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Economist: The country is almost broke

this is how we do it.......

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elec2020
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Re: Economist: The country is almost broke

Postby elec2020 » May 15th, 2021, 9:50 am

Habit7 wrote:I remember some years ago I had an office overlooking QPS. T&TEC was digging up across the savannah to lay underground cables. It was making the place dusty but today you won't even know they were there.

I remember PEA come on FB and say the 1% trying to steal the savannah and he will fight them on FB because they are afraid of him. :roll:

I pity the ppl who listen to him.


idk how this man bamboozle people to following him. They that desperate for someone other than PNM and UNC? Its sad that other politicians haven't realized that and formed there own party. They rather play it safe.

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Re: Economist: The country is almost broke

Postby elec2020 » May 15th, 2021, 9:51 am

SuperiorMan wrote:All yuh fellas sometimes don't think he trolling?


i thought so but it going on too long. And he keep on getting sued for the same sheit. So it must be that that is really just how he is

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Re: Economist: The country is almost broke

Postby sMASH » June 23rd, 2021, 10:02 pm

https://trinidadexpress.com/business/lo ... 38979.html


express wrote:
Govt must honour VAT obligations

May 25, 2021 Updated May 26, 2021



The Trinidad and Tobago Chamber of Industry and Commerce was pleased to hear Colm Imbert, Minister of Finance, refer to the matter of paying VAT refunds, during the Q&A segment of the Ministry of Finance’s press conferences on May 10 and 21. We now look forward to further details on how the outstanding refunds will be addressed as some businesses stand on the brink of closure and need the monies legally owed to them as soon as possible.

As stated by the Minister of Finance, the Government relies on the collection of tax revenue to finance expenditure. However, we have an ongoing situation where the Government has been delinquent in payment of VAT and tax refunds to businesses while utilising those funds to meet its own cash requirements.

We have actively engaged the Minister of Finance on this matter since the end of 2017 and wrote him again over two weeks ago but we have not yet received a response. A number of possible solutions have already been proffered to the Government, some dating back to 2018. Being cognisant of the cash flow challenge to the State coffers, the Chamber proposed the following:

• Issuance of a certificate or some similar document when VAT refunds become due (without giving a commitment to a payment date) and making a commitment to the interest as set out in the Value Added Tax Act Chapter 75:06 (VAT Act). This will allow the company to approach their bankers for loan facilities to match the amount owed by the BIR and fund the increased cost with the interest earned.

• Allow companies to offset the refunds owed to them with VAT and/or tax payments due, based on the BIR’s confirmation of the refund amount. While this is not currently allowed in existing laws, the current situation is untenable.

• With specific reference to the manufacturing sector, we recommend:

• The implementation of a VAT exemption on raw material inputs for manufacturers; and/or

• The implementation of a VAT exemption on raw material inputs for manufacturers who have a level of exports which results in consistent VAT refunds; and/or

• The offset of overdue refunds against VAT payments for imports of raw materials; and/or

• The offset of overdue VAT refunds against all VAT payments due when filing a VAT return; and/or

• Removal of VAT on raw materials for companies which have zero-rated manufactured products for local sale.

In the 2019 budget presentation, the Minister of Finance said, “I would ensure that VAT refunds are put on a current basis which would lead to regular cash flows for business investment, greater economic activity and the avoidance of the evasion of value added tax.” He also committed in the 2020 Budget to a VAT bond issue of “$3 billion, in the first instance” to all eligible businesses to meet VAT arrears.

Approximately $3.5 billion of the $6.2 billion was settled over the last year. The Minister further indicated that approximately 98 per cent of refunds to small businesses has been paid. However, the feedback we have received from our members indicate that a large number of refunds are still outstanding and the amounts continue to increase.

Additionally, the interest due by law was not paid and once again businesses are reporting that the payment of refunds are not being kept current. The VAT Act states that refunds due from government, which are not paid within six months will attract interest of`1 per cent per month. However businesses which are owed money by Government are being charged penalties and interest if their payments are even one day late. The Government must follow the law just as businesses do. While the Covid-19 pandemic has taken the country to a very different place, the economic situation is no reason not to abide by the law and honour the commitments made.

The Government has made a commitment to support export growth through establishment of programmes such as allocating $50 million to the Export Booster Initiative. However they are disincentivising exports through the non-payment of refunds.

We have an example of a family-owned company in business for over 50 years, which has grown its exports substantially, accounting for approximately 50 per cent of its sales. Its goal was to be a net earner of foreign exchange but as their exports grew, so have their VAT refunds, which is now due every VAT cycle. The refund amounts owed go back almost four years. The business no longer has the cash to pay for imports and operating costs, so they run the risk of closure. They, like many other businesses are legally obligated to pay VAT on their imports, pay taxes and VAT when filing returns, while simultaneously being owed large amounts of refunds. There has been no clear commitment from the Government on the timing for the repayment of amounts due.

The sad fact is this story is not unique. There are dozens of businesses which have reached out to ask for our support. In fact, the T&T Chamber has been advocating on this matter on behalf of the business community for over five years.

This situation is also impacting the country’s ability to recover from the current economic challenges as some businesses are no longer able to invest and export due to the amounts owed to them.

Our members and the wider business community continue to pursue productive initiatives that the government wishes to encourage such as capital investment and increased exports, however these transactions result in VAT refunds and the impact of the delays in payment could deter organisations from these activities. If we are to weather the Covid-19 storm, Government must do all it can to honour its legal obligations to businesses so that they continue to operate and maintain a productive economy. Understanding and treating with VAT refunds as a critical issue of business continuity would be a step in the right direction.

We would welcome constructive dialogue with a view to adopting creative solutions to remove this thorn in the side of both business and Government.

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Re: Economist: The country is almost broke

Postby ProtonPowder » June 24th, 2021, 12:37 am

interest free loan to the government

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Re: Economist: The country is almost broke

Postby zoom rader » June 24th, 2021, 7:18 am

Again small man who paying Taxes have nutting to get

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Re: Economist: The country is almost broke

Postby viedcht » June 24th, 2021, 8:38 am

zoom rader wrote:Again small man who paying Taxes have nutting to get
Some. Some small men pay taxes. Hummuch doubles vendors have a BIR account? Service people; Taxi, Aircon, mechanic, vegetable stall, fish/ meat stall, parlour...? Plenty more.

The thing in this country is, people will skinnout when things not working properly and bawl how we gone thru, treasury empty, why all them CG vessel ent using after we spend so much ah we tax money, why we spend all dat money on rapid rail duncek0ntfowlf0wkery, why govamint let AV off so easy... All dat muddahk0ntishness... I will neither agree nor disagree on any points put forward by either side, but I have a problem with people riding the back of us who paying all our taxes; sales tax, health surcharge, AND income tax. Is time GORTT start dealing with this leak, because it seems the ones bumping dey oily gum (not you eh Zoom... respect ) is the one who does pay the most minimal of taxes.

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Re: Economist: The country is almost broke

Postby hover11 » June 24th, 2021, 8:40 am

Ppl pay VAT and bawl they pay taxes
viedcht wrote:
zoom rader wrote:Again small man who paying Taxes have nutting to get
Some. Some small men pay taxes. Hummuch doubles vendors have a BIR account? Service people; Taxi, Aircon, mechanic, vegetable stall, fish/ meat stall, parlour...? Plenty more.

The thing in this country is, people will skinnout when things not working properly and bawl how we gone thru, treasury empty, why all them CG vessel ent using after we spend so much ah we tax money, why we spend all dat money on rapid rail duncek0ntfowlf0wkery, why govamint let AV off so easy... All dat muddahk0ntishness... I will neither agree nor disagree on any points put forward by either side, but I have a problem with people riding the back of us who paying all our taxes; sales tax, health surcharge, AND income tax. Is time GORTT start dealing with this leak, because it seems the ones bumping dey oily gum (not you eh Zoom... respect ) is the one who does pay the most minimal of taxes.

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Re: Economist: The country is almost broke

Postby Dave » June 24th, 2021, 8:47 am

Most users of the system don't contribute to the system and are the first to shout abuse and inequality.
viedcht wrote:
zoom rader wrote:Again small man who paying Taxes have nutting to get
Some. Some small men pay taxes. Hummuch doubles vendors have a BIR account? Service people; Taxi, Aircon, mechanic, vegetable stall, fish/ meat stall, parlour...? Plenty more.

The thing in this country is, people will skinnout when things not working properly and bawl how we gone thru, treasury empty, why all them CG vessel ent using after we spend so much ah we tax money, why we spend all dat money on rapid rail duncek0ntfowlf0wkery, why govamint let AV off so easy... All dat muddahk0ntishness... I will neither agree nor disagree on any points put forward by either side, but I have a problem with people riding the back of us who paying all our taxes; sales tax, health surcharge, AND income tax. Is time GORTT start dealing with this leak, because it seems the ones bumping dey oily gum (not you eh Zoom... respect ) is the one who does pay the most minimal of taxes.

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Re: Economist: The country is almost broke

Postby AlphaMan » June 24th, 2021, 6:20 pm

zoom rader wrote:Again small man who paying Taxes have nutting to get

Who are you? Heard alot of people talk about you around here :drinking:

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Re: Economist: The country is almost broke

Postby zoom rader » June 24th, 2021, 8:01 pm

AlphaMan wrote:
zoom rader wrote:Again small man who paying Taxes have nutting to get

Who are you? Heard alot of people talk about you around here :drinking:
I try to free my African brothers that are held in slavery by the red government.

That's all I do on tuner.

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Re: Economist: The country is almost broke

Postby AlphaMan » June 24th, 2021, 8:12 pm

zoom rader wrote:
AlphaMan wrote:
zoom rader wrote:Again small man who paying Taxes have nutting to get

Who are you? Heard alot of people talk about you around here :drinking:
I try to free my African brothers that are held in slavery by the red government.

That's all I do on tuner.

You get banned alot for doing it... :agrue:

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Re: Economist: The country is almost broke

Postby zoom rader » June 24th, 2021, 8:15 pm

AlphaMan wrote:
zoom rader wrote:
AlphaMan wrote:
zoom rader wrote:Again small man who paying Taxes have nutting to get

Who are you? Heard alot of people talk about you around here :drinking:
I try to free my African brothers that are held in slavery by the red government.

That's all I do on tuner.

You get banned alot for doing it... :agrue:
Yup

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Re: Economist: The country is almost broke

Postby ProtonPowder » June 28th, 2021, 2:53 am

https://trinidadexpress.com/business/lo ... 62e2c.html

... The NIB had 516,926 contributors for the 12 months ended June 30, 2015, according to its annual report that year. This means the number of NIB contributors fell by 21.8 per cent between 2015 and 2020. The number of beneficiaries increased by 0.9 per cent from 202,800 in 2019 to 204,613 in 2020.


:shock: :shock:
the amount of NIB contributors declined by 100k between 2015-2019 even before covid hit

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Re: Economist: The country is almost broke

Postby De Dragon » June 28th, 2021, 6:17 am

ProtonPowder wrote:https://trinidadexpress.com/business/local/nib-to-sell-assets-to-pay-benefits/article_72faf414-d6de-11eb-b6aa-f3d7cfb62e2c.html

... The NIB had 516,926 contributors for the 12 months ended June 30, 2015, according to its annual report that year. This means the number of NIB contributors fell by 21.8 per cent between 2015 and 2020. The number of beneficiaries increased by 0.9 per cent from 202,800 in 2019 to 204,613 in 2020.


:shock: :shock:
the amount of NIB contributors declined by 100k between 2015-2019 even before covid hit

That report presented by the NIB to Parliament paints a very bleak picture for the generation about to start receiving NIS benefits, and an even bleaker one for the next generation. GORTT needs to start encouraging people to have children to address the aging population/workforce.

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Re: Economist: The country is almost broke

Postby 88sins » June 28th, 2021, 6:26 am

ProtonPowder wrote:https://trinidadexpress.com/business/local/nib-to-sell-assets-to-pay-benefits/article_72faf414-d6de-11eb-b6aa-f3d7cfb62e2c.html

... The NIB had 516,926 contributors for the 12 months ended June 30, 2015, according to its annual report that year. This means the number of NIB contributors fell by 21.8 per cent between 2015 and 2020. The number of beneficiaries increased by 0.9 per cent from 202,800 in 2019 to 204,613 in 2020.


:shock: :shock:
the amount of NIB contributors declined by 100k between 2015-2019 even before covid hit

Sounds about right
Over the last 5 years a lot of state owned enterprises let go a lot of employees (petrotrin closure alone affected more than 6.5k jobs, not to tstt, regional corps, etc), and with the long running shortages of forex causing many small businesses to collapse and never recover. Add to that the influx of cheap vene labor that not paying contributions, and then covid hit and even more people unemployed. So yeah, that 100k less contributors sounds about correct. This was to be expected.

I waiting to hear when they say they increasing the rates again and raising the age to receive retirement pension to 70. And take what I tell you, they eventually will do both those things.
Is all a game of numbers, the more people put in and the less people reach the age to collect, the more free money the NIB makes. Remember, when you die before getting your retirement benefit, that money stays with them. They may pay out some of it to your spouse as a survivors benefit (if they qualify), but is otherwise in their best interest if you pay more in contributions while you alive and don't make it to pension age.

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Re: Economist: The country is almost broke

Postby hover11 » June 28th, 2021, 6:35 am

You do know that's how most insurance schemes work, that's how they make a profit, bear in mind rates have not increased since 2016 , we approaching 2022 with same 2016 rates.How in God's green earth can one make a profit when once a person makes 750 contributions ,which is 15 years of work you have to pay 3000 dollars even though they did not earn that 3000 dollars lets be real the Government both UNC and PNM destroyed NIB when every election time they came around singing the same song, "we will increase your pension" not even studying the repercussions...if you increase pension someone has to pay for that increase. It would be amazing if every pensioner could get 10k a month however who is paying for it? Also they need to highlight delinquent employers ,years ago they used to publish them in the newspapers and employers would rush to pay I believe we should return to the old time days
88sins wrote:
ProtonPowder wrote:https://trinidadexpress.com/business/local/nib-to-sell-assets-to-pay-benefits/article_72faf414-d6de-11eb-b6aa-f3d7cfb62e2c.html

... The NIB had 516,926 contributors for the 12 months ended June 30, 2015, according to its annual report that year. This means the number of NIB contributors fell by 21.8 per cent between 2015 and 2020. The number of beneficiaries increased by 0.9 per cent from 202,800 in 2019 to 204,613 in 2020.


:shock: :shock:
the amount of NIB contributors declined by 100k between 2015-2019 even before covid hit

Sounds about right
Over the last 5 years a lot of state owned enterprises let go a lot of employees (petrotrin closure alone affected more than 6.5k jobs, not to tstt, regional corps, etc), and with the long running shortages of forex causing many small businesses to collapse and never recover. Add to that the influx of cheap vene labor that not paying contributions, and then covid hit and even more people unemployed. So yeah, that 100k less contributors sounds about correct. This was to be expected.

I waiting to hear when they say they increasing the rates again and raising the age to receive retirement pension to 70. And take what I tell you, they eventually will do both those things.
Is all a game of numbers, the more people put in and the less people reach the age to collect, the more free money the NIB makes. Remember, when you die before getting your retirement benefit, that money stays with them. They may pay out some of it to your spouse as a survivors benefit (if they qualify), but is otherwise in their best interest if you pay more in contributions while you alive and don't make it to pension age.

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Re: Economist: The country is almost broke

Postby zoom rader » June 28th, 2021, 7:28 am

88sins wrote:
ProtonPowder wrote:https://trinidadexpress.com/business/local/nib-to-sell-assets-to-pay-benefits/article_72faf414-d6de-11eb-b6aa-f3d7cfb62e2c.html

... The NIB had 516,926 contributors for the 12 months ended June 30, 2015, according to its annual report that year. This means the number of NIB contributors fell by 21.8 per cent between 2015 and 2020. The number of beneficiaries increased by 0.9 per cent from 202,800 in 2019 to 204,613 in 2020.


:shock: :shock:
the amount of NIB contributors declined by 100k between 2015-2019 even before covid hit

Sounds about right
Over the last 5 years a lot of state owned enterprises let go a lot of employees (petrotrin closure alone affected more than 6.5k jobs, not to tstt, regional corps, etc), and with the long running shortages of forex causing many small businesses to collapse and never recover. Add to that the influx of cheap vene labor that not paying contributions, and then covid hit and even more people unemployed. So yeah, that 100k less contributors sounds about correct. This was to be expected.

I waiting to hear when they say they increasing the rates again and raising the age to receive retirement pension to 70. And take what I tell you, they eventually will do both those things.
Is all a game of numbers, the more people put in and the less people reach the age to collect, the more free money the NIB makes. Remember, when you die before getting your retirement benefit, that money stays with them. They may pay out some of it to your spouse as a survivors benefit (if they qualify), but is otherwise in their best interest if you pay more in contributions while you alive and don't make it to pension age.


REd Government Con job

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Re: Economist: The country is almost broke

Postby hover11 » June 28th, 2021, 7:30 am

Zoom UNC had a role to play in this as well, when Kams jump up and said we will raise your pensions....you didn't know when pensions increase someone has to pay that
zoom rader wrote:
88sins wrote:
ProtonPowder wrote:https://trinidadexpress.com/business/local/nib-to-sell-assets-to-pay-benefits/article_72faf414-d6de-11eb-b6aa-f3d7cfb62e2c.html

... The NIB had 516,926 contributors for the 12 months ended June 30, 2015, according to its annual report that year. This means the number of NIB contributors fell by 21.8 per cent between 2015 and 2020. The number of beneficiaries increased by 0.9 per cent from 202,800 in 2019 to 204,613 in 2020.


:shock: :shock:
the amount of NIB contributors declined by 100k between 2015-2019 even before covid hit

Sounds about right
Over the last 5 years a lot of state owned enterprises let go a lot of employees (petrotrin closure alone affected more than 6.5k jobs, not to tstt, regional corps, etc), and with the long running shortages of forex causing many small businesses to collapse and never recover. Add to that the influx of cheap vene labor that not paying contributions, and then covid hit and even more people unemployed. So yeah, that 100k less contributors sounds about correct. This was to be expected.

I waiting to hear when they say they increasing the rates again and raising the age to receive retirement pension to 70. And take what I tell you, they eventually will do both those things.
Is all a game of numbers, the more people put in and the less people reach the age to collect, the more free money the NIB makes. Remember, when you die before getting your retirement benefit, that money stays with them. They may pay out some of it to your spouse as a survivors benefit (if they qualify), but is otherwise in their best interest if you pay more in contributions while you alive and don't make it to pension age.


REd Government Con job

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Re: Economist: The country is almost broke

Postby De Dragon » June 28th, 2021, 7:35 am

hover11 wrote:You do know that's how most insurance schemes work, that's how they make a profit, bear in mind rates have not increased since 2016 , we approaching 2022 with same 2016 rates.How in God's green earth can one make a profit when once a person makes 750 contributions ,which is 15 years of work you have to pay 3000 dollars even though they did not earn that 3000 dollars lets be real the Government both UNC and PNM destroyed NIB when every election time they came around singing the same song, "we will increase your pension" not even studying the repercussions...if you increase pension someone has to pay for that increase. It would be amazing if every pensioner could get 10k a month however who is paying for it? Also they need to highlight delinquent employers ,years ago they used to publish them in the newspapers and employers would rush to pay I believe we should return to the old time days
88sins wrote:
ProtonPowder wrote:https://trinidadexpress.com/business/local/nib-to-sell-assets-to-pay-benefits/article_72faf414-d6de-11eb-b6aa-f3d7cfb62e2c.html

... The NIB had 516,926 contributors for the 12 months ended June 30, 2015, according to its annual report that year. This means the number of NIB contributors fell by 21.8 per cent between 2015 and 2020. The number of beneficiaries increased by 0.9 per cent from 202,800 in 2019 to 204,613 in 2020.


:shock: :shock:
the amount of NIB contributors declined by 100k between 2015-2019 even before covid hit

Sounds about right
Over the last 5 years a lot of state owned enterprises let go a lot of employees (petrotrin closure alone affected more than 6.5k jobs, not to tstt, regional corps, etc), and with the long running shortages of forex causing many small businesses to collapse and never recover. Add to that the influx of cheap vene labor that not paying contributions, and then covid hit and even more people unemployed. So yeah, that 100k less contributors sounds about correct. This was to be expected.

I waiting to hear when they say they increasing the rates again and raising the age to receive retirement pension to 70. And take what I tell you, they eventually will do both those things.
Is all a game of numbers, the more people put in and the less people reach the age to collect, the more free money the NIB makes. Remember, when you die before getting your retirement benefit, that money stays with them. They may pay out some of it to your spouse as a survivors benefit (if they qualify), but is otherwise in their best interest if you pay more in contributions while you alive and don't make it to pension age.

So NIB benefits should remain the same forever? Try surviving on $3000 a month in this day and age.

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Re: Economist: The country is almost broke

Postby hover11 » June 28th, 2021, 7:37 am

No problem but if you want it to increase then bear in mind that contributors must foot the bill for that increase , it's a give and take
De Dragon wrote:
hover11 wrote:You do know that's how most insurance schemes work, that's how they make a profit, bear in mind rates have not increased since 2016 , we approaching 2022 with same 2016 rates.How in God's green earth can one make a profit when once a person makes 750 contributions ,which is 15 years of work you have to pay 3000 dollars even though they did not earn that 3000 dollars lets be real the Government both UNC and PNM destroyed NIB when every election time they came around singing the same song, "we will increase your pension" not even studying the repercussions...if you increase pension someone has to pay for that increase. It would be amazing if every pensioner could get 10k a month however who is paying for it? Also they need to highlight delinquent employers ,years ago they used to publish them in the newspapers and employers would rush to pay I believe we should return to the old time days
88sins wrote:
ProtonPowder wrote:https://trinidadexpress.com/business/local/nib-to-sell-assets-to-pay-benefits/article_72faf414-d6de-11eb-b6aa-f3d7cfb62e2c.html

... The NIB had 516,926 contributors for the 12 months ended June 30, 2015, according to its annual report that year. This means the number of NIB contributors fell by 21.8 per cent between 2015 and 2020. The number of beneficiaries increased by 0.9 per cent from 202,800 in 2019 to 204,613 in 2020.


:shock: :shock:
the amount of NIB contributors declined by 100k between 2015-2019 even before covid hit

Sounds about right
Over the last 5 years a lot of state owned enterprises let go a lot of employees (petrotrin closure alone affected more than 6.5k jobs, not to tstt, regional corps, etc), and with the long running shortages of forex causing many small businesses to collapse and never recover. Add to that the influx of cheap vene labor that not paying contributions, and then covid hit and even more people unemployed. So yeah, that 100k less contributors sounds about correct. This was to be expected.

I waiting to hear when they say they increasing the rates again and raising the age to receive retirement pension to 70. And take what I tell you, they eventually will do both those things.
Is all a game of numbers, the more people put in and the less people reach the age to collect, the more free money the NIB makes. Remember, when you die before getting your retirement benefit, that money stays with them. They may pay out some of it to your spouse as a survivors benefit (if they qualify), but is otherwise in their best interest if you pay more in contributions while you alive and don't make it to pension age.

So NIB benefits should remain the same forever? Try surviving on $3000 a month in this day and age.

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Re: Economist: The country is almost broke

Postby zoom rader » June 28th, 2021, 11:05 am

hover11 wrote:Zoom UNC had a role to play in this as well, when Kams jump up and said we will raise your pensions....you didn't know when pensions increase someone has to pay that
zoom rader wrote:
88sins wrote:
ProtonPowder wrote:https://trinidadexpress.com/business/local/nib-to-sell-assets-to-pay-benefits/article_72faf414-d6de-11eb-b6aa-f3d7cfb62e2c.html

... The NIB had 516,926 contributors for the 12 months ended June 30, 2015, according to its annual report that year. This means the number of NIB contributors fell by 21.8 per cent between 2015 and 2020. The number of beneficiaries increased by 0.9 per cent from 202,800 in 2019 to 204,613 in 2020.


:shock: :shock:
the amount of NIB contributors declined by 100k between 2015-2019 even before covid hit

Sounds about right
Over the last 5 years a lot of state owned enterprises let go a lot of employees (petrotrin closure alone affected more than 6.5k jobs, not to tstt, regional corps, etc), and with the long running shortages of forex causing many small businesses to collapse and never recover. Add to that the influx of cheap vene labor that not paying contributions, and then covid hit and even more people unemployed. So yeah, that 100k less contributors sounds about correct. This was to be expected.

I waiting to hear when they say they increasing the rates again and raising the age to receive retirement pension to 70. And take what I tell you, they eventually will do both those things.
Is all a game of numbers, the more people put in and the less people reach the age to collect, the more free money the NIB makes. Remember, when you die before getting your retirement benefit, that money stays with them. They may pay out some of it to your spouse as a survivors benefit (if they qualify), but is otherwise in their best interest if you pay more in contributions while you alive and don't make it to pension age.


REd Government Con job
What do you expect when NIB gave our monies to 1% ? They got all the cream while citizens are told it have no monies.

1% will make a killing buying those assets.

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Dizzy28
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Re: Economist: The country is almost broke

Postby Dizzy28 » June 28th, 2021, 11:46 am

hover11 wrote:You do know that's how most insurance schemes work, that's how they make a profit, bear in mind rates have not increased since 2016 , we approaching 2022 with same 2016 rates.How in God's green earth can one make a profit when once a person makes 750 contributions ,which is 15 years of work you have to pay 3000 dollars even though they did not earn that 3000 dollars lets be real the Government both UNC and PNM destroyed NIB when every election time they came around singing the same song, "we will increase your pension" not even studying the repercussions...if you increase pension someone has to pay for that increase. It would be amazing if every pensioner could get 10k a month however who is paying for it? Also they need to highlight delinquent employers ,years ago they used to publish them in the newspapers and employers would rush to pay I believe we should return to the old time days
88sins wrote:
ProtonPowder wrote:https://trinidadexpress.com/business/local/nib-to-sell-assets-to-pay-benefits/article_72faf414-d6de-11eb-b6aa-f3d7cfb62e2c.html

... The NIB had 516,926 contributors for the 12 months ended June 30, 2015, according to its annual report that year. This means the number of NIB contributors fell by 21.8 per cent between 2015 and 2020. The number of beneficiaries increased by 0.9 per cent from 202,800 in 2019 to 204,613 in 2020.


:shock: :shock:
the amount of NIB contributors declined by 100k between 2015-2019 even before covid hit

Sounds about right
Over the last 5 years a lot of state owned enterprises let go a lot of employees (petrotrin closure alone affected more than 6.5k jobs, not to tstt, regional corps, etc), and with the long running shortages of forex causing many small businesses to collapse and never recover. Add to that the influx of cheap vene labor that not paying contributions, and then covid hit and even more people unemployed. So yeah, that 100k less contributors sounds about correct. This was to be expected.

I waiting to hear when they say they increasing the rates again and raising the age to receive retirement pension to 70. And take what I tell you, they eventually will do both those things.
Is all a game of numbers, the more people put in and the less people reach the age to collect, the more free money the NIB makes. Remember, when you die before getting your retirement benefit, that money stays with them. They may pay out some of it to your spouse as a survivors benefit (if they qualify), but is otherwise in their best interest if you pay more in contributions while you alive and don't make it to pension age.


Rates may be 2016 but a of people's salaries are also 2016 or older as well.

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hover11
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Re: Economist: The country is almost broke

Postby hover11 » June 28th, 2021, 11:49 am

That's not NIB fault That's the employer the government in this case for not negotiating with the unions however fact remains is that if rates dont increase and retirement age isn't increased then the system will collapse
Dizzy28 wrote:
hover11 wrote:You do know that's how most insurance schemes work, that's how they make a profit, bear in mind rates have not increased since 2016 , we approaching 2022 with same 2016 rates.How in God's green earth can one make a profit when once a person makes 750 contributions ,which is 15 years of work you have to pay 3000 dollars even though they did not earn that 3000 dollars lets be real the Government both UNC and PNM destroyed NIB when every election time they came around singing the same song, "we will increase your pension" not even studying the repercussions...if you increase pension someone has to pay for that increase. It would be amazing if every pensioner could get 10k a month however who is paying for it? Also they need to highlight delinquent employers ,years ago they used to publish them in the newspapers and employers would rush to pay I believe we should return to the old time days
88sins wrote:
ProtonPowder wrote:https://trinidadexpress.com/business/local/nib-to-sell-assets-to-pay-benefits/article_72faf414-d6de-11eb-b6aa-f3d7cfb62e2c.html

... The NIB had 516,926 contributors for the 12 months ended June 30, 2015, according to its annual report that year. This means the number of NIB contributors fell by 21.8 per cent between 2015 and 2020. The number of beneficiaries increased by 0.9 per cent from 202,800 in 2019 to 204,613 in 2020.


:shock: :shock:
the amount of NIB contributors declined by 100k between 2015-2019 even before covid hit

Sounds about right
Over the last 5 years a lot of state owned enterprises let go a lot of employees (petrotrin closure alone affected more than 6.5k jobs, not to tstt, regional corps, etc), and with the long running shortages of forex causing many small businesses to collapse and never recover. Add to that the influx of cheap vene labor that not paying contributions, and then covid hit and even more people unemployed. So yeah, that 100k less contributors sounds about correct. This was to be expected.

I waiting to hear when they say they increasing the rates again and raising the age to receive retirement pension to 70. And take what I tell you, they eventually will do both those things.
Is all a game of numbers, the more people put in and the less people reach the age to collect, the more free money the NIB makes. Remember, when you die before getting your retirement benefit, that money stays with them. They may pay out some of it to your spouse as a survivors benefit (if they qualify), but is otherwise in their best interest if you pay more in contributions while you alive and don't make it to pension age.


Rates may be 2016 but a of people's salaries are also 2016 or older as well.

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88sins
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Re: Economist: The country is almost broke

Postby 88sins » June 28th, 2021, 1:02 pm

hover11 wrote:You do know that's how most insurance schemes work, that's how they make a profit, bear in mind rates have not increased since 2016 , we approaching 2022 with same 2016 rates.How in God's green earth can one make a profit when once a person makes 750 contributions ,which is 15 years of work you have to pay 3000 dollars even though they did not earn that 3000 dollars lets be real the Government both UNC and PNM destroyed NIB when every election time they came around singing the same song, "we will increase your pension" not even studying the repercussions...if you increase pension someone has to pay for that increase. It would be amazing if every pensioner could get 10k a month however who is paying for it? Also they need to highlight delinquent employers ,years ago they used to publish them in the newspapers and employers would rush to pay I believe we should return to the old time days
88sins wrote:
ProtonPowder wrote:https://trinidadexpress.com/business/local/nib-to-sell-assets-to-pay-benefits/article_72faf414-d6de-11eb-b6aa-f3d7cfb62e2c.html
... The NIB had 516,926 contributors for the 12 months ended June 30, 2015, according to its annual report that year. This means the number of NIB contributors fell by 21.8 per cent between 2015 and 2020. The number of beneficiaries increased by 0.9 per cent from 202,800 in 2019 to 204,613 in 2020.


:shock: :shock:
the amount of NIB contributors declined by 100k between 2015-2019 even before covid hit

Sounds about right
Over the last 5 years a lot of state owned enterprises let go a lot of employees (petrotrin closure alone affected more than 6.5k jobs, not to tstt, regional corps, etc), and with the long running shortages of forex causing many small businesses to collapse and never recover. Add to that the influx of cheap vene labor that not paying contributions, and then covid hit and even more people unemployed. So yeah, that 100k less contributors sounds about correct. This was to be expected.

I waiting to hear when they say they increasing the rates again and raising the age to receive retirement pension to 70. And take what I tell you, they eventually will do both those things.
Is all a game of numbers, the more people put in and the less people reach the age to collect, the more free money the NIB makes. Remember, when you die before getting your retirement benefit, that money stays with them. They may pay out some of it to your spouse as a survivors benefit (if they qualify), but is otherwise in their best interest if you pay more in contributions while you alive and don't make it to pension age.

I get your point, but imho NIB shouldn't be operating in order to turn a profit, that entity should strive to stay on their break even point. Because for them to turn a profit by not paying out, somebody that paid their contributions hadda get shorted. And that ain't right.
You missing a very important factor. You have to make a minimum of 750 contributions to qualify for the retirement benefit. Most people make MUCH more contributions than that, because as long as you are employed you are legally obligated to pay contributions until you reach 60 years old. So, assuming you start working at 18, and retire at 60, with no significant gaps in employment and paid contributions consistently, you would make 2184 contributions. Factor in the people that don't make it to receive their benefit due to death, incarceration, migration etc., and you will realize something. NIB has the capability to be making bank, but prefer to be seen as running at a loss.


As regards 2016 rates, boi I could call some big name companies that have people working as full-time employees and they eh see a salary increase in nearly a decade. No joke.
Granted, pensions need to increase. But only because in this country the sad reality is that the cost of living is forever increasing and people on fixed incomes does be ketchin hell to survive. If local markets and industries were better regulated and governed, increases in pensions wouldn't be necessary.

Thank God I had the sense to start my own pension fund years ago as a young man. Because we eh kno what gonna happen with NIB in the next 10-20 years.

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hover11
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Re: Economist: The country is almost broke

Postby hover11 » June 28th, 2021, 2:18 pm

I understand what you saying about break even but how can an organization in this regard break even when it is continuously spending more than it earns, it is social security we get that however if these losses continue it will become a taxpayer bailout in the billions so it's either we take a bitter pill now to increase contributions or face the effects of a bailout in the years to come....look at the banks that we place our money , just to get a statement we have to pay money....they can charge 10 dollars for a NIS statement of contributions, compliance certificates for tendering purposes charge a nominal fee if that organization needed to make money there are many ways that it can....without burdening the contributors as much
88sins wrote:
hover11 wrote:You do know that's how most insurance schemes work, that's how they make a profit, bear in mind rates have not increased since 2016 , we approaching 2022 with same 2016 rates.How in God's green earth can one make a profit when once a person makes 750 contributions ,which is 15 years of work you have to pay 3000 dollars even though they did not earn that 3000 dollars lets be real the Government both UNC and PNM destroyed NIB when every election time they came around singing the same song, "we will increase your pension" not even studying the repercussions...if you increase pension someone has to pay for that increase. It would be amazing if every pensioner could get 10k a month however who is paying for it? Also they need to highlight delinquent employers ,years ago they used to publish them in the newspapers and employers would rush to pay I believe we should return to the old time days
88sins wrote:
ProtonPowder wrote:https://trinidadexpress.com/business/local/nib-to-sell-assets-to-pay-benefits/article_72faf414-d6de-11eb-b6aa-f3d7cfb62e2c.html
... The NIB had 516,926 contributors for the 12 months ended June 30, 2015, according to its annual report that year. This means the number of NIB contributors fell by 21.8 per cent between 2015 and 2020. The number of beneficiaries increased by 0.9 per cent from 202,800 in 2019 to 204,613 in 2020.


:shock: :shock:
the amount of NIB contributors declined by 100k between 2015-2019 even before covid hit

Sounds about right
Over the last 5 years a lot of state owned enterprises let go a lot of employees (petrotrin closure alone affected more than 6.5k jobs, not to tstt, regional corps, etc), and with the long running shortages of forex causing many small businesses to collapse and never recover. Add to that the influx of cheap vene labor that not paying contributions, and then covid hit and even more people unemployed. So yeah, that 100k less contributors sounds about correct. This was to be expected.

I waiting to hear when they say they increasing the rates again and raising the age to receive retirement pension to 70. And take what I tell you, they eventually will do both those things.
Is all a game of numbers, the more people put in and the less people reach the age to collect, the more free money the NIB makes. Remember, when you die before getting your retirement benefit, that money stays with them. They may pay out some of it to your spouse as a survivors benefit (if they qualify), but is otherwise in their best interest if you pay more in contributions while you alive and don't make it to pension age.

I get your point, but imho NIB shouldn't be operating in order to turn a profit, that entity should strive to stay on their break even point. Because for them to turn a profit by not paying out, somebody that paid their contributions hadda get shorted. And that ain't right.
You missing a very important factor. You have to make a minimum of 750 contributions to qualify for the retirement benefit. Most people make MUCH more contributions than that, because as long as you are employed you are legally obligated to pay contributions until you reach 60 years old. So, assuming you start working at 18, and retire at 60, with no significant gaps in employment and paid contributions consistently, you would make 2184 contributions. Factor in the people that don't make it to receive their benefit due to death, incarceration, migration etc., and you will realize something. NIB has the capability to be making bank, but prefer to be seen as running at a loss.


As regards 2016 rates, boi I could call some big name companies that have people working as full-time employees and they eh see a salary increase in nearly a decade. No joke.
Granted, pensions need to increase. But only because in this country the sad reality is that the cost of living is forever increasing and people on fixed incomes does be ketchin hell to survive. If local markets and industries were better regulated and governed, increases in pensions wouldn't be necessary.

Thank God I had the sense to start my own pension fund years ago as a young man. Because we eh kno what gonna happen with NIB in the next 10-20 years.
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88sins
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Re: Economist: The country is almost broke

Postby 88sins » June 28th, 2021, 4:35 pm

The pill is only bitter when the state decides to use taxpayers money to bail out private companies that made millions in profits over the years and squandered just as much if not more with bs "bonuses" and "incentives" to the executives that ran the business into the ground. Companies that but for the mass ineptitude and irresponsible practices that they chose to adopt and maintain wouldn't need a bailout. People will be annoyed, and will vocalize this.

When the state uses John Publics tax dollars to make sure Johnny and Joe Public don't starve to death because the state chose to put them out of work or because they too old to work, that's a whole other story, and you won't hear nary a murmur against it.

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Re: Economist: The country is almost broke

Postby SuperiorMan » October 13th, 2021, 5:42 pm

IMF: T&T economy to contract by 1% in 2021

https://guardian.co.tt/business/imf-tt- ... eb7cd2f3ee


Trinidad and Tobago’s economy is expected to contract by one per cent this year, the International Monetary Fund has projected in its latest World Economic Outlook.

This is a drop from the projection of economic growth of 2.1 per cent that the IMF had predicted in July.

According to the IMF, T&T is expected to experience economic growth of 5.4 per cent next year with growth of 1.6 per cent projected for 2026.

Of all the countries in the Latin America and Caribbean region, Guyana is expected to register the highest level of economic growth, the IMF projected.

Guyana is projected to experience economic growth of 20.4 per cent this year.

Overall the LAC region is expected to record economic growth of 6.3 per cent in 2021, the IMF stated.

“Compared to our July forecast, the global growth projection for 2021 has been revised down marginally to 5.9 percent and is unchanged for 2022 at 4.9 per cent,” Gita Gopinath, the Economic Counsellor and Director of Research, stated.

“This modest headline revision, however, masks large downgrades for some countries. The outlook for the low-income developing country group has darkened considerably due to worsening pandemic dynamics. The downgrade also reflects more difficult near-term prospects for the advanced economy group, in part due to supply disruptions. Partially offsetting these changes, projections for some commodity exporters have been upgraded on the back of rising commodity prices. Pandemic-related disruptions to contact-intensive sectors have caused the labour market recovery to significantly lag the output recovery in most countries,” she stated.

Gopinath stated that the dangerous divergence in economic prospects across countries remains a major concern.

“These economic divergences are a consequence of large disparities in vaccine access and in policy support,” she stated.

Gopinath stated that recent developments have made it abundantly clear that we are all in this together and the pandemic is not over anywhere until it is over everywhere.

“If COVID-19 were to have a prolonged impact into the medium term, it could reduce global GDP by a cumulative $5.3 trillion over the next five years relative to our current projection. It does not have to be this way. The global community must step up efforts to ensure equitable vaccine access for every country, overcome vaccine hesitancy where there is adequate supply, and secure better economic prospects for all,” she stated.

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hover11
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Re: Economist: The country is almost broke

Postby hover11 » October 13th, 2021, 5:49 pm

SuperiorMan wrote:IMF: T&T economy to contract by 1% in 2021

https://guardian.co.tt/business/imf-tt- ... eb7cd2f3ee


Trinidad and Tobago’s economy is expected to contract by one per cent this year, the International Monetary Fund has projected in its latest World Economic Outlook.

This is a drop from the projection of economic growth of 2.1 per cent that the IMF had predicted in July.

According to the IMF, T&T is expected to experience economic growth of 5.4 per cent next year with growth of 1.6 per cent projected for 2026.

Of all the countries in the Latin America and Caribbean region, Guyana is expected to register the highest level of economic growth, the IMF projected.

Guyana is projected to experience economic growth of 20.4 per cent this year.

Overall the LAC region is expected to record economic growth of 6.3 per cent in 2021, the IMF stated.

“Compared to our July forecast, the global growth projection for 2021 has been revised down marginally to 5.9 percent and is unchanged for 2022 at 4.9 per cent,” Gita Gopinath, the Economic Counsellor and Director of Research, stated.

“This modest headline revision, however, masks large downgrades for some countries. The outlook for the low-income developing country group has darkened considerably due to worsening pandemic dynamics. The downgrade also reflects more difficult near-term prospects for the advanced economy group, in part due to supply disruptions. Partially offsetting these changes, projections for some commodity exporters have been upgraded on the back of rising commodity prices. Pandemic-related disruptions to contact-intensive sectors have caused the labour market recovery to significantly lag the output recovery in most countries,” she stated.

Gopinath stated that the dangerous divergence in economic prospects across countries remains a major concern.

“These economic divergences are a consequence of large disparities in vaccine access and in policy support,” she stated.

Gopinath stated that recent developments have made it abundantly clear that we are all in this together and the pandemic is not over anywhere until it is over everywhere.

“If COVID-19 were to have a prolonged impact into the medium term, it could reduce global GDP by a cumulative $5.3 trillion over the next five years relative to our current projection. It does not have to be this way. The global community must step up efforts to ensure equitable vaccine access for every country, overcome vaccine hesitancy where there is adequate supply, and secure better economic prospects for all,” she stated.
One percent makes no sense with the impact covid 19 had on stronger economies we only suffering a contraction of 1 percent. GOD is really a trini bai cuz even trinidad impervious to the rule of thumb when it comes to economics

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88sins
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Re: Economist: The country is almost broke

Postby 88sins » October 13th, 2021, 9:42 pm

We don't have a government of politicians, we have a parliament full of magicians.
Because with the petrotrin closure, covid19 expenditure, forex shortages, ever increasing cost of living and increasing unemployment levels, that 1% contraction is either real magic, or impsy showing the imf level smoke and mirrors.

But lewwe watch and wait and see nah.

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zoom rader
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Re: Economist: The country is almost broke

Postby zoom rader » October 14th, 2021, 7:16 am

What Trinidad need is a lying flat movement like in China

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