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timelapse wrote:'God's chosen ' squatters.IMG-20210517-WA0000.jpeg
Dizzy28 wrote:timelapse wrote:'God's chosen ' squatters.IMG-20210517-WA0000.jpeg
Maps without the nuance of the history is meaningless.
Map 1 is Mandatory Palestine which was not a nation. They are also comparing Palestinian Land vs Jewish settlements as opposed to Arab Settlements vs Jewish Settlements. The map would look much different with the entire Negev being empty.
In 1947 upon declaration of Independence on the 14th of May the newly formed nation of Israel was immediately attacked on the 15th of May by the combined armies of the ME Arab world (Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Yemen). Israel won that war and then had an even more decisive victory in the Six Day War resulting in the map of 1967 (where there also had control of the Sinai Peninsula). Post 1967 was the first time they actually had access to the Western Wall in Jerusalem which was previously under Jordanian control.
The present day map is undefendable as a two station solution within the 1967 borders is about the only viable solution to the issue. However what happened before was the result of activities not entirely within Israel's control and to a large extent an Arab driven problem.
FrankChag wrote:Dizzy28 wrote:timelapse wrote:'God's chosen ' squatters.IMG-20210517-WA0000.jpeg
Maps without the nuance of the history is meaningless.
Map 1 is Mandatory Palestine which was not a nation. They are also comparing Palestinian Land vs Jewish settlements as opposed to Arab Settlements vs Jewish Settlements. The map would look much different with the entire Negev being empty.
In 1947 upon declaration of Independence on the 14th of May the newly formed nation of Israel was immediately attacked on the 15th of May by the combined armies of the ME Arab world (Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Yemen). Israel won that war and then had an even more decisive victory in the Six Day War resulting in the map of 1967 (where there also had control of the Sinai Peninsula). Post 1967 was the first time they actually had access to the Western Wall in Jerusalem which was previously under Jordanian control.
The present day map is undefendable as a two station solution within the 1967 borders is about the only viable solution to the issue. However what happened before was the result of activities not entirely within Israel's control and to a large extent an Arab driven problem.
...When the Israelis, or rather the extremist Zionists levelled the entire Moroccan Quarter and its people (1967) to make the plaza in front of the Wailing Wall.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moroccan_Quarter
Honestly, the jewish/zionist racist/apartheid of the Palestinian people is indefensible.
God warns them in the Quran of His punishment if they return to their tyranny.
So it's just a matter of time.
Sucks to be them.
timelapse wrote:Aye look, another real estate God
FrankChag wrote:Dizzy28 wrote:timelapse wrote:'God's chosen ' squatters.IMG-20210517-WA0000.jpeg
Maps without the nuance of the history is meaningless.
Map 1 is Mandatory Palestine which was not a nation. They are also comparing Palestinian Land vs Jewish settlements as opposed to Arab Settlements vs Jewish Settlements. The map would look much different with the entire Negev being empty.
In 1947 upon declaration of Independence on the 14th of May the newly formed nation of Israel was immediately attacked on the 15th of May by the combined armies of the ME Arab world (Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Yemen). Israel won that war and then had an even more decisive victory in the Six Day War resulting in the map of 1967 (where there also had control of the Sinai Peninsula). Post 1967 was the first time they actually had access to the Western Wall in Jerusalem which was previously under Jordanian control.
The present day map is undefendable as a two station solution within the 1967 borders is about the only viable solution to the issue. However what happened before was the result of activities not entirely within Israel's control and to a large extent an Arab driven problem.
That's not true. They had access (see this picture in the Moroccan Quarter from 1900, from the wikipedia article below). But they wanted the whole thing. So they, the Israelis, or rather the extremist Zionists levelled the entire Moroccan Quarter and its people (1967) to make the plaza in front of the Wailing Wall. Seems fair. /s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moroccan_Quarter
Honestly, the jewish/zionist racist/apartheid of the Palestinian people is indefensible.
God warns them in the Quran of His punishment if they return to their tyranny.
So it's just a matter of time.
Sucks to be them.
SuperiorMan wrote:What do you all think of this?
https://www.thejc.com/judaism/features/ ... ael-1.8278
Classical Islam accepts there is a divinely ordained bond between the Jewish People and ‘the Holy Land’, say some scholars.
Tafseer Shaykh Uthaymeen
"O Children of Israel, remember my favor that I have bestowed upon you and that I preferred you over the worlds." (Soorah Al Baqarah 2:47)
Shaykh Uthaymeen: From the benefits of this verse:
1. It is obligatory upon the children of Israel to remember Allah’s favor upon them and to show gratitude for it. And from showing gratitude is for them to follow Muhammad peace be upon him.
2. Clarifying that this favor was not earned by them, or due to their hard work, nor was it inherited from their fathers; rather it was only a favor from Allah upon them. Thus Allah said: ‘I have bestowed upon you.’
3. The children of Israel were the best of mankind during their era, based upon the statement of the Exalted: ‘I preferred you over the worlds.’ This is because during that time they were people of faith. As a result victory was decreed for them over their enormous enemies. It was said to them:
Enter the Holy Land which Allah has assigned to you (Soorah Al Maidah 5:21)
And the Holy Land is Palestine. And Allah only assigned the land of Palestine to the children of Israel during the time of Musa because they were righteous slaves of Allah. And Allah the Exalted said:
And indeed we have written in Psalms after (We have already written in) Al-Lauh Al-Mahfuz, that my righteous slaves shall inherit the land. (Soorah Al Anbiyah 21:105)
And Musa said to his people:
Indeed, the earth belongs to Allah. He causes to inherit it whom He wills of His servants. (Soorah Al ‘Araf 7:218)
Then he said:
And the [best outcome is for the righteous.
Therefore the righteous shall inherit the earth; but the children of Israel today do not deserve the Holy land, because they are not righteous slaves of Allah; as for during the time of Musa, they were more deserving of it than those who lived there. And it was written for them, and they were the most deserving of it. But when Islam (which was brought by the Prophet, peace be upon him) came, then the most deserving people of this land became the Muslims. Not the Arabs; because Palestine is not Arab such that the people deserving Palestine can be described as Arabs; rather the people deserving of Palestine are Muslims, their description is Muslim. They have no other description. And they can be called righteous slaves of Allah the Exalted. For this reason the Arabs will never succeed (according to what I believe and the knowledge is with Allah) in recovering Palestine in the name of Pan-Arabism. It is not possible to recover it except with the name Islam upon what the Prophet peace be upon him and his companions were upon. As the Exalted said:
Indeed, the earth belongs to Allah. He causes to inherit it, whom He wills of His servants. (Soorah Al ‘Araf 7:218)
Regardless of what the Arabs try; and regardless of how they fill the earth with speeches and protest; they will never be susuccessful until they call for the Jews to exit from it with the name of Islam; after they apply it (Islam) in themselves. If they do this then they shall actualize what the Prophet peace be upon him has informed us of:
The hour will not be established until the Muslims fight the Jews. The Muslims will kill them such that the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees. So the rock or the tree will say: O Muslim, O slave of Allah, here is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.
Thus the trees and rocks will direct the Muslims to the Jews saying O slave of Allah; calling him by the name of servitude to Allah; and it will say: O Muslim; calling him by the name of Islam. The Messenger peace be upon him said: ‘The Muslims will fight the Jews.’ He did not say the ‘Arabs’.
For this reason I say: We will never remove the Jews by the call of Pan-Arabism, we will only remove them with the name of Islam. Whoever wants let him recite the statement of the Exalted:
And indeed We have written in Psalms after (We have already written in) Al-Lauh Al-Mahfuz, that My righteous slaves shall inherit the land.
(Soorah Al Anbiyah 21:105)
Thus He made the inheritance for His righteous slaves. And that which is connected to a description will occur when the description is present, and it will be negated when the description is negated. If we are righteous slaves of Allah we will inherit it with complete ease, without any hardship, toil or difficulty and without long drawn out speeches which never end! We will seize it with the help of Allah the Exalted with what Allah has decreed for us. And how easy is this for Allah! We know that the Muslims did not rule Palestine during the illustrious era of Islam except due to their Islam. And they did not conquer the capital cities of Persian, and the capital of Rome, and the capital of the Coptic except due to their Islam. Thus if only our youth were conscious and aware that absolute victory is not possible except with real Islam; not Islam which is identified by an I.D. card!
And perhaps some of you have heard the story of Sad ibn Abi Waqas may Allah be pleased with him. The Persians had destroyed the bridge over the Tigris River and sank the ships so the Muslims would not cross (the river) and reach them. So Allah subjugated the river for them. Thus they started walking on top of the water with their horses, their men, and their camels. They walked on top of the water just as they walked on top of the land. The water did not cover the hooves of the camels. When the horses became tired Allah facilitated a raised boulder so they could rest upon it. And this was from the signs of Allah no doubt. And Allah the Exalted has power over all things. Thus the One who split the sea for Musa peace be upon him and his people such that it instantly became a dry path for them and they walked therein safely; has the ability to do greater than that.
The point is; the children of Israel no doubt were the best of mankind when they were righteous slaves of Allah, but when they were afflicted with humiliation, and cursed, and debased, then they are no longer the best of mankind; rather some of them are monkeys and pigs. And they are the most debased slaves of Allah based upon the statement of the Exalted:
Indignity is put over them wherever they may be, except when under a covenant (of protection) from Allah, and from men; they have drawn on themselves the Wrath of Allah, and destruction is put over them. (Soorah Aali Imraan 3:112)
And the Exalted said:
They will not fight you all except within fortified cities or from behind walls. Their violence among themselves is severe. You think they are together, but their hearts are diverse. That is because they are a people who do not reason.
http://www.ibnothaimeen.com/all/books/a ... 6812.shtml
Translated by Rasheed ibn Estes Barbee
http://mtws.posthaven.com/palestine-doe ... he-muslims
FrankChag wrote:SuperiorMan wrote:What do you all think of this?
https://www.thejc.com/judaism/features/ ... ael-1.8278
Classical Islam accepts there is a divinely ordained bond between the Jewish People and ‘the Holy Land’, say some scholars.
False. The correct opinion regarding this is that Palestine does not belong to the Jews/Arabs/Palestinians (ie these races), it belongs to the Muslims.
https://mtws.posthaven.com/palestine-do ... he-muslimsTafseer Shaykh Uthaymeen
"O Children of Israel, remember my favor that I have bestowed upon you and that I preferred you over the worlds." (Soorah Al Baqarah 2:47)
Shaykh Uthaymeen: From the benefits of this verse:
1. It is obligatory upon the children of Israel to remember Allah’s favor upon them and to show gratitude for it. And from showing gratitude is for them to follow Muhammad peace be upon him.
2. Clarifying that this favor was not earned by them, or due to their hard work, nor was it inherited from their fathers; rather it was only a favor from Allah upon them. Thus Allah said: ‘I have bestowed upon you.’
3. The children of Israel were the best of mankind during their era, based upon the statement of the Exalted: ‘I preferred you over the worlds.’ This is because during that time they were people of faith. As a result victory was decreed for them over their enormous enemies. It was said to them:
Enter the Holy Land which Allah has assigned to you (Soorah Al Maidah 5:21)
And the Holy Land is Palestine. And Allah only assigned the land of Palestine to the children of Israel during the time of Musa because they were righteous slaves of Allah. And Allah the Exalted said:
And indeed we have written in Psalms after (We have already written in) Al-Lauh Al-Mahfuz, that my righteous slaves shall inherit the land. (Soorah Al Anbiyah 21:105)
And Musa said to his people:
Indeed, the earth belongs to Allah. He causes to inherit it whom He wills of His servants. (Soorah Al ‘Araf 7:218)
Then he said:
And the [best outcome is for the righteous.
Therefore the righteous shall inherit the earth; but the children of Israel today do not deserve the Holy land, because they are not righteous slaves of Allah; as for during the time of Musa, they were more deserving of it than those who lived there. And it was written for them, and they were the most deserving of it. But when Islam (which was brought by the Prophet, peace be upon him) came, then the most deserving people of this land became the Muslims. Not the Arabs; because Palestine is not Arab such that the people deserving Palestine can be described as Arabs; rather the people deserving of Palestine are Muslims, their description is Muslim. They have no other description. And they can be called righteous slaves of Allah the Exalted. For this reason the Arabs will never succeed (according to what I believe and the knowledge is with Allah) in recovering Palestine in the name of Pan-Arabism. It is not possible to recover it except with the name Islam upon what the Prophet peace be upon him and his companions were upon. As the Exalted said:
Indeed, the earth belongs to Allah. He causes to inherit it, whom He wills of His servants. (Soorah Al ‘Araf 7:218)
Regardless of what the Arabs try; and regardless of how they fill the earth with speeches and protest; they will never be susuccessful until they call for the Jews to exit from it with the name of Islam; after they apply it (Islam) in themselves. If they do this then they shall actualize what the Prophet peace be upon him has informed us of:
The hour will not be established until the Muslims fight the Jews. The Muslims will kill them such that the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees. So the rock or the tree will say: O Muslim, O slave of Allah, here is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.
Thus the trees and rocks will direct the Muslims to the Jews saying O slave of Allah; calling him by the name of servitude to Allah; and it will say: O Muslim; calling him by the name of Islam. The Messenger peace be upon him said: ‘The Muslims will fight the Jews.’ He did not say the ‘Arabs’.
For this reason I say: We will never remove the Jews by the call of Pan-Arabism, we will only remove them with the name of Islam. Whoever wants let him recite the statement of the Exalted:
And indeed We have written in Psalms after (We have already written in) Al-Lauh Al-Mahfuz, that My righteous slaves shall inherit the land.
(Soorah Al Anbiyah 21:105)
Thus He made the inheritance for His righteous slaves. And that which is connected to a description will occur when the description is present, and it will be negated when the description is negated. If we are righteous slaves of Allah we will inherit it with complete ease, without any hardship, toil or difficulty and without long drawn out speeches which never end! We will seize it with the help of Allah the Exalted with what Allah has decreed for us. And how easy is this for Allah! We know that the Muslims did not rule Palestine during the illustrious era of Islam except due to their Islam. And they did not conquer the capital cities of Persian, and the capital of Rome, and the capital of the Coptic except due to their Islam. Thus if only our youth were conscious and aware that absolute victory is not possible except with real Islam; not Islam which is identified by an I.D. card!
And perhaps some of you have heard the story of Sad ibn Abi Waqas may Allah be pleased with him. The Persians had destroyed the bridge over the Tigris River and sank the ships so the Muslims would not cross (the river) and reach them. So Allah subjugated the river for them. Thus they started walking on top of the water with their horses, their men, and their camels. They walked on top of the water just as they walked on top of the land. The water did not cover the hooves of the camels. When the horses became tired Allah facilitated a raised boulder so they could rest upon it. And this was from the signs of Allah no doubt. And Allah the Exalted has power over all things. Thus the One who split the sea for Musa peace be upon him and his people such that it instantly became a dry path for them and they walked therein safely; has the ability to do greater than that.
The point is; the children of Israel no doubt were the best of mankind when they were righteous slaves of Allah, but when they were afflicted with humiliation, and cursed, and debased, then they are no longer the best of mankind; rather some of them are monkeys and pigs. And they are the most debased slaves of Allah based upon the statement of the Exalted:
Indignity is put over them wherever they may be, except when under a covenant (of protection) from Allah, and from men; they have drawn on themselves the Wrath of Allah, and destruction is put over them. (Soorah Aali Imraan 3:112)
And the Exalted said:
They will not fight you all except within fortified cities or from behind walls. Their violence among themselves is severe. You think they are together, but their hearts are diverse. That is because they are a people who do not reason.
http://www.ibnothaimeen.com/all/books/a ... 6812.shtml
Translated by Rasheed ibn Estes Barbee
http://mtws.posthaven.com/palestine-doe ... he-muslims
FrankChag wrote:SuperiorMan wrote:What do you all think of this?
https://www.thejc.com/judaism/features/ ... ael-1.8278
Classical Islam accepts there is a divinely ordained bond between the Jewish People and ‘the Holy Land’, say some scholars.
False. The correct opinion regarding this is that Palestine does not belong to the Jews/Arabs/Palestinians (ie these races), it belongs to the Muslims.
https://mtws.posthaven.com/palestine-do ... he-muslimsTafseer Shaykh Uthaymeen
"O Children of Israel, remember my favor that I have bestowed upon you and that I preferred you over the worlds." (Soorah Al Baqarah 2:47)
Shaykh Uthaymeen: From the benefits of this verse:
1. It is obligatory upon the children of Israel to remember Allah’s favor upon them and to show gratitude for it. And from showing gratitude is for them to follow Muhammad peace be upon him.
2. Clarifying that this favor was not earned by them, or due to their hard work, nor was it inherited from their fathers; rather it was only a favor from Allah upon them. Thus Allah said: ‘I have bestowed upon you.’
3. The children of Israel were the best of mankind during their era, based upon the statement of the Exalted: ‘I preferred you over the worlds.’ This is because during that time they were people of faith. As a result victory was decreed for them over their enormous enemies. It was said to them:
Enter the Holy Land which Allah has assigned to you (Soorah Al Maidah 5:21)
And the Holy Land is Palestine. And Allah only assigned the land of Palestine to the children of Israel during the time of Musa because they were righteous slaves of Allah. And Allah the Exalted said:
And indeed we have written in Psalms after (We have already written in) Al-Lauh Al-Mahfuz, that my righteous slaves shall inherit the land. (Soorah Al Anbiyah 21:105)
And Musa said to his people:
Indeed, the earth belongs to Allah. He causes to inherit it whom He wills of His servants. (Soorah Al ‘Araf 7:218)
Then he said:
And the [best outcome is for the righteous.
Therefore the righteous shall inherit the earth; but the children of Israel today do not deserve the Holy land, because they are not righteous slaves of Allah; as for during the time of Musa, they were more deserving of it than those who lived there. And it was written for them, and they were the most deserving of it. But when Islam (which was brought by the Prophet, peace be upon him) came, then the most deserving people of this land became the Muslims. Not the Arabs; because Palestine is not Arab such that the people deserving Palestine can be described as Arabs; rather the people deserving of Palestine are Muslims, their description is Muslim. They have no other description. And they can be called righteous slaves of Allah the Exalted. For this reason the Arabs will never succeed (according to what I believe and the knowledge is with Allah) in recovering Palestine in the name of Pan-Arabism. It is not possible to recover it except with the name Islam upon what the Prophet peace be upon him and his companions were upon. As the Exalted said:
Indeed, the earth belongs to Allah. He causes to inherit it, whom He wills of His servants. (Soorah Al ‘Araf 7:218)
Regardless of what the Arabs try; and regardless of how they fill the earth with speeches and protest; they will never be susuccessful until they call for the Jews to exit from it with the name of Islam; after they apply it (Islam) in themselves. If they do this then they shall actualize what the Prophet peace be upon him has informed us of:
The hour will not be established until the Muslims fight the Jews. The Muslims will kill them such that the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees. So the rock or the tree will say: O Muslim, O slave of Allah, here is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.
Thus the trees and rocks will direct the Muslims to the Jews saying O slave of Allah; calling him by the name of servitude to Allah; and it will say: O Muslim; calling him by the name of Islam. The Messenger peace be upon him said: ‘The Muslims will fight the Jews.’ He did not say the ‘Arabs’.
For this reason I say: We will never remove the Jews by the call of Pan-Arabism, we will only remove them with the name of Islam. Whoever wants let him recite the statement of the Exalted:
And indeed We have written in Psalms after (We have already written in) Al-Lauh Al-Mahfuz, that My righteous slaves shall inherit the land.
(Soorah Al Anbiyah 21:105)
Thus He made the inheritance for His righteous slaves. And that which is connected to a description will occur when the description is present, and it will be negated when the description is negated. If we are righteous slaves of Allah we will inherit it with complete ease, without any hardship, toil or difficulty and without long drawn out speeches which never end! We will seize it with the help of Allah the Exalted with what Allah has decreed for us. And how easy is this for Allah! We know that the Muslims did not rule Palestine during the illustrious era of Islam except due to their Islam. And they did not conquer the capital cities of Persian, and the capital of Rome, and the capital of the Coptic except due to their Islam. Thus if only our youth were conscious and aware that absolute victory is not possible except with real Islam; not Islam which is identified by an I.D. card!
And perhaps some of you have heard the story of Sad ibn Abi Waqas may Allah be pleased with him. The Persians had destroyed the bridge over the Tigris River and sank the ships so the Muslims would not cross (the river) and reach them. So Allah subjugated the river for them. Thus they started walking on top of the water with their horses, their men, and their camels. They walked on top of the water just as they walked on top of the land. The water did not cover the hooves of the camels. When the horses became tired Allah facilitated a raised boulder so they could rest upon it. And this was from the signs of Allah no doubt. And Allah the Exalted has power over all things. Thus the One who split the sea for Musa peace be upon him and his people such that it instantly became a dry path for them and they walked therein safely; has the ability to do greater than that.
The point is; the children of Israel no doubt were the best of mankind when they were righteous slaves of Allah, but when they were afflicted with humiliation, and cursed, and debased, then they are no longer the best of mankind; rather some of them are monkeys and pigs. And they are the most debased slaves of Allah based upon the statement of the Exalted:
Indignity is put over them wherever they may be, except when under a covenant (of protection) from Allah, and from men; they have drawn on themselves the Wrath of Allah, and destruction is put over them. (Soorah Aali Imraan 3:112)
And the Exalted said:
They will not fight you all except within fortified cities or from behind walls. Their violence among themselves is severe. You think they are together, but their hearts are diverse. That is because they are a people who do not reason.
http://www.ibnothaimeen.com/all/books/a ... 6812.shtml
Translated by Rasheed ibn Estes Barbee
http://mtws.posthaven.com/palestine-doe ... he-muslims
FrankChag wrote:I meant the correct opinion regarding the Islamic position. (vs some rando Imaam misquoting at-Tabari).
Wraith King wrote:FrankChag wrote:I meant the correct opinion regarding the Islamic position. (vs some rando Imaam misquoting at-Tabari).
If both sides believe they have a divine right to the lands, why is the Islamic stance the correct opinion?
Wraith King wrote:Doesn't the Bible have an alternate version?
Wraith King wrote:FrankChag wrote:I meant the correct opinion regarding the Islamic position. (vs some rando Imaam misquoting at-Tabari).
If both sides believe they have a divine right to the lands, why is the Islamic stance the correct opinion?
matr1x wrote:I love the war. Dumb people dying is half the fun when you realize that the land is not fertile
SuperiorMan wrote:Wraith King wrote:FrankChag wrote:I meant the correct opinion regarding the Islamic position. (vs some rando Imaam misquoting at-Tabari).
If both sides believe they have a divine right to the lands, why is the Islamic stance the correct opinion?
This is the point I raised to him....Is it basically whose book is right? The Old Testament vs the Koran then?
FrankChag wrote:SuperiorMan wrote:Wraith King wrote:FrankChag wrote:I meant the correct opinion regarding the Islamic position. (vs some rando Imaam misquoting at-Tabari).
If both sides believe they have a divine right to the lands, why is the Islamic stance the correct opinion?
This is the point I raised to him....Is it basically whose book is right? The Old Testament vs the Koran then?
Alors, let's summarize this portion of the thread, no?
- SM tries to pull some rando Imaam's opinion from the Jewish Chronicle as evidence. Asks for input.
- FC responds that this is a rando opinion from some rando Imaam quoted on a Jewish site (obvious bias).
- FC posts the correct Islamic position regarding the Issue from a renowned Islamic Scholar (Shaykh Uthaymeen), which basically says SM's rando Imaam quote is off.
- WK still asking about divine rights to the land.
So, to summarize the way out of this, from Sh. Uthaymeen's tafsir above,
- Ultimately God owns all the land, everywhere. All of creation tbh.
- God will give the land to His Righteous Slaves (ie the Muslims) when they become His righteous slaves...
- so (and this is me now) there's something they're doing that's preventing that (like maybe working with the terrorist state Iran and Hammas maybe? or not just leaving? or remaining patient and learning their deen properly? or outright praying? I don't know).
Regarding the Israeli apartheid of the Palestinian people though, that is a different matter. Opression/War-crimes, etc.
Same with China and the Uyghurs, Rawanda, Bosnia, Mandela and the s/Africans,.... The First peoples in Australia, the First peoples on American Reservations... oppression of weaker people for their land is not a new thing to humankind, and it's wrong wherever you find it.
Good people should speak out against any kind of oppression like this.
timelapse wrote:Like I said before, both of them seem to have a God that cares deeply about real estate...
When will you peons realize that God doesn't care about you and your living conditions.You are not blessed or highly favored , as this will imply that God plays favorites with his creations.God is the truth, religion is the lie
FrankChag wrote:^ if that was your intention, then I apologize.
alfa wrote:Wraith King wrote:FrankChag wrote:I meant the correct opinion regarding the Islamic position. (vs some rando Imaam misquoting at-Tabari).
If both sides believe they have a divine right to the lands, why is the Islamic stance the correct opinion?
If you take the religious aspect out of it the Palestinians have been occupying the land for centuries before 1948 at which time the British decided to create a home land for Jews. They then moved en mass and kicked out the Palestinians. They fought back in 1968 with other Arab countries, lost the 6 day war and Israel captured more land to add to which they didn't have a moral right to take in the first place but did so because of a legal mandate issued by the Brits. And we have seen how many times have the legal system screwed over what is morally right based on a legal technicality or loophole.
And the Palestinians have been fighting back ever since with having to resort to terrorism (which can be classed as guerrilla warfare depending on who it is directed by and against and also who you ask.) Someone threw you out of your own house and you cannot report it to the police or seek any redress and you might understandably want to become a suicide bomber because your literally lost everything cannot do anything and just want revenge.
That takes the ambiguous religious element out of it if you look at it in terms of possessions and land. It's the same with South Africa, the white man did steal the land from the natives but if you as a present day white farmer built an entire life there for generations it doesn't give the natives the right to take it back now. We might as well hand over Arima to the Amerindians if we go down that slippery road. We aren't responsible for the doings of our ancestors just as the Palestinians aren't responsible for the Jews getting the boot thousands of years ago and bring persecuted ever since. We can only deal with what is at the moment
FrankChag wrote:SuperiorMan wrote:Wraith King wrote:FrankChag wrote:I meant the correct opinion regarding the Islamic position. (vs some rando Imaam misquoting at-Tabari).
If both sides believe they have a divine right to the lands, why is the Islamic stance the correct opinion?
This is the point I raised to him....Is it basically whose book is right? The Old Testament vs the Koran then?
Alors, let's summarize this portion of the thread, no?
- SM tries to pull some rando Imaam's opinion from the Jewish Chronicle as evidence. Asks for input.
- FC responds that this is a rando opinion from some rando Imaam quoted on a Jewish site (obvious bias).
- FC posts the correct Islamic position regarding the Issue from a renowned Islamic Scholar (Shaykh Uthaymeen), which basically says SM's rando Imaam quote is off.
- WK still asking about divine rights to the land.
So, to summarize the way out of this, from Sh. Uthaymeen's tafsir above,
- Ultimately God owns all the land, everywhere. All of creation tbh.
- God will give the land to His Righteous Slaves (ie the Muslims) when they become His righteous slaves...
- so (and this is me now) there's something they're doing that's preventing that (like maybe working with the terrorist state Iran and Hammas maybe? or not just leaving? or remaining patient and learning their deen properly? or outright praying? I don't know).
Regarding the Israeli apartheid of the Palestinian people though, that is a different matter. Opression/War-crimes, etc.
Same with China and the Uyghurs, Rawanda, Bosnia, Mandela and the s/Africans,.... The First peoples in Australia, the First peoples on American Reservations... oppression of weaker people for their land is not a new thing to humankind, and it's wrong wherever you find it.
Good people should speak out against any kind of oppression like this.
timelapse wrote:Is basically squatters that wrong and strong because 'woke' people supporting them.This going to continue for centuries to come because the chief witness 'God' isnt going to come and make a definitive statement and both sides quoting him.
Wraith King wrote:FrankChag wrote:SuperiorMan wrote:Wraith King wrote:FrankChag wrote:I meant the correct opinion regarding the Islamic position. (vs some rando Imaam misquoting at-Tabari).
If both sides believe they have a divine right to the lands, why is the Islamic stance the correct opinion?
This is the point I raised to him....Is it basically whose book is right? The Old Testament vs the Koran then?
Alors, let's summarize this portion of the thread, no?
- SM tries to pull some rando Imaam's opinion from the Jewish Chronicle as evidence. Asks for input.
- FC responds that this is a rando opinion from some rando Imaam quoted on a Jewish site (obvious bias).
- FC posts the correct Islamic position regarding the Issue from a renowned Islamic Scholar (Shaykh Uthaymeen), which basically says SM's rando Imaam quote is off.
- WK still asking about divine rights to the land.
So, to summarize the way out of this, from Sh. Uthaymeen's tafsir above,
- Ultimately God owns all the land, everywhere. All of creation tbh.
- God will give the land to His Righteous Slaves (ie the Muslims) when they become His righteous slaves...
- so (and this is me now) there's something they're doing that's preventing that (like maybe working with the terrorist state Iran and Hammas maybe? or not just leaving? or remaining patient and learning their deen properly? or outright praying? I don't know).
Regarding the Israeli apartheid of the Palestinian people though, that is a different matter. Opression/War-crimes, etc.
Same with China and the Uyghurs, Rawanda, Bosnia, Mandela and the s/Africans,.... The First peoples in Australia, the First peoples on American Reservations... oppression of weaker people for their land is not a new thing to humankind, and it's wrong wherever you find it.
Good people should speak out against any kind of oppression like this.
I must ask the question as that's what you were claiming. Are you claiming Muslims have a divine claim to the entire earth?
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