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Ben_spanna wrote:if youre buying New then i can tell you, the Niro is rather inexpensive to maintain for the first 2 years and counting , Kias service is quite affordable and they just change the fluids and check the usual .. its been a very good car thus far... there is a difference between the clutches in the Ioniq and the Niro however that you can research online.
They both drive very similarly , however if cargo space means anything to you on a regular basis then the Niro would be the better choice as well having additional ground clearance over the Ioniq for our days with more than ample rainfall and flooding.
It is recommended to use the Super Gas and use a treatment every few fill ups which usually maintain the 850+ kms to a tank. ( USualy will vary from 820kms- 960kms a tank depending on how i drive)
Have not had any of those battery issues that you described above but then again these are cars from NEw and not 3 or 4 year foreign used Aquas.
The only thing that you can get locally Hybrid thats available used would be the X-trail but have heard that several of the hybrids come with transmission problems
Im comparison to having had an older Diesel Nissan previously that constantly requires maintenance this car has bee the most affordable/trouble free car I have driven to date.
Musical Doc wrote:TBH, i got 762km off a tank from my aqua... but i think these savings are offset by maintenance cost. Mechanics charge for extra things like cleaning the hybrid battery fan and doing a life expectancy test , bus bars on the battery are recommended to be changed every 2 years, the agm battery is a bit more expensive than a regular battery but supposed to last longer. I see some recommending that hybrid batteries be reconditioned/balanced to extend the life of it which is a process that takes a couple days to do properly so you may have to leave your car by the mechanic or if he puts a replacement battery pack for u to use while yours is being reconditioned. But not sure how often this should be done. I'm also seeing that these newer vehicles need an advanced scan tool to bleed brakes... something which is not recommended to do old school. So while u saving on gas, you pretty much have to go to a mechanic to get certain things done, while with older/normal cars you can mostly maintain yourself. I personally may look for a straight gas vehicle to buy next time.
SPK1983 wrote:Musical Doc wrote:TBH, i got 762km off a tank from my aqua... but i think these savings are offset by maintenance cost. Mechanics charge for extra things like cleaning the hybrid battery fan and doing a life expectancy test , bus bars on the battery are recommended to be changed every 2 years, the agm battery is a bit more expensive than a regular battery but supposed to last longer. I see some recommending that hybrid batteries be reconditioned/balanced to extend the life of it which is a process that takes a couple days to do properly so you may have to leave your car by the mechanic or if he puts a replacement battery pack for u to use while yours is being reconditioned. But not sure how often this should be done. I'm also seeing that these newer vehicles need an advanced scan tool to bleed brakes... something which is not recommended to do old school. So while u saving on gas, you pretty much have to go to a mechanic to get certain things done, while with older/normal cars you can mostly maintain yourself. I personally may look for a straight gas vehicle to buy next time.
You have some correct points, but also some other things to consider is that maintenance is required to be done less often (8-10 thousand km per service is the general standard). Hybrid battery fan cleaning is virtually user-serviceable, the hardest thing to do in the process is to put the clips back in at the end. Life expectancy tests can be performed with a ~$200 OBD II scanner and a few USD for the mobile app. Scan twice and you've recouped your money. The truly biggest difference is you have to (eventually) budget for the replacement of the HV battery, which can be well upwards of 10k. While it is true that you may need to go to a mechanic, it's not exactly a frequent requirement.
Just by comparison, my last vehicle (AD wagon) used to cost me easily more than $6k per year in maintenance. I've had my Aqua for almost 20 months and have not crossed $4500 in maintenance, which also included at first a replacement of all fluids, new spark plugs etc. Of course, even when budgeting for a new AGM battery and HV battery reconditioning to be done within the next 6 months, that would bring my total maintenance to just over $7k.
Musical Doc wrote:SPK1983 wrote:Musical Doc wrote:TBH, i got 762km off a tank from my aqua... but i think these savings are offset by maintenance cost. Mechanics charge for extra things like cleaning the hybrid battery fan and doing a life expectancy test , bus bars on the battery are recommended to be changed every 2 years, the agm battery is a bit more expensive than a regular battery but supposed to last longer. I see some recommending that hybrid batteries be reconditioned/balanced to extend the life of it which is a process that takes a couple days to do properly so you may have to leave your car by the mechanic or if he puts a replacement battery pack for u to use while yours is being reconditioned. But not sure how often this should be done. I'm also seeing that these newer vehicles need an advanced scan tool to bleed brakes... something which is not recommended to do old school. So while u saving on gas, you pretty much have to go to a mechanic to get certain things done, while with older/normal cars you can mostly maintain yourself. I personally may look for a straight gas vehicle to buy next time.
You have some correct points, but also some other things to consider is that maintenance is required to be done less often (8-10 thousand km per service is the general standard). Hybrid battery fan cleaning is virtually user-serviceable, the hardest thing to do in the process is to put the clips back in at the end. Life expectancy tests can be performed with a ~$200 OBD II scanner and a few USD for the mobile app. Scan twice and you've recouped your money. The truly biggest difference is you have to (eventually) budget for the replacement of the HV battery, which can be well upwards of 10k. While it is true that you may need to go to a mechanic, it's not exactly a frequent requirement.
Just by comparison, my last vehicle (AD wagon) used to cost me easily more than $6k per year in maintenance. I've had my Aqua for almost 20 months and have not crossed $4500 in maintenance, which also included at first a replacement of all fluids, new spark plugs etc. Of course, even when budgeting for a new AGM battery and HV battery reconditioning to be done within the next 6 months, that would bring my total maintenance to just over $7k.
AD cost so much? Nah man I have a tiida for 10 yrs now an that used to cost me maybe about 3-4k for the year maintenance. I used to service it myself and I used to make 10k in 3 months so is 4 oil changes for the year lol. Since I got the aqua the tiida does less runs now lol
Musical Doc wrote:SPK1983 wrote:Musical Doc wrote:TBH, i got 762km off a tank from my aqua... but i think these savings are offset by maintenance cost. Mechanics charge for extra things like cleaning the hybrid battery fan and doing a life expectancy test , bus bars on the battery are recommended to be changed every 2 years, the agm battery is a bit more expensive than a regular battery but supposed to last longer. I see some recommending that hybrid batteries be reconditioned/balanced to extend the life of it which is a process that takes a couple days to do properly so you may have to leave your car by the mechanic or if he puts a replacement battery pack for u to use while yours is being reconditioned. But not sure how often this should be done. I'm also seeing that these newer vehicles need an advanced scan tool to bleed brakes... something which is not recommended to do old school. So while u saving on gas, you pretty much have to go to a mechanic to get certain things done, while with older/normal cars you can mostly maintain yourself. I personally may look for a straight gas vehicle to buy next time.
You have some correct points, but also some other things to consider is that maintenance is required to be done less often (8-10 thousand km per service is the general standard). Hybrid battery fan cleaning is virtually user-serviceable, the hardest thing to do in the process is to put the clips back in at the end. Life expectancy tests can be performed with a ~$200 OBD II scanner and a few USD for the mobile app. Scan twice and you've recouped your money. The truly biggest difference is you have to (eventually) budget for the replacement of the HV battery, which can be well upwards of 10k. While it is true that you may need to go to a mechanic, it's not exactly a frequent requirement.
Just by comparison, my last vehicle (AD wagon) used to cost me easily more than $6k per year in maintenance. I've had my Aqua for almost 20 months and have not crossed $4500 in maintenance, which also included at first a replacement of all fluids, new spark plugs etc. Of course, even when budgeting for a new AGM battery and HV battery reconditioning to be done within the next 6 months, that would bring my total maintenance to just over $7k.
AD cost so much? Nah man I have a tiida for 10 yrs now an that used to cost me maybe about 3-4k for the year maintenance. I used to service it myself and I used to make 10k in 3 months so is 4 oil changes for the year lol. Since I got the aqua the tiida does less runs now lol
Musical Doc wrote:SPK1983 wrote:Musical Doc wrote:TBH, i got 762km off a tank from my aqua... but i think these savings are offset by maintenance cost. Mechanics charge for extra things like cleaning the hybrid battery fan and doing a life expectancy test , bus bars on the battery are recommended to be changed every 2 years, the agm battery is a bit more expensive than a regular battery but supposed to last longer. I see some recommending that hybrid batteries be reconditioned/balanced to extend the life of it which is a process that takes a couple days to do properly so you may have to leave your car by the mechanic or if he puts a replacement battery pack for u to use while yours is being reconditioned. But not sure how often this should be done. I'm also seeing that these newer vehicles need an advanced scan tool to bleed brakes... something which is not recommended to do old school. So while u saving on gas, you pretty much have to go to a mechanic to get certain things done, while with older/normal cars you can mostly maintain yourself. I personally may look for a straight gas vehicle to buy next time.
You have some correct points, but also some other things to consider is that maintenance is required to be done less often (8-10 thousand km per service is the general standard). Hybrid battery fan cleaning is virtually user-serviceable, the hardest thing to do in the process is to put the clips back in at the end. Life expectancy tests can be performed with a ~$200 OBD II scanner and a few USD for the mobile app. Scan twice and you've recouped your money. The truly biggest difference is you have to (eventually) budget for the replacement of the HV battery, which can be well upwards of 10k. While it is true that you may need to go to a mechanic, it's not exactly a frequent requirement.
Just by comparison, my last vehicle (AD wagon) used to cost me easily more than $6k per year in maintenance. I've had my Aqua for almost 20 months and have not crossed $4500 in maintenance, which also included at first a replacement of all fluids, new spark plugs etc. Of course, even when budgeting for a new AGM battery and HV battery reconditioning to be done within the next 6 months, that would bring my total maintenance to just over $7k.
AD cost so much? Nah man I have a tiida for 10 yrs now an that used to cost me maybe about 3-4k for the year maintenance. I used to service it myself and I used to make 10k in 3 months so is 4 oil changes for the year lol. Since I got the aqua the tiida does less runs now lol
Bimmerhead wrote:Can someone shed some light into the long term cost of ownership for hybrid/electric vehicles please.
I ask because i am seeing Hyundai Ioniqs that boasts 800+ Kilo per fill up selling for <130k regularly, and with the uncertainty surrounding fuel prices i am considering switching.
Understanding, one area of cost saved usually incurs another down the road (diesel, with maintenance and diesel quality locally).
Essentially my questions are;
1) Are there any Electric/Hybrid specific expenses that may offset the money saved through improved fuel economy?
2) Is the Kia Niro (roughly 175k used) a significantly better vehicle to warrant the higher price vs the Ioniq (roughly 130k used)? i know this is subjective but im sure people are wondering so lets discuss.
3) What are real time km/l ratings (Prius, Aqua, Fielder Hybrid, Ioniq, Lexus CT, all owners welcomed)
N.B. I am personally looking at the Ioniq vs Niro, but all other owners are welcomed because i am also interested to know why something like a Toyota Prius sells so reasonably in the used car market.
SPK1983 wrote:Musical Doc wrote:SPK1983 wrote:Musical Doc wrote:TBH, i got 762km off a tank from my aqua... but i think these savings are offset by maintenance cost. Mechanics charge for extra things like cleaning the hybrid battery fan and doing a life expectancy test , bus bars on the battery are recommended to be changed every 2 years, the agm battery is a bit more expensive than a regular battery but supposed to last longer. I see some recommending that hybrid batteries be reconditioned/balanced to extend the life of it which is a process that takes a couple days to do properly so you may have to leave your car by the mechanic or if he puts a replacement battery pack for u to use while yours is being reconditioned. But not sure how often this should be done. I'm also seeing that these newer vehicles need an advanced scan tool to bleed brakes... something which is not recommended to do old school. So while u saving on gas, you pretty much have to go to a mechanic to get certain things done, while with older/normal cars you can mostly maintain yourself. I personally may look for a straight gas vehicle to buy next time.
You have some correct points, but also some other things to consider is that maintenance is required to be done less often (8-10 thousand km per service is the general standard). Hybrid battery fan cleaning is virtually user-serviceable, the hardest thing to do in the process is to put the clips back in at the end. Life expectancy tests can be performed with a ~$200 OBD II scanner and a few USD for the mobile app. Scan twice and you've recouped your money. The truly biggest difference is you have to (eventually) budget for the replacement of the HV battery, which can be well upwards of 10k. While it is true that you may need to go to a mechanic, it's not exactly a frequent requirement.
Just by comparison, my last vehicle (AD wagon) used to cost me easily more than $6k per year in maintenance. I've had my Aqua for almost 20 months and have not crossed $4500 in maintenance, which also included at first a replacement of all fluids, new spark plugs etc. Of course, even when budgeting for a new AGM battery and HV battery reconditioning to be done within the next 6 months, that would bring my total maintenance to just over $7k.
AD cost so much? Nah man I have a tiida for 10 yrs now an that used to cost me maybe about 3-4k for the year maintenance. I used to service it myself and I used to make 10k in 3 months so is 4 oil changes for the year lol. Since I got the aqua the tiida does less runs now lol
With our bad roads and whatnot, the parts for AD was cheap at a time, but didn't last. I'm no mechanic, so I would have to rely on a mechanic anyway for servicing (so my figures factor in labour costs, which you seem to be not counting - that 4500 on the aqua is also labour inclusive). My wagon served me for 17 years before I sold it to buy my Aqua.
The Bamboo Online wrote:I brought a 2007 Prius for $1000USD in 2018 still have it. Thing is bullet proof So far all have had to do on it is change oil and tires and a wheel bearing. Various Light bulbs. Wipers. Change Spark plugs once but they last long time as the engine isn’t always running. Only one drive belt to worry about and it running the water pump newer models have electrical water pumps
It also Does not have a transmission as the motors emulate a CVT. So no expensive transmission fluids to dump. It does at least have a diff which does not need regular maintenance or fluid changes to keep working.
The hybrid battery can last a extremely long time if you recondition it at most once a year. I brought the tools to do this and I make extra money on the side doing this for other hybrid owners.
The 12v battery found in these cars are over kill. The only reason they are in the car is to power the computers when you hit the power button and then the power voltage inverter takes over. I replaced mine which was 11 years old when it failed with a $20 lawnmower battery which is same size as the stock battery and has survived 2 winters so far.
These cars does not use its brakes as it will use the motors for regenerative brakes. NYC cab drivers who use them say they driven for years before needing brake jobs. You don’t need to bleed the brakes at all but once you mess with the brakes to switch out pads on these cars the regen brakes gets disabled so you can test the friction brakes automatically. After you test it out you need a expensive tool to reset it or you could use a cheap paperclip instead.
Car has almost 350k miles on it now. I don’t think I will sell it any time soon.
QFT...... Interesting note, Mazda licensed the Toyota hybrid system and paired it with the 2 liter skyactiv engine in the Mazda 3 since 2014. I have one going on 5 years now. Regular fluid change and battery maintenance. Still on stock brake pads.....80k KMS. In terms of range....820 KMS...or as much as 20l per 100 km. Will recommend hybrid or electric anytime to anyone. I'm just waiting for EV prices to fall enough for me to make the jump.The Bamboo Online wrote:The Toyota Prius does not have a regular transmission like you would find in any other car. There is no Mechanical connection like in a gearbox or hydraulic connection like in a automatic transmission to the wheels. It is a unique transmission that utilizes a motor and a generator whose roles can be reversed which act like a CVT. Unlike a conventional transmission that has far more many parts, the engine in the Prius is connected to the wheels simply by a power cable running from the motor/generator which is bolted to the engine to the motor/generator that’s bolted to the diff. These motor generators, are submerged in a special fluid called Toyota World Standard or WS as you call it… It is non-conductive and protects the motor stators from overheating and shorting out. So Since the fluid is not under any stress other than heating up it doesn’t need to be changed out at all. But Toyota took high road and suggested that it be changed to protect itself and not the car.
The Bamboo Online wrote:The Toyota Prius does not have a regular transmission like you would find in any other car. There is no Mechanical connection like in a gearbox or hydraulic connection like in a automatic transmission to the wheels. It is a unique transmission that utilizes a motor and a generator whose roles can be reversed which act like a CVT. Unlike a conventional transmission that has far more many parts, the engine in the Prius is connected to the wheels simply by a power cable running from the motor/generator which is bolted to the engine to the motor/generator that’s bolted to the diff. These motor generators, are submerged in a special fluid called Toyota World Standard or WS as you call it… It is non-conductive and protects the motor stators from overheating and shorting out. So Since the fluid is not under any stress other than heating up it doesn’t need to be changed out at all. But Toyota took high road and suggested that it be changed to protect itself and not the car.
Bimmerhead wrote:Appreciate the conversation guys.
To answer the question above i drive a Suzuki Grand Vitara that returns 10-11 km/l on a good day which translates to roughly 440KM on a $200 full up. Considering factors such as maintenaince and age i cannot fault it however i am lusting on those 800-1000km i hear from those EV/Hybrids as my daily East - West commute drinks alot.
I regularly drive a Honda HRV (Not Hybrid Vezel) and that usually returns 12.5 - 14km/l dependent on driving conditions. So initially my upgrade was suppose to be a Vezel Hybrid hoping to get better fuel economy however upon reading about transmission woos in another tread that desire died immediately and i settled on the Ioniq and Niro.
Where a 'regular' #car fire is a matter of extinguishing and towing, a fire in a #hybrid car is a much more complicated job. That was confirmed again yesterday when we were called for #smokedevelopment in a hybrid vehicle in #Leuven.
Arrived at the scene we found a strong smoke development, which pointed to the battery's thermal runaway '. This creates when the temperature of a battery cell rises considerably. Soon after arrival there were already flames visible. After knocking down the flames, we have refrigerated the vehicle abundantly and placed it in a special #waterdipping container.
After all, a battery that is damaged can catch fire again even after abundant cooling due to a chemical reaction in the battery. To stop this reaction it is necessary to cool the battery for a long time. For this we therefore use a special container in which the vehicle can be immersed for an extended period of time.
The container was placed in a remote parking lot. As soon as the vehicle has completely cooled down, a branch service will remove it from the container and transport it towards scrap dealer. Not for the sake of immersion, but because a car like this is completely destroyed when the battery catches on fire anyway.
There was also some attention for the extinguishing water. After all, it was contaminated and we couldn't just let it run away. It was collected in underground rainwater tanks and will be checked before processing.
https://www.facebook.com/hvzoost/photos ... 588968252/
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:No need to panic but this can happen - just like a gasoline or oil fire in a internal combustion car
But interesting technique non the lessWhere a 'regular' #car fire is a matter of extinguishing and towing, a fire in a #hybrid car is a much more complicated job. That was confirmed again yesterday when we were called for #smokedevelopment in a hybrid vehicle in #Leuven.
Arrived at the scene we found a strong smoke development, which pointed to the battery's thermal runaway '. This creates when the temperature of a battery cell rises considerably. Soon after arrival there were already flames visible. After knocking down the flames, we have refrigerated the vehicle abundantly and placed it in a special #waterdipping container.
After all, a battery that is damaged can catch fire again even after abundant cooling due to a chemical reaction in the battery. To stop this reaction it is necessary to cool the battery for a long time. For this we therefore use a special container in which the vehicle can be immersed for an extended period of time.
The container was placed in a remote parking lot. As soon as the vehicle has completely cooled down, a branch service will remove it from the container and transport it towards scrap dealer. Not for the sake of immersion, but because a car like this is completely destroyed when the battery catches on fire anyway.
There was also some attention for the extinguishing water. After all, it was contaminated and we couldn't just let it run away. It was collected in underground rainwater tanks and will be checked before processing.
237205274_1546965602301584_2208073132042489688_n.jpg
239616479_1546965605634917_2335225150950103122_n.jpg
https://www.facebook.com/hvzoost/photos ... 588968252/
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