COVID-19 in Trinidad & Tobago (Local Updates & Discussions Only)

[drchaos]

Omicron was the end all, life is back to normal...pro vax logic

This year, more than 420 unvaccinated people died from COVID. About 380 may have likely lived IF they had chosen to become fully vaccinated.

Try harder.

419 if you decide to not count the lady from Tobago who fell off the ladder, had head trauma, tested positive for covid and was put down as a covid death.

Also if were not counting her should we not also omit the people who died with covid and not from it?

I wonder how many people the actual number comes up to?

[redmanjp]

if we omit those who died 'with' covid I'm sure a lot of the vaxxed deaths will drop as they are less likely to die 'from' covid, unlike the unvaxxed deaths

[Chimera]

Chaos can you honestly tell us that vaxxed persons aren't recovering faster or having less issues than unvaxxed persons?

[adnj]

Chaos can you honestly tell us that vaxxed persons aren't recovering faster or having less issues than unvaxxed persons?

No. He/she cannot.

[Redman]

Chaos can you honestly tell us that vaxxed persons aren't recovering faster or having less issues than unvaxxed persons?

The challenge here is source,

Govts world wide are notorious for poor data gathering in general.
Omnicron is less reported by the public further skewing numbers.
Death by or with
Admission from or with
Layer in how one feels.about the disease,govt, big pharma, 5G and Elvis,.we have a global 24hr soap opera that feels like it's taking place in sound bites.

Here since Dec no one that I know who has or thinks they had it has reported it.
Test privately stay home for a week or two.

A few employees tested at health centers were never notified but when they went back after 20+days at home some were advised as positive and some negative..
No hospitalizations

Not one got timely feedback from Min of Health.

So if they operating like that at the tip of the spear, what else are they halfarsing?

[timelapse]

Chaos can you honestly tell us that vaxxed persons aren't recovering faster or having less issues than unvaxxed persons?

The challenge here is source,

Govts world wide are notorious for poor data gathering in general.
Omnicron is less reported by the public further skewing numbers.
Death by or with
Admission from or with
Layer in how one feels.about the disease,govt, big pharma, 5G and Elvis,.we have a global 24hr soap opera that feels like it's taking place in sound bites.

Here since Dec no one that I know who has or thinks they had it has reported it.
Test privately stay home for a week or two.

A few employees tested at health centers were never notified but when they went back after 20+days at home some were advised as positive and some negative..
No hospitalizations

Not one got timely feedback from Min of Health.

So if they operating like that at the tip of the spear, what else are they halfarsing?

The problem is source bias .
Once the evidence doesn't suit the narrative antivaxers trying to promote, the integrity of the source will be tarnished.
“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”- not Socrates

[Redman]

Well both sides do that ...cuz their interwebs correk.

[drchaos]

Chaos can you honestly tell us that vaxxed persons aren't recovering faster or having less issues than unvaxxed persons?

From the patients on the ground what I'm witnessing from working though this pandemic.
Pfizer protecting is working well 3-4 days of symptoms for most people
Natural immunity is working really well 3-4 days of symptoms
Sinopharm for the younger people under 60 is working really well ranging from nasal congestion alone to some flu like symptoms for 3-4 days. Older folks not so much.
Astra not doing well, people sick for 1 to 2 weeks, and seeing people getting hospitalized, some just need home O2 for a few days.
I don't have alot of J&J data since Ive only seen covid in 2 people with Janssens. They were young, ill for a week, no need for hospitalization.

Most of the Astra people I have seen would have vaxxed 5-6 months ago, Pfizers would have been in the last 3 months. So not sure how Pfizer will age.
Natural immunity post 6 months is still working really well.

Ive only seen 3 cases of myocarditis post Pfizer 2 young people and a man in his 50ties. ECG changes were present in all three and one actually had elevated cardiac enzymes. The person with elevated cardiac enzymes had covid

Un-vaxxed without natural immunity are getting hit hard with delta, 10-14 days of symptoms, Flu like symptoms lasting 2-3 days then a lung inflammatory phase lasting 10 days, with Dizziness, No energy, No Appetite, Dry cough. People with comorbidites, Pre Diabetic and actual Diabetics, people over 60 and cardiovascular disease needing hospitalisation.

Unvaxxed and omicron seems to be a walk in the park thus far. 7 to 10 days URT symptoms sorethorat seems to last longer than delta. No lung inflammatory phase.

These are my observations, they speak about the majority of what ive seen, there are exceptions to these observations.

[drchaos]

Chaos can you honestly tell us that vaxxed persons aren't recovering faster or having less issues than unvaxxed persons?

No. He/she cannot.

"IT" should mind its own business and let "him" answer his own questions.

[Chimera]

what is natural immunity?

you mean your immune system healthy otherwise ?

[drchaos]

what is natural immunity?

you mean your immune system healthy otherwise ?

Natural Immunity refers to getting covid and recovering.
Antibodies, IgM/G/A, T cell immunity to all the antigens from the SARS Cov2
Then formation of Long lived memory T&B cells.

[abducted]

LOL “dr”chaos,

[Chimera]

So from your own words .....getting pfizer and sinopharm better than being unvaxxed?

[drchaos]

So from your own words .....getting pfizer and sinopharm better than being unvaxxed?

Depends on alot of factors.
I do not agree with the blanket statement that everyone must be vaccinated.
Does vaccination provide protection from hospitalization and death? Yes

Depends on your risk factors, on your immunity to the virus.

For example if you eat sheit and have cormorbidities, then considering the vaccine is a good idea.

If you have already have had covid then your immunity is good and no need to get vaccinated. Your immunity will be even better with a vaccine on top of natural immunity but marginally so. You would be risking adverse effects for marginal protection which may not make sense to some people.

Pushing vaccines on healthy kids is dotish at best. You risk to benefit ratios would be way off.
Kids with comorbidities its an option that should be given serious thought.

[Carbon12]

So from your own words .....getting pfizer and sinopharm better than being unvaxxed?

You doh like religion but you being indoctrinated? What blasphemy. Religion2.0 = "Science"

[Dizzy28]

So from your own words .....getting pfizer and sinopharm better than being unvaxxed?

Depends on alot of factors.
I do not agree with the blanket statement that everyone must be vaccinated.
Does vaccination provide protection from hospitalization and death? Yes

Depends on your risk factors, on your immunity to the virus.

For example if you eat sheit and have cormorbidities, then considering the vaccine is a good idea.

If you have already have had covid then your immunity is good and no need to get vaccinated. Your immunity will be even better with a vaccine on top of natural immunity but marginally so. You would be risking adverse effects for marginal protection which may not make sense to some people.

Pushing vaccines on healthy kids is dotish at best. You risk to benefit ratios would be way off.
Kids with comorbidities its an option that should be given serious thought.

This is a level of nuance the soapboxers would not get

[adnj]

Depends on alot of factors.
I do not agree with the blanket statement that everyone must be vaccinated.
Does vaccination provide protection from hospitalization and death? Yes

Depends on your risk factors, on your immunity to the virus.

For example if you eat sheit and have cormorbidities, then considering the vaccine is a good idea.

If you have already have had covid then your immunity is good and no need to get vaccinated. Your immunity will be even better with a vaccine on top of natural immunity but marginally so. You would be risking adverse effects for marginal protection which may not make sense to some people.

Pushing vaccines on healthy kids is dotish at best. You risk to benefit ratios would be way off.
Kids with comorbidities its an option that should be given serious thought.

When not considering the risk presented to others with respect to being a COVID carrier, this is precisely the mainstream medical opinion of COVID vaccination. Albeit a poorly written one, perhaps.

[Chimera]

And chaos whats your opinion on if being vaccinated curbs or prevents or lessens virus shedding? Where you spread the virus to others?

[Chimera]

Idk...everybody could give an opinion.

He's a doctor supposedly.

He must be seeing in house holds where a parent is infected that the disease isn't spreading to the other parent or kids etc...

And be able to state if in his experience unvaxxed households more likely for covid to affect everyone or not.

[adnj]

Idk...everybody could give an opinion.

He's a doctor supposedly.

He must be seeing in house holds where a parent is infected that the disease isn't spreading to the other parent or kids etc...

And be able to state if in his experience unvaxxed households more likely for covid to affect everyone or not.

Then his/her experience and opinion is no more or less qualified than anyone else's. It is anecdotal and based solely on what he/she has actually experienced.

That is fine, so far as I am concerned. But it is not indicative of the population ut totem; it is not definitive. It should therefore be presented in that manner - and in my experience, such things seldom are.

[drchaos]

And chaos whats your opinion on if being vaccinated curbs or prevents or lessens virus shedding? Where you spread the virus to others?

Whenever you are vaccinated or have an infection you are going to be producing alot of antibodies. These antibodies are very high shortly after infection and then they will be dropping off sharply.
High levels of antibodies means less chance of being infected and also passing it on but there is a downside.
High levels of antibodies means higher levels if inflammation and immune activation. Your body drops antibody production for a reason post infection ... To save resources and to not run your immune system too hot as this causes collateral damage via inflammatory pathways within the body.
You do however form memory cells can that jump into action once you get reinfected which reduces the chance the death and hospitalizations.


There is another problem with constant boosting and that is T cell Exhaustion where you get diminishing returns with subsequent boosting and your T cells wont step into action when you actually need them with subsequent infections.

So vaccinating and boosting will prevent infection and drop viral load in the short term but at a cost and may actually make the problem worse in the longterm.
Chasing trying to boost people constantly wont work due to vaccine distribution and equity.
For that the work the whole world has to be vaccinated and boosted probably every 3-6 months at the same time, which is impossible.

[paid_influencer]

So from your own words .....getting pfizer and sinopharm better than being unvaxxed?

Depends on alot of factors.
I do not agree with the blanket statement that everyone must be vaccinated.
Does vaccination provide protection from hospitalization and death? Yes

Depends on your risk factors, on your immunity to the virus.

For example if you eat sheit and have cormorbidities, then considering the vaccine is a good idea.

If you have already have had covid then your immunity is good and no need to get vaccinated. Your immunity will be even better with a vaccine on top of natural immunity but marginally so. You would be risking adverse effects for marginal protection which may not make sense to some people.

Pushing vaccines on healthy kids is dotish at best. You risk to benefit ratios would be way off.
Kids with comorbidities its an option that should be given serious thought.

this guy gets it

[paid_influencer]

numeros

581/15

[drchaos]

Idk...everybody could give an opinion.

He's a doctor supposedly.

He must be seeing in house holds where a parent is infected that the disease isn't spreading to the other parent or kids etc...

And be able to state if in his experience unvaxxed households more likely for covid to affect everyone or not.

From what ive seen.

There are loads of people in unvaxxed households that may have 1 or 2 people with covid and the rest don't get it even though they are in close contact.

Your innate immune system which is your first line of defense plays a role here.

Think of your immune system like a city. Walls are the static defenses which is the innate immune system. You B cells and T cells are your adaptive immune system are like the guards inside your city walls.
If your walls/Innate immune defenses are strong then you can escape infection even though you are exposed.
If your walls/Innate immune system is breached then your Adaptive immune response needs to get involved and this can take a while (10-14 days) for them to figure out the invaders and eliminate them. The adaptive immune response is why you feel sick.

If your adaptive immune system is not healthy it can be over-activated by viral proteins and wreck your lung as in the cytokine storm that shuts down your lungs and makes your oxygen levels crash.

[drchaos]

i think recent studies show natural immunity reduces likelihood of reinfection- but that may have been pre omicron.- i.e. if u got infected with a previous strain u will still get omicron but if u get omicron u wont get omicron again. but then again the 1st gen vaccines not really having any effect on reducing spread of omicron although they reduced spread of delta etc.

if we want to reduce spread by vaccines we now need the updated vaccines targeted towards omicron - a booster dose of the current one does it but only for about 2-3 months.

We need to forget re-infection as a target or goal for us in this Pandemic.

The goal is having some immunity so even if you are reinfected you will not end up dying or being hospitalized.

Its an impossible task to keep chasing reinfection with a virus that spreads rapidly and mutates very quickly.

[timelapse]

What sorcery is this?
Dr Chaos actually making complete sense these days.Glad to see you using your powers for good.
On that note I haven't seen Hover on lately.My phone just auto corrected hover to Kaitlin for some odd reason...

[Mmoney607]

The covid committee running a survey for former patients. The survey only running for four days and on a Facebook page with 2 likes and nineteen shares. More people going and find out through this post that on that Facebook page. They can't be Mc serious at all.

[paid_influencer]

The covid committee running a survey for former patients. The survey only running for four days and on a Facebook page with 2 likes and nineteen shares. More people going and find out through this post that on that Facebook page. They can't be Mc serious at all.

wait what

[Mmoney607]

The covid committee running a survey for former patients. The survey only running for four days and on a Facebook page with 2 likes and nineteen shares. More people going and find out through this post that on that Facebook page. They can't be Mc serious at all.

wait what

You see. The had a survey and nobody knew about it. It was for former covid patients. It ran from the 1st to the 4th and was published on the ttma Facebook page.

[KM_2NR]

Guys the pandemic over? Carnival mode engage in full? A quick afternoon drive , place seems busier than ever