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The Inshan Ishmael Thread

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Re: The Inshan Ishmael Thread

Postby bluefete » February 14th, 2023, 9:27 pm

PNM in all its glory!

CUSSING LANGUAGE!


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Re: The Inshan Ishmael Thread

Postby Dizzy28 » February 15th, 2023, 9:42 am

Now we know!!

Cro Cro: I was singing about Imchan Imchelle
KEVON FELMINE
kevon.felmine@guardian.co.tt

“Let them do what they have to do,” a defiant Weston “Cro Cro” Rawlins said, following news that Bamboo businessman Inshan Ishmael is threatening a defamation lawsuit against him.

Rawlins told Guardian Media that he did not receive a pre-action protocol letter from Ishmael or his attorney Richard Jaggasar, nor did he see any reports of it as he does not watch the news.

“I have not received any letter from any man.”

Rawlins also denied that the person he referred to in the calypso titled “Another Sat Around Again” was Ishmael. In the letter on Monday, Jagassar said the calypso identifies Ishmael as the subject and links the Foreign-Used Vehicles dealer with stolen car parts in Bamboo. Jagessar said defamatory remarks in the calypso about Ishmael were untrue, lowering his client’s reputation and resulting in a loss of sales at his business. Ishmael, also a television presenter, wants Rawlins to pay general damages for defamation, aggravated damages, costs and any further reliefs a court considers appropriate. He also wants Rawlins to immediately issue a written apology and publish it in all three daily newspapers and an injunction preventing him from performing any song that defames him.

However, when told that Ishmael wants him to stop performing the calypso, Rawlins said they could not tell him not to perform his song. He plans to sing it at his upcoming gigs.

“That is downright, outright impertinent. They cannot ban me from singing anything. I am not worrying about them. My thing is, I am not singing about Inshan Ishmael. I do not know how he can depict my song as Inshan Ishmael. My song is in I-M-C-H-A-N I-M-C-H-E-L-L-E, so I do not know what problem he has, and we will take it down the line,” Rawlins said.

https://www.guardian.co.tt/news/cro-cro ... -4.twitter

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Re: The Inshan Ishmael Thread

Postby maj. tom » February 15th, 2023, 10:06 am

These 2 divisive and vile clowns need to shack up in a guest house up by Maracas beach for Carnival.
I've scrolled through some of Inshan facebook comments and realize that they're equally playing tit for tat in the same garbage heap.

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Re: The Inshan Ishmael Thread

Postby VexXx Dogg » February 15th, 2023, 10:18 am

Dizzy28 wrote:Now we know!!

Cro Cro: I was singing about Imchan Imchelle
KEVON FELMINE
kevon.felmine@guardian.co.tt

“Let them do what they have to do,” a defiant Weston “Cro Cro” Rawlins said, following news that Bamboo businessman Inshan Ishmael is threatening a defamation lawsuit against him.

Rawlins told Guardian Media that he did not receive a pre-action protocol letter from Ishmael or his attorney Richard Jaggasar, nor did he see any reports of it as he does not watch the news.

“I have not received any letter from any man.”

Rawlins also denied that the person he referred to in the calypso titled “Another Sat Around Again” was Ishmael. In the letter on Monday, Jagassar said the calypso identifies Ishmael as the subject and links the Foreign-Used Vehicles dealer with stolen car parts in Bamboo. Jagessar said defamatory remarks in the calypso about Ishmael were untrue, lowering his client’s reputation and resulting in a loss of sales at his business. Ishmael, also a television presenter, wants Rawlins to pay general damages for defamation, aggravated damages, costs and any further reliefs a court considers appropriate. He also wants Rawlins to immediately issue a written apology and publish it in all three daily newspapers and an injunction preventing him from performing any song that defames him.

However, when told that Ishmael wants him to stop performing the calypso, Rawlins said they could not tell him not to perform his song. He plans to sing it at his upcoming gigs.

“That is downright, outright impertinent. They cannot ban me from singing anything. I am not worrying about them. My thing is, I am not singing about Inshan Ishmael. I do not know how he can depict my song as Inshan Ishmael. My song is in I-M-C-H-A-N I-M-C-H-E-L-L-E, so I do not know what problem he has, and we will take it down the line,” Rawlins said.

https://www.guardian.co.tt/news/cro-cro ... -4.twitter


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: The Inshan Ishmael Thread

Postby The_Honourable » February 15th, 2023, 10:31 am

Dem pnm on facebook vex because deep down they are afraid Inshan might actually win and set some kind of precedent.

"Imchan Imchelle"... lol nice try :lol:

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Re: The Inshan Ishmael Thread

Postby pugboy » February 15th, 2023, 11:08 am

like the “your stolen parts” audio sounding very clear now

the borat woman say she heard “the stolen parts”

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Re: The Inshan Ishmael Thread

Postby wing » February 15th, 2023, 11:44 am

The_Honourable wrote:Dem pnm on facebook vex because deep down they are afraid Inshan might actually win and set some kind of precedent.

"Imchan Imchelle"... lol nice try
There should be some kind of precedent set for the crap that passes for music and culture.

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Re: The Inshan Ishmael Thread

Postby alfa » February 15th, 2023, 11:54 am

Cro cro is a petty lil boy. If you brave enough to sing about the man be a man yourself and say who you really referring to. This reminds me of primary school days when you would taunt a kid and then reply that 'is not only you name so'. That's the same childish logic this idiot using and imaging is big men in silk wearing fruity white wigs on their heads who will be presiding over this nonsense

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Re: The Inshan Ishmael Thread

Postby pugboy » February 15th, 2023, 1:02 pm

borat removed her fb post this morning, wonder why

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Re: The Inshan Ishmael Thread

Postby Dizzy28 » February 15th, 2023, 2:15 pm

pugboy wrote:borat removed her fb post this morning, wonder why


What did it post?

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Re: The Inshan Ishmael Thread

Postby pugboy » February 15th, 2023, 2:38 pm

referred to the
imchan article with usually sneer to stir up the
minions

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Re: The Inshan Ishmael Thread

Postby DMan7 » February 15th, 2023, 3:40 pm

SO wait nah, we have 2 imps in the media to contend with now? Impsbert and Impshan? :roll:

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Re: The Inshan Ishmael Thread

Postby Dizzy28 » February 15th, 2023, 3:45 pm

pugboy wrote:referred to the
imchan article with usually sneer to stir up the
minions


That has been her MO for years now. Post a dog whistle, rile up the "know them by their last name"crew and then ride out.

Then afterwards feign impartiality as an actual news site and not some racist cnut paid by our tax dollars to keep racial tensions going. She is very very good at what she does, I must give her that. The fact the bases of both parties are basically dumb as mud helps her out.

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Re: The Inshan Ishmael Thread

Postby pugboy » February 15th, 2023, 4:06 pm

yeah she has it very refined
all them social clowns have their own unique styles
unc need somebody with a little more finesse
they only have box drain type ppl

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Re: The Inshan Ishmael Thread

Postby The_Honourable » March 18th, 2023, 11:59 am

Inshan Ishmael sues Cro Cro, COTT over calypso

CAN a calypso be deemed defamatory?

This is the question a High Court judge will have to answer as businessman Inshan Ishmael has made good on his promise to take veteran calypsonian Weston “Cro Cro” Rawlins to court over his 2023 calypso Another Sat is Outside Again.

On Friday, Ishmael’s attorney Richard Jaggasar filed the defamation claim in the High Court.

Ishmael has also named the Copyright Organisation of TT (COTT) as a defendant.

Newsday was told the case has been assigned to Justice Frank Seepersad.

In the lawsuit, Ishmael claims the calypso, performed on February 5, directly named and defamed him.

“As a result of the lyrics of the song the claimant is now viewed as a criminal, a racist and a thief.

“The lyrics of the song directly name, identify and attack the claimant; and encourage others to attack the claimant verbally (and) physically and financially abstain from his businesses.”

It also alleges that Rawlins performed the song with COTT’s permission.

The lawsuit said the song reached thousands of people, who shared a video of the performance which was posted on YouTube and other platforms.

“The first defendant has added insult to injury and publicly called the claimant ‘sick in his head,’ ‘disrespectful,’ and a racist.

“Despite the threat of legal action, the first defendant has said he will continue to perform the song. For that reason, aggravated damages are claimed,” the lawsuit says.

Ishmael’s claim gave an account of his business dealings and the various community awards he has received for his social activism.

“The defamatory song was performed by the first defendant who has admitted to its contents and meaning…Following the performance of the defamatory song it was a widely accepted fact that the song lyrics referred to the claimant. It shall be contended at trial by the claimant that the ordinary man observing the song naturally draws the conclusion that the song refers to the claimant.”

The lawsuit says the media called Ishmael for a comment on the song and Rawlins, who, the claim alleges, said the song “refers plainly to the claimant.” It also said Rawlins was aware of the pre-litigation correspondence, sent on February 13, and had even advertised a show “intended to serve as his reply to the pre-action protocol letter.”

It quoted a newspaper article in which Rawlins claimed he sang about someone named “Imchan Imchelle.”

However, the lawsuit says the “defamatory song” does not have the name Imshan or Inshan but repeatedly refers to an “Ishmael” whom the public believes to be the businessman.

“In any event and for the removal of doubt the public continued to take the defamatory song as referring to the claimant.

“In fact, members of the public created memes of the claimant titling him as Imchan Imchelle.”

It also said an advertisement for an event hosted by Rawlins on March 16, at the Naparima Bowl in San Fernando and Goverment Campus plaza in Port of Spain about the legal action was in “mockery of the judicial system,” while ignoring the pre-action letter. It alleged the advertisement was meant to publicly reply to the letter and served as a fundraiser to pay legal fees.

“It is also noted that the advertisement says ‘Cro-Cro will have his lawyers on standby.’

“This is further insult to the judicial system since these lawyers have not advised the first defendant to respond to the pre-action protocol letter which is in breach of the practice directions on pre-action protocol correspondence.”

The claim against COTT alleges the organisation was told on February 27 of the concern that Rawlins’s song was considered defamatory.

It says COTT had a duty to issue a statement or take action in the matter, yet "did nothing,” although: “Their duties also include the duty to protect the rights of all citizens including the right of the claimant not to be defamed.”

It said as the copyright body, it owned the words to the song and “knew or ought to have known by their own assessment that the song was defamatory and did not discontinue the permission to perform same or prevent it from being broadcast.

“Even to date, they have opted to take no action.”

https://newsday.co.tt/2023/03/18/inshan ... er-calypso

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Re: The Inshan Ishmael Thread

Postby maj. tom » March 18th, 2023, 12:03 pm

Balanced finely on an edge for the Judge to decide. He will have to write a long ass decision that clearly shows the defamation because the local precedent will be set and defined on freedom of expression in art with this case.

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Re: The Inshan Ishmael Thread

Postby 16 cycles » March 18th, 2023, 3:39 pm

That CoTT racket for ppl to pay yearly to play the radio in your place of business ...where do the fees go?

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Re: The Inshan Ishmael Thread

Postby pugboy » March 18th, 2023, 6:10 pm

the judge will need to have some stones to rule that crocro living is libelous
it could have lasting effects on the future of the junk they sing

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Re: The Inshan Ishmael Thread

Postby The_Honourable » March 18th, 2023, 6:39 pm

Apparently, Inshan was granted the injunction against COTT and Cro Cro who cannot sing the song unless the offending verses are edited out. The substantive case will proceed to trial to determine defamation or not.

Pnmites on facebook watching the judge surname and forming some strong racist opinions.

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Re: The Inshan Ishmael Thread

Postby paid_influencer » March 18th, 2023, 7:16 pm

The_Honourable wrote:Apparently, Inshan was granted the injunction against COTT and Cro Cro who cannot sing the song unless the offending verses are edited out. The substantive case will proceed to trial to determine defamation or not.

Pnmites on facebook watching the judge surname and forming some strong racist opinions.


looks like a unc judge. only pnm judges are fair bro. not racial i not racial

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Re: The Inshan Ishmael Thread

Postby j.o.e » March 18th, 2023, 8:06 pm

This is the most attention Cro Cro ever get since cussing a man while driving a cepep van. Law taking their time to make judgement on a song most people (including me ) never heard or will ever hear.

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Re: The Inshan Ishmael Thread

Postby pugboy » March 18th, 2023, 8:38 pm

ent frank is also a lay minister

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Re: The Inshan Ishmael Thread

Postby The_Honourable » March 18th, 2023, 10:10 pm

Judge orders Cro Cro to sing 'sanitised version' of song or face contempt charge

FORMER calypso monarch Weston “Cro Cro” Rawlins will only be allowed to perform a sanitised version of his 2023 calypso, Another Sat is Outside Again, at two shows this weekend in San Fernando and Port of Spain.

In an emergency hearing on Saturday, Justice Frank Seepersad issued a wider injunction against the calypsonian in a lawsuit filed by businessman Inshan Ishmael.

Ishmael initially wanted the court to prevent Rawlins from singing the song at the Naparima Bowl and Government Campus Plaza but then asked that both shows be stopped.

While the veteran calypsonian can sing his 2023 offering, he cannot repeat any of the words complained of as offensive and defamatory by Ishmael until the court determines if the words are, in fact, about Ishmael and defamatory.

He can rewrite the song but cannot recreate any references to the businessman, the judge’s order says.

“The defendant is a former calypso monarch, he has an extensive musical portfolio and is not a “one-hit wonder.” It is likely that the defendant‘s fans would enjoy his performance even if he does not perform the imputed calypso.”

Ishmael was represented by Nigel Trancuso and Richard Jaggasar while Rawlins was represented by Senior Counsel Gilbert Peterson and Kareem Marcelle at Saturday’s virtual hearing.

The injunction will continue until the trial of the matter or otherwise directed, Seepersad ordered.

“The artform has fashioned the way we live, think and socialise and the commentary it offers can catalyse awareness and change. Creative licence, however, cannot be used as a sword to engage in ill-informed or baseless attacks which can decimate an individual's character or integrity.

“We strive to live in a civilised space where freedom of expression must be balanced and must be engaged in a reasonable, fair and proportionate manner which ensures that the fundamental rights of others are not eviscerated.

“This court will not condone or accept any position which advances a narrative that social media comments or commentary by calypsonians is sacrosanct and that people should be free to say whatever they feel as they ‘speak their minds’ even if the content is divisive, derogatory, deceitful, dishonest or defamatory.”

The judge also warned that if any part of his order was violated, a no-tolerance approach will be taken and he will not shy away from finding anyone in contempt of breaching any court order.

In his arguments, Trancuso pointed to newspaper interviews and radio broadcasts with Rawlins speaking of the song. He said if allowed to sing the contentious song, his client’s reputation will continue to be assassinated and no amount of compensation would suffice.

Marcelle argued that Ishmael had not crossed the two major hurdles – if there was a serious issue to be tried or that the song was libellous. He also said he failed to show the impact of the alleged distress caused to Ishmael. Marcelle also pointed to possible defences open to Rawlins, including "fair comment." However, the judge said "fair comment" could not be based on speculation.

In his ruling, Seepersad said, “The court notes that the defendant's song referenced the name ‘Inshan’ which was juxtaposed against the assertion that this individual sells stolen car parts in the Bamboo.

“The claimant is a well-known social media and public commentator and the court takes judicial notice that he owns and operates a car parts business in the Bamboo.”

He referred to the media interviews with Rawlins and said, at this stage, it was plausible that Ishmael could establish at trial the calypso referred to him.

“The words used in the calypso are rather direct.”

“A person's reputation is not a tradable commodity but it is a prized possession. It is carefully fashioned over one's lifetime and must be jealously guarded. When an individual's reputation is defiled without justification, damages can never be viewed as an appropriate remedy.”

He said the greater risk of justice would be to refuse to grant the injunction.

“The court notes that if ultimately at the trial, it finds that the defendant did defame the claimant, it would be dangerous, obnoxious and unacceptable for the defendant to have milked the defamatory material for either financial gain or to effect continued and repeated damage the claimant’s reputation.

The issue of costs was reserved.

https://newsday.co.tt/2023/03/18/judge- ... pt-charge/

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Re: The Inshan Ishmael Thread

Postby 16 cycles » March 19th, 2023, 10:05 am

Cro Cro should sing it still for all the freedom of speech persons who will help fund his lawyers at trial....see how far artistic license could take you...

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Re: The Inshan Ishmael Thread

Postby pugboy » March 19th, 2023, 10:40 am

yup part of our culture to denigrate ppl in the name of entertainment
the price clown made a living off doing that

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Re: The Inshan Ishmael Thread

Postby Cantmis » March 19th, 2023, 11:14 am

Don't the "allyuh to wicked ppl" cuss police normal, I want that right also.

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Re: The Inshan Ishmael Thread

Postby Chimera » March 19th, 2023, 11:38 am

Obscene language is a charge locally tho
Cantmis wrote:Don't the "allyuh to wicked ppl" cuss police normal, I want that right also.

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Re: The Inshan Ishmael Thread

Postby Chimera » March 19th, 2023, 11:39 am

pugboy wrote:yup part of our culture to denigrate ppl in the name of entertainment
the price clown made a living off doing that
Is that our culture only? From what I've seen ....comedians worldwide do the same thing

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Re: The Inshan Ishmael Thread

Postby Dizzy28 » March 19th, 2023, 12:33 pm

Phone Surgeon wrote:
pugboy wrote:yup part of our culture to denigrate ppl in the name of entertainment
the price clown made a living off doing that
Is that our culture only? From what I've seen ....comedians worldwide do the same thing


Even in the US there are libel laws a comedian has to tread around. In a few Netflix standup specials the comedians would speak about how they have to pass jokes by Netflix's lawyers.
There is no carte blanche comedy despite what you may think.

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Re: The Inshan Ishmael Thread

Postby paid_influencer » March 19th, 2023, 12:44 pm

the denigrating people is part of our failed culture. youth growing up in that failed culture don't respect others, don't respect themselves. they grow up see nothing wrong with denigrating other people, abusing people, robbing people, raping people, killing out people. is all a joke for them kyak kyak kyak

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