TriniTuner.com  |  Latest Event:  

Forums

Re: PNM in Gov't

this is how we do it.......

Moderator: 3ne2nr Mods

Mmoney607
30 pounds of Boost
Posts: 2547
Joined: April 1st, 2021, 9:21 am

Re: Re: PNM in Gov't

Postby Mmoney607 » September 4th, 2022, 9:08 am

hover11 wrote:
pugboy wrote:papers say most of them swimming pools in a mess
what a waste if money
I thought they were supposed to be used to prevent crime. That didn't age well

Laventillians and Maloneians will understand and sympathize with Rowley. They know that he had to chose between keeping them alive or maintaining the pool.

pugboy
TunerGod
Posts: 25298
Joined: September 6th, 2003, 6:18 pm

Re: Re: PNM in Gov't

Postby pugboy » September 4th, 2022, 9:10 am

crime is a health problem, not a fitness activity issue

hover11 wrote:
pugboy wrote:papers say most of them swimming pools in a mess
what a waste if money
I thought they were supposed to be used to prevent crime. That didn't age well

User avatar
paid_influencer
Trying to catch PATCH AND VEGA
Posts: 6806
Joined: November 18th, 2017, 4:15 pm

Re: PNM in Gov't

Postby paid_influencer » September 4th, 2022, 9:20 am

hover11 wrote:Times,

I have to disagree with you, it has teachers that go out of their way, above and beyond sometimes spending their own personal money to but the tools necessary to teach because the government did not provide it, other instances teachers use their own money to help children buy food when school feeding programme falls short. They have ZERO obligation to do these things yet they still do it


I disagree with that 'ZERO obligation' thing. It is the duty of those well-cared-for in society to look after those at the bottom. In this case, as a teacher, you have stable, guaranteed income. It might not be rising as fast as you want it -- but do not snare at it. That stable income is a dream for large sections of the society-- and especially those destitute enough to have their children on the school feeding program.

Look in your religion. Read the Bible or the Quaran. Read what it says about helping those less fortunate. The obligation is there. Do it and be grateful to God for what he has provided to you so you may share your bounty with his children.

User avatar
hover11
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 8543
Joined: July 10th, 2016, 4:15 pm

Re: PNM in Gov't

Postby hover11 » September 4th, 2022, 9:24 am

paid_influencer wrote:
hover11 wrote:Times,

I have to disagree with you, it has teachers that go out of their way, above and beyond sometimes spending their own personal money to but the tools necessary to teach because the government did not provide it, other instances teachers use their own money to help children buy food when school feeding programme falls short. They have ZERO obligation to do these things yet they still do it


I disagree with that 'ZERO obligation' thing. It is the duty of those well-cared-for in society to look after those at the bottom. In this case, as a teacher, you have stable, guaranteed income. It might not be rising as fast as you want it -- but do not snare at it. That stable income is a dream for large sections of the society-- and especially those destitute enough to have their children on the school feeding program.

Look in your religion. Read the Bible or the Quaran. Read what it says about helping those less fortunate. The obligation is there. Do it and be grateful to God for what he has provided to you so you may share your bounty with his children.
The same can be said for politicians or even one percent tycoons yet they give nothing to the ppl at the bottom of the ladder yet we expect ppl below them with much less resources to do such

User avatar
paid_influencer
Trying to catch PATCH AND VEGA
Posts: 6806
Joined: November 18th, 2017, 4:15 pm

Re: Re: PNM in Gov't

Postby paid_influencer » September 4th, 2022, 9:30 am

they also have an obligation. but so do you.

"from each according to their ability, to each according to their need"

User avatar
MaxPower
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 14157
Joined: October 31st, 2010, 2:37 pm

Re: PNM in Gov't

Postby MaxPower » September 4th, 2022, 10:28 am

hover11 wrote:Times,

I have to disagree with you, it has teachers that go out of their way, above and beyond sometimes spending their own personal money to but the tools necessary to teach because the government did not provide it, other instances teachers use their own money to help children buy food when school feeding programme falls short. They have ZERO obligation to do these things yet they still do it


Jason,

Teachers fail to realize what they signed up for and what should be taught in the early stages is to cease from giving excuses.

So all the problems that they are having, it is their duty to teach and educate others how to deal with not having the necessary tools.

Ask yourself Jason, why is it that those same teachers you mentioned go “above and beyond” and are going that extra mile? It’s because they have an example to set and they must teach others how to manage and cope when the going gets tough. What’s gonna happen in future when students observe their own teacher giving up and unwilling?

So all those teachers who crying and complaining and want the red carpet and the bed of roses laid out nicely for them and a big salary to do god knows what need to check themselves or find another job.

User avatar
hover11
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 8543
Joined: July 10th, 2016, 4:15 pm

Re: PNM in Gov't

Postby hover11 » September 4th, 2022, 10:36 am

MaxPower wrote:
hover11 wrote:Times,

I have to disagree with you, it has teachers that go out of their way, above and beyond sometimes spending their own personal money to but the tools necessary to teach because the government did not provide it, other instances teachers use their own money to help children buy food when school feeding programme falls short. They have ZERO obligation to do these things yet they still do it


Jason,

Teachers fail to realize what they signed up for and what should be taught in the early stages is to cease from giving excuses.

So all the problems that they are having, it is their duty to teach and educate others how to deal with not having the necessary tools.

Ask yourself Jason, why is it that those same teachers you mentioned go “above and beyond” and are going that extra mile? It’s because they have an example to set and they must teach how to manage and cope when the going gets tough.

So all those teachers who crying and complaining and want the red carpet and the bed of roses laid out nicely for them and a big salary to do god knows what need to check themselves or find another job.
Max,

So you agree teachers should take what they get regardless of increases in cost of living. Regardless of how much inflation has eaten away their disposal income. I disagree , these ppl have families and commitments just as you do. All for the love of children and their jobs, however, that doesn't pay bills nor can buy groceries with the love of children

User avatar
hover11
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 8543
Joined: July 10th, 2016, 4:15 pm

Re: PNM in Gov't

Postby hover11 » September 4th, 2022, 3:29 pm

We also want better governance, but that has never stopped governments from increasing their salaries, tax breaks or incentives. Yet ppl watching teachers who asking for a meagre increase in comparison to the powers that be, funny eh.

User avatar
Cantmis
punchin NOS
Posts: 2942
Joined: June 16th, 2010, 11:03 am
Location: 10° 10' N, 61° 40' W

Re: PNM in Gov't

Postby Cantmis » September 4th, 2022, 3:30 pm

School tomorrow ?

User avatar
paid_influencer
Trying to catch PATCH AND VEGA
Posts: 6806
Joined: November 18th, 2017, 4:15 pm

Re: PNM in Gov't

Postby paid_influencer » September 4th, 2022, 3:37 pm

Cantmis wrote:School tomorrow ?


no

unless you go to private school, in which case yes

User avatar
wing
Riding on 18's
Posts: 1677
Joined: December 17th, 2008, 6:57 pm

Re: PNM in Gov't

Postby wing » September 4th, 2022, 8:30 pm

CSO: Economy declines by four per cent

CLINT CHAN TACK 5 HRS AGO[https://newsday]FILE PHOTO: Central Bank of Trinidad & Tobago -

THE Central Statistical Office (CSO) has reported that the economy declined by four per cent in the first quarter of this year.

This was indicated on Sunday in the CSO's release of the quarterly Gross Domestic Product for the first quarter 2022.

The CSO said, "This was due to contractions in both the energy and non-energy Industries of 1.3 per cent and 5.2 per cent respectively."

The former recorded declines in asphalt (56.1 per cent), petroleum support services (46.7 per cent), crude oil exploration and extraction (5.2 per cent) and manufacture of petrochemicals (5.1 per cent).

In the latter, there were declines in trade and repairs (excluding natural gas and petroleum distribution)- 15.2 per cent, other service activities - 10.2 per cent, construction - 9.2 per cent, electricity (excluding gas) - 3.8 per cent and textiles, clothing, leather, wood, paper and printing - 5.3 per cent.

The CSO said decline in parts of the energy sector were offset by increases in other parts

These were refining (including LNG-liquefied natural gas) - 12.1 per cent, natural gas exploration and extraction - 5.5 per cent, condensate extraction - 4.5 per cent and petroleum and natural gas distribution - 0.5 per cent.

The decline in areas of the non-energy sector were similarly offset by increases in other areas of the sector.

These were food, beverages and tobacco products- 8.9 per cent; other manufactured products - 5.6 per cent; transport and storage - 4.2 per cent and accommodation and food services - 1.9 per cent.

User avatar
wing
Riding on 18's
Posts: 1677
Joined: December 17th, 2008, 6:57 pm

Re: PNM in Gov't

Postby wing » September 4th, 2022, 8:33 pm

 


PNM Govt racks up billion-dollar legal fees
by

Joshua Seemungal
Yesterday
Sun Sep 04 2022

Faris Al-Rawi

Office of the Parliament.

Joshua Seemungal

Close to one billion dollars has been paid out by the People’s National Movement (PNM) Government for legal services and fees in the last seven years.

According to documents obtained by the Sunday Guardian, UNC activist Ravi Balgobin Maharaj and his legal team, led by former attorney general Anand Ramlogan, SC, spent six months working on a Freedom of Information Act request which stated that the PNM paid out $799.8 million between September 2015 to January 25, 2022. However, that figure does not include legal fees paid by all government ministries and state enterprises during that time frame.

The legal fees figures are still outstanding for the ministries of Energy; Finance; Sport; the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service; Trinidad and Tobago Defence Force; Office of Disaster Preparedness and Management; Housing and Development with the Land Settlement Agency and the Housing Development Corporation. If these fees are made available and added, the total amount spent on legal briefs by the Government since September 2015 is near to or likely to exceed the billion-dollar mark.

The documents showed that 91 attorneys and legal firms received $1 million or more–with some collecting between $2 million to $22 million–during this period from SWMCOL and the ministries of Rural Development and Local Government; Public Utilities; Planning and Development; Trade and Industry; Tourism, Culture and the Arts; Agriculture, Land and Fisheries; Health; Labour; Foreign and Caricom Affairs; Attorney General and Legal Affairs; Public Administration; Youth Development and National Service, National Security; and Works and Transport.


Fyard Hosein

Local attorneys get $174.5 million

Since September 2015, 51 local attorneys have received payments worth $1 million or more from the State.

A handful of well-known attorneys received over $15 million each.


Russell Martineau, SC

*The highest-earning attorney during that period was former PNM attorney general Russell Martineau, SC, who was paid $21.845 million. Martineau became a senior counsel in 1993. He’s also served as President of the Law Association.


Claude Denbow, SC

*The second-highest earning attorney was Claude Denbow, SC, who earned $17.526 million. Denbow was appointed a senior counsel in 1998.

*Fayard Hosein, SC, who represented the Office of the Attorney General in several high-profile matters, earned $17.404 million.

*Current Attorney General Reginald Armour, SC, was paid $13.027 million before taking up office. The former president of the Law Association–who specialises in labour relations, constitutional and public law and fraud–was appointed as a senior counsel in 2003.

*Deborah Peake, SC, was paid $10.655 million.

*Gilbert Peterson, SC, the chairman of the Telecommunications Authority of Trinidad and Tobago, received $10.641 million.

*Jason Mootoo–$9.986 million.

*Seenath Jairam, SC,–$9.252 million.

*Netram Kowlessar, head of the Central Authority Unit in the AG’s office under the PP government–$9.075 million.

*Former Police Service Commission member Roger Kawalsingh was paid $7.43 million. Kawalsingh made headlines in 2021 when it was revealed that he had copied Gary Griffith on sensitive emails regarding an investigation into Griffith's conduct. He resigned from the PSC following the selection process saga. Earlier this year, police investigated former attorney general Faris Al-Rawi for allegedly failing to transfer the motor vehicle registration of a car sold to Kawalsingh in 2016. Al-Rawi denied the accusations.

Kawalsingh is also the attorney for Vincent Nelson, QC, who is the main witness in the corruption case against former AG Ramlogan and attorney Gerald Ramdeen.

*Kerwyn Garcia was paid $6.83 million. Garcia, a former board member of TSTT and Petrotrin, is the husband of Senate President Christine Kangaloo.

*Former president of the Law Association and former chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission Douglas Mendes, SC, earned $6.278 million.

*The Chairman of Trinidad Petroleum Holdings Limited Michael Quamina was paid $5.6 million by the state for legal services.

*The Chairman of WASA Ravi Nanga received $5.3 million.

*Other well-known attorneys earning more than $1 million included Ian Benjamin–$4.32 million; Elton Prescott SC–$4.3 million; Israel Khan SC–$4.2 million; UNC member Kelvin Ramkissoon–$2.562 million; T&TEC board member Raphael Ajodhia–$2.187 million; Director of Legal Services at Ministry of Foreign and CARICOM Affairs Sunita Harrikissoon–$2.038 million; PNM’s MP for Port-of-Spain South Keith Scotland–$1.8 million; Angostura Chairman Terrence Bharath–$1.691 million; Former justice minister Christlyn Moore–$1.297 million; Theresa Hadad–$1.112 million.


Attorney Anand Ramlogan.

Foreign attorneys paid $63.345 million

Ten foreign attorneys, who earned more than $ 1 million each, received approximately $63.36 million in total.

*Jamaican-born, British Queen’s Counsel Vincent Nelson, QC, was paid $10.999 million in outstanding fees from his work for the People’s Partnership between 2017 and 2019 by the State. Nelson had sued the State to recover this sum but subsequently withdrew after AG Al-Rawi agreed to pay him. In 2020, Nelson was fined $2.25 million after pleading guilty to two corruption-related charges. As part of the plea deal, he agreed to become a state witness in a legal fees kickback case against former Attorney General Anand Ramlogan and former UNC senator Gerald Ramdeen.

*Queen’s Counsel Jonathon Davis was paid $10.120 million. The British barrister represented state company Estate Management and Business Development Company Limited in a $1.3 billion lawsuit filed by the local construction company, NAMALCO Construction Services Ltd. EMBD was later ordered to pay $427 million.

*Among other payments were to Queen’s Counsel Anneliese Day who was paid $9.37 million; Edwin Jenkins, QC–$7.316 million; Hugh Saunders, QC–$6.983 million; George Hayman, QC–$6.768 million; Stephanie Barwise, QC–$4.481 million; James Lewis, QC–$1.697 million; and Simon Maskrey, QC–$1.641 million.

Millions more were also paid to foreign and local firms.

Before entering and since entering office, members of the Government made numerous claims that the PP government allegedly spent significant sums of money on legal briefs.

At a press conference in July 2021, Al-Rawi claimed that the Office of the Attorney General and Legal Affairs under the PP administration–which governed between 2010 and 2015–spent approximately $636.2 million in legal fees.

In October 2015, Al-Rawi estimated that $1 billion was paid to attorneys by ministries and state enterprises during the People’s Partnership stint in office.

"The figure–with 47 state enterprises yet to report, 18 ministries yet to report–is $892,607,271. Let me put it closer, if you add the $10 million error, you are at $900 million in legal fees spent over five years." former Attorney General Al-Rawi told the lower house.

He claimed that 11 unnamed lawyers earned $245.2 million between them. Al-Rawi was critical of the PP administration for spending such large sums on legal fees and promised to be more economical by using in-house lawyers from the Solicitor General's department.

During a 2016 budget debate, the then AG said going forward, senior counsels would only be hired where required and promised that all expenses would be reviewed.


Ravi Balgobin Maharaj

FACEBOOK

Foreign firms paid $67.7 million

According to the documents obtained by Balgobin-Maharaj, of the legal firms receiving more than $1 million, one was a United States-based firm and five were United Kingdom-based firms.

The six foreign firms received approximately $67.7 million.

Interestingly, according to the documents, the most expensive legal payment made to a foreign organization was not to a firm but to a company.

According to the document, the payment was to Irish company Vertical Aviation LLC in a 2019 lawsuit settlement of $37.125 million.

The company initially sought approximately US$13 million in compensation from the government concerning an alleged breach of contract for the ending of a helicopter lease signed under the People’s Partnership government in 2014.

According to former National Security minister, and current Energy and Energy Industries Minister, Stuart Young, the PP government leased the helicopter for five years at US$120,000 a month in 2015, in addition to insurance and maintenance costs of more than US$500,000.

However, Young said that the helicopter never arrived in Trinidad, as it lacked the necessary certifications.

The Government pulled out of the contract but was sued by Vertical Aviation for breach of contract.

Opposition leader Kamla Persad-Bissessar denied any wrongdoing by the PP government, casting blame on the PNM Government instead.

The other foreign firms that received more than $1 million, according to the document, were Charles, Russell, and Speechlys–$27.891 million; Freshfield, Bruckhaus and Deringer–$10.484 million; Cooley Uk–$8.032 million; Andreas Silchers-Haynes and Boone–$3.836 million; and Ethica Consultants– $3.35 million.

The third highest legal payment to a foreign organisation is also of particular interest.

Sequor Law PA was paid $13.581 million.

Subject to the outcome of an appeal, Sequor Law was disqualified, along with Attorney General Reginald Armour, by a Miami court for alleged conflict of interest.

Sequor Law was retained by the Government to oversee civil proceedings related to alleged fraud and corruption involved in the Piarco Airport Project.

Sequor Law allegedly consulted with AG Armour on the case. However, Armour once represented former finance minister Brian Kuei Tung in a criminal case concerning the same Piarco Airport Project.

Armour swore in an affidavit to the court that he functioned as a junior attorney in the Kuei Tung defence case.

He later said that he could not correct his affidavit because the judge made the order before he could do so.

The Miami court’s ruling meant that, barring a successful appeal, the state must replace Sequor Law and find new counsel, meaning the money paid to Sequor may have been for nought.

Local firms get $233.34 million

Twenty-three local firms each earned more than $1 million, receiving approximately $233.34 million in total. Deloitte and Touche–Trinidad received the most in legal fees from the state, approximately $134.295 million. Their bill alone accounted for approximately 17% of all the reported legal fees spent by the government since 2015.

Deloitte and Touche–Trinidad, one of the largest firms in the country, is a subsidiary of the international legal firm Deloitte and Touche LLP. The firm offers consulting services, audits, financial advisory, tax services and risk management.

Among the other well-known firms receiving more than $1 million, according to the document, were Fitzwilliam, Stone, Furness-Smith, Morgan–$21.2 million; Pollonais, Blanc De La Bastide and Jacelon–$10.3 million; Charles Law–$8.82 million; MG Daly and Partners–$7.8 million; Mair and Company–$6.617 million; Hove and Associates–$6.378 million; JD Sellier and Company–$6.211 million; Pricewaterhouse Cooper Advisory Services–$3.576 million; Lex Caribbean–$3.023 million; Devesh Maharaj and Associates–$2.786 million; Harrikissoon and Company–$1.798 million.

Hinds and Company, a firm in which Margaret Hinds–the wife of Fitzgerald Hinds–is a senior partner, received $1.585 million.

Alexander, Jeremie and Company–a firm in which the former attorney general under Prime Minister Patrick Manning, John Jeremie, SC, is a senior partner–received $3.3 million.

BOX


Guide on assessment of costs by CJ Ivor Archie

According to the October 2015 judicial document compiled by Chief Justice Ivor Archie entitled “Second Practice Guide to the Assessment of Costs”, when considering what fee should be allowed for work done by instructing or advocate attorneys the court should calculate such fees based on an hourly rate in accordance with guideline figures.

According to guideline figures he provided, instructing attorneys with five years of experience or less should charge an average rate of $750 an hour, while an advocate should charge an average rate of $900 an hour; an instructing attorney with more than five but less than ten years experience should charge an average rate of $1,200 an hour, while an advocate should charge an average rate of $1,400 per hour; an instructing attorney with more than ten but less than 20 years experience should charge around $1,950 per hour, while an advocate attorney should charge around $2,300 per hour; an instructing attorney with more than 20 years experience should charge around $2,600 per hour, while an advocate attorney should charge approximately $2,850 per hour; a senior counsel or queen’s counsel should charge approximately $4,000 per hour.

In 2017, it was estimated in the Judiciary’s 2017-2018 report that of 709 cases in the court backlog inventory, 352 cases were pending for 15 or more years, 88 cases were pending between ten and 15 years, while 269 were pending between five to ten years.

According to the Judiciary’s 2020-2021 report, there were 5,992 pending active matters before the civil high court as of July 31, 2021.

31 per cent were commercial, 27 per cent were personal action matters and 24 per cent were land matters.


Attorney General Reginald Armour

SHIRLEY BAHADUR

AG promises to review, respond after reviewing AGLA policy of his predecessor

Over the last two weeks, the Sunday Guardian attempted to get a response from the Office of the Attorney General to offer, as best possible, balance to the story.

Attempts to contact the office’s communications department via phone or email were not successful.

Emails and calls went unanswered.

On August 29, Sunday Guardian messaged Attorney General Reginald Armour, saying that we’ve been provided with a listing of attorneys who received more than $1 million from the Government for briefs from the period September 2015 to June 2021.

Sunday Guardian provided the documents containing the lists of payments and asked the following questions:

Firstly, I would like confirmation of whether the figures listed in the documents are accurate

Secondly, I would like a statement/comment on whether the figures listed are reasonable, in terms of value for money.

Thirdly, I would like a comparison, as best possible, with the figures paid for state briefs during the People’s Partnership’s stint in office from 2010-2015.

Fourthly, did the Government take steps to minimise, as best possible, the cost of legal briefs to the state?

How much of a factor, in the costs incurred, were legal challenges brought about by the opposition and opposition-affiliated lawyers? Are there statistics for the number of cases the Opposition brought about and the costs to the state?

Is there any mechanism in place to ensure that there’s no favouritism in the selection of lawyers or firms? Are there processes in place to ensure that this isn’t possible?

Is it permissible for relatives of cabinet members to receive ministerial legal briefs? And if so, what are the rules/limitations of such arrangements, if any?

The AG replied saying, “Mr Seemungal, I will attempt to revert once a) review the materials and b) review the AGLA policy of my predecessor on the subject, in the event that I decide to adhere or not, as the case may be.”

User avatar
maj. tom
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 10876
Joined: March 16th, 2012, 10:47 am
Location: ᑐᑌᑎᕮ

Re: PNM in Gov't

Postby maj. tom » September 4th, 2022, 8:42 pm

Wasn't this the exact same argument PNM used during election against the UNC on paying off lawyers immense wealth while they were in term? I guess it's ok now though. Good "value for money." PNM very good at it.

Gladiator
punchin NOS
Posts: 3697
Joined: April 20th, 2006, 9:43 am

Re: PNM in Gov't

Postby Gladiator » September 4th, 2022, 9:32 pm

maj. tom wrote:Wasn't this the exact same argument PNM used during election against the UNC on paying off lawyers immense wealth while they were in term? I guess it's ok now though. Good "value for money." PNM very good at it.


I guess that's why fuel subsidy has to go... so lawyer friends can get paid.

User avatar
paid_influencer
Trying to catch PATCH AND VEGA
Posts: 6806
Joined: November 18th, 2017, 4:15 pm

Re: PNM in Gov't

Postby paid_influencer » September 4th, 2022, 9:40 pm

wing wrote: 


PNM Govt racks up billion-dollar legal fees
by

Joshua Seemungal
Yesterday
Sun Sep 04 2022

Faris Al-Rawi

Office of the Parliament.

Joshua Seemungal

Close to one billion dollars has been paid out by the People’s National Movement (PNM) Government for legal services and fees in the last seven years.

According to documents obtained by the Sunday Guardian, UNC activist Ravi Balgobin Maharaj and his legal team, led by former attorney general Anand Ramlogan, SC, spent six months working on a Freedom of Information Act request which stated that the PNM paid out $799.8 million between September 2015 to January 25, 2022. However, that figure does not include legal fees paid by all government ministries and state enterprises during that time frame.

The legal fees figures are still outstanding for the ministries of Energy; Finance; Sport; the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service; Trinidad and Tobago Defence Force; Office of Disaster Preparedness and Management; Housing and Development with the Land Settlement Agency and the Housing Development Corporation. If these fees are made available and added, the total amount spent on legal briefs by the Government since September 2015 is near to or likely to exceed the billion-dollar mark.

The documents showed that 91 attorneys and legal firms received $1 million or more–with some collecting between $2 million to $22 million–during this period from SWMCOL and the ministries of Rural Development and Local Government; Public Utilities; Planning and Development; Trade and Industry; Tourism, Culture and the Arts; Agriculture, Land and Fisheries; Health; Labour; Foreign and Caricom Affairs; Attorney General and Legal Affairs; Public Administration; Youth Development and National Service, National Security; and Works and Transport.


Fyard Hosein

Local attorneys get $174.5 million

Since September 2015, 51 local attorneys have received payments worth $1 million or more from the State.

A handful of well-known attorneys received over $15 million each.


Russell Martineau, SC

*The highest-earning attorney during that period was former PNM attorney general Russell Martineau, SC, who was paid $21.845 million. Martineau became a senior counsel in 1993. He’s also served as President of the Law Association.


Claude Denbow, SC

*The second-highest earning attorney was Claude Denbow, SC, who earned $17.526 million. Denbow was appointed a senior counsel in 1998.

*Fayard Hosein, SC, who represented the Office of the Attorney General in several high-profile matters, earned $17.404 million.

*Current Attorney General Reginald Armour, SC, was paid $13.027 million before taking up office. The former president of the Law Association–who specialises in labour relations, constitutional and public law and fraud–was appointed as a senior counsel in 2003.

*Deborah Peake, SC, was paid $10.655 million.

*Gilbert Peterson, SC, the chairman of the Telecommunications Authority of Trinidad and Tobago, received $10.641 million.

*Jason Mootoo–$9.986 million.

*Seenath Jairam, SC,–$9.252 million.

*Netram Kowlessar, head of the Central Authority Unit in the AG’s office under the PP government–$9.075 million.

*Former Police Service Commission member Roger Kawalsingh was paid $7.43 million. Kawalsingh made headlines in 2021 when it was revealed that he had copied Gary Griffith on sensitive emails regarding an investigation into Griffith's conduct. He resigned from the PSC following the selection process saga. Earlier this year, police investigated former attorney general Faris Al-Rawi for allegedly failing to transfer the motor vehicle registration of a car sold to Kawalsingh in 2016. Al-Rawi denied the accusations.

Kawalsingh is also the attorney for Vincent Nelson, QC, who is the main witness in the corruption case against former AG Ramlogan and attorney Gerald Ramdeen.

*Kerwyn Garcia was paid $6.83 million. Garcia, a former board member of TSTT and Petrotrin, is the husband of Senate President Christine Kangaloo.

*Former president of the Law Association and former chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission Douglas Mendes, SC, earned $6.278 million.

*The Chairman of Trinidad Petroleum Holdings Limited Michael Quamina was paid $5.6 million by the state for legal services.

*The Chairman of WASA Ravi Nanga received $5.3 million.

*Other well-known attorneys earning more than $1 million included Ian Benjamin–$4.32 million; Elton Prescott SC–$4.3 million; Israel Khan SC–$4.2 million; UNC member Kelvin Ramkissoon–$2.562 million; T&TEC board member Raphael Ajodhia–$2.187 million; Director of Legal Services at Ministry of Foreign and CARICOM Affairs Sunita Harrikissoon–$2.038 million; PNM’s MP for Port-of-Spain South Keith Scotland–$1.8 million; Angostura Chairman Terrence Bharath–$1.691 million; Former justice minister Christlyn Moore–$1.297 million; Theresa Hadad–$1.112 million.


Attorney Anand Ramlogan.

Foreign attorneys paid $63.345 million

Ten foreign attorneys, who earned more than $ 1 million each, received approximately $63.36 million in total.

*Jamaican-born, British Queen’s Counsel Vincent Nelson, QC, was paid $10.999 million in outstanding fees from his work for the People’s Partnership between 2017 and 2019 by the State. Nelson had sued the State to recover this sum but subsequently withdrew after AG Al-Rawi agreed to pay him. In 2020, Nelson was fined $2.25 million after pleading guilty to two corruption-related charges. As part of the plea deal, he agreed to become a state witness in a legal fees kickback case against former Attorney General Anand Ramlogan and former UNC senator Gerald Ramdeen.

*Queen’s Counsel Jonathon Davis was paid $10.120 million. The British barrister represented state company Estate Management and Business Development Company Limited in a $1.3 billion lawsuit filed by the local construction company, NAMALCO Construction Services Ltd. EMBD was later ordered to pay $427 million.

*Among other payments were to Queen’s Counsel Anneliese Day who was paid $9.37 million; Edwin Jenkins, QC–$7.316 million; Hugh Saunders, QC–$6.983 million; George Hayman, QC–$6.768 million; Stephanie Barwise, QC–$4.481 million; James Lewis, QC–$1.697 million; and Simon Maskrey, QC–$1.641 million.

Millions more were also paid to foreign and local firms.

Before entering and since entering office, members of the Government made numerous claims that the PP government allegedly spent significant sums of money on legal briefs.

At a press conference in July 2021, Al-Rawi claimed that the Office of the Attorney General and Legal Affairs under the PP administration–which governed between 2010 and 2015–spent approximately $636.2 million in legal fees.

In October 2015, Al-Rawi estimated that $1 billion was paid to attorneys by ministries and state enterprises during the People’s Partnership stint in office.

"The figure–with 47 state enterprises yet to report, 18 ministries yet to report–is $892,607,271. Let me put it closer, if you add the $10 million error, you are at $900 million in legal fees spent over five years." former Attorney General Al-Rawi told the lower house.

He claimed that 11 unnamed lawyers earned $245.2 million between them. Al-Rawi was critical of the PP administration for spending such large sums on legal fees and promised to be more economical by using in-house lawyers from the Solicitor General's department.

During a 2016 budget debate, the then AG said going forward, senior counsels would only be hired where required and promised that all expenses would be reviewed.


Ravi Balgobin Maharaj

FACEBOOK

Foreign firms paid $67.7 million

According to the documents obtained by Balgobin-Maharaj, of the legal firms receiving more than $1 million, one was a United States-based firm and five were United Kingdom-based firms.

The six foreign firms received approximately $67.7 million.

Interestingly, according to the documents, the most expensive legal payment made to a foreign organization was not to a firm but to a company.

According to the document, the payment was to Irish company Vertical Aviation LLC in a 2019 lawsuit settlement of $37.125 million.

The company initially sought approximately US$13 million in compensation from the government concerning an alleged breach of contract for the ending of a helicopter lease signed under the People’s Partnership government in 2014.

According to former National Security minister, and current Energy and Energy Industries Minister, Stuart Young, the PP government leased the helicopter for five years at US$120,000 a month in 2015, in addition to insurance and maintenance costs of more than US$500,000.

However, Young said that the helicopter never arrived in Trinidad, as it lacked the necessary certifications.

The Government pulled out of the contract but was sued by Vertical Aviation for breach of contract.

Opposition leader Kamla Persad-Bissessar denied any wrongdoing by the PP government, casting blame on the PNM Government instead.

The other foreign firms that received more than $1 million, according to the document, were Charles, Russell, and Speechlys–$27.891 million; Freshfield, Bruckhaus and Deringer–$10.484 million; Cooley Uk–$8.032 million; Andreas Silchers-Haynes and Boone–$3.836 million; and Ethica Consultants– $3.35 million.

The third highest legal payment to a foreign organisation is also of particular interest.

Sequor Law PA was paid $13.581 million.

Subject to the outcome of an appeal, Sequor Law was disqualified, along with Attorney General Reginald Armour, by a Miami court for alleged conflict of interest.

Sequor Law was retained by the Government to oversee civil proceedings related to alleged fraud and corruption involved in the Piarco Airport Project.

Sequor Law allegedly consulted with AG Armour on the case. However, Armour once represented former finance minister Brian Kuei Tung in a criminal case concerning the same Piarco Airport Project.

Armour swore in an affidavit to the court that he functioned as a junior attorney in the Kuei Tung defence case.

He later said that he could not correct his affidavit because the judge made the order before he could do so.

The Miami court’s ruling meant that, barring a successful appeal, the state must replace Sequor Law and find new counsel, meaning the money paid to Sequor may have been for nought.

Local firms get $233.34 million

Twenty-three local firms each earned more than $1 million, receiving approximately $233.34 million in total. Deloitte and Touche–Trinidad received the most in legal fees from the state, approximately $134.295 million. Their bill alone accounted for approximately 17% of all the reported legal fees spent by the government since 2015.

Deloitte and Touche–Trinidad, one of the largest firms in the country, is a subsidiary of the international legal firm Deloitte and Touche LLP. The firm offers consulting services, audits, financial advisory, tax services and risk management.

Among the other well-known firms receiving more than $1 million, according to the document, were Fitzwilliam, Stone, Furness-Smith, Morgan–$21.2 million; Pollonais, Blanc De La Bastide and Jacelon–$10.3 million; Charles Law–$8.82 million; MG Daly and Partners–$7.8 million; Mair and Company–$6.617 million; Hove and Associates–$6.378 million; JD Sellier and Company–$6.211 million; Pricewaterhouse Cooper Advisory Services–$3.576 million; Lex Caribbean–$3.023 million; Devesh Maharaj and Associates–$2.786 million; Harrikissoon and Company–$1.798 million.

Hinds and Company, a firm in which Margaret Hinds–the wife of Fitzgerald Hinds–is a senior partner, received $1.585 million.

Alexander, Jeremie and Company–a firm in which the former attorney general under Prime Minister Patrick Manning, John Jeremie, SC, is a senior partner–received $3.3 million.

BOX


Guide on assessment of costs by CJ Ivor Archie

According to the October 2015 judicial document compiled by Chief Justice Ivor Archie entitled “Second Practice Guide to the Assessment of Costs”, when considering what fee should be allowed for work done by instructing or advocate attorneys the court should calculate such fees based on an hourly rate in accordance with guideline figures.

According to guideline figures he provided, instructing attorneys with five years of experience or less should charge an average rate of $750 an hour, while an advocate should charge an average rate of $900 an hour; an instructing attorney with more than five but less than ten years experience should charge an average rate of $1,200 an hour, while an advocate should charge an average rate of $1,400 per hour; an instructing attorney with more than ten but less than 20 years experience should charge around $1,950 per hour, while an advocate attorney should charge around $2,300 per hour; an instructing attorney with more than 20 years experience should charge around $2,600 per hour, while an advocate attorney should charge approximately $2,850 per hour; a senior counsel or queen’s counsel should charge approximately $4,000 per hour.

In 2017, it was estimated in the Judiciary’s 2017-2018 report that of 709 cases in the court backlog inventory, 352 cases were pending for 15 or more years, 88 cases were pending between ten and 15 years, while 269 were pending between five to ten years.

According to the Judiciary’s 2020-2021 report, there were 5,992 pending active matters before the civil high court as of July 31, 2021.

31 per cent were commercial, 27 per cent were personal action matters and 24 per cent were land matters.


Attorney General Reginald Armour

SHIRLEY BAHADUR

AG promises to review, respond after reviewing AGLA policy of his predecessor

Over the last two weeks, the Sunday Guardian attempted to get a response from the Office of the Attorney General to offer, as best possible, balance to the story.

Attempts to contact the office’s communications department via phone or email were not successful.

Emails and calls went unanswered.

On August 29, Sunday Guardian messaged Attorney General Reginald Armour, saying that we’ve been provided with a listing of attorneys who received more than $1 million from the Government for briefs from the period September 2015 to June 2021.

Sunday Guardian provided the documents containing the lists of payments and asked the following questions:

Firstly, I would like confirmation of whether the figures listed in the documents are accurate

Secondly, I would like a statement/comment on whether the figures listed are reasonable, in terms of value for money.

Thirdly, I would like a comparison, as best possible, with the figures paid for state briefs during the People’s Partnership’s stint in office from 2010-2015.

Fourthly, did the Government take steps to minimise, as best possible, the cost of legal briefs to the state?

How much of a factor, in the costs incurred, were legal challenges brought about by the opposition and opposition-affiliated lawyers? Are there statistics for the number of cases the Opposition brought about and the costs to the state?

Is there any mechanism in place to ensure that there’s no favouritism in the selection of lawyers or firms? Are there processes in place to ensure that this isn’t possible?

Is it permissible for relatives of cabinet members to receive ministerial legal briefs? And if so, what are the rules/limitations of such arrangements, if any?

The AG replied saying, “Mr Seemungal, I will attempt to revert once a) review the materials and b) review the AGLA policy of my predecessor on the subject, in the event that I decide to adhere or not, as the case may be.”


wall of text

Mmoney607
30 pounds of Boost
Posts: 2547
Joined: April 1st, 2021, 9:21 am

Re: PNM in Gov't

Postby Mmoney607 » September 4th, 2022, 9:42 pm

maj. tom wrote:Wasn't this the exact same argument PNM used during election against the UNC on paying off lawyers immense wealth while they were in term? I guess it's ok now though. Good "value for money." PNM very good at it.

Pnm get independence for we so they allowed to theif.

User avatar
paid_influencer
Trying to catch PATCH AND VEGA
Posts: 6806
Joined: November 18th, 2017, 4:15 pm

Re: PNM in Gov't

Postby paid_influencer » September 4th, 2022, 9:53 pm

Mmoney607 wrote:
maj. tom wrote:Wasn't this the exact same argument PNM used during election against the UNC on paying off lawyers immense wealth while they were in term? I guess it's ok now though. Good "value for money." PNM very good at it.

Pnm get independence for we so they allowed to theif.


pnm didn't get shiet. White people in England didn't want to deal with black and brown islanders anymore so they took away our citizenship. all the songs and pomp and circumstance and emblems is to make dotish island people feel is something we achieved instead of something that was taken away and replaced with an inferior version

User avatar
De Dragon
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 17902
Joined: January 27th, 2004, 3:49 am
Location: Enjoying my little miracles............

Re: Re: PNM in Gov't

Postby De Dragon » September 4th, 2022, 10:03 pm

Hypocrites, grifters, leeches, and fren and family bobol. Normal LFD RFD PNM.

User avatar
hover11
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 8543
Joined: July 10th, 2016, 4:15 pm

Re: PNM in Gov't

Postby hover11 » September 5th, 2022, 1:59 am

maj. tom wrote:Wasn't this the exact same argument PNM used during election against the UNC on paying off lawyers immense wealth while they were in term? I guess it's ok now though. Good "value for money." PNM very good at it.
Salt for the poor...I guess the rich have to get richer

User avatar
De Dragon
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 17902
Joined: January 27th, 2004, 3:49 am
Location: Enjoying my little miracles............

Re: PNM in Gov't

Postby De Dragon » September 5th, 2022, 5:48 am

hover11 wrote:
maj. tom wrote:Wasn't this the exact same argument PNM used during election against the UNC on paying off lawyers immense wealth while they were in term? I guess it's ok now though. Good "value for money." PNM very good at it.
Salt for the poor...I guess the rich have to get richer

Caca JUHN Scarfy say he wuk is to keep the rich richer, so de morney go trickle dong to he dotish suffering supporters

User avatar
hover11
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 8543
Joined: July 10th, 2016, 4:15 pm

Re: PNM in Gov't

Postby hover11 » September 5th, 2022, 6:56 am

Saw a memo from a school stating if parents don't present their children to an unsupervised environment they would be listed as absent.

User avatar
timelapse
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 8113
Joined: June 20th, 2012, 7:13 pm

Re: PNM in Gov't

Postby timelapse » September 5th, 2022, 7:13 am

hover11 wrote:We also want better governance, but that has never stopped governments from increasing their salaries, tax breaks or incentives. Yet ppl watching teachers who asking for a meagre increase in comparison to the powers that be, funny eh.
There are other people doing jobs that are important as well.What makes teachers so special?The day I find my job isn't paying enough,I will look for another one.Thats how it is.Nobody owes me a damn thing.I also give charity to people in need that I may encounter in my job.Does that make me special? It does not.
When teachers who are supposed to be role models are being entitled brats, what do you expect the children to grow up being? Entire generations of Karens.As for this whole dotishness about trans gender and pronouns and men in women's bathrooms and all that,watch who is pushing it.Your beloved teachers.Meanwhile, basic spelling is getting progressively worse over the years.

User avatar
hover11
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 8543
Joined: July 10th, 2016, 4:15 pm

Re: PNM in Gov't

Postby hover11 » September 5th, 2022, 7:26 am

timelapse wrote:
hover11 wrote:We also want better governance, but that has never stopped governments from increasing their salaries, tax breaks or incentives. Yet ppl watching teachers who asking for a meagre increase in comparison to the powers that be, funny eh.
There are other people doing jobs that are important as well.What makes teachers so special?The day I find my job isn't paying enough,I will look for another one.Thats how it is.Nobody owes me a damn thing.I also give charity to people in need that I may encounter in my job.Does that make me special? It does not.
When teachers who are supposed to be role models are being entitled brats, what do you expect the children to grow up being? Entire generations of Karens.As for this whole dotishness about trans gender and pronouns and men in women's bathrooms and all that,watch who is pushing it.Your beloved teachers.Meanwhile, basic spelling is getting progressively worse over the years.
America has a serious teacher shortage and its for the same reason low wages, high cost of living. There is no excuse for a government holding its human resource at ransom. The fact that you think it's ok is the only nonsense here. The government simply cannot paying low wages coupled with a high cost of living and expect everything to be ok, workers will be demotivated and lack morale. This isn't the private sector where you jump from job to job if you dissatisfied, this is a public sector environment where strong unions play roles here. The unions bargain on behalf of the workers and everyone benefits.

Ppl saying they should find another job , no problem let's say all the teachers leave and the new set comes in how long you think before the new set realize this salary doesn't make sense. Wouldn't you be in the same predicament yet again? Then you would now have a high turnover of teachers within the public service, who would be losing out in the end not the children....

User avatar
timelapse
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 8113
Joined: June 20th, 2012, 7:13 pm

Re: PNM in Gov't

Postby timelapse » September 5th, 2022, 7:35 am

hover11 wrote:
timelapse wrote:
hover11 wrote:We also want better governance, but that has never stopped governments from increasing their salaries, tax breaks or incentives. Yet ppl watching teachers who asking for a meagre increase in comparison to the powers that be, funny eh.
There are other people doing jobs that are important as well.What makes teachers so special?The day I find my job isn't paying enough,I will look for another one.Thats how it is.Nobody owes me a damn thing.I also give charity to people in need that I may encounter in my job.Does that make me special? It does not.
When teachers who are supposed to be role models are being entitled brats, what do you expect the children to grow up being? Entire generations of Karens.As for this whole dotishness about trans gender and pronouns and men in women's bathrooms and all that,watch who is pushing it.Your beloved teachers.Meanwhile, basic spelling is getting progressively worse over the years.
America has a serious teacher shortage and its for the same reason low wages, high cost of living. There is no excuse for a government holding its human resource at ransom. The fact that you think it's ok is the only nonsense here. The government simply cannot paying low wages coupled with a high cost of living and expect everything to be ok, workers will be demotivated and lack morale. This isn't the private sector where you jump from job to job if you dissatisfied, this is a public sector environment where strong unions play roles here. The unions bargain on behalf of the workers and everyone benefits.

Ppl saying they should find another job , no problem let's say all the teachers leave and the new set comes in how long you think before the new set realize this salary doesn't make sense. Wouldn't you be in the same predicament yet again? Then you would now have a high turnover of teachers within the public service, who would be losing out in the end not the children....
Maybe a higher turnover is what it needs.
Lemme ask you a question.How much is the current take-home salary for a teacher?

Kickstart
Riding on 16's
Posts: 1152
Joined: September 25th, 2019, 2:13 pm

Re: Re: PNM in Gov't

Postby Kickstart » September 5th, 2022, 8:29 am

De Dragon wrote:Hypocrites, grifters, leeches, and fren and family bobol. Normal LFD RFD PNM.
It's ok when pnm do it

User avatar
hover11
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 8543
Joined: July 10th, 2016, 4:15 pm

Re: PNM in Gov't

Postby hover11 » September 5th, 2022, 9:02 am

timelapse wrote:
hover11 wrote:
timelapse wrote:
hover11 wrote:We also want better governance, but that has never stopped governments from increasing their salaries, tax breaks or incentives. Yet ppl watching teachers who asking for a meagre increase in comparison to the powers that be, funny eh.
There are other people doing jobs that are important as well.What makes teachers so special?The day I find my job isn't paying enough,I will look for another one.Thats how it is.Nobody owes me a damn thing.I also give charity to people in need that I may encounter in my job.Does that make me special? It does not.
When teachers who are supposed to be role models are being entitled brats, what do you expect the children to grow up being? Entire generations of Karens.As for this whole dotishness about trans gender and pronouns and men in women's bathrooms and all that,watch who is pushing it.Your beloved teachers.Meanwhile, basic spelling is getting progressively worse over the years.
America has a serious teacher shortage and its for the same reason low wages, high cost of living. There is no excuse for a government holding its human resource at ransom. The fact that you think it's ok is the only nonsense here. The government simply cannot paying low wages coupled with a high cost of living and expect everything to be ok, workers will be demotivated and lack morale. This isn't the private sector where you jump from job to job if you dissatisfied, this is a public sector environment where strong unions play roles here. The unions bargain on behalf of the workers and everyone benefits.

Ppl saying they should find another job , no problem let's say all the teachers leave and the new set comes in how long you think before the new set realize this salary doesn't make sense. Wouldn't you be in the same predicament yet again? Then you would now have a high turnover of teachers within the public service, who would be losing out in the end not the children....
Maybe a higher turnover is what it needs.
Lemme ask you a question.How much is the current take-home salary for a teacher?
Primary school teacher starts at 10k.

Secondary starts at 13k. All depends on the grade.

We are a strange group of people, the CPO and by extension the government of Trinidad and Tobago had 9 years to settle negotiation and they didnt settle.in fact they now start negotiations march 2022.Why wasn't 2014 to 2016 settle then? Why wait now? Blame is been directed to the wrong group of persons and the main culprits are given their free pass as usual

User avatar
timelapse
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 8113
Joined: June 20th, 2012, 7:13 pm

Re: PNM in Gov't

Postby timelapse » September 5th, 2022, 2:01 pm

hover11 wrote:
timelapse wrote:
hover11 wrote:
timelapse wrote:
hover11 wrote:We also want better governance, but that has never stopped governments from increasing their salaries, tax breaks or incentives. Yet ppl watching teachers who asking for a meagre increase in comparison to the powers that be, funny eh.
There are other people doing jobs that are important as well.What makes teachers so special?The day I find my job isn't paying enough,I will look for another one.Thats how it is.Nobody owes me a damn thing.I also give charity to people in need that I may encounter in my job.Does that make me special? It does not.
When teachers who are supposed to be role models are being entitled brats, what do you expect the children to grow up being? Entire generations of Karens.As for this whole dotishness about trans gender and pronouns and men in women's bathrooms and all that,watch who is pushing it.Your beloved teachers.Meanwhile, basic spelling is getting progressively worse over the years.
America has a serious teacher shortage and its for the same reason low wages, high cost of living. There is no excuse for a government holding its human resource at ransom. The fact that you think it's ok is the only nonsense here. The government simply cannot paying low wages coupled with a high cost of living and expect everything to be ok, workers will be demotivated and lack morale. This isn't the private sector where you jump from job to job if you dissatisfied, this is a public sector environment where strong unions play roles here. The unions bargain on behalf of the workers and everyone benefits.

Ppl saying they should find another job , no problem let's say all the teachers leave and the new set comes in how long you think before the new set realize this salary doesn't make sense. Wouldn't you be in the same predicament yet again? Then you would now have a high turnover of teachers within the public service, who would be losing out in the end not the children....
Maybe a higher turnover is what it needs.
Lemme ask you a question.How much is the current take-home salary for a teacher?
Primary school teacher starts at 10k.

Secondary starts at 13k. All depends on the grade.

We are a strange group of people, the CPO and by extension the government of Trinidad and Tobago had 9 years to settle negotiation and they didnt settle.in fact they now start negotiations march 2022.Why wasn't 2014 to 2016 settle then? Why wait now? Blame is been directed to the wrong group of persons and the main culprits are given their free pass as usual
You can say that blame is on the wrong people,but have no problem with the wrong people paying the price for other GOVERNMENT workers that not doing their job properly . Interesting

Mmoney607
30 pounds of Boost
Posts: 2547
Joined: April 1st, 2021, 9:21 am

Re: Re: PNM in Gov't

Postby Mmoney607 » September 5th, 2022, 7:04 pm

Children had to go back home today. Big up tutta, bring this country to its knees

User avatar
hover11
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 8543
Joined: July 10th, 2016, 4:15 pm

Re: PNM in Gov't

Postby hover11 » September 6th, 2022, 6:38 am

People in Trinidad have a very short memory, and they also vote on race not performance. Ppl complaining about teachers wanting an increase yet government MPs doing nothing and they ok with that bunch of hypocrites. The only ppl allowed to do NOTHING and be paid big salaries is the government in their eyes. All of sudden ppl concerned about children and their education however when Ash Wednesday comes around EVERY year the student turn out is always low for that week. So we conveniently care about children and their education.

Mmoney607
30 pounds of Boost
Posts: 2547
Joined: April 1st, 2021, 9:21 am

Re: PNM in Gov't

Postby Mmoney607 » September 6th, 2022, 6:55 am

And wasn't it the govt that closed schools for over two years for no good reason.

Advertisement

Return to “Ole talk and more Ole talk”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 213 guests