No tax on electric vehicles in T&T

[zoom rader]

Tax free concessions, in principle should always yield cost benefits to the buyer.
The question which arises with the subject matter here is, what practical or operational benefits would the owner of a electric vehicle enjoy locally.
With the almost complete absence of infrastructure etc. in the short term one wonders who really will choose to go this route at this time.
The budget provisions may be merely symbolic and a demonstration of support for the green initiatives.
At this time in T&T hybrids remain the best fit and there seems to be no acknowledgement of same by the state.

Chicken and the egg. There will be no infrastructure until there are vehicles. If I were govt I would offer some sort of tax concession to businesses and employers who make charging available to customers/staff.
Let’s not forget trinidad is small and you can reliably charge at home. While public charging is nice it isn’t necessary for our situation. No one is driving cross continent.

Agreed - charging stations are more of a convenience at shopping malls etc.
So far the charging units that have been installed by Porsche are paid for by the dealership and the light bill is handled by the location owner. So lets say they install it at the mall, the mall pays the light bill but it's an attraction for customers to charge for free while shopping, dining etc. And these work for most EVs and PHEV (plug in hybrids) as the plug socket is the same (not for Tesla though).
The majority of people will charge at home.

According to an article I read some years back, home charging would be an issue for folks without designated parking. While homeowners with driveways and car ports could set up weather and tamper proof charging, renters and similar folks who jostle for parking in the street face the challenge of running long cords to the road, then wondering if their neighborhood bamsee delivery children would unplug them in the night.

This is a failure just like Compressed natural gas .

[2WNBoost]

Taking the Toyota Prius as a yardstick for battery reliability...

https://www.torquenews.com/6626/toyota-hybrid-owners-speak-out-battery-length-and-cost

https://www.torquenews.com/8113/3-taxi-drivers-prefer-toyota-prius-over-any-other-hybrid
Some Prius cars have reported well over 500,000 miles or more before decommission.

Tesla taxi
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/advice-electric-cars/what-battery-life-electric-car

Electric car battery life

After range anxiety, battery life is one of the most common concerns for people making the jump from internal combustion-engined cars to EVs. All batteries degrade over time and with use, meaning they become less efficient as they age and, ultimately, the range of your car is reduced. Furthermore, battery technology doesn’t come cheap, and by the time the cells are in need of replacement they will cost far more to buy than the car will likely be worth - which is why we tend to replace mobile phones in their entirety rather than replace the battery pack. Yet it’s not all bad news, because there are ways to increase the lifespan of your car’s battery, keeping it healthier and more efficient for longer. More importantly, while performance may degrade over time, ultimately the cells should still be providing at least 70 percent of their capacity even after 200,000 miles. As an example, a number of Tesla Model S taxis operating from Gatwick airport racked up over 300,000 miles each over three years, with all retaining at least 82 percent of their batteries’ health.

[zoom rader]

Taking the Toyota Prius as a yardstick for battery reliability...

https://www.torquenews.com/6626/toyota-hybrid-owners-speak-out-battery-length-and-cost

https://www.torquenews.com/8113/3-taxi-drivers-prefer-toyota-prius-over-any-other-hybrid

Hybrid are not full battery karts like Tesla.

[2WNBoost]

Enjoy your fight down...

[j.o.e]

Tax free concessions, in principle should always yield cost benefits to the buyer.
The question which arises with the subject matter here is, what practical or operational benefits would the owner of a electric vehicle enjoy locally.
With the almost complete absence of infrastructure etc. in the short term one wonders who really will choose to go this route at this time.
The budget provisions may be merely symbolic and a demonstration of support for the green initiatives.
At this time in T&T hybrids remain the best fit and there seems to be no acknowledgement of same by the state.

Chicken and the egg. There will be no infrastructure until there are vehicles. If I were govt I would offer some sort of tax concession to businesses and employers who make charging available to customers/staff.
Let’s not forget trinidad is small and you can reliably charge at home. While public charging is nice it isn’t necessary for our situation. No one is driving cross continent.

Agreed - charging stations are more of a convenience at shopping malls etc.
So far the charging units that have been installed by Porsche are paid for by the dealership and the light bill is handled by the location owner. So lets say they install it at the mall, the mall pays the light bill but it's an attraction for customers to charge for free while shopping, dining etc. And these work for most EVs and PHEV (plug in hybrids) as the plug socket is the same (not for Tesla though).
The majority of people will charge at home.

According to an article I read some years back, home charging would be an issue for folks without designated parking. While homeowners with driveways and car ports could set up weather and tamper proof charging, renters and similar folks who jostle for parking in the street face the challenge of running long cords to the road, then wondering if their neighborhood bamsee delivery children would unplug them in the night.

So we shouldn’t have electric cars because some people don’t have parking spots in their yard ……… ok
You know how many American cities people don’t have designated parking and park on the street. So what ?

[eliteauto]

Enjoy your fight down...

[Les Bain]

Tax free concessions, in principle should always yield cost benefits to the buyer.
The question which arises with the subject matter here is, what practical or operational benefits would the owner of a electric vehicle enjoy locally.
With the almost complete absence of infrastructure etc. in the short term one wonders who really will choose to go this route at this time.
The budget provisions may be merely symbolic and a demonstration of support for the green initiatives.
At this time in T&T hybrids remain the best fit and there seems to be no acknowledgement of same by the state.

Chicken and the egg. There will be no infrastructure until there are vehicles. If I were govt I would offer some sort of tax concession to businesses and employers who make charging available to customers/staff.
Let’s not forget trinidad is small and you can reliably charge at home. While public charging is nice it isn’t necessary for our situation. No one is driving cross continent.

Agreed - charging stations are more of a convenience at shopping malls etc.
So far the charging units that have been installed by Porsche are paid for by the dealership and the light bill is handled by the location owner. So lets say they install it at the mall, the mall pays the light bill but it's an attraction for customers to charge for free while shopping, dining etc. And these work for most EVs and PHEV (plug in hybrids) as the plug socket is the same (not for Tesla though).
The majority of people will charge at home.

According to an article I read some years back, home charging would be an issue for folks without designated parking. While homeowners with driveways and car ports could set up weather and tamper proof charging, renters and similar folks who jostle for parking in the street face the challenge of running long cords to the road, then wondering if their neighborhood bamsee delivery children would unplug them in the night.

So we shouldn’t have electric cars because some people don’t have parking spots in their yard ……… ok
You know how many American cities people don’t have designated parking and park on the street. So what ?

Trinidadians in that position would cite that as the reason they cannot get an electric car.
What part of "should be an issue" did you interpret as a total argument against electric cars, turkeyneck?

[kamakazi]

I don't see a Tesla dealership or service centre locally... Owners were already on their own

^ a number of local companies do service and repairs on hybrid and electric vehicles including motor and battery changes.

An electric only car (EV) has less moving parts and less things to repair. The suspension, brakes etc are the same if not very similar to a hybrid or internal combustion engine car.

There are locations with free charging too. Brentwood Unipet gas station has two charging bays, there’s one on Wrightson Road, two at Hilton, soon WestMall, Gulf City and C3 - all offering free charging. I’m not sure what the rate is at the new NP service center in Preysal on the Couva flyover.

The moment you tamper with a Tesla you are on your own .

[zoom rader]

Enjoy your fight down...

I only pointing out the negatives same as with the other con job of solar.

[Les Bain]

I wouldn't mind an electric vehicle. Except for Tesla, they moved past looking like a redesigned Apple mouse which is nice. Also, not having to deal with ICE maintenance for a while would be a plus.

[zoom rader]

I don't see a Tesla dealership or service centre locally... Owners were already on their own

^ a number of local companies do service and repairs on hybrid and electric vehicles including motor and battery changes.

An electric only car (EV) has less moving parts and less things to repair. The suspension, brakes etc are the same if not very similar to a hybrid or internal combustion engine car.

There are locations with free charging too. Brentwood Unipet gas station has two charging bays, there’s one on Wrightson Road, two at Hilton, soon WestMall, Gulf City and C3 - all offering free charging. I’m not sure what the rate is at the new NP service center in Preysal on the Couva flyover.

The moment you tamper with a Tesla you are on your own .

Maybe a Tesla dealership will come to Trini.

Until then be very careful if going into electric karts. In the long run it's not cost effective and happy charging it .

[zoom rader]

I wouldn't mind an electric vehicle. Except for Tesla, they moved past looking like a redesigned Apple mouse which is nice. Also, not having to deal with ICE maintenance for a while would be a plus.

The lithium miners will call all the shots on the pricing and its going into a monopoly. They will control the sale of lithium and batteries will not be cheap.

[zoom rader]

Idiots are easy to be fooled all this talk about saving the planet on green house gasses is a sham.

Solar power is a sham as to make the panels themselves emits green house gasses plus the power used to make it

Then you have lithium batteries which are dangerous as they come, they can catch a fire very easily and also emits more green house gasses and a massive carbon footprint.

Lots of uninformed idiots

https://www.industryweek.com/technology ... -footprint

[Les Bain]

I wouldn't mind an electric vehicle. Except for Tesla, they moved past looking like a redesigned Apple mouse which is nice. Also, not having to deal with ICE maintenance for a while would be a plus.

The lithium miners will call all the shots on the pricing and its going into a monopoly. They will control the sale of lithium and batteries will not be cheap.

Most likely I'm way off here, but it seems like a sustained win for the auto industry. The projected savings an electric owner would get, having moved on from ICE engine and transmission maintenance would now be spent in one shot on a battery (with no cheaper aftermarket option in sight). Someone correct me, please.

[zoom rader]

I wouldn't mind an electric vehicle. Except for Tesla, they moved past looking like a redesigned Apple mouse which is nice. Also, not having to deal with ICE maintenance for a while would be a plus.

The lithium miners will call all the shots on the pricing and its going into a monopoly. They will control the sale of lithium and batteries will not be cheap.

Most likely I'm way off here, but it seems like a sustained win for the auto industry. The projected savings an electric owner would get, having moved on from ICE engine and transmission maintenance would now be spent in one shot on a battery (with no cheaper aftermarket option in sight). Someone correct me, please.

https://www.ctechigroup.com/the-lithium-battery-industry-will-move-towards-a-monopoly-in-the-future

There's hugh push for electric karts but it's one massive sham

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Tesla Model S battery = 100kWh
T&TEC Residential Rate = $0.37 per kWh

Cost to fully charge = 100 x 0.37 = $37
Adding 15% efficiency loss = 15 x 0.37 = $5.55
Total Cost = $37 + $5.55 = $42.55

Less than a full tank of gas even if electricity rates are doubled

That's for now, wait in 5 years time when rates are x 4. Plus cost of replacing lithium batteries is not cheap.

It's a massive con job

You must have penned a scathing op-ed in the Gazette berating the Governor when they introduced gasoline cars in T&T

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Tax free concessions, in principle should always yield cost benefits to the buyer.
The question which arises with the subject matter here is, what practical or operational benefits would the owner of a electric vehicle enjoy locally.
With the almost complete absence of infrastructure etc. in the short term one wonders who really will choose to go this route at this time.
The budget provisions may be merely symbolic and a demonstration of support for the green initiatives.
At this time in T&T hybrids remain the best fit and there seems to be no acknowledgement of same by the state.

Chicken and the egg. There will be no infrastructure until there are vehicles. If I were govt I would offer some sort of tax concession to businesses and employers who make charging available to customers/staff.
Let’s not forget trinidad is small and you can reliably charge at home. While public charging is nice it isn’t necessary for our situation. No one is driving cross continent.

Agreed - charging stations are more of a convenience at shopping malls etc.
So far the charging units that have been installed by Porsche are paid for by the dealership and the light bill is handled by the location owner. So lets say they install it at the mall, the mall pays the light bill but it's an attraction for customers to charge for free while shopping, dining etc. And these work for most EVs and PHEV (plug in hybrids) as the plug socket is the same (not for Tesla though).
The majority of people will charge at home.

According to an article I read some years back, home charging would be an issue for folks without designated parking. While homeowners with driveways and car ports could set up weather and tamper proof charging, renters and similar folks who jostle for parking in the street face the challenge of running long cords to the road, then wondering if their neighborhood bamsee delivery children would unplug them in the night.

Most electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids automatically lock the plug port in place when charging to prevent someone from disconnecting the plug while it's charging. You have to unlock the vehicle in order to remove the plug even after it's finished charging.

But yes parking in the street, renters, apartment dwellers etc would have issues

[zoom rader]

Tesla Model S battery = 100kWh
T&TEC Residential Rate = $0.37 per kWh

Cost to fully charge = 100 x 0.37 = $37
Adding 15% efficiency loss = 15 x 0.37 = $5.55
Total Cost = $37 + $5.55 = $42.55

Less than a full tank of gas even if electricity rates are doubled

That's for now, wait in 5 years time when rates are x 4. Plus cost of replacing lithium batteries is not cheap.

It's a massive con job

You must have penned a scathing op-ed in the Gazette berating the Governor when they introduced gasoline cars in T&T

You have to be some kinda Tuntun.

You going on the tuner idiot award in front of eliteauto-tuntun

[carluva]

Just like there are backsides who park in handicapped parking spots, there'll be backsides who park in vehicle charging spots.

So wait u can get a full charge for free?

Yes it’s free.
However it takes a couple hours to get a full charge, which is why they are looking to locate them at Malls etc

Porsche just set up two free chargers at Hilton with plans to set up more at WestMall, C3 and Gulf City.
https://www.trinituner.com/v4/first-por ... nd-tobago/

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Tesla Model S battery = 100kWh
T&TEC Residential Rate = $0.37 per kWh

Cost to fully charge = 100 x 0.37 = $37
Adding 15% efficiency loss = 15 x 0.37 = $5.55
Total Cost = $37 + $5.55 = $42.55

Less than a full tank of gas even if electricity rates are doubled

That's for now, wait in 5 years time when rates are x 4. Plus cost of replacing lithium batteries is not cheap.

It's a massive con job

You must have penned a scathing op-ed in the Gazette berating the Governor when they introduced gasoline cars in T&T

You have to be some kinda Tuntun.

You going on the tuner idiot award in front of eliteauto-tuntun

LOL
As 2WNBoost wrote: Enjoy your fight down

[redmanjp]

If limited charging stations would be an issue for a few years why were taxes not removed from hybrids as well?

Not even plugin hybrids?

[Kenjo]

My carburetor still working good In my galant

[toyolink]

Would there be issues with charging station specifications.
My understanding is that in the USA the standard for all electric vehicles is the std 2 level station.
However, it seems that requirements may differ globally depending on brand and country of origin.

[zoom rader]

Tesla Model S battery = 100kWh
T&TEC Residential Rate = $0.37 per kWh

Cost to fully charge = 100 x 0.37 = $37
Adding 15% efficiency loss = 15 x 0.37 = $5.55
Total Cost = $37 + $5.55 = $42.55

Less than a full tank of gas even if electricity rates are doubled

That's for now, wait in 5 years time when rates are x 4. Plus cost of replacing lithium batteries is not cheap.

It's a massive con job

You must have penned a scathing op-ed in the Gazette berating the Governor when they introduced gasoline cars in T&T

You have to be some kinda Tuntun.

You going on the tuner idiot award in front of eliteauto-tuntun

LOL
As 2WNBoost wrote: Enjoy your fight down

Has nothing to do with a fight down

It's the con side of buying and keeping electric karts.

So far none of you idiots have proven otherwise

[zoom rader]

If limited charging stations would be an issue for a few years why were taxes not removed from hybrids as well?

Not even plugin hybrids?

Trinidad has pushed CNG and they failed .

It's gonna be the same the electric karts

[kamakazi]

I see the discussion here is more energetic.

So a couple of questions

1. Anyone knows how EVs handle surges or low voltage.

2. Can our electricity grid handle the increased demand of people switching to EVs.


@ Les Bain
Some EVs still have a transmission, differential and/or tranaxle that still requires servicing.
I know Tesla still requires gear oil... But I don't think it is user serviceable.

[sMASH]

I see the discussion here is more energetic.

So a couple of questions

1. Anyone knows how EVs handle surges or low voltage.

2. Can our electricity grid handle the increased demand of people switching to EVs.

Hopefully the charge station has regulators/line conditioners to mitigate fluctuations.


Grid.... Hmmmm. Not sure if tgu was designed with extra capacity... But before, ttec was struggling to match supply with demand.

If they have to make another supply site, not sure we have the natgss to supply it.


As the fuel the electric wl replace, is super and premium... Which are imported.


But if natgss availability is a problem, I pretty sure, jackass and dem will sign a deal to use methanol to fuel the power station.
So, the methanol producers will reduce supplying America, and supply local market.

So, we will extract natgas, to sell to menthol companies , to buy it back as methanol, to burn for electricity.

Instead of telling the methsnol producers to rock so and but thr nst gas directly in the turbines.

[pugboy]

I think they say most charging is either a 30amp or higher rater 50amp.
pulling 40+amp 220v continuous could have an effect on the property supply if marginal
some streets might need to upgrade their transformers etc

I see the discussion here is more energetic.

So a couple of questions

1. Anyone knows how EVs handle surges or low voltage.

2. Can our electricity grid handle the increased demand of people switching to EVs.


@ Les Bain
Some EVs still have a transmission, differential and/or tranaxle that still requires servicing.
I know Tesla still requires gear oil... But I don't think it is user serviceable.

[aidan]

This i wouldn't mind seeing more of

[st7]

zoom, what is your solution then? what options should be entertained instead of electric vehicles?