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Company I am working for refuses to pay my NIS

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Re: Company I am working for refuses to pay my NIS

Postby pioneer5220 » January 25th, 2022, 12:04 pm

Dave wrote:A short term contract for service is an open and shut case. I would only fault them for not saying you are responsible for remitting your own statutory payments.
They will employ you...break the contract for a period then rehire. No obligation for them to deduct and remit anything on your behalf.


oh ok thank you I had no idea this was possible, I suppose it is something the finance minister would have to address by updating the constitution. Perhaps this will be done when they overhaul the entire NIB as they were planning some years now.

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Re: Company I am working for refuses to pay my NIS

Postby Bad Dog » January 25th, 2022, 12:07 pm

As an independent contract worker you are hired for specific service and you are responsible for your own taxes and has no employer sponsored benefits which includes sick days/pay. pension or other employee related benefits. Simply, independent contract workers are not employees of the company but a permanent contract worker is a different story.

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Re: Company I am working for refuses to pay my NIS

Postby redmanjp » January 25th, 2022, 12:10 pm

either way u should have another source of income for when u retire as NIS is a small amount of money, but its even more critical if u not getting any NIS. so u should start making a contribution to a UTC account or an annuity or something. even if its just $200 per month u could afford its better than nothing.

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Re: Company I am working for refuses to pay my NIS

Postby pioneer5220 » January 25th, 2022, 12:14 pm

Bad Dog wrote:As an independent contract worker you are hired for specific service and you are responsible for your own taxes and has no employer sponsored benefits which includes sick days/pay. pension or other employee related benefits. Simply, independent contract workers are not employees of the company but a permanent contract worker is a different story.


ok it is a good thing I asked here to verify this, I now realize these things are indeed possible I just never experienced anything like this in any previous company I worked for in the past. I suppose many companies probably realized this was possible when they started hiring venezuealan migrants and having realized this they probably just decided to start hiring everybody like contractors.

Thank you guys for all the help I realize now this is a lost cause, on the plus side I guess I can pocket all the NIS money or invest it into UTC.
The girl in the pharmacy seems rather happy about her current situation she is 23 years old but she says she prefers to pocket the NIS money to buy clothes etc so I guess this new arrangement works out for some people.

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Re: Company I am working for refuses to pay my NIS

Postby pioneer5220 » January 25th, 2022, 12:19 pm

redmanjp wrote:either way u should have another source of income for when u retire as NIS is a small amount of money, but its even more critical if u not getting any NIS. so u should start making a contribution to a UTC account or an annuity or something. even if its just $200 per month u could afford its better than nothing.


Thank you so much for this information, I will take the NIS money and pay UTC instead. Kinda feel dumb now paying those 260 contributions since it is money down the toilet now as most companies probably won't be paying NIS from now on.

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Re: Company I am working for refuses to pay my NIS

Postby redmanjp » January 25th, 2022, 12:20 pm

hope that girl have some savings/retirement plan. if u spend out your whole salary and doh even have a lil NIS money far less a good retirement plan all of a sudden u go be poor when u reach 60 and realize u have to continue working into your old age.

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Re: Company I am working for refuses to pay my NIS

Postby 88sins » January 25th, 2022, 12:31 pm

wtf wrote:Once he is earning greater than $200 per week from an employer he is entitled to have his nis paid by said employer.

Remember he ain't getting any younger and at the end he would have had 1 year less nis contributions towards his retirement.



like yuh missing the deeper understanding
In short, the company is not his employer, because from a legal viewpoint, he is a contracted service provider and he doesn't work for the company as an employee, and as a result he doesn't have the benefits or responsibilities of a traditional employee (paid sick & vacation leave, severance pay, etc). He's basically self employed and providing his services to the company in question, so he is responsible for paying his own taxes, nis, annuities etc, with zero input from the company he's providing his services to.
For example,an all inclusive fete promoter will hire a guy to supply doubles in a fete for 8 hrs, & he gets paid a lump sum to supply a fixed amount of doubles. If that fete promoter had a fete every day of the year and gave the same guy a one year contract to supply the same amount of doubles in every event, that doubles man is still not an employee of the promoter, and the promoter isn't legally obligated to deduct PAYE, NIS or HS or pay it on his behalf.
A lot of employers are doing this nowadays to get away from having to dip into the company pockets to pay the 2/3 of the monthly contribution, and it's perfectly legal, but I will say that it's the workers fault for accepting that arrangement. Can't agree to an arrangement and then want to alter the terms after the fact, and what accepting this kinda thing does is encourage employers to do this as a way to dodge the responsibilities and liabilities of the company that comes with hiring employees, while at the same time getting the same performance as though they had a full time employee. And so they will continue to do it, because they preying on the desperation and ignorance of those in the labor pool.

My advice, NOBODY should accept these kinds of contract work because you setting yourself up (and those that come after you) to get shafted.
jmho

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Re: Company I am working for refuses to pay my NIS

Postby hover11 » January 25th, 2022, 1:02 pm

pioneer5220 wrote:They say that I am a service provider and contractor although they pay my salary monthly through the bank but refuses to take out the NIS and pay it.

I am on a 1 year contract presently. I work on a computer at the company everyday my position is marketing and tech support

I went into NIS office they said I can't pay it myself because I am working at the company, I spoke to my manager and he said that NIS has no clue what they are talking about and that I can pay it myself

WTF to do
From the sound of it you are on a contract for service this is work done by contractors and not a contract of service which is undertaken by employees and because of such there is no employee /employer relationship so no statutory deductions are to be made. The onus is on the employer to deduct contributions on behalf of his employees. At this time there is nothing in place to accommodate self employed individuals, there has been talk by the minister of finance for years over such but alas to no avail, so until further notice that is not possible.

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Re: Company I am working for refuses to pay my NIS

Postby widdyphuck » January 25th, 2022, 1:12 pm

How much the cashier working for at 23 years of age?

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Re: Company I am working for refuses to pay my NIS

Postby Ryan197912 » January 25th, 2022, 1:25 pm

The Industrial Court of TnT uses a series of tests to determine if someone notwithstanding the presence of a written agreement to determine if a contract for service or a contract of service exists.
Some of these tests include the following-
1. Power to dismiss
2. Pesonal performance and exclusivity
3. Method of payment
4. Control Test..amongst others.

That being said in this Economic climate just say thanks you have money coming in, take the advice of someone higher up this thread and form your own company and hire yourself.

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Re: Company I am working for refuses to pay my NIS

Postby Dizzy28 » January 25th, 2022, 1:31 pm

If he isn't really bringing in too much money and really only working for that $4500/month it probably isn't wort it to register an LLC.

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Re: Company I am working for refuses to pay my NIS

Postby redmanjp » January 25th, 2022, 1:43 pm

if he is a service provider, he shouldn't be getting a 'salary'. Salaries are for employees.

also he should be able to charge his own price- since when the company decides what to charge him for? doesn't a service provider decide that?

OP u should invoice the company for a higher amount.

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Re: Company I am working for refuses to pay my NIS

Postby pioneer5220 » January 25th, 2022, 2:07 pm

wtf wrote:How much the cashier working for at 23 years of age?


$20 an hour.

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Re: Company I am working for refuses to pay my NIS

Postby pioneer5220 » January 25th, 2022, 2:17 pm

redmanjp wrote:if he is a service provider, he shouldn't be getting a 'salary'. Salaries are for employees.

also he should be able to charge his own price- since when the company decides what to charge him for? doesn't a service provider decide that?

OP u should invoice the company for a higher amount.


They got angry with me for going to NIS and showing them my contract and also for discussing the issue with the person in charge of salary payment, I think they are going to fire me now.

So I will say nothing further and look for another job

Thank you everyone for all the assistance.

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Re: Company I am working for refuses to pay my NIS

Postby hover11 » January 25th, 2022, 2:19 pm

redmanjp wrote:either way u should have another source of income for when u retire as NIS is a small amount of money, but its even more critical if u not getting any NIS. so u should start making a contribution to a UTC account or an annuity or something. even if its just $200 per month u could afford its better than nothing.
This!!!Everyday I see ppl who destitute waiting months sometimes even years for their pensions and I ask myself what were you doing with your life that you have NOTHING in your old age. Pretend it have no NIS or old age pension because due to the aging population that could be a reality in the not too distant future unless ofc the government pull a similar bail out as the clico effect. Always invest in private pensions, regardless if your employer offers one it better to have 3 or four pensions than just depending on the government

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Re: Company I am working for refuses to pay my NIS

Postby widdyphuck » January 25th, 2022, 2:27 pm

I have sat in many sessions hosted by NIB.
You getting played with that service contractor bs bro. That's illegal.

Get some advice from a lawyer.

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Re: Company I am working for refuses to pay my NIS

Postby Chimera » January 25th, 2022, 2:44 pm

pioneer5220 wrote:
redmanjp wrote:if he is a service provider, he shouldn't be getting a 'salary'. Salaries are for employees.

also he should be able to charge his own price- since when the company decides what to charge him for? doesn't a service provider decide that?

OP u should invoice the company for a higher amount.


They got angry with me for going to NIS and showing them my contract and also for discussing the issue with the person in charge of salary payment, I think they are going to fire me now.

So I will say nothing further and look for another job

Thank you everyone for all the assistance.
I tell yuh be careful with what u doing.

Study what illegal while yuh home starving and 100 other people gladly take that job for less money.

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Re: Company I am working for refuses to pay my NIS

Postby widdyphuck » January 25th, 2022, 2:50 pm

Phone Surgeon wrote:
pioneer5220 wrote:
redmanjp wrote:if he is a service provider, he shouldn't be getting a 'salary'. Salaries are for employees.

also he should be able to charge his own price- since when the company decides what to charge him for? doesn't a service provider decide that?

OP u should invoice the company for a higher amount.


They got angry with me for going to NIS and showing them my contract and also for discussing the issue with the person in charge of salary payment, I think they are going to fire me now.

So I will say nothing further and look for another job

Thank you everyone for all the assistance.
I tell yuh be careful with what u doing.

Study what illegal while yuh home starving and 100 other people gladly take that job for less money.
He is just educating himself without his employer knowing.

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Re: Company I am working for refuses to pay my NIS

Postby pioneer5220 » January 25th, 2022, 2:57 pm

Phone Surgeon wrote:
I tell yuh be careful with what u doing.

Study what illegal while yuh home starving and 100 other people gladly take that job for less money.[/quote]


^ Yes I should have listened to you and left that alone and said nothing, the good thing is they have very short memory here the boss and management are so busy that they completely forget what you say in just a few hours. By next day it is like nothing ever happened, so all I have to do from this point is to just be quiet and never bring up this matter again and just go a 2 years, gain my experience and look for something better.

I should mention it is not a job just about anybody can do, it is an IT job that does require decades of experience and strong knowledge of networking and computing. However you are correct there are IT people with masters degree who call us begging for work, when I say they pay minimum wage here, these people without hesitation say they will gladly take it, this is the current situation so you are 100% correct on this matter, fighting a losing battle is a waste of time.

So I will just focus on finishing up my degree and gaining my experience here and move on in about 2 years, this seems to be the best bet for me instead of taking on this demotivating stress. At least this will motivate me to study harder, I am looking at this on the bright side I will gain valuable knowledge and I have time to study
Last edited by pioneer5220 on January 25th, 2022, 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Company I am working for refuses to pay my NIS

Postby Chimera » January 25th, 2022, 3:01 pm

Quietly look for something better but don't leave sure money if you know you need it.

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Re: Company I am working for refuses to pay my NIS

Postby pioneer5220 » January 25th, 2022, 3:02 pm

Phone Surgeon wrote:Quietly look for something better but don't leave sure money if you know you need it.


Will do, thank you kind sir for all your advice.

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Re: Company I am working for refuses to pay my NIS

Postby The_Honourable » January 25th, 2022, 3:55 pm

Dizzy28 wrote:If he isn't really bringing in too much money and really only working for that $4500/month it probably isn't wort it to register an LLC.


Yeah LLC not worth it.

@pioneer5220, register as a sole trader. A sole trader is a self-employed person who owns and runs their own business as an individual. Then register with NIB and make voluntary contributions so you would not lose out on the 260 that you already made. As mentioned by redmanjp, have another plan going on in case NIS doesn't pan out. Reliance on a government plan is risky now and may even be worse in the future. As mentioned, check UTC or even First Citizens Investment Services. Another you can check is Guardian Asset Management.

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Re: Company I am working for refuses to pay my NIS

Postby hover11 » January 25th, 2022, 4:22 pm

The_Honourable wrote:
Dizzy28 wrote:If he isn't really bringing in too much money and really only working for that $4500/month it probably isn't wort it to register an LLC.


Yeah LLC not worth it.

@pioneer5220, register as a sole trader. A sole trader is a self-employed person who owns and runs their own business as an individual. Then register with NIB and make voluntary contributions so you would not lose out on the 260 that you already made. As mentioned by redmanjp, have another plan going on in case NIS doesn't pan out. Reliance on a government plan is risky now and may even be worse in the future. As mentioned, check UTC or even First Citizens Investment Services. Another you can check is Guardian Asset Management.
Sole traders can only pay for their workers not for themselves and for voluntary contributions an in depth interview is conducted regarding where you will be getting the funds to make these contributions, as opposed to normal contributions which one third is paid by the employee and two thirds by the employer , voluntary you will be paying the entire amount and you cannot be self employed or else you will be blanked.Voluntary contributions are really targeted for persons close to retirement and have money set aside but missing payments for the 750 contributions to help them get a pension

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Re: Company I am working for refuses to pay my NIS

Postby Dizzy28 » January 25th, 2022, 4:33 pm

hover11 wrote:
The_Honourable wrote:
Dizzy28 wrote:If he isn't really bringing in too much money and really only working for that $4500/month it probably isn't wort it to register an LLC.


Yeah LLC not worth it.

@pioneer5220, register as a sole trader. A sole trader is a self-employed person who owns and runs their own business as an individual. Then register with NIB and make voluntary contributions so you would not lose out on the 260 that you already made. As mentioned by redmanjp, have another plan going on in case NIS doesn't pan out. Reliance on a government plan is risky now and may even be worse in the future. As mentioned, check UTC or even First Citizens Investment Services. Another you can check is Guardian Asset Management.
Sole traders can only pay for their workers not for themselves and for voluntary contributions an in depth interview is conducted regarding where you will be getting the funds to make these contributions, as opposed to normal contributions which one third is paid by the employee and two thirds by the employer , voluntary you will be paying the entire amount and you cannot be self employed or else you will be blanked.Voluntary contributions are really targeted for persons close to retirement and have money set aside but missing payments for the 750 contributions to help them get a pension


Correct!!
My pardner is a sole trader in the food business and earlier today I asked him if the NIB system allows him to pay for himself he said no. He however pays the 2/3rd contribution for his three employees.

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Re: Company I am working for refuses to pay my NIS

Postby Bad Dog » January 25th, 2022, 4:41 pm

You would not loose your NIB contributions. Get a copy of your NIB records and hold on to it...if and when you get another job you can continue to contribute to your NIB plan. At age 40 you still have a long way to go before retirement and you only need another 490 contribution to make up the 750 needed for a full NIB pension.

Don't loose sleep over this continue working at least you have an income and you can take care of your family and pay the bills. Meanwhile you can continue to look for something better.

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Re: Company I am working for refuses to pay my NIS

Postby redmanjp » January 25th, 2022, 4:45 pm

OP maybe get in touch with a union and ask for advice. My mom used to work in BIGWU which was mainly for bank workers but they represented other as well. guess what- they won most cases that went to court.

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Re: Company I am working for refuses to pay my NIS

Postby DMan7 » January 25th, 2022, 4:54 pm

Speaking of NIS just now I feel NIS would just be a tax and we will not be getting any actual insurance when we reach 60+ years of age.

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Re: Company I am working for refuses to pay my NIS

Postby hover11 » January 25th, 2022, 5:08 pm

Dizzy28 wrote:
hover11 wrote:
The_Honourable wrote:
Dizzy28 wrote:If he isn't really bringing in too much money and really only working for that $4500/month it probably isn't wort it to register an LLC.


Yeah LLC not worth it.

@pioneer5220, register as a sole trader. A sole trader is a self-employed person who owns and runs their own business as an individual. Then register with NIB and make voluntary contributions so you would not lose out on the 260 that you already made. As mentioned by redmanjp, have another plan going on in case NIS doesn't pan out. Reliance on a government plan is risky now and may even be worse in the future. As mentioned, check UTC or even First Citizens Investment Services. Another you can check is Guardian Asset Management.
Sole traders can only pay for their workers not for themselves and for voluntary contributions an in depth interview is conducted regarding where you will be getting the funds to make these contributions, as opposed to normal contributions which one third is paid by the employee and two thirds by the employer , voluntary you will be paying the entire amount and you cannot be self employed or else you will be blanked.Voluntary contributions are really targeted for persons close to retirement and have money set aside but missing payments for the 750 contributions to help them get a pension


Correct!!
My pardner is a sole trader in the food business and earlier today I asked him if the NIB system allows him to pay for himself he said no. He however pays the 2/3rd contribution for his three employees.
Also Alot of ppl get it confused, you are only considered an employer in the eyes of the NIB when you hire your first employee , coming to the office only to be turned away due to having no employees

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Re: Company I am working for refuses to pay my NIS

Postby The_Honourable » January 25th, 2022, 5:12 pm

Dizzy28 wrote:
hover11 wrote:
The_Honourable wrote:
Dizzy28 wrote:If he isn't really bringing in too much money and really only working for that $4500/month it probably isn't wort it to register an LLC.


Yeah LLC not worth it.

@pioneer5220, register as a sole trader. A sole trader is a self-employed person who owns and runs their own business as an individual. Then register with NIB and make voluntary contributions so you would not lose out on the 260 that you already made. As mentioned by redmanjp, have another plan going on in case NIS doesn't pan out. Reliance on a government plan is risky now and may even be worse in the future. As mentioned, check UTC or even First Citizens Investment Services. Another you can check is Guardian Asset Management.
Sole traders can only pay for their workers not for themselves and for voluntary contributions an in depth interview is conducted regarding where you will be getting the funds to make these contributions, as opposed to normal contributions which one third is paid by the employee and two thirds by the employer , voluntary you will be paying the entire amount and you cannot be self employed or else you will be blanked. Voluntary contributions are really targeted for persons close to retirement and have money set aside but missing payments for the 750 contributions to help them get a pension


Correct!!
My pardner is a sole trader in the food business and earlier today I asked him if the NIB system allows him to pay for himself he said no. He however pays the 2/3rd contribution for his three employees.


I think as he has employees that's why he didn't get through. If he is doing business as a sole trader and is self employed (no employees), he can make contributions once he already made past contributions. Someone that I know who was working as a daily paid got retrenched, became a sole trader to do cleaning and maintenance work all by himself. He pays NIB contributions normal.

I'm subject to correction and will ask how he got thru.

Edit: Found this on NIB Website

I am the sole proprietor of a business, can I pay for myself?

If you were previously an insured person you can pay voluntary contributions. If not no.

https://www.nibtt.net/faq/cont_FAQs.html

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Re: Company I am working for refuses to pay my NIS

Postby hover11 » January 25th, 2022, 5:15 pm

DMan7 wrote:Speaking of NIS just now I feel NIS would just be a tax and we will not be getting any actual insurance when we reach 60+ years of age.
That is what it will be soon enough, contributions were supposed to increase since 2016 we are in 2022 and NIS contributions are still the same. NIB continues to spend more that it earns, the government's pyramid scheme isn't working out well , more old ppl at the top and less ppl on the ground (contributors) to support them. Some tough decisions must be made such as raising the retirement age and raising the contributions every year ,some benefits might even be eliminated as well

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