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Future of Caribbean Airlines

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Dave » May 13th, 2020, 3:16 pm

If used in the true sense of the term then no money passed cash flow was eased and profit or loss unaffected.
If they had an expense written off then we make profits!

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby neilsingh100 » May 13th, 2020, 3:26 pm

Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:
neilsingh100 wrote:The lease on the 12 Boeing 737-800 airplanes in CAL's fleet is costing approximately TT$25 million / month so over two years that is TT$600 million not counting other cost like salaries which will most likely push cost to taxpayers into the billions.

What's the source of these figures?
We don't have actual figures since CAL audited financials are not made public but the rate to lease a 737-800 is around USD 120,000–350,000 monthly.
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1399391

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Duane 3NE 2NR » May 13th, 2020, 3:48 pm

neilsingh100 wrote:
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:
neilsingh100 wrote:The lease on the 12 Boeing 737-800 airplanes in CAL's fleet is costing approximately TT$25 million / month so over two years that is TT$600 million not counting other cost like salaries which will most likely push cost to taxpayers into the billions.

What's the source of these figures?
We don't have actual figures since CAL audited financials are not made public but the rate to lease a 737-800 is around USD 120,000–350,000 monthly.
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1399391

But that does not give any consideration to negotiations CAL has made with the lessor.
Most cargo coming in (including skyboxes) still use CAL freighter service. Also cargo out to the Caribbean is CAL.
If anything the airbridge between Trinidad & Tobago will be the biggest losses as that's expense without a way to recoup.

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Dizzy28 » May 13th, 2020, 4:29 pm

Cal owns the ATRs though (except the plain coloured one I think). No lease payments there just maintainance
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:
neilsingh100 wrote:
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:
neilsingh100 wrote:The lease on the 12 Boeing 737-800 airplanes in CAL's fleet is costing approximately TT$25 million / month so over two years that is TT$600 million not counting other cost like salaries which will most likely push cost to taxpayers into the billions.

What's the source of these figures?
We don't have actual figures since CAL audited financials are not made public but the rate to lease a 737-800 is around USD 120,000–350,000 monthly.
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1399391

But that does not give any consideration to negotiations CAL has made with the lessor.
Most cargo coming in (including skyboxes) still use CAL freighter service. Also cargo out to the Caribbean is CAL.
If anything the airbridge between Trinidad & Tobago will be the biggest losses as that's expense without a way to recoup.

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby neilsingh100 » May 13th, 2020, 5:14 pm

Dizzy28 wrote:Cal owns the ATRs though (except the plain coloured one I think). No lease payments there just maintainance
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:
neilsingh100 wrote:
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:
neilsingh100 wrote:The lease on the 12 Boeing 737-800 airplanes in CAL's fleet is costing approximately TT$25 million / month so over two years that is TT$600 million not counting other cost like salaries which will most likely push cost to taxpayers into the billions.

What's the source of these figures?
We don't have actual figures since CAL audited financials are not made public but the rate to lease a 737-800 is around USD 120,000–350,000 monthly.
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1399391

But that does not give any consideration to negotiations CAL has made with the lessor.
Most cargo coming in (including skyboxes) still use CAL freighter service. Also cargo out to the Caribbean is CAL.
If anything the airbridge between Trinidad & Tobago will be the biggest losses as that's expense without a way to recoup.
Most of the fleet cost is for the 12 leased 737-800s not the ATRs.
ATRs were purchased with tax payers money which the government was not repaid.
Let us see how long it will take them to burn through the US$65 million.
Last edited by neilsingh100 on May 13th, 2020, 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby pugboy » May 13th, 2020, 5:21 pm

we can assume this money is being lent bailout style, ie pay when yuh able
which in most cases is never

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Dizzy28 » May 13th, 2020, 6:14 pm

pugboy wrote:we can assume this money is being lent bailout style, ie pay when yuh able
which in most cases is never


Based on IATA's predictions for global air travel this will only be the first on many injections into CAL over the next few years.

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Dizzy28 » July 2nd, 2020, 3:02 pm

Well LIAT has taken their website down in light of the impending liquidation.
CAL poised to be the regional saviour (still not convinced they too will be able to operate regionally at a profit)

https://www.loopcayman.com/content/anti ... iquidation

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby zoom rader » July 2nd, 2020, 3:11 pm

Up goes fare prices

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby bluefete » July 2nd, 2020, 3:19 pm

Dizzy28 wrote:Well LIAT has taken their website down in light of the impending liquidation.
CAL poised to be the regional saviour (still not convinced they too will be able to operate regionally at a profit)

https://www.loopcayman.com/content/anti ... iquidation


Liat 2020 coming. The Antiguan government has injected several million $US into the new entity.

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Dizzy28 » September 28th, 2020, 12:07 pm

On the upcoming restructuring of CAL post the expiry of the GORTT COVID assistance the Union say it unfair to take action on CAL if action is not being taken at other state agencies. However when the CAL employees get their free tickets and flying Miami or New York once a month that's not really an issue though!!

The union added that as a state enterprise, any action by CAL to act as an independent body regarding staff restructuring would be an act outside the interests of the employees who are a part of the public service.
Farmer said, “They are singling out the workers there and telling them they need to take a pay cut, but other places that are under the government as state entities are being left out. It is like they are discriminating. They are not doing it equitably; they are undermining democracy. We are not saying that sacrifices should not be made but there must be some sort of collective approach. But it seems like they want to have their cake and eat it.”https://newsday.co.tt/2020/09/27/union-accuses-cal-of-acting-unfairly/

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby VexXx Dogg » September 28th, 2020, 12:15 pm

it's rough all around tbh.

hopefully it all works out - now is a horrible time to be without salary

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby pugboy » September 28th, 2020, 12:37 pm

long ago parents get to fly free for life too

Dizzy28 wrote:On the upcoming restructuring of CAL post the expiry of the GORTT COVID assistance the Union say it unfair to take action on CAL if action is not being taken at other state agencies. However when the CAL employees get their free tickets and flying Miami or New York once a month that's not really an issue though!!

The union added that as a state enterprise, any action by CAL to act as an independent body regarding staff restructuring would be an act outside the interests of the employees who are a part of the public service.
Farmer said, “They are singling out the workers there and telling them they need to take a pay cut, but other places that are under the government as state entities are being left out. It is like they are discriminating. They are not doing it equitably; they are undermining democracy. We are not saying that sacrifices should not be made but there must be some sort of collective approach. But it seems like they want to have their cake and eat it.”https://newsday.co.tt/2020/09/27/union-accuses-cal-of-acting-unfairly/

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby supremacy_007 » September 29th, 2020, 10:50 am

This is not an uncommon practice, most airlines to this, employee + parents + dependants, just pay the taxes and once the seat is free you may make it, you go on the standby list, they do not forsake a paying customer for an employee to fly for leisure, each job has its perk, this is one most airline employee enjoy, dont cause the airline to be unprofitable

pugboy wrote:long ago parents get to fly free for life too

Dizzy28 wrote:On the upcoming restructuring of CAL post the expiry of the GORTT COVID assistance the Union say it unfair to take action on CAL if action is not being taken at other state agencies. However when the CAL employees get their free tickets and flying Miami or New York once a month that's not really an issue though!!

The union added that as a state enterprise, any action by CAL to act as an independent body regarding staff restructuring would be an act outside the interests of the employees who are a part of the public service.
Farmer said, “They are singling out the workers there and telling them they need to take a pay cut, but other places that are under the government as state entities are being left out. It is like they are discriminating. They are not doing it equitably; they are undermining democracy. We are not saying that sacrifices should not be made but there must be some sort of collective approach. But it seems like they want to have their cake and eat it.”https://newsday.co.tt/2020/09/27/union-accuses-cal-of-acting-unfairly/

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Dizzy28 » September 29th, 2020, 11:07 am

I was being slightly facetious with that as an example. However it is ridiculous for the union to claim CAL employees are part of the public service.
CAL is a state enterprise guided by the MoF's SEMP and not the Service Commission.

supremacy_007 wrote:This is not an uncommon practice, most airlines to this, employee + parents + dependants, just pay the taxes and once the seat is free you may make it, you go on the standby list, they do not forsake a paying customer for an employee to fly for leisure, each job has its perk, this is one most airline employee enjoy, dont cause the airline to be unprofitable

pugboy wrote:long ago parents get to fly free for life too

Dizzy28 wrote:On the upcoming restructuring of CAL post the expiry of the GORTT COVID assistance the Union say it unfair to take action on CAL if action is not being taken at other state agencies. However when the CAL employees get their free tickets and flying Miami or New York once a month that's not really an issue though!!

The union added that as a state enterprise, any action by CAL to act as an independent body regarding staff restructuring would be an act outside the interests of the employees who are a part of the public service.
Farmer said, “They are singling out the workers there and telling them they need to take a pay cut, but other places that are under the government as state entities are being left out. It is like they are discriminating. They are not doing it equitably; they are undermining democracy. We are not saying that sacrifices should not be made but there must be some sort of collective approach. But it seems like they want to have their cake and eat it.”https://newsday.co.tt/2020/09/27/union-accuses-cal-of-acting-unfairly/

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Ben_spanna » September 29th, 2020, 11:23 am

OMG- so what will become the young man who got a big job in CAL for no reason, the same one who police lockdown Barataria to retrieve his golden cell phone............will he be retrenched? and will he be paid for his LONG standing services?
:wink:

Dizzy28 wrote:I was being slightly facetious with that as an example. However it is ridiculous for the union to claim CAL employees are part of the public service.
CAL is a state enterprise guided by the MoF's SEMP and not the Service Commission.

supremacy_007 wrote:This is not an uncommon practice, most airlines to this, employee + parents + dependants, just pay the taxes and once the seat is free you may make it, you go on the standby list, they do not forsake a paying customer for an employee to fly for leisure, each job has its perk, this is one most airline employee enjoy, dont cause the airline to be unprofitable

pugboy wrote:long ago parents get to fly free for life too

Dizzy28 wrote:On the upcoming restructuring of CAL post the expiry of the GORTT COVID assistance the Union say it unfair to take action on CAL if action is not being taken at other state agencies. However when the CAL employees get their free tickets and flying Miami or New York once a month that's not really an issue though!!

The union added that as a state enterprise, any action by CAL to act as an independent body regarding staff restructuring would be an act outside the interests of the employees who are a part of the public service.
Farmer said, “They are singling out the workers there and telling them they need to take a pay cut, but other places that are under the government as state entities are being left out. It is like they are discriminating. They are not doing it equitably; they are undermining democracy. We are not saying that sacrifices should not be made but there must be some sort of collective approach. But it seems like they want to have their cake and eat it.”https://newsday.co.tt/2020/09/27/union-accuses-cal-of-acting-unfairly/

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby K74T » September 29th, 2020, 12:20 pm

FB_IMG_1601395789798.jpeg

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby MaxPower » September 29th, 2020, 3:18 pm

All staff were paid their FULL salary during the pandemic thus far.

Imagine pilots home for months and collecting salaries including benefits/allowances ranging from roughly 25k to 100k.

Hard times are now ahead, i hope they all would have spent,saved and invested wisely.

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby SR » October 1st, 2020, 1:17 pm

Customers did not get refunds on cancelled flights since march

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby maj. tom » October 1st, 2020, 1:23 pm

A lot of airline worldwide never gave refunds. They have a rescheduled seat valid until Dec 31st. After that, poof! And most of them not flying. There simply isn't any money to give people refunds as long as the airplanes are on the ground. Governments too are not stepping up for consumer rights and saying that it's wrong to take money and not give a service that was paid for. I have lost money to Air Canada and can't do anything about it. But that's really due to the TT Government closing the borders indefinitely.

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby bluefete » October 1st, 2020, 1:39 pm

CAL CEO get his $1/2 million bonus for 2019 though.

According to Zoom - take b----l

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Dohplaydat » October 1st, 2020, 1:54 pm

bluefete wrote:CAL CEO get his $1/2 million bonus for 2019 though.

According to Zoom - take b----l


Garvin is a great guy, he deserves that bonus for CAL's 2019 performance, he's obligated to it as it's in his contract.

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby bluefete » October 1st, 2020, 4:33 pm

Dohplaydat wrote:
bluefete wrote:CAL CEO get his $1/2 million bonus for 2019 though.

According to Zoom - take b----l


Garvin is a great guy, he deserves that bonus for CAL's 2019 performance, he's obligated to it as it's in his contract.


I know that, actually and it is not an issue if he met his targets.

My problem is that we have never seen the audited figures that made up the "operating profit" that CAL made.

In 2018 and 2019, they gave us unaudited accounts extracts. I have been unable to find any published audited accounts for CAL. These must be made public because CAL is funded by the taxpayers.

In 2015, CAL's General Management personnel salaries was 57% of its total salaries. Think about that for a minute. That was an extract from a JSC meeting (pg.185).

Then we had this:

"Caribbean Airlines (CAL) is under scrutiny amid signs that it will be tardy in releasing another of set of audited results.

In e-mailed responses to the Trinidad Guardian newspaper, the airline admitted that its 2015 financial statements have not been produced on time.

Caribbean Airlines says the field work for the financial year which ended on December 31, will commence next month.
It added that the audit for the financial year ending December 31, 2014 is in progress and is expected to be concluded by October this year.

A recent newspaper article in Trinidad criticised the airline, and the three administrations since its establishment in September 2006, for failing to publish CAL’s audited accounts. "

http://radiojamaicanewsonline.com/busin ... -of-audits

http://www.ttparliament.org/reports/p11 ... r5-CAL.pdf

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby pugboy » October 1st, 2020, 4:41 pm

You are assuming cal is meant to be a fully financially compliant.

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby killercow » October 12th, 2020, 6:08 pm

Interesting....

It wasn’t me: Unwitting drug mule sues Caribbean Airlines

A Guyanese-American man is suing Caribbean Airlines (CAL) after he unwittingly transported drugs to New York from the Cheddi Jagan International Airport, two years ago.

Simeon Wilson, a Queens resident, told the New York Post that his nightmare began after he had spent a week with family celebrating his elderly father’s birthday.

According to documents filed in the Brooklyn Federal Court, the 50 year old said he picked up his luggage from the carousel on arrival at the JFK International Airport and he failed to notice a neck tie affixed to his bags, which was a sign that his luggage was tampered with.

He was pulled aside by US Customs agents shortly after and arrested when 2,000 grams of cocaine were found inside his bags.

In court papers, Wilson said he “had never touched, handled, sold or even seen drugs in his life,” and didn’t put them in his own suitcase.

“You go out for a vacation you don’t expect anybody to go and tamper with your bag,” he told The Post.

The case was dropped almost three months later after prosecutors determined the bags had been tampered “while in the sole custody of Caribbean Airlines,” he said in the legal filing.

Wilson said his troubles continue as his reputation in the Queens Guyanese community has been ruined and he lost his job.

He is also frequently pulled aside by Customs at airports because his name is flagged and he has to carry proof that the case was dropped.

Wilson is seeking unspecified amount for damages from CAL.

Loop News reached out to Caribbean Airlines for a comment and its Manage for Corporate Communications, Dionne Ligoure, stated: “The matter is currently before the Court and as such Caribbean Airlines is restricted in providing any particulars at this time”.

http://www.looptt.com/content/it-wasnt-me-unwitting-drug-mule-sues-caribbean-airlines-5

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Redman » October 12th, 2020, 7:35 pm

That sounds reasonable.

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby maj. tom » October 12th, 2020, 7:40 pm

That going on since forever. Baggage handlers plant drugs and tag your baggage after the scans, just before loading the plane. Cohort handler at the destination runway removes the package while unloading the plane and before the conveyor belt. USA airports have much more security and constant surveillance on the baggage truck to ensure nobody interferes with luggage even during loading because of 9/11 and the possibility of planting a bomb by a baggage handler terrorist mole.

The investigators took 10 weeks and cleared the man, which means they would have obtained security camera footage at both departure and destination airports and discovered evidence of the scheme (post-9/11 security requires all intl airports to have such surveillance). Lucky man, not to spend 10 years in a US prison for being innocent. I wonder if Trinidad investigators was doing all that work to clear an innocent man. And it can happen to any one of us who travelling eh. CAL deserves to be sued hard and heavy and the Airport Authority of GEO is complicit as well. Lapse in checks and security, hiring drug baggage people, punitive damage to the man's name and income. They will settle because they are in the wrong.

There was another similar case regarding Delta Airlines from GEO airport to JFK in 2011 and Delta was ordered to pay US$759,000 to the passenger.

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Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby MaxPower » October 12th, 2020, 8:29 pm

Wilson Simeon have cocaine written all over that face...but sure yeh we believe him.

Tamper with the bag yourself or let the inside ppl tamper with it purposely so in the event you get caught you have a case....its like planning to frame yourself....old tricks in the book.

Anyways, hope everything work out with his innocent looking self.

Shame on you CAL

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Habit7 » May 7th, 2021, 2:08 pm

Image

CAL's future Boeing 737- MAX 8 9Y-CAL

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby K74T » May 7th, 2021, 2:27 pm

Wow, nice!

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