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Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

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Bimmerhead
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Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Bimmerhead » August 24th, 2021, 12:56 pm

Can someone shed some light into the long term cost of ownership for hybrid/electric vehicles please.

I ask because i am seeing Hyundai Ioniqs that boasts 800+ Kilo per fill up selling for <130k regularly, and with the uncertainty surrounding fuel prices i am considering switching.

Understanding, one area of cost saved usually incurs another down the road (diesel, with maintenance and diesel quality locally).

Essentially my questions are;

1) Are there any Electric/Hybrid specific expenses that may offset the money saved through improved fuel economy?

2) Is the Kia Niro (roughly 175k used) a significantly better vehicle to warrant the higher price vs the Ioniq (roughly 130k used)? i know this is subjective but im sure people are wondering so lets discuss.

3) What are real time km/l ratings (Prius, Aqua, Fielder Hybrid, Ioniq, Lexus CT, all owners welcomed)

N.B. I am personally looking at the Ioniq vs Niro, but all other owners are welcomed because i am also interested to know why something like a Toyota Prius sells so reasonably in the used car market.

Musical Doc
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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Musical Doc » August 24th, 2021, 1:30 pm

TBH, i got 762km off a tank from my aqua... but i think these savings are offset by maintenance cost. Mechanics charge for extra things like cleaning the hybrid battery fan and doing a life expectancy test , bus bars on the battery are recommended to be changed every 2 years, the agm battery is a bit more expensive than a regular battery but supposed to last longer. I see some recommending that hybrid batteries be reconditioned/balanced to extend the life of it which is a process that takes a couple days to do properly so you may have to leave your car by the mechanic or if he puts a replacement battery pack for u to use while yours is being reconditioned. But not sure how often this should be done. I'm also seeing that these newer vehicles need an advanced scan tool to bleed brakes... something which is not recommended to do old school. So while u saving on gas, you pretty much have to go to a mechanic to get certain things done, while with older/normal cars you can mostly maintain yourself. I personally may look for a straight gas vehicle to buy next time.

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Ben_spanna » August 24th, 2021, 2:23 pm

if youre buying New then i can tell you, the Niro is rather inexpensive to maintain for the first 2 years and counting , Kias service is quite affordable and they just change the fluids and check the usual .. its been a very good car thus far... there is a difference between the clutches in the Ioniq and the Niro however that you can research online.

They both drive very similarly , however if cargo space means anything to you on a regular basis then the Niro would be the better choice as well having additional ground clearance over the Ioniq for our days with more than ample rainfall and flooding.

It is recommended to use the Super Gas and use a treatment every few fill ups which usually maintain the 850+ kms to a tank. ( USualy will vary from 820kms- 960kms a tank depending on how i drive)
Have not had any of those battery issues that you described above but then again these are cars from NEw and not 3 or 4 year foreign used Aquas.
The only thing that you can get locally Hybrid thats available used would be the X-trail but have heard that several of the hybrids come with transmission problems

Im comparison to having had an older Diesel Nissan previously that constantly requires maintenance this car has bee the most affordable/trouble free car I have driven to date.

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Musical Doc » August 24th, 2021, 2:34 pm

Ben_spanna wrote:if youre buying New then i can tell you, the Niro is rather inexpensive to maintain for the first 2 years and counting , Kias service is quite affordable and they just change the fluids and check the usual .. its been a very good car thus far... there is a difference between the clutches in the Ioniq and the Niro however that you can research online.

They both drive very similarly , however if cargo space means anything to you on a regular basis then the Niro would be the better choice as well having additional ground clearance over the Ioniq for our days with more than ample rainfall and flooding.

It is recommended to use the Super Gas and use a treatment every few fill ups which usually maintain the 850+ kms to a tank. ( USualy will vary from 820kms- 960kms a tank depending on how i drive)
Have not had any of those battery issues that you described above but then again these are cars from NEw and not 3 or 4 year foreign used Aquas.
The only thing that you can get locally Hybrid thats available used would be the X-trail but have heard that several of the hybrids come with transmission problems

Im comparison to having had an older Diesel Nissan previously that constantly requires maintenance this car has bee the most affordable/trouble free car I have driven to date.


Nice review bro. I think any brand new vehicle will be relatively trouble free for the first 5 years and after that may have normal wear and tear issues. I'm on the aqua fb group and the amount of problems I'm seeing would be quite a turn off, but you have to keep in mind that some these vehicles are like 5 yrs old at least. I bought a 2018 model so no issues so far but in the next 2 years I may have some money to spend lol

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby SPK1983 » August 24th, 2021, 3:19 pm

Musical Doc wrote:TBH, i got 762km off a tank from my aqua... but i think these savings are offset by maintenance cost. Mechanics charge for extra things like cleaning the hybrid battery fan and doing a life expectancy test , bus bars on the battery are recommended to be changed every 2 years, the agm battery is a bit more expensive than a regular battery but supposed to last longer. I see some recommending that hybrid batteries be reconditioned/balanced to extend the life of it which is a process that takes a couple days to do properly so you may have to leave your car by the mechanic or if he puts a replacement battery pack for u to use while yours is being reconditioned. But not sure how often this should be done. I'm also seeing that these newer vehicles need an advanced scan tool to bleed brakes... something which is not recommended to do old school. So while u saving on gas, you pretty much have to go to a mechanic to get certain things done, while with older/normal cars you can mostly maintain yourself. I personally may look for a straight gas vehicle to buy next time.


You have some correct points, but also some other things to consider is that maintenance is required to be done less often (8-10 thousand km per service is the general standard). Hybrid battery fan cleaning is virtually user-serviceable, the hardest thing to do in the process is to put the clips back in at the end. Life expectancy tests can be performed with a ~$200 OBD II scanner and a few USD for the mobile app. Scan twice and you've recouped your money. The truly biggest difference is you have to (eventually) budget for the replacement of the HV battery, which can be well upwards of 10k. While it is true that you may need to go to a mechanic, it's not exactly a frequent requirement.

Just by comparison, my last vehicle (AD wagon) used to cost me easily more than $6k per year in maintenance. I've had my Aqua for almost 20 months and have not crossed $4500 in maintenance, which also included at first a replacement of all fluids, new spark plugs etc. Of course, even when budgeting for a new AGM battery and HV battery reconditioning to be done within the next 6 months, that would bring my total maintenance to just over $7k.

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Musical Doc » August 24th, 2021, 3:55 pm

SPK1983 wrote:
Musical Doc wrote:TBH, i got 762km off a tank from my aqua... but i think these savings are offset by maintenance cost. Mechanics charge for extra things like cleaning the hybrid battery fan and doing a life expectancy test , bus bars on the battery are recommended to be changed every 2 years, the agm battery is a bit more expensive than a regular battery but supposed to last longer. I see some recommending that hybrid batteries be reconditioned/balanced to extend the life of it which is a process that takes a couple days to do properly so you may have to leave your car by the mechanic or if he puts a replacement battery pack for u to use while yours is being reconditioned. But not sure how often this should be done. I'm also seeing that these newer vehicles need an advanced scan tool to bleed brakes... something which is not recommended to do old school. So while u saving on gas, you pretty much have to go to a mechanic to get certain things done, while with older/normal cars you can mostly maintain yourself. I personally may look for a straight gas vehicle to buy next time.


You have some correct points, but also some other things to consider is that maintenance is required to be done less often (8-10 thousand km per service is the general standard). Hybrid battery fan cleaning is virtually user-serviceable, the hardest thing to do in the process is to put the clips back in at the end. Life expectancy tests can be performed with a ~$200 OBD II scanner and a few USD for the mobile app. Scan twice and you've recouped your money. The truly biggest difference is you have to (eventually) budget for the replacement of the HV battery, which can be well upwards of 10k. While it is true that you may need to go to a mechanic, it's not exactly a frequent requirement.

Just by comparison, my last vehicle (AD wagon) used to cost me easily more than $6k per year in maintenance. I've had my Aqua for almost 20 months and have not crossed $4500 in maintenance, which also included at first a replacement of all fluids, new spark plugs etc. Of course, even when budgeting for a new AGM battery and HV battery reconditioning to be done within the next 6 months, that would bring my total maintenance to just over $7k.


AD cost so much? Nah man I have a tiida for 10 yrs now an that used to cost me maybe about 3-4k for the year maintenance. I used to service it myself and I used to make 10k in 3 months so is 4 oil changes for the year lol. Since I got the aqua the tiida does less runs now lol

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby SPK1983 » August 24th, 2021, 9:32 pm

Musical Doc wrote:
SPK1983 wrote:
Musical Doc wrote:TBH, i got 762km off a tank from my aqua... but i think these savings are offset by maintenance cost. Mechanics charge for extra things like cleaning the hybrid battery fan and doing a life expectancy test , bus bars on the battery are recommended to be changed every 2 years, the agm battery is a bit more expensive than a regular battery but supposed to last longer. I see some recommending that hybrid batteries be reconditioned/balanced to extend the life of it which is a process that takes a couple days to do properly so you may have to leave your car by the mechanic or if he puts a replacement battery pack for u to use while yours is being reconditioned. But not sure how often this should be done. I'm also seeing that these newer vehicles need an advanced scan tool to bleed brakes... something which is not recommended to do old school. So while u saving on gas, you pretty much have to go to a mechanic to get certain things done, while with older/normal cars you can mostly maintain yourself. I personally may look for a straight gas vehicle to buy next time.


You have some correct points, but also some other things to consider is that maintenance is required to be done less often (8-10 thousand km per service is the general standard). Hybrid battery fan cleaning is virtually user-serviceable, the hardest thing to do in the process is to put the clips back in at the end. Life expectancy tests can be performed with a ~$200 OBD II scanner and a few USD for the mobile app. Scan twice and you've recouped your money. The truly biggest difference is you have to (eventually) budget for the replacement of the HV battery, which can be well upwards of 10k. While it is true that you may need to go to a mechanic, it's not exactly a frequent requirement.

Just by comparison, my last vehicle (AD wagon) used to cost me easily more than $6k per year in maintenance. I've had my Aqua for almost 20 months and have not crossed $4500 in maintenance, which also included at first a replacement of all fluids, new spark plugs etc. Of course, even when budgeting for a new AGM battery and HV battery reconditioning to be done within the next 6 months, that would bring my total maintenance to just over $7k.


AD cost so much? Nah man I have a tiida for 10 yrs now an that used to cost me maybe about 3-4k for the year maintenance. I used to service it myself and I used to make 10k in 3 months so is 4 oil changes for the year lol. Since I got the aqua the tiida does less runs now lol


With our bad roads and whatnot, the parts for AD was cheap at a time, but didn't last. I'm no mechanic, so I would have to rely on a mechanic anyway for servicing (so my figures factor in labour costs, which you seem to be not counting - that 4500 on the aqua is also labour inclusive). My wagon served me for 17 years before I sold it to buy my Aqua.

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Kronik » August 24th, 2021, 9:57 pm

Musical Doc wrote:
SPK1983 wrote:
Musical Doc wrote:TBH, i got 762km off a tank from my aqua... but i think these savings are offset by maintenance cost. Mechanics charge for extra things like cleaning the hybrid battery fan and doing a life expectancy test , bus bars on the battery are recommended to be changed every 2 years, the agm battery is a bit more expensive than a regular battery but supposed to last longer. I see some recommending that hybrid batteries be reconditioned/balanced to extend the life of it which is a process that takes a couple days to do properly so you may have to leave your car by the mechanic or if he puts a replacement battery pack for u to use while yours is being reconditioned. But not sure how often this should be done. I'm also seeing that these newer vehicles need an advanced scan tool to bleed brakes... something which is not recommended to do old school. So while u saving on gas, you pretty much have to go to a mechanic to get certain things done, while with older/normal cars you can mostly maintain yourself. I personally may look for a straight gas vehicle to buy next time.


You have some correct points, but also some other things to consider is that maintenance is required to be done less often (8-10 thousand km per service is the general standard). Hybrid battery fan cleaning is virtually user-serviceable, the hardest thing to do in the process is to put the clips back in at the end. Life expectancy tests can be performed with a ~$200 OBD II scanner and a few USD for the mobile app. Scan twice and you've recouped your money. The truly biggest difference is you have to (eventually) budget for the replacement of the HV battery, which can be well upwards of 10k. While it is true that you may need to go to a mechanic, it's not exactly a frequent requirement.

Just by comparison, my last vehicle (AD wagon) used to cost me easily more than $6k per year in maintenance. I've had my Aqua for almost 20 months and have not crossed $4500 in maintenance, which also included at first a replacement of all fluids, new spark plugs etc. Of course, even when budgeting for a new AGM battery and HV battery reconditioning to be done within the next 6 months, that would bring my total maintenance to just over $7k.


AD cost so much? Nah man I have a tiida for 10 yrs now an that used to cost me maybe about 3-4k for the year maintenance. I used to service it myself and I used to make 10k in 3 months so is 4 oil changes for the year lol. Since I got the aqua the tiida does less runs now lol


Musical Doc wrote:
SPK1983 wrote:
Musical Doc wrote:TBH, i got 762km off a tank from my aqua... but i think these savings are offset by maintenance cost. Mechanics charge for extra things like cleaning the hybrid battery fan and doing a life expectancy test , bus bars on the battery are recommended to be changed every 2 years, the agm battery is a bit more expensive than a regular battery but supposed to last longer. I see some recommending that hybrid batteries be reconditioned/balanced to extend the life of it which is a process that takes a couple days to do properly so you may have to leave your car by the mechanic or if he puts a replacement battery pack for u to use while yours is being reconditioned. But not sure how often this should be done. I'm also seeing that these newer vehicles need an advanced scan tool to bleed brakes... something which is not recommended to do old school. So while u saving on gas, you pretty much have to go to a mechanic to get certain things done, while with older/normal cars you can mostly maintain yourself. I personally may look for a straight gas vehicle to buy next time.


You have some correct points, but also some other things to consider is that maintenance is required to be done less often (8-10 thousand km per service is the general standard). Hybrid battery fan cleaning is virtually user-serviceable, the hardest thing to do in the process is to put the clips back in at the end. Life expectancy tests can be performed with a ~$200 OBD II scanner and a few USD for the mobile app. Scan twice and you've recouped your money. The truly biggest difference is you have to (eventually) budget for the replacement of the HV battery, which can be well upwards of 10k. While it is true that you may need to go to a mechanic, it's not exactly a frequent requirement.

Just by comparison, my last vehicle (AD wagon) used to cost me easily more than $6k per year in maintenance. I've had my Aqua for almost 20 months and have not crossed $4500 in maintenance, which also included at first a replacement of all fluids, new spark plugs etc. Of course, even when budgeting for a new AGM battery and HV battery reconditioning to be done within the next 6 months, that would bring my total maintenance to just over $7k.


AD cost so much? Nah man I have a tiida for 10 yrs now an that used to cost me maybe about 3-4k for the year maintenance. I used to service it myself and I used to make 10k in 3 months so is 4 oil changes for the year lol. Since I got the aqua the tiida does less runs now lol


You do oil changes every 10k in that example? Most ppl do it at 5k, so that's double the oil change cost of what others would check it at

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby st7 » August 24th, 2021, 11:27 pm

Bimmerhead wrote:Can someone shed some light into the long term cost of ownership for hybrid/electric vehicles please.

I ask because i am seeing Hyundai Ioniqs that boasts 800+ Kilo per fill up selling for <130k regularly, and with the uncertainty surrounding fuel prices i am considering switching.

Understanding, one area of cost saved usually incurs another down the road (diesel, with maintenance and diesel quality locally).

Essentially my questions are;

1) Are there any Electric/Hybrid specific expenses that may offset the money saved through improved fuel economy?

2) Is the Kia Niro (roughly 175k used) a significantly better vehicle to warrant the higher price vs the Ioniq (roughly 130k used)? i know this is subjective but im sure people are wondering so lets discuss.

3) What are real time km/l ratings (Prius, Aqua, Fielder Hybrid, Ioniq, Lexus CT, all owners welcomed)

N.B. I am personally looking at the Ioniq vs Niro, but all other owners are welcomed because i am also interested to know why something like a Toyota Prius sells so reasonably in the used car market.


i've had my ioniq for 3.5 years so far and thru the stealership, my avg cost to service is about $1250 per service - which is $2500 a year. i can get over 900 km if i'm driving my car everyday long distances (eg chaguanas to st joseph and back) and bunning out the gas within a month. if the gas lasting 3 months which is typical for me because i WFH, i could get 700km avg due to my car getting some sun during the day. man, i've only put gas twice for the year so far and it takes about $185 to full the tank with Super (and i due to fill up again within the next week)

i have to say the Ioniq super reliable so far and those new Ioniqs looking real sweet. inside the Kia looks meh compared to the Ioniq.. and it costs plenty more for being almost the same as the Ioniq.

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby kamakazi » August 25th, 2021, 2:58 am

Switching kinda depends on what you have currently. As in of you can sell what you currently have and buy a used hybrid/ev you would save some money at the pump and possibly save in the long run.

Servicing the hybrid will be cheaper if the same or similar quality products are used, from the mere fact that the engine isn't being run all the time.
That said I am still weary of the Korean cousin manufacturers with regards to longevity and overall quality of their parts. I'm weary of the transmission that they use in their hybrids as part of it didn't hold up well in Vdub cars.

The battery longevity is also the big question for all hybrids and EVs.
Should find out the price for one and how long before it is expected to be replaced or even if the warranty covers it as a second owner.

Also keep in mind that hybrids have essentially 2 power units that do not work independently so there are 2 potential failure points

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Musical Doc » August 25th, 2021, 8:19 am

Kronik wrote:
Musical Doc wrote:
SPK1983 wrote:
Musical Doc wrote:TBH, i got 762km off a tank from my aqua... but i think these savings are offset by maintenance cost. Mechanics charge for extra things like cleaning the hybrid battery fan and doing a life expectancy test , bus bars on the battery are recommended to be changed every 2 years, the agm battery is a bit more expensive than a regular battery but supposed to last longer. I see some recommending that hybrid batteries be reconditioned/balanced to extend the life of it which is a process that takes a couple days to do properly so you may have to leave your car by the mechanic or if he puts a replacement battery pack for u to use while yours is being reconditioned. But not sure how often this should be done. I'm also seeing that these newer vehicles need an advanced scan tool to bleed brakes... something which is not recommended to do old school. So while u saving on gas, you pretty much have to go to a mechanic to get certain things done, while with older/normal cars you can mostly maintain yourself. I personally may look for a straight gas vehicle to buy next time.


You have some correct points, but also some other things to consider is that maintenance is required to be done less often (8-10 thousand km per service is the general standard). Hybrid battery fan cleaning is virtually user-serviceable, the hardest thing to do in the process is to put the clips back in at the end. Life expectancy tests can be performed with a ~$200 OBD II scanner and a few USD for the mobile app. Scan twice and you've recouped your money. The truly biggest difference is you have to (eventually) budget for the replacement of the HV battery, which can be well upwards of 10k. While it is true that you may need to go to a mechanic, it's not exactly a frequent requirement.

Just by comparison, my last vehicle (AD wagon) used to cost me easily more than $6k per year in maintenance. I've had my Aqua for almost 20 months and have not crossed $4500 in maintenance, which also included at first a replacement of all fluids, new spark plugs etc. Of course, even when budgeting for a new AGM battery and HV battery reconditioning to be done within the next 6 months, that would bring my total maintenance to just over $7k.


AD cost so much? Nah man I have a tiida for 10 yrs now an that used to cost me maybe about 3-4k for the year maintenance. I used to service it myself and I used to make 10k in 3 months so is 4 oil changes for the year lol. Since I got the aqua the tiida does less runs now lol


Musical Doc wrote:
SPK1983 wrote:
Musical Doc wrote:TBH, i got 762km off a tank from my aqua... but i think these savings are offset by maintenance cost. Mechanics charge for extra things like cleaning the hybrid battery fan and doing a life expectancy test , bus bars on the battery are recommended to be changed every 2 years, the agm battery is a bit more expensive than a regular battery but supposed to last longer. I see some recommending that hybrid batteries be reconditioned/balanced to extend the life of it which is a process that takes a couple days to do properly so you may have to leave your car by the mechanic or if he puts a replacement battery pack for u to use while yours is being reconditioned. But not sure how often this should be done. I'm also seeing that these newer vehicles need an advanced scan tool to bleed brakes... something which is not recommended to do old school. So while u saving on gas, you pretty much have to go to a mechanic to get certain things done, while with older/normal cars you can mostly maintain yourself. I personally may look for a straight gas vehicle to buy next time.


You have some correct points, but also some other things to consider is that maintenance is required to be done less often (8-10 thousand km per service is the general standard). Hybrid battery fan cleaning is virtually user-serviceable, the hardest thing to do in the process is to put the clips back in at the end. Life expectancy tests can be performed with a ~$200 OBD II scanner and a few USD for the mobile app. Scan twice and you've recouped your money. The truly biggest difference is you have to (eventually) budget for the replacement of the HV battery, which can be well upwards of 10k. While it is true that you may need to go to a mechanic, it's not exactly a frequent requirement.

Just by comparison, my last vehicle (AD wagon) used to cost me easily more than $6k per year in maintenance. I've had my Aqua for almost 20 months and have not crossed $4500 in maintenance, which also included at first a replacement of all fluids, new spark plugs etc. Of course, even when budgeting for a new AGM battery and HV battery reconditioning to be done within the next 6 months, that would bring my total maintenance to just over $7k.


AD cost so much? Nah man I have a tiida for 10 yrs now an that used to cost me maybe about 3-4k for the year maintenance. I used to service it myself and I used to make 10k in 3 months so is 4 oil changes for the year lol. Since I got the aqua the tiida does less runs now lol


You do oil changes every 10k in that example? Most ppl do it at 5k, so that's double the oil change cost of what others would check it at

Yes I do using amsoil. Works well for me so far. Using amsoil in the aqua as well which means the oil can be used past 10000 since the engine not running all the time but I'll stick with 10000.

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Musical Doc » August 25th, 2021, 8:22 am

SPK1983 wrote:
Musical Doc wrote:
SPK1983 wrote:
Musical Doc wrote:TBH, i got 762km off a tank from my aqua... but i think these savings are offset by maintenance cost. Mechanics charge for extra things like cleaning the hybrid battery fan and doing a life expectancy test , bus bars on the battery are recommended to be changed every 2 years, the agm battery is a bit more expensive than a regular battery but supposed to last longer. I see some recommending that hybrid batteries be reconditioned/balanced to extend the life of it which is a process that takes a couple days to do properly so you may have to leave your car by the mechanic or if he puts a replacement battery pack for u to use while yours is being reconditioned. But not sure how often this should be done. I'm also seeing that these newer vehicles need an advanced scan tool to bleed brakes... something which is not recommended to do old school. So while u saving on gas, you pretty much have to go to a mechanic to get certain things done, while with older/normal cars you can mostly maintain yourself. I personally may look for a straight gas vehicle to buy next time.


You have some correct points, but also some other things to consider is that maintenance is required to be done less often (8-10 thousand km per service is the general standard). Hybrid battery fan cleaning is virtually user-serviceable, the hardest thing to do in the process is to put the clips back in at the end. Life expectancy tests can be performed with a ~$200 OBD II scanner and a few USD for the mobile app. Scan twice and you've recouped your money. The truly biggest difference is you have to (eventually) budget for the replacement of the HV battery, which can be well upwards of 10k. While it is true that you may need to go to a mechanic, it's not exactly a frequent requirement.

Just by comparison, my last vehicle (AD wagon) used to cost me easily more than $6k per year in maintenance. I've had my Aqua for almost 20 months and have not crossed $4500 in maintenance, which also included at first a replacement of all fluids, new spark plugs etc. Of course, even when budgeting for a new AGM battery and HV battery reconditioning to be done within the next 6 months, that would bring my total maintenance to just over $7k.


AD cost so much? Nah man I have a tiida for 10 yrs now an that used to cost me maybe about 3-4k for the year maintenance. I used to service it myself and I used to make 10k in 3 months so is 4 oil changes for the year lol. Since I got the aqua the tiida does less runs now lol


With our bad roads and whatnot, the parts for AD was cheap at a time, but didn't last. I'm no mechanic, so I would have to rely on a mechanic anyway for servicing (so my figures factor in labour costs, which you seem to be not counting - that 4500 on the aqua is also labour inclusive). My wagon served me for 17 years before I sold it to buy my Aqua.


OK noted. Labour costs will make service costs double. There are the little things than u can do yourself. Youtube is a lifesaver lol

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby SPK1983 » August 25th, 2021, 8:54 am

Musical Doc wrote:
SPK1983 wrote:
Musical Doc wrote:
SPK1983 wrote:
Musical Doc wrote:TBH, i got 762km off a tank from my aqua... but i think these savings are offset by maintenance cost. Mechanics charge for extra things like cleaning the hybrid battery fan and doing a life expectancy test , bus bars on the battery are recommended to be changed every 2 years, the agm battery is a bit more expensive than a regular battery but supposed to last longer. I see some recommending that hybrid batteries be reconditioned/balanced to extend the life of it which is a process that takes a couple days to do properly so you may have to leave your car by the mechanic or if he puts a replacement battery pack for u to use while yours is being reconditioned. But not sure how often this should be done. I'm also seeing that these newer vehicles need an advanced scan tool to bleed brakes... something which is not recommended to do old school. So while u saving on gas, you pretty much have to go to a mechanic to get certain things done, while with older/normal cars you can mostly maintain yourself. I personally may look for a straight gas vehicle to buy next time.


You have some correct points, but also some other things to consider is that maintenance is required to be done less often (8-10 thousand km per service is the general standard). Hybrid battery fan cleaning is virtually user-serviceable, the hardest thing to do in the process is to put the clips back in at the end. Life expectancy tests can be performed with a ~$200 OBD II scanner and a few USD for the mobile app. Scan twice and you've recouped your money. The truly biggest difference is you have to (eventually) budget for the replacement of the HV battery, which can be well upwards of 10k. While it is true that you may need to go to a mechanic, it's not exactly a frequent requirement.

Just by comparison, my last vehicle (AD wagon) used to cost me easily more than $6k per year in maintenance. I've had my Aqua for almost 20 months and have not crossed $4500 in maintenance, which also included at first a replacement of all fluids, new spark plugs etc. Of course, even when budgeting for a new AGM battery and HV battery reconditioning to be done within the next 6 months, that would bring my total maintenance to just over $7k.


AD cost so much? Nah man I have a tiida for 10 yrs now an that used to cost me maybe about 3-4k for the year maintenance. I used to service it myself and I used to make 10k in 3 months so is 4 oil changes for the year lol. Since I got the aqua the tiida does less runs now lol


With our bad roads and whatnot, the parts for AD was cheap at a time, but didn't last. I'm no mechanic, so I would have to rely on a mechanic anyway for servicing (so my figures factor in labour costs, which you seem to be not counting - that 4500 on the aqua is also labour inclusive). My wagon served me for 17 years before I sold it to buy my Aqua.


OK noted. Labour costs will make service costs double. There are the little things than u can do yourself. Youtube is a lifesaver lol

. I have priced the components myself to replace, which was a bit over $330, out of a $500 service from my mechanic. Counting the facts that they handle the used oil/component disposal, they come to my location (so I don't lose my time - I have them come to my workplace to service the vehicle while I am working, so there is no effective time lost), and it also included the battery fan cleaning service (which I still do for myself monthly otherwise), I would say that ~$170 spent on having a professional do it properly is easily justifiable. But, to each his/her own.

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby The Bamboo Online » August 25th, 2021, 1:38 pm

I brought a 2007 Prius for $1000USD in 2018 still have it. Thing is bullet proof So far all have had to do on it is change oil and tires and a wheel bearing. Various Light bulbs. Wipers. Change Spark plugs once but they last long time as the engine isn’t always running. Only one drive belt to worry about and it running the water pump newer models have electrical water pumps

It also Does not have a transmission as the motors emulate a CVT. So no expensive transmission fluids to dump. It does at least have a diff which does not need regular maintenance or fluid changes to keep working.

The hybrid battery can last a extremely long time if you recondition it at most once a year. I brought the tools to do this and I make extra money on the side doing this for other hybrid owners.

The 12v battery found in these cars are over kill. The only reason they are in the car is to power the computers when you hit the power button and then the power voltage inverter takes over. I replaced mine which was 11 years old when it failed with a $20 lawnmower battery which is same size as the stock battery and has survived 2 winters so far.

These cars does not use its brakes as it will use the motors for regenerative brakes. NYC cab drivers who use them say they driven for years before needing brake jobs. You don’t need to bleed the brakes at all but once you mess with the brakes to switch out pads on these cars the regen brakes gets disabled so you can test the friction brakes automatically. After you test it out you need a expensive tool to reset it or you could use a cheap paperclip instead.

Car has almost 350k miles on it now. I don’t think I will sell it any time soon.

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby kamakazi » August 25th, 2021, 4:28 pm

Don't fully understand what you are saying regarding the transmission fluid.

There are enough videos online showing me how to drain and refill it with intervals of 30k kms. Those same videos show most people using Toyota WS ATF fluid; so it does have a transmission that requires servicing
The Bamboo Online wrote:I brought a 2007 Prius for $1000USD in 2018 still have it. Thing is bullet proof So far all have had to do on it is change oil and tires and a wheel bearing. Various Light bulbs. Wipers. Change Spark plugs once but they last long time as the engine isn’t always running. Only one drive belt to worry about and it running the water pump newer models have electrical water pumps

It also Does not have a transmission as the motors emulate a CVT. So no expensive transmission fluids to dump. It does at least have a diff which does not need regular maintenance or fluid changes to keep working.

The hybrid battery can last a extremely long time if you recondition it at most once a year. I brought the tools to do this and I make extra money on the side doing this for other hybrid owners.

The 12v battery found in these cars are over kill. The only reason they are in the car is to power the computers when you hit the power button and then the power voltage inverter takes over. I replaced mine which was 11 years old when it failed with a $20 lawnmower battery which is same size as the stock battery and has survived 2 winters so far.

These cars does not use its brakes as it will use the motors for regenerative brakes. NYC cab drivers who use them say they driven for years before needing brake jobs. You don’t need to bleed the brakes at all but once you mess with the brakes to switch out pads on these cars the regen brakes gets disabled so you can test the friction brakes automatically. After you test it out you need a expensive tool to reset it or you could use a cheap paperclip instead.

Car has almost 350k miles on it now. I don’t think I will sell it any time soon.

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby The Bamboo Online » August 25th, 2021, 4:53 pm

The Toyota Prius does not have a regular transmission like you would find in any other car. There is no Mechanical connection like in a gearbox or hydraulic connection like in a automatic transmission to the wheels. It is a unique transmission that utilizes a motor and a generator whose roles can be reversed which act like a CVT. Unlike a conventional transmission that has far more many parts, the engine in the Prius is connected to the wheels simply by a power cable running from the motor/generator which is bolted to the engine to the motor/generator that’s bolted to the diff. These motor generators, are submerged in a special fluid called Toyota World Standard or WS as you call it… It is non-conductive and protects the motor stators from overheating and shorting out. So Since the fluid is not under any stress other than heating up it doesn’t need to be changed out at all. But Toyota took high road and suggested that it be changed to protect itself and not the car.

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby wing » August 25th, 2021, 5:12 pm

The Bamboo Online wrote:The Toyota Prius does not have a regular transmission like you would find in any other car. There is no Mechanical connection like in a gearbox or hydraulic connection like in a automatic transmission to the wheels. It is a unique transmission that utilizes a motor and a generator whose roles can be reversed which act like a CVT. Unlike a conventional transmission that has far more many parts, the engine in the Prius is connected to the wheels simply by a power cable running from the motor/generator which is bolted to the engine to the motor/generator that’s bolted to the diff. These motor generators, are submerged in a special fluid called Toyota World Standard or WS as you call it… It is non-conductive and protects the motor stators from overheating and shorting out. So Since the fluid is not under any stress other than heating up it doesn’t need to be changed out at all. But Toyota took high road and suggested that it be changed to protect itself and not the car.
QFT...... Interesting note, Mazda licensed the Toyota hybrid system and paired it with the 2 liter skyactiv engine in the Mazda 3 since 2014. I have one going on 5 years now. Regular fluid change and battery maintenance. Still on stock brake pads.....80k KMS. In terms of range....820 KMS...or as much as 20l per 100 km. Will recommend hybrid or electric anytime to anyone. I'm just waiting for EV prices to fall enough for me to make the jump.

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby kamakazi » August 25th, 2021, 9:02 pm

This is where our thinking and understanding deviates. The engine has a mechanical connection to the tyres, determined by the motor generator units. In addition there is a clutch and a planetary gear set that the engine is connected to (this is for the Prius, not sure of the design in hyundai/kia). The fluid isn't just there for cooling, it is also there for lubrication of the various gear sets.
The transmission is unique in bringing together the varying technologies, but the individual technologies have been utilized before. Most automatic transmissions (conventional) use a planetary gear set, some motorcycles and cars use slipper clutches, etc

this video is for the second gen but the 1st gen isn't that much different
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmHpSyTsfm0

and for even more info
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=racnrH5X0QM

so when they say that your oil needs changing...


The Bamboo Online wrote:The Toyota Prius does not have a regular transmission like you would find in any other car. There is no Mechanical connection like in a gearbox or hydraulic connection like in a automatic transmission to the wheels. It is a unique transmission that utilizes a motor and a generator whose roles can be reversed which act like a CVT. Unlike a conventional transmission that has far more many parts, the engine in the Prius is connected to the wheels simply by a power cable running from the motor/generator which is bolted to the engine to the motor/generator that’s bolted to the diff. These motor generators, are submerged in a special fluid called Toyota World Standard or WS as you call it… It is non-conductive and protects the motor stators from overheating and shorting out. So Since the fluid is not under any stress other than heating up it doesn’t need to be changed out at all. But Toyota took high road and suggested that it be changed to protect itself and not the car.

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Bimmerhead » August 27th, 2021, 9:09 am

Appreciate the conversation guys.

To answer the question above i drive a Suzuki Grand Vitara that returns 10-11 km/l on a good day which translates to roughly 440KM on a $200 full up. Considering factors such as maintenaince and age i cannot fault it however i am lusting on those 800-1000km i hear from those EV/Hybrids as my daily East - West commute drinks alot.

I regularly drive a Honda HRV (Not Hybrid Vezel) and that usually returns 12.5 - 14km/l dependent on driving conditions. So initially my upgrade was suppose to be a Vezel Hybrid hoping to get better fuel economy however upon reading about transmission woos in another tread that desire died immediately and i settled on the Ioniq and Niro.

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby st7 » August 27th, 2021, 12:56 pm

let us know your thoughts when you test drive the Ioniq and Niro

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Musical Doc » August 27th, 2021, 3:44 pm

Bimmerhead wrote:Appreciate the conversation guys.

To answer the question above i drive a Suzuki Grand Vitara that returns 10-11 km/l on a good day which translates to roughly 440KM on a $200 full up. Considering factors such as maintenaince and age i cannot fault it however i am lusting on those 800-1000km i hear from those EV/Hybrids as my daily East - West commute drinks alot.

I regularly drive a Honda HRV (Not Hybrid Vezel) and that usually returns 12.5 - 14km/l dependent on driving conditions. So initially my upgrade was suppose to be a Vezel Hybrid hoping to get better fuel economy however upon reading about transmission woos in another tread that desire died immediately and i settled on the Ioniq and Niro.


Those vitara's with the 2.0L engine are gas guzzlers. I tried my best to drive my dad's one as fuel efficiently as possible but still could never get decent mileage from it and that is when he had gotten it brand new from the firm. It has great power tho, but both the size of the engine as well as the weight of the vehicle doesn't make it fuel efficient

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby kamakazi » August 27th, 2021, 4:34 pm

that mileage sounds pretty good for a 2.0 to be honest; dad's 2.0l xtrail (T30 4wd) gets like 9km to the litre on average and my sister's 1.6l EK civic gets 8km/l most of the time.

As I was alluding to earlier, lets say she sells the civic for $50000 and has has to pay an additional $70000 to get a used ioniq to then start saving fuel at the pump. She covers about 30km daily. It is going to take quite a while before this scenario breaks even or even saves money, even with that gas guzzler

However, if you can get more money for selling your grand vitara that can be used towards your purchase of a used hybrid or even buy one outright (i do not know how much used grand vitaras sell for) you can start saving money. Also the more you drive the quicker you break even or the more you save in that instance.

But Hyundai quality is hit or miss in my opinion.

As with everything Your mileage may vary

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Duane 3NE 2NR » August 28th, 2021, 1:32 pm

No need to panic but this can happen - just like a gasoline or oil fire in a internal combustion car
But interesting technique non the less

Where a 'regular' #car fire is a matter of extinguishing and towing, a fire in a #hybrid car is a much more complicated job. That was confirmed again yesterday when we were called for #smokedevelopment in a hybrid vehicle in #Leuven.
Arrived at the scene we found a strong smoke development, which pointed to the battery's thermal runaway '. This creates when the temperature of a battery cell rises considerably. Soon after arrival there were already flames visible. After knocking down the flames, we have refrigerated the vehicle abundantly and placed it in a special #waterdipping container.
After all, a battery that is damaged can catch fire again even after abundant cooling due to a chemical reaction in the battery. To stop this reaction it is necessary to cool the battery for a long time. For this we therefore use a special container in which the vehicle can be immersed for an extended period of time.
The container was placed in a remote parking lot. As soon as the vehicle has completely cooled down, a branch service will remove it from the container and transport it towards scrap dealer. Not for the sake of immersion, but because a car like this is completely destroyed when the battery catches on fire anyway.
There was also some attention for the extinguishing water. After all, it was contaminated and we couldn't just let it run away. It was collected in underground rainwater tanks and will be checked before processing.

237205274_1546965602301584_2208073132042489688_n.jpg


239616479_1546965605634917_2335225150950103122_n.jpg


https://www.facebook.com/hvzoost/photos ... 588968252/

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby VexXx Dogg » August 29th, 2021, 6:41 pm

Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:No need to panic but this can happen - just like a gasoline or oil fire in a internal combustion car
But interesting technique non the less

Where a 'regular' #car fire is a matter of extinguishing and towing, a fire in a #hybrid car is a much more complicated job. That was confirmed again yesterday when we were called for #smokedevelopment in a hybrid vehicle in #Leuven.
Arrived at the scene we found a strong smoke development, which pointed to the battery's thermal runaway '. This creates when the temperature of a battery cell rises considerably. Soon after arrival there were already flames visible. After knocking down the flames, we have refrigerated the vehicle abundantly and placed it in a special #waterdipping container.
After all, a battery that is damaged can catch fire again even after abundant cooling due to a chemical reaction in the battery. To stop this reaction it is necessary to cool the battery for a long time. For this we therefore use a special container in which the vehicle can be immersed for an extended period of time.
The container was placed in a remote parking lot. As soon as the vehicle has completely cooled down, a branch service will remove it from the container and transport it towards scrap dealer. Not for the sake of immersion, but because a car like this is completely destroyed when the battery catches on fire anyway.
There was also some attention for the extinguishing water. After all, it was contaminated and we couldn't just let it run away. It was collected in underground rainwater tanks and will be checked before processing.

237205274_1546965602301584_2208073132042489688_n.jpg

239616479_1546965605634917_2335225150950103122_n.jpg

https://www.facebook.com/hvzoost/photos ... 588968252/

Damn.

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby st7 » August 29th, 2021, 8:42 pm

ioniq hybrid drivers, after the 3 yrs stealership deal is up to keep the warranty - how often is it really recommended to service the car?

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Bimmerhead » August 23rd, 2022, 3:37 pm

I have a co-worker that has a 5 year old Ioniq, this car is dealer maintained from new and has been sitting in massy for 5 months with them trying to figure out what is wrong with it. Initially she was pissed because she had to pay out of pocket for a rental however now she is a bit better because she has a courtesy vehicle (upgrade). She is pensive about receiving the repaired car (whenever they are able to diagnose and fix the issue) because at that point the amount of things that would have been changed and looked at the car reliability would then be in question.

Guys & Gals do with that info as you please. Her words "Massy may not have the most competent techs for their hybrids"

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby Duane 3NE 2NR » August 23rd, 2022, 3:42 pm

^ Can happen with any vehicle, and hybrids can complicate it even more
But where there's one story like that there are dozens or hundreds of other similar vehicles with no problems.

How long did the dealership have the car in service before she got a courtesy car?

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby redmanjp » August 23rd, 2022, 4:09 pm

so how does maintenance costs compare between gas and hybrid vehicles?

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby st7 » August 23rd, 2022, 5:01 pm

who has the most competent techs for hybrids?

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Re: Long Term Cost of Ownership Hybrid/Electric

Postby jhonnieblue » August 23rd, 2022, 6:18 pm

Just sold my ioniq, over 135k on it. Zero issues and just did oil change every 12-15000km with amsoil and long life oil filters.
Basic cost was avg 600 per oil change.
Massy did a full vehicle check upon sale and found nothing wrongx no suspension issues, not a signed issue on the car and zero sludge build up.
Fantastic car I must say.

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