

“Suspect the others are lodged in the pipeline. LMCS wants to get into pipeline, Coast Guard does not have the resources on the ground at the time. Coast Guard left Staubles Bay. Rescue plan to be put in place,” Walker wrote.

He also provides updates on the arrival of the two diving teams and the ROVs.

In another update at 7.37 pm under the heading “Medical,” Walker wrote, “Ambulance and EMTs- Four ambulances on site, two from TTFS and two from GMR. The Santa Flora ambulance will arrive in twenty minutes with two EMTs…”

He adds, “Hospital - San Fernando Hospital informed.”
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Walker also references a holding statement, writing, “Drafted by Paria and a separate from Heritage. Heritage draft will replace Paria draft.”

Immediately afterwards, King responds to an earlier message she sent, which said, “Gulfstream 30 mins away. Coming fully equipped with lights, compressed air etc,” with “OTSL Gulfstream Eagle Vessel 30mins away.”

Several of the messages from the thread appear to have been omitted from the evidence submitted to the CoE, as the next message comes from Fleming Holder at 12.53 am.

At 1.01 am on February 26, Walker gives another update, providing notes from calls made shortly before midnight on February 25.

“Hummingbird- Anthony Viera. 90 degree elbow. If crawler cannot work, a rescue team cannot get in. Crawler weights 80lbs and has good traction, LED lights if they can on to it. Tether on the crawler allows to pull out, manually.”
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At 12.20 am, Walker notes that Andy Johnson, of Eastern Divers, was willing to enter the pipe but wrote, “Has no cameras.”

Walker then says there would be a three-pronged approach.

“ALNG vertical + Hummingbird horizontal with crawler + ROV on outside. Then Eastern Divers for the manned rescue.”

At 12.40 am, Walker said the expected arrival time of the Eastern Divers was 90 minutes.

“Briefed Andy that there is a breathing tank lodged in the pipe,” Walker continued.
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Fifteen minutes later, he references Paria’s general manager, Mushtaq Mohammed.

“Mushtaq update- explained that the camera went 30ft on the horizontal before it met the stuck tank. Next steps is to get the camera past the tank. Hummingbird camera when it arrives more likely to get past the tank.”

He then said a diver would enter the pipeline to visually inspect.

“When the diver goes to check, us (*sic) the tank to make noise for the guys to hear if they’re conscious,” Walker wrote.

In an update from Fleming Holder, Walker said there was a “non-intrusive” dive being planned. He said while an ROV had arrived, there was no manual or “knowledgeable operator.”
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Walker goes on to log communication and messages, including a plan to “open Berth 5” and send in a crawler.

In an update labelled “26/2 0254,” Walker writes, “Two working drafts for press releases.”

Focus on managing info leaks

The next series of messages are time stamped at 7.29 am.

Chow writes, “How did they get it,” then “In” then “Eastern Divers stood down??”

Arneaud responds, “They formed a sort of vigil. Apparently, they came in to support the rescue effort when the event occurred and remained onsite.”

King responds, “They are going to start taking pics n posting. This needs to be managed asap.”

Chow then chimes in again, suggesting the group, who remain unidentified, be moved to an office.

“Give them a good conference room good *sic and drink for the,” Chow’s next message reads.

Again, messages seem to be missing from the conversation thread, as the next page in the evidence begins with De Vries responding to a message from King to call to the gate, saying the information was sent but the officers did not pass it along to their relief.
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Chow responds, “Tell him get w the plan.”

In his response, De Vries said, “Just called they should have clearance…again.”

Gorin-George then updates the group about a media release being delayed as “Newman” wanted to include information on LMCS and how they were awarded the contract for the work.

In another update, Walker documents “to do’s for BST 26.2 0800.”

This list includes checking Berth 6 for “business continuity,” EAP for Heritage staff, “Plan Safety Standdown 830-900 am Monday,” media releases, a press conference planned for later in the day and plans to have a Port-of-Spain office cleaned.
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At 9.50 am, Singh writes, “Mushtaq and Collin Piper are the 2 main Paria point persons.”

In three messages at 9.57 am, Seecharan reveals he has been informed that Boodram tested positive for COVID-19.

In his testimony at the CoE yesterday, Boodram denied having COVID and said his repeated requests to be placed in a decompression chamber were ignored.

“He is presently at the SFG hospital and therefore we need medical advise to get him to HULL Support Facility at Labidco to undergo depress in thr Hyperbaric Chamber,” Seecharan wrote.

At 10.04 am, Gorin-George said, “A space is now identified for the families. Nerissa is now working to move them. A Paria employee is having what she terms a breakdown.”

She later writes, “And one family member, Kazim from LMCS is also very agitated…”

Kazim Ali Snr, the owner of LMCS, lost his son, Kazim Ali Jr, in the incident.

The rest of the message cannot be seen.

The next message came from Singh, asking Gorin-George where the relatives of the missing men were being kept.

While the tragedy was unfolding, there were numerous complaints from the relatives of the missing men that they were not receiving information from Paria and they were being made to wait at the company’s gates.
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In response to Singh’s message, Gorin-George responds, “Humming Bird Suite.”

At 10.20 am, Ali sends several messages to the group, documenting the arrival of the Lorena B bunker vessel.

“Parallel... Rescue team and scaffolding to be set up at both berths,” Ali wrote.

He follows his messages with two diagrams of the pipeline connecting Berths 5 and 6.

At 10.23 am, De Vries wrote, “Wives and girlfriends are mustered in the car park outside the compound at Plein Palais gate.”
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Chow instructs, “We need to get them in a room.”

Several messages seem to be omitted at this point as well, as the next message comes from Seecharan stating doctors had gotten clearance to release Boodram from the San Fernando General Hospital.

At 11.01 am, Seecharan said two doctors attending to Boodram had advised he no longer needed to be placed in a decompression chamber.

At 11.13 am, Chow writes, “The eastern divers need a conference call with the ops guys. He is saying the line needs to be flushed before they can go in.”

King responds, “So please ensure Mushtaq n the Minister are aware of this extra sensitive issue.”

Arneaud joins the conversation after King advises Chow to let the divers from Eastern contact him.

“The plan is to reconnect with Eastern once the line is pumped out and the crawler goes back in to give us visuals and more information.”

Lifting incident setback

At 11.18 am, Gorin-George notes that media personnel and family were on site, “making demands.”

At 12.14 am on February 27, Fleming Holder writes, “Cutting of the braces on the hyperbaric chamber has started.”

Almost three hours later, he reports that the lifting team was experiencing difficulties in removing the chamber.

At 3.42 am, he writes, “Good morning lifting incident occurred at 3.39 am.”

Fleming Holder accompanies his messages with several photos and then writes, “Wire rope burst.”

He notes there were no injuries in the incident.

Chow responds “Lord. Lifting rope,” at 3.46 am.

He responds, labelling the incident as a setback and saying a crane barge was required.

“Divers required to inspect any damages to the riser.”

At 4.12 am, King chimes in, saying, “This shows the weights n rating of the rope wasn’t checked. Need to fully stop.”

Fleming Holder again confirms that there were no injuries and advises that work permits have been pulled.

King responds, “We hv to stop this rushing as the teams aren’t checking work properly.”
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The last message in the chain presented to the Commission comes from Chow at 4.30 am.

“Did it impact the riser?” she writes in response to messages from Fleming Holder.

Her message was the last of 26 pages of screenshots presented to the Commission.

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