HAs Australia gone friking mad?

[Ben_spanna]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/c ... e-19026299

Children will soon be able to choose their gender in Australia after lawmakers backed a new bill.
Most Australians can now change their gender on legal documents Down Under, even if they have not undergone surgery.

The state of Victoria, which includes the city of Melbourne, has become the fifth state in the country to allow people to alter the sex on their birth certificate.
Kids will also be able to officially change their gender or identify as non-binary, as long as they have permission from their parents.

Why in the hell would you give those powers of decision to a child? its completely stupid....

[maj. tom]

How they mad? so who to give the power of their own lives to? someone else? What if it had a law where someone else decided that you should put a penis in your mouth tonight at 8pm? you wouldn't rather want to make that choice yourself?

You ever tried to understand what mental anguish a child has to go through while growing up while discovering that they are gay or transgender because current society makes it seem very wrong?

[Ben_spanna]

Not disputing that there are some children that have natural hormone imbalances, BUT as a child you do not know any better, and how is it right that a BOY can be classified as a GIRL legally at such a young age? just sit back and think about it.

[maj. tom]

how do YOU know better about other peoples lives and sexuality? You chose to be straight?

[Ben_spanna]

they are Children tom. they dont know the difference between right and wrong or have any proper morals installed in them as yet...….. and then you wonder why there are so many mentally screwed up kids in the world.... that turn into unstable adults.

[maj. tom]

Well maybe we need to start looking at things differently and taking quite a different approach in how we treat children in this age of internet and easily accessible information and ideas. For one thing, they are going to be a hundred times smarter than us just because they were born in a world of internet. But on the other hand everyone sincerely believes that traditional education and methods are the best and only way forward, despite their obvious shortcomings.

Like i said before, if it is a bad idea humanity will eventually reject it. If not, it'll make a better future for our children. Let the great social experiments on human sexuality continue!

[redmanjp]

those children who undergo surgery to change sex may have to take puberty blockers which essentially stops them from ever going through puberty properly which would have all kinds of consequences later on, not to mention regret when the child turns adult

[DTAC]

If Star Trek was mainstream, by now you'd have a tickbox to identify as a Vulcan.

[hydroep]

This seems unwise.

Generally speaking, children are easily influenced and possess neither the intellect nor experience to make life altering decisions. At that age they like to experiment, boys may emulate their mothers and girls their father. Then next month they dressing up like their favourite cartoon characters. After that is something else...you get what I mean.

Hence the role of parents in encouraging children to express themselves healthily and providing guidance though their formative years.

The problem is you have one set of crack-nor-arse millennial parents who have grown up liberal crazy milk, believing that children are capable of making adult decisions.

But dem Aussies is a special bunch. There was one on national television stating that parents should develop a culture of consent. As such they should get their babies' permission before changing their nappies. I kid you not...

[88sins]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/children-australia-can-now-choose-19026299

Children will soon be able to choose their gender in Australia after lawmakers backed a new bill.
Most Australians can now change their gender on legal documents Down Under, even if they have not undergone surgery.

The state of Victoria, which includes the city of Melbourne, has become the fifth state in the country to allow people to alter the sex on their birth certificate.
Kids will also be able to officially change their gender or identify as non-binary, as long as they have permission from their parents.

Why in the hell would you give those powers of decision to a child? its completely stupid....

From what I gather the choice to do so is with the kid, but the power and ability to act on that choice remains with the adults.
That said, its not a terribly bad idea, but it's also not an idea that displays exceptional genius either.
cuz you go be in an interaction with a big hairy deep voiced hard faced man & have to make the conscious effort to find out what he thinks he is first and then call him sir/ms/mrs/it/whateverthehell else

[Ben_spanna]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/children-australia-can-now-choose-19026299

Children will soon be able to choose their gender in Australia after lawmakers backed a new bill.
Most Australians can now change their gender on legal documents Down Under, even if they have not undergone surgery.

The state of Victoria, which includes the city of Melbourne, has become the fifth state in the country to allow people to alter the sex on their birth certificate.
Kids will also be able to officially change their gender or identify as non-binary, as long as they have permission from their parents.

Why in the hell would you give those powers of decision to a child? its completely stupid....

From what I gather the choice to do so is with the kid, but the power and ability to act on that choice remains with the adults.
That said, its not a terribly bad idea, but it's also not an idea that displays exceptional genius either.
cuz you go be in an interaction with a big hairy deep voiced hard faced man & have to make the conscious effort to find out what he thinks he is first and then call him sir/ms/mrs/it/whateverthehell else

Next ting you slapp the so called big man, and on his birthpapers hes registered as a FEMALE, then you would have struck a woman for no reason and you being looked upon as an offender.

[redmanjp]

in some place the parent can't even say no otherwise it's child abuse!

[DTAC]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/children-australia-can-now-choose-19026299

Children will soon be able to choose their gender in Australia after lawmakers backed a new bill.
Most Australians can now change their gender on legal documents Down Under, even if they have not undergone surgery.

The state of Victoria, which includes the city of Melbourne, has become the fifth state in the country to allow people to alter the sex on their birth certificate.
Kids will also be able to officially change their gender or identify as non-binary, as long as they have permission from their parents.

Why in the hell would you give those powers of decision to a child? its completely stupid....

From what I gather the choice to do so is with the kid, but the power and ability to act on that choice remains with the adults.
That said, its not a terribly bad idea, but it's also not an idea that displays exceptional genius either.
cuz you go be in an interaction with a big hairy deep voiced hard faced man & have to make the conscious effort to find out what he thinks he is first and then call him sir/ms/mrs/it/whateverthehell else

Next ting you slapp the so called big man, and on his birthpapers hes registered as a FEMALE, then you would have struck a woman for no reason and you being looked upon as an offender.

And don't forget have the right to use Female bathrooms.

[matr1x]

This is what happens when a society has poor parenting. You let a child go without guidance and they will trim their hair and be half bald. Or jump off the roof with a Cape. Not a good idea to give them this.

[Slartibartfast]

I identify as a bed and I want my own pronoun.

Or can I just identify as an individual and claim breach of equal rights if I am denied any opportunity whatsoever?

[bluefete]

Not sure if you are trolling or serious.

However, I wonder what YOU would do if, one day, your 3 year old son/daughter comes to you and says that they want to reverse their gender.

Based on your previous comments, you would be all for it and would help them to find a hospital to do the operation.

Well maybe we need to start looking at things differently and taking quite a different approach in how we treat children in this age of internet and easily accessible information and ideas. For one thing, they are going to be a hundred times smarter than us just because they were born in a world of internet. But on the other hand everyone sincerely believes that traditional education and methods are the best and only way forward, despite their obvious shortcomings.

Like i said before, if it is a bad idea humanity will eventually reject it. If not, it'll make a better future for our children. Let the great social experiments on human sexuality continue!

[fatboy slim]

humans are the most disgusting species in the world

[maj. tom]

Nope bluefete, and that's not what the law in question says either. Whenever a complicated topic is brought up for discussion there always a bunch who only see black and white, rather than consider just how complex the situation really is, and refuse to even listen to a debate or a discussion or even what the group being affected has to say themselves. I can see that you really have no idea how complicated the question of human sexuality really is.

We are supposed to better than that in the 21st century. Or else that type of bigoted attitude is no better than the loving Christians (who of course knew what was best for the savages) who committed the terrible genocides when they discovered the New World.

[rollingstock]

I wanna change my gender to female so I can use their bathroom and changing rooms.
Accidental door opening etc.
If confronted when I get a hard on I cry discrimination cause I'm a lesbian.

[zoom rader]

I wanna change my gender to female so I can use their bathroom and changing rooms.
Accidental door opening etc.
If confronted when I get a hard on I cry discrimination cause I'm a lesbian.

Plus you will get free drink and food when you go out with beta mem.

[88sins]

I wanna change my gender to female so I can use their bathroom and changing rooms.
Accidental door opening etc.
If confronted when I get a hard on I cry discrimination cause I'm a lesbian.

dis makes so much sense

[bluefete]

You sound like you have been totally indoctrinated by living in "foreign".

Lib-tards are the ones who have made human sexuality unnecessarily complicated.

Did you really read that article? Do you know how many doctors will just sign off on that because "there is tons of money to be made?"

Human sexuality is black and white. It is either you are born with a penis or a vagina. Someone born inter-sex (with male and female external sex organs) should be internally examined to see whether he/she has a womb or otherwise.

It is sick people who are re-arranging simple things to fit their dysfunctional agenda.

You should go see what the international Athletic Committee is trying to do to Caster Semanya.

BTW - I love Rollingstock's comment. Bang on point.

Nope bluefete, and that's not what the law in question says either. Whenever a complicated topic is brought up for discussion there always a bunch who only see black and white, rather than consider just how complex the situation really is, and refuse to even listen to a debate or a discussion or even what the group being affected has to say themselves. I can see that you really have no idea how complicated the question of human sexuality really is.

We are supposed to better than that in the 21st century. Or else that type of bigoted attitude is no better than the loving Christians (who of course knew what was best for the savages) who committed the terrible genocides when they discovered the New World.

I wanna change my gender to female so I can use their bathroom and changing rooms.
Accidental door opening etc.
If confronted when I get a hard on I cry discrimination cause I'm a lesbian.

[maj. tom]

"Sumerian and Akkadian texts from 4500 years ago document transgender priests, and Assyrian texts document trans prostitutes; evidence suggests these gender roles go back to prehistoric times and may have a common origin with third gender roles that were accepted in America before European colonization, some of which (like Navajo nádleehi and Zuni lhamana) survived colonizers' hostility."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history

yes, it's simple. It's black and white, right? Transgender, queers, gays, etc. have been happening since the dawn of modern humans. Yeah. I trying to tell you that everything in this world is not black and white, and it's met but the utmost, highest, self-righteous ignorance once again. You would rather people suffer for your failed religious ideals, rather than see them happy and live their own lives in peace. The British should have kept their slavery ideals too knowing that they were always right, forever.

[rspann]

Maj Tom, so by that reasoning, if a child wants to have sex with a 60 yo man, because they are getting a strong feeling to do so,they are free to choose? After all it's their life. I 'm trying to follow your reasoning.

[maj. tom]

Let me just wade through this pitchfork crowd of morally outraged misinterpretation-based-on-feelings plebs here and state what the bill really says.

Children will also be able alter the gender on their birth certificate, provided they have parental support and a statement from a doctor or registered psychologist stating that the decision is in the child’s best interests.

Victoria became the fifth state in Australia to adopt the reform, bringing it in line with Tasmania, Northern Territory, South Australia and the ACT. (lol, so it's only NOW you all decided to become outraged huh)

"These important new laws are about ensuring everyone can live their life as they choose, and that includes having
a birth certificate that reflects their true identity," she said.

"The current surgery requirement sends a painful and false message that there is something wrong with being
trans or gender diverse that needs to be ‘fixed’ – that’s why we’re removing this cruel and unfair barrier."

https://www.theage.com.au/national/vict ... 52leu.html

And to answer that question above:

1. You're mixing up sexual identity and development psychology with sexual mating schedules that happen hormonally at the right age.
2. the first paragraph above states again... oh it's not a horny whim and fancy tickle decision? it's more than that?
3. Stop attempting to tell other people how to live their own lives which have nothing to do with anyone else. Another person's sexuality is none of your business. You all are on the wrong side of history here. If nature knows better then it will fail. If not then society will prevail long after you're dead and gone and your great-great grandchild would never face discrimination when he/she decides about being transgender, no thanks to your narrow minds that cannot envision a better future. You linear a-to-b-therefore-c logic is flawed in the first place.

I don't think I have anymore to say on this. I know where i stand when it comes to defending people's human rights and freedom of choices. And God forbid if any of your offspring and generations should have to suffer the mental torture and rejected disgust in this country of being gay or transgender and face so much bigotry and pain, instead of love, especially from a parent or family member.

[rspann]

I asked my question based on your first reply to the op's rejection of the ability of a child making such important decisions, but I guess it doesn't make sense discussing if nobody else should have a different opinion. My point was that the same reason that a child cannot make decisions pertaining to having sex and generally being under control / protection , by laws governing certain aspects of their lives ,should apply to an important decision like this, which they might make not having a proper understanding of the implications because of lack of maturity or experience.

[maj. tom]

I normally would agree, but these people have debated the issue with way more knowledge and information than I have. And it's not the stupid politics of America.

I keep saying that you can't cheat nature. If it's a mistake we will fail and reject all this. But we need to try to know the outcome of the experiment.

[rspann]

......

[rspann]

I would have less concerns if the decision was made at an age where the individual would have been in a position to make an informed decision on their own without having external factors assisting them in their decision. If they are at an age of consent ,which is established to protect the child in the first place, then the decision is purely theirs. That I don't have a problem with.

Establishing laws and ages of consent to protect a child because of them not being able to take decisions rationally, is opposed to letting a minor make an important decision such as this albeit supported by a parent or doctor. What is needed are laws to stop the harassment and bullying that they face and support systems to assist them in coping with their feelings.

[88sins]

3. Stop attempting to tell other people how to live their own lives which have nothing to do with anyone else. Another person's sexuality is none of your business. You all are on the wrong side of history here. If nature knows better then it will fail. If not then society will prevail long after you're dead and gone and your great-great grandchild would never face discrimination when he/she decides about being transgender, no thanks to your narrow minds that cannot envision a better future. You linear a-to-b-therefore-c logic is flawed in the first place.

.

well, truth be told,it's the alphabet ppl that actually pushing to make their business everybody's business, by demanding that everybody MUST accept them & their lifestyle and sexual preferences as normal and it's been building for quite some time now. SO it seems rather hippocritical to tell John Straight to mind his own business when Jay Gay is demanding that John Straight must accept him, even going so far as to demand lawmakers pass legislation that will force John straight to comply lest John be made suffer under the penalty of law.
Now, I really don't care who does what with whom, or sticks what where or eats what how, but I know that some ppl do not condone lgbtqi ppl. they dislike these persons sexual preferences and philosophies intensely. So much so it makes them physically ill. So, what makes thse lgbtqi ppl right to be accepted so much more important than any other peoples right to not be exposed to them or forced into accepting them if they don't want to?

On the idea of this whole Aussie legislation, nuttn really wrong terribly with it as some ppl making it out to be. Kid decides if they're boy or girl, then informs parents, parents decide if to take him to a shrink for eval or not, if yes then shrink either agrees with kid or not, then parents either allow transition or not. All power lies with the adults, so even tho kids will be te ones deciding what they are, they can't physically and legally do anything about it without adult authorization and inputs.

But I can see one particularly dangerous direction laws may take in future.
Some parent will have a trans child, and not want them to transition immediately & wait till they are older, and said child will sue said parent for the right to transition on their own, citing that they alone should be the ones deciding what goes on with their bodies & their parents are not seeking the best interests of their childs mental and physical health
If/when that happens, and if the kid is successful, this planet will be screwed.