COVID vaccine passes. and SAFE ZONES Yay or Nay?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Businesses need to come together and mandate all employees get vaccinated unless they have medical reasons as to why they cannot.

When vaccination rates reach close to 50% they'll stop business with unvaccinated customers as well. I can't wait.

Yes, 100% of surviving businesses vying for 50% of available customers that have in recent times developed very frugal spending habits. That go work real good. Everybody revenue drops by 40-60%, unvaccinated people with money can't go anywhere or buy anything and with that all problems solved ent? That's what you want to see ent?




So tell us, besides manure, dung, kaka and horseshit, what other nuggets that you consider as valueable as gold do you keep in that hollow vault between your ears?

Assuming the mandates do not help to encourage more people to get vaccinated - which is the purpose of mandates, to encourage more people to get vaccinated, wear masks etc.

The lockdowns which are inevitable when there are spikes are going to further badly affect the economy and continue to make things worse.
Multiple layers of protection and mitigation are needed to ensure businesses can stay open safely.
Vaccination, masks, sanitizing and social distancing.
Statistically, complacency and non-conformity to scientific advice has shown to have negative effects and will prolong the pandemic.

[MaxPower]

No one seems to be bothered about the scorn towards the unvaccinated.

[adnj]

No one seems to be bothered about the scorn towards the unvaccinated.

No one knows if you're unvaccinated if you don't broadcast it.

[elec2020]

No one seems to be bothered about the scorn towards the unvaccinated.

even on the forums they made a thread that condones bashing them.

[De Dragon]

No one seems to be bothered about the scorn towards the unvaccinated.

even on the forums they made a thread that condones bashing them.

So you want to be only be a proud anti vaxxer behind your keyboard, yet you and hover11 fighting it down level like you all ready to take to the streets in protest?
I guess your convictions are as weak as your anti vax arguments.

[88sins]

Businesses need to come together and mandate all employees get vaccinated unless they have medical reasons as to why they cannot.

When vaccination rates reach close to 50% they'll stop business with unvaccinated customers as well. I can't wait.

Yes, 100% of surviving businesses vying for 50% of available customers that have in recent times developed very frugal spending habits. That go work real good. Everybody revenue drops by 40-60%, unvaccinated people with money can't go anywhere or buy anything and with that all problems solved ent? That's what you want to see ent?




So tell us, besides manure, dung, kaka and horseshit, what other nuggets that you consider as valueable as gold do you keep in that hollow vault between your ears?

Assuming the mandates do not help to encourage more people to get vaccinated - which is the purpose of mandates, to encourage more people to get vaccinated, wear masks etc.

The lockdowns which are inevitable when there are spikes are going to further badly affect the economy and continue to make things worse.
Multiple layers of protection and mitigation are needed to ensure businesses can stay open safely.
Vaccination, masks, sanitizing and social distancing.
Statistically, complacency and non-conformity to scientific advice has shown to have negative effects and will prolong the pandemic.

I can understand and appreciate your perspectives. But let's all be realistic. Where mask wearing and vaccination of the entire population is not achievable, there are other things that can be put in place that will aid in the mitigation of risk of exposure to the virus for both vaccinated and unvaccinated alike, thus curbing the potential spread of the disease.
Look for example, online sales. This is one area where I say, we have fallen short. We are behind the technological curve. Order and pay online from an established reputable source, and have your purchase delivered to your door. As regards the work force, those who can work from home should continue to do so, and those who cannot should be left to work in such a manner that minimizes their risk of exposure (distancing, mandatory mask wearing, as few personnel on a project site as possible, etc.)

Some adjustment is necessary, now and going forward. Necessity is generrally considered the driving force behind evolution and innovation. We as a green fig republic have to evolve and adapt and grow, from the traditional cash based I must be in front of you and you in front of me system.

[Dohplaydat]

Businesses need to come together and mandate all employees get vaccinated unless they have medical reasons as to why they cannot.

When vaccination rates reach close to 50% they'll stop business with unvaccinated customers as well. I can't wait.

Yes, 100% of surviving businesses vying for 50% of available customers that have in recent times developed very frugal spending habits. That go work real good. Everybody revenue drops by 40-60%, unvaccinated people with money can't go anywhere or buy anything and with that all problems solved ent? That's what you want to see ent?




So tell us, besides manure, dung, kaka and horseshit, what other nuggets that you consider as valueable as gold do you keep in that hollow vault between your ears?

Assuming the mandates do not help to encourage more people to get vaccinated - which is the purpose of mandates, to encourage more people to get vaccinated, wear masks etc.

The lockdowns which are inevitable when there are spikes are going to further badly affect the economy and continue to make things worse.
Multiple layers of protection and mitigation are needed to ensure businesses can stay open safely.
Vaccination, masks, sanitizing and social distancing.
Statistically, complacency and non-conformity to scientific advice has shown to have negative effects and will prolong the pandemic.

I can understand and appreciate your perspectives. But let's all be realistic. Where mask wearing and vaccination of the entire population is not achievable, there are other things that can be put in place that will aid in the mitigation of risk of exposure to the virus for both vaccinated and unvaccinated alike, thus curbing the potential spread of the disease.
Look for example, online sales. This is one area where I say, we have fallen short. We are behind the technological curve. Order and pay online from an established reputable source, and have your purchase delivered to your door. As regards the work force, those who can work from home should continue to do so, and those who cannot should be left to work in such a manner that minimizes their risk of exposure (distancing, mandatory mask wearing, as few personnel on a project site as possible, etc.)

Some adjustment is necessary, now and going forward. Necessity is generrally considered the driving force behind evolution and innovation. We as a green fig republic have to evolve and adapt and grow, from the traditional cash based I must be in front of you and you in front of me system.

Yes but that doesn't apply to all businesses though.

Also, taking online payments is something many would do if the process was easier and cheaper, blame our local banking cartel and government for that

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^^ those are long-term solutions that cannot be implemented in the next 30 or 60 days - for some businesses, not at all.

We have the vaccines and we have the mask mandates that can help to reduce the risk and strain on our healthcare system dramatically and quickly in just 5 weeks (the time needed for someone to be fully vaccinated).

Look at what the pushback towards vaccines and mask mandates are doing in the US

Some entire states have no more available ICU beds, some only have a handful.
Some major hospitals' ICU are filled to capacity and ALL the patients are there for Covid and ALL are unvaccinated.
That leaves little to no room for cancer, heart, trauma emergencies.
Yet some Republican Mayors and Governors are pushing back against vaccines, mask mandates and lockdowns.

The virus does not care about freedom of choice any more than gravity does if you choose to jump out of a plane without a parachute.

[gastly369]

^^ my aunt who's a nurse up there
It's horrible mess in the health system and a psychological impact on her and prob others etc

[FrankChag]

Regarding cards, we should look at the precedent.
Pre-covid, when does your vaccine card become important? School/UWI and international travel requirements.
If that's good enough for measles and TB (which are objectively way worse), that should be sufficient of covid19.

I also think your employer (privately) wanting to know if you're vaccinated is fair, if only to take additional precautions.
But I can't see businesses demanding to see customer's vaccine card developing as a thing.. that's a privacy issue, and customers won't have that. UNLESS it's like, you can't dine-in without showing your vaccine card.. which i'm still on the fence on.

That should be a sufficient 'pull' strategy to take a vaccine, since the efficacy of the 'push' strategy is waning.

[RedVEVO]

Regarding cards, we should look at the precedent.
Pre-covid, when does your vaccine card become important? School/UWI and international travel requirements.
If that's good enough for measles and TB (which are objectively way worse), that should be sufficient of covid19.

I also think your employer (privately) wanting to know if you're vaccinated is fair, if only to take additional precautions.
But I can't see businesses demanding to see customer's vaccine card developing as a thing.. that's a privacy issue, and customers won't have that. UNLESS it's like, you can't dine-in without showing your vaccine card.. which i'm still on the fence on.

That should be a sufficient 'pull' strategy to take a vaccine, since the efficacy of the 'push' strategy is waning.

Another view .

If a business owner asks for proof of COVID vaccination do you not think he has the right ?

It's his establishment and he is only protecting his business and himself, his family and his patrons .

How is this a privacy issue in a pubic domain ?

[timelapse]

Regarding cards, we should look at the precedent.
Pre-covid, when does your vaccine card become important? School/UWI and international travel requirements.
If that's good enough for measles and TB (which are objectively way worse), that should be sufficient of covid19.

I also think your employer (privately) wanting to know if you're vaccinated is fair, if only to take additional precautions.
But I can't see businesses demanding to see customer's vaccine card developing as a thing.. that's a privacy issue, and customers won't have that. UNLESS it's like, you can't dine-in without showing your vaccine card.. which i'm still on the fence on.

That should be a sufficient 'pull' strategy to take a vaccine, since the efficacy of the 'push' strategy is waning.

Another view .

If a business owner asks for proof of COVID vaccination do you not think he has the right ?

It's his establishment and he is only protecting his business and himself, his family and his patrons .

How is this a privacy issue in a pubic domain ?

Exactly.
I wonder if somebody with chicken pox walks into the same business what would happen.Would they be allowed in?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Already happening in the US

Restaurant in Louisiana

[hover11]

Why one dose though, aren't you still at risk with just one dose and treated the same as unvaccinated, if I'm afforded these opportunities with just one dose what encouraging people to return for the second

Already happening in the US

50a583af-fe7f-4c08-a098-74997553773d.jpg

Restaurant in Louisiana

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Why one dose though, aren't you still at risk with just one dose and treated the same as unvaccinated, if I'm afforded these opportunities with just one dose what encouraging people to return for the second

Already happening in the US

50a583af-fe7f-4c08-a098-74997553773d.jpg

Restaurant in Louisiana

Depends on the vaccine and the person. J&J only requires one.
One dose is still better than none.
Some may require a third booster.

[adnj]

Why one dose though, aren't you still at risk with just one dose and treated the same as unvaccinated, if I'm afforded these opportunities with just one dose what encouraging people to return for the second

Already happening in the US

50a583af-fe7f-4c08-a098-74997553773d.jpg

Restaurant in Louisiana

Pfizer and Moderna's vaccines are likely 80% effective against symptomatic COVID-19 after one dose.

A single AstraZeneca shot is probably at least 70% effective at preventing symptomatic COVID-19.

J&J is one dose.

No other vaccines are available in the USA.

Protection increases with the second dose.

https://www.businessinsider.com/covid-v ... ose-2021-3

[adnj]

Los Angeles City Council Votes 13-0 To Create Vaccination Requirement For Indoor Public Spaces Such As Restaurants, Movie Theaters, Concert Venues

“This is not a vaccine mandate…we’re not going to deny anyone the ability to access essentials, food, medicine, etc., regardless of vaccination…but what is immoral is choosing not to get vaccinated, choosing to listen to some delusional rant on Twitter,” he added.

The ordinance would be similar to a policy recently announced in New York City, but would be more restrictive with the inclusion of retail establishments. The New York policy restricts access only to more entertainment- oriented venues such as restaurants, fitness centers and theaters.

https://deadline.com/2021/08/los-angele ... 234813086/

[sam1978]

Already happening in the US

50a583af-fe7f-4c08-a098-74997553773d.jpg

Restaurant in Louisiana

It's not a mandatory vaccination programme per se, but necessary in eating establishments because of the absence of masks?

[FrankChag]

Regarding cards, we should look at the precedent.
Pre-covid, when does your vaccine card become important? School/UWI and international travel requirements.
If that's good enough for measles and TB (which are objectively way worse), that should be sufficient of covid19.

I also think your employer (privately) wanting to know if you're vaccinated is fair, if only to take additional precautions.
But I can't see businesses demanding to see customer's vaccine card developing as a thing.. that's a privacy issue, and customers won't have that. UNLESS it's like, you can't dine-in without showing your vaccine card.. which i'm still on the fence on.

That should be a sufficient 'pull' strategy to take a vaccine, since the efficacy of the 'push' strategy is waning.

Another view .

If a business owner asks for proof of COVID vaccination do you not think he has the right ?

It's his establishment and he is only protecting his business and himself, his family and his patrons .

How is this a privacy issue in a pubic domain ?

Exactly.
I wonder if somebody with chicken pox walks into the same business what would happen.Would they be allowed in?

Personally, I have no strong opinions on the matter (whether a business should or shouldn't).
I can see why some businesses would, like dine-in restaurants, bars. Maybe groceries, pennywise.
Letting the market or the regulators decide this one.

As I said, my ppl all smart and vaxxed.

As a consumer, I don't mind showing my vax card, if its an issue. But walking around with some stupid card WILL become VERY annoying VERY quickly, and I'll start shopping at businesses that don't require it.

[st7]

Regarding cards, we should look at the precedent.
Pre-covid, when does your vaccine card become important? School/UWI and international travel requirements.
If that's good enough for measles and TB (which are objectively way worse), that should be sufficient of covid19.

I also think your employer (privately) wanting to know if you're vaccinated is fair, if only to take additional precautions.
But I can't see businesses demanding to see customer's vaccine card developing as a thing.. that's a privacy issue, and customers won't have that. UNLESS it's like, you can't dine-in without showing your vaccine card.. which i'm still on the fence on.

That should be a sufficient 'pull' strategy to take a vaccine, since the efficacy of the 'push' strategy is waning.

Another view .

If a business owner asks for proof of COVID vaccination do you not think he has the right ?

It's his establishment and he is only protecting his business and himself, his family and his patrons .

How is this a privacy issue in a pubic domain ?

Exactly.
I wonder if somebody with chicken pox walks into the same business what would happen.Would they be allowed in?

Personally, I have no strong opinions on the matter (whether a business should or shouldn't).
I can see why some businesses would, like dine-in restaurants, bars. Maybe groceries, pennywise.
Letting the market or the regulators decide this one.

As I said, my ppl all smart and vaxxed.

As a consumer, I don't mind showing my vax card, if its an issue. But walking around with some stupid card WILL become VERY annoying VERY quickly, and I'll start shopping at businesses that don't require it.

imagine if u lose it too. a govt app will work in this case though.

[Dohplaydat]

Hence why we need a vaccine passport card that's hard to fake. UK has one with the NHS Covid App pass and many others are following suite.

[hover11]

France is into their fifth week of protests because of these but the mainstream media doesn't highlight that. France needs another revolution tbh

Hence why we need a vaccine passport card that's hard to fake. UK has one with the NHS Covid App pass and many others are following suite.

[Mmoney607]

France is into their fifth week of protests because of these but the mainstream media doesn't highlight that. France needs another revolution tbh

Hence why we need a vaccine passport card that's hard to fake. UK has one with the NHS Covid App pass and many others are following suite.

In 2021, revolutionist will be called "violent insurrectionists" and "anti-democracy"

[adnj]

France is into their fifth week of protests because of these but the mainstream media doesn't highlight that. France needs another revolution tbh

Hence why we need a vaccine passport card that's hard to fake. UK has one with the NHS Covid App pass and many others are following suite.

In 2021, revolutionist will be called "violent insurrectionists" and "anti-democracy"

France has more than 70% of all its people with at least one shot. There's not much media traction because there's not much of a story. No one choked, shot, jailed, or drowned; just some people that need to show proof of vaccination to enjoy public entertainment venues.

You should really try to understand what they are protesting against -- it is essentially similar to what you two are complaining about: not being able to do anything you want without any ramifications.

[sMASH]

that is essentially the foundation of fascism.

[adnj]

that is essentially the foundation of fascism.

If or when the protests are forcibly shutdown and all opposition to the legislation is made illegal, then it could be considered Fascist. Otherwise, it's the losing side of the argument demonstrating their displeasure.

Just throwing out terms doesn't make it just so -- especially if you don't fully grasp the meanings of those terms.

[VexXx Dogg]

that is essentially the foundation of fascism.

Do explain

[redmanjp]

Why one dose though, aren't you still at risk with just one dose and treated the same as unvaccinated, if I'm afforded these opportunities with just one dose what encouraging people to return for the second

Already happening in the US

50a583af-fe7f-4c08-a098-74997553773d.jpg

Restaurant in Louisiana

Pfizer and Moderna's vaccines are likely 80% effective against symptomatic COVID-19 after one dose.

A single AstraZeneca shot is probably at least 70% effective at preventing symptomatic COVID-19.

J&J is one dose.

No other vaccines are available in the USA.

Protection increases with the second dose.

https://www.businessinsider.com/covid-v ... ose-2021-3

except that applies mostly to the original strain. which is waning across the world as delta is becoming dominant. the same article says you need both shots to be effective against variants.

Newest data suggests second shot provides better protection against variants
Real-word data from the UK posted May 23 by Public Health England showed that Pfizer's and AstraZeneca's COVID-19 vaccines worked better against the variants when two doses were given rather than just one. Both vaccines were 30% effective against COVID-19 with symptoms caused by the Delta variant, first identified in India, three weeks after the first dose.

This was boosted to between 60% and 88% effectiveness two weeks after the second dose. The two vaccines were 50% effective against COVID-19 with symptoms against the variant first found in the UK, Alpha, three weeks after the first dose. This increased to between 66% and 93% two weeks after the second dose.

[88sins]

Hence why we need a vaccine passport card that's hard to fake. UK has one with the NHS Covid App pass and many others are following suite.

Again, playing the role of devil's advocate here.
Let's just say, you need a vaccination passport to do amy and all business in T&T. A person doesn't have said vaccination passport because they have not taken the vaccine, for whatever reason.
So, let's say that said person needs to be able to feed their children, and has the money with which to do so. But they can't, because they don't have a vaccination passport, so they can't enter a supermarket. Who's responsible for those kids going hungry and can't get something to eat? Some would say the parent, but remember, he can feed his kids, and wants to, but is just that you won't let him without evidence of vaccination.

So who's to blame? Some would say that the parent is to blame, but we can't disregard the fact that if not for the barrier placed in their way they wouldn't be in that position.

Should we now consider it acceptable to force people against their will to do things with their own body that they don't want to do? If so, and you're OK with that, cool, but ask yourself the question, where does it stop? At what point would you think that a line is being crossed that should not be crossed? When you totally lose your freedom of choice and you must comply with state issued orders, failing which you will be subjected to penalties? When your freedom of speech entirely? When your freedom of movement ceases to exist? When your right to privacy is terminated and any random government official can walk into your home at anytime, for any reason whatsoever and do whatever they wish and you are not allowed to stop them or even question them? When you lose your reproductive rights? How much are you as an individual willing to lose or give up, just because someone said that you should give it up and be happy about giving it up, simply because they feel that your sacrifice might be beneficial for the sake of the greater good?

[redmanjp]

Los Angeles City Council Votes 13-0 To Create Vaccination Requirement For Indoor Public Spaces Such As Restaurants, Movie Theaters, Concert Venues

“This is not a vaccine mandate…we’re not going to deny anyone the ability to access essentials, food, medicine, etc., regardless of vaccination…but what is immoral is choosing not to get vaccinated, choosing to listen to some delusional rant on Twitter,” he added.

The ordinance would be similar to a policy recently announced in New York City, but would be more restrictive with the inclusion of retail establishments. The New York policy restricts access only to more entertainment- oriented venues such as restaurants, fitness centers and theaters.

https://deadline.com/2021/08/los-angele ... 234813086/

the vax pass could work as long as it's not too restrictive- i.e. allow everyone to function as they did during a lockdown. you can still go out for essentials- e.g. groceries, drugs, etc. depending on the level of cases, if low allow the unvaxxed into non-essential retail stores as masks can be worn. restrict them from venues where it can't -e.g. indoor dining, bars, cinemas where food/drink is consumed,etc.

restrict essential businesses from requiring the pass- as not allowing ppl to get food and access essentials could be seen as fascist.