Partitioning of Land

[The_Honourable]

Yes tuners, I know these are questions for an attorney but just looking at feedback here. Anybody ever went through the process? How long it takes and what are the steps?

Also, is it treated differently with occupied land versus vacant land? and RPO/RPA title versus Deed of Conveyance?

Thanks!

[Dizzy28]

This is different from sub dividing?

[The_Honourable]

This is different from sub dividing?

It's a form of sub-division by court order (partition order). Example: You have undivided shares in a piece of land with others but you want your share (piece) to build. There is no agreement among the parties, or they may have died so their share is stuck in their estate like a Tenants in Common situation. Now you have to go to court to get an order to cut out your piece separate from the larger piece where the other owners are tied into. You will then be given a "Partition Deed" where you are free to sell, mortgage, etc.

[Dizzy28]

Ohhh. Learn something everyday!!

[ruffneck_12]

make sure u partition with ntfs over fat32

[Kenjo]

make sure u partition with ntfs over fat32

Lol

[The_Honourable]

make sure u partition with ntfs over fat32

As an IT guy i appreciate this joke

Yeah tuners, anybody went through the court process?

[ProtonPowder]

Didnt go through the process myself but have read through a couple deeds of partition.

The one i remember best was a 1 acre parcel split 5 ways among 5 siblings. They got a surveyor to divvy it up with an access road and turning point in the parcel from the main road, and the 5 subplots arranged neatly around it.
The part where it says "now tis deed witnesseth" described exactly who gets which parcel #, and there were 5 schedules underneath, each describing the parcel that a sibling got.

1 registered deed, 5 parcels. It was beautiful work, except for the damn thing having a separate cadastral for each parcel rather than 1 showing all 5.

[Redman]

Ok hypothetical Q.

in Honorable s case..the partitioning will create X pieces of property on a singular piece of land.

But these will have different values...road front,lowest,where the drain is etc...
How is this handled if there is no agreement in the first place?

[*KRONIK*]

I have seen similar as well, except divided into 7.

The mother died and all the children did a partition, seperate plans on each page as you mentioned and mentiojs of each person being assigned land from 1 particular schedule.

The same land, 2 parcels from the 1st subdivision were amalgamated and subdivided back into 7.
But 1 sibling was given all to distribute with along the father....
Weirdest piece of thing i have come across

Didnt go through the process myself but have read through a couple deeds of partition.

The one i remember best was a 1 acre parcel split 5 ways among 5 siblings. They got a surveyor to divvy it up with an access road and turning point in the parcel from the main road, and the 5 subplots arranged neatly around it.
The part where it says "now tis deed witnesseth" described exactly who gets which parcel #, and there were 5 schedules underneath, each describing the parcel that a sibling got.

1 registered deed, 5 parcels. It was beautiful work, except for the damn thing having a separate cadastral for each parcel rather than 1 showing all 5.

[hydroep]

Never heard about this before, inside for info.

Ok hypothetical Q.

in Honorable s case..the partitioning will create X pieces of property on a singular piece of land.

But these will have different values...road front,lowest,where the drain is etc...
How is this handled if there is no agreement in the first place?

Court's discretion?

Also, I'm gathering from The_Honourable's description that each party must go to court to cut out their piece. Early bird gets the worm...

[The_Honourable]

Ok hypothetical Q.

in Honorable's case..the partitioning will create X pieces of property on a singular piece of land.

But these will have different values...road front,lowest,where the drain is etc...
How is this handled if there is no agreement in the first place?

The following came from a search clerk at the registrar general office. If the land is vacant, the surveyor will divide it starting from the road (or reserved road created or already existent but not developed) front to back to be as equal as possible... that is if the shares between the parties are equal making the survey and division easy. If the shares are of different values, then more work for the surveyor to divide. Whatever the best possible solution the surveyor comes up with, the court will run with that and the parties have to accept. Now if the other parties are deceased, you can't touch their shares unless you are related to them in some form and able to file for their estate. Once granted, you get their share and you can fix to suit. If you can't touch them, and you go to the court to have your piece cut out, you can work with the surveyor to get the best piece of the land possible according to your share since there is no resistance. If the property is tenanted, situation just got more complex.

I have seen similar as well, except divided into 7.

The mother died and all the children did a partition, seperate plans on each page as you mentioned and mentiojs of each person being assigned land from 1 particular schedule.

The same land, 2 parcels from the 1st subdivision were amalgamated and subdivided back into 7.
But 1 sibling was given all to distribute with along the father....
Weirdest piece of thing i have come across

Didnt go through the process myself but have read through a couple deeds of partition.

The one i remember best was a 1 acre parcel split 5 ways among 5 siblings. They got a surveyor to divvy it up with an access road and turning point in the parcel from the main road, and the 5 subplots arranged neatly around it.
The part where it says "now tis deed witnesseth" described exactly who gets which parcel #, and there were 5 schedules underneath, each describing the parcel that a sibling got.

1 registered deed, 5 parcels. It was beautiful work, except for the damn thing having a separate cadastral for each parcel rather than 1 showing all 5.

Hmm, thanks for this Kronik and Proton. I'm assuming that a partition deed doesn't necessarily mean that each party will have their own separate deed, but one deed with separate schedules with its particulars. My case is actually more complex than that which i'll explain below in a bit.

Court's discretion?

Also, I'm gathering from The_Honourable's description that each party must go to court to cut out their piece. Early bird gets the worm...

Not necessarily each, one just have to trigger the process. If all the parties are involved in the case, yes at the court discretion they will divide to suit according to share size. Who don't like where their piece end up, well boo. I'm not sure what happens if some of the parties are deceased which is my case. I don't know if the court will still partition (sub-divide) according to share size for each party even if they are deceased, or they will just cut out the piece for the person who applied to the court for relief.

My situation is that the shares in a piece of land goes like this. Person A - 1/6th, Person B - 1/6th, Person C - 1/6th, Person A & B - 1/3 (from their mom), Person D - 1/18th, Person E - 1/9th. Since it's undivided shares, it means there are no specific areas on the land the shares are designated too. Yeah... i know... that's country people for you back in the day setting up their children and grandchildren who now have to sort it out.

Luckily, Person A got the joint share so his share is now 1/2. Persons B, C, D & E are deceased. Person A now has to go through the court to get his 1/2 piece. The land is tenanted also so this is a mess.

[rspann]

Some people leave one lot of land for 10 children. Then the children use cutlass to divide it up.

[The_Honourable]

Some people leave one lot of land for 10 children. Then the children use cutlass to divide it up.

Now that is plain evil

If that reach to court and it have no agreement, court will sell it, take dey fees, whatever remains divide by 10 and hymc.

[rspann]

I bought a property from the sando supreme court for $130g ,that money shared four ways ,none of them still couldn't buy anything for themselves.

[Evoloution]

Rehashing this. If you have reclassified a piece of land from Single Family to Multi Family, are you able to have two separate deeds where one section already has a house and one section is vacant land. I know you may not be able to split into two lots since once piece is 6000sqft and one is 3600sqft with 1200sqft of road access.

[16 cycles]

how is it handled for Town and Country and utility access? WASA T&TEC etc?

How is this different from sub-division?

[timelapse]

Check a good land lawyer.There are a lot of dotish old laws that aren't apparent and may end you up in problems.Tuner ain't the place for these questions

[alfa]

As someone mentioned lawyers, shop around for a good and trustworthy one as there are too many stories of lawyers scamming people of their lands.
From my own personal experiences with high court and lawyers they tend to be bigger scamps that the entity/person you're taking to court

[The_Honourable]

Rehashing this. If you have reclassified a piece of land from Single Family to Multi Family, are you able to have two separate deeds where one section already has a house and one section is vacant land. I know you may not be able to split into two lots since once piece is 6000sqft and one is 3600sqft with 1200sqft of road access.

If the lands are under the common law (deed), yes you can subdivide by calling in a surveyor who will register it with lands and surveys. From the "parent deed", you create two new deeds one being 6,000 sq ft and the other 3,600 sq ft.

The downside to that is that you would not have TCPD approvals. If you are selling the parcel with the house or the parcel with the land alone, it would be a cash buy. If anyone builds on the vacant lot, there is a risk that they get reported to TCPD or get extorted by persons in the respective regional corporation.

An attorney can tell you legally what you can do, a surveyor can tell you what can be done physically to the land so that both you and the attorney can be better informed. I highly suggest you go through TCPD and get a status update to find out if the lands are suitable for TCPD consideration.

You can do boundary modifications, reduce 6000 sq ft to 5000, add that 1000 to the 3600 making it 4600, and see if you can somehow recover 400 or so from the road access. It sounds easy but in reality, it may be impossible. I don't know the shape of the lands, if it is already fenced off, have other infrastructure on it, alternative access exists, or the occupiers (family or whoever) would agree to boundary changes. If you have liberty to do so, you and the surveyor can figure it out then send it to TCPD for approval.

[*KRONIK*]

Rehashing this. If you have reclassified a piece of land from Single Family to Multi Family, are you able to have two separate deeds where one section already has a house and one section is vacant land. I know you may not be able to split into two lots since once piece is 6000sqft and one is 3600sqft with 1200sqft of road access.

If the lands are under the common law (deed), yes you can subdivide by calling in a surveyor who will register it with lands and surveys. From the "parent deed", you create two new deeds one being 6,000 sq ft and the other 3,600 sq ft.

The downside to that is that you would not have TCPD approvals. If you are selling the parcel with the house or the parcel with the land alone, it would be a cash buy. If anyone builds on the vacant lot, there is a risk that they get reported to TCPD or get extorted by persons in the respective regional corporation.

An attorney can tell you legally what you can do, a surveyor can tell you what can be done physically to the land so that both you and the attorney can be better informed. I highly suggest you go through TCPD and get a status update to find out if the lands are suitable for TCPD consideration.

You can do boundary modifications, reduce 6000 sq ft to 5000, add that 1000 to the 3600 making it 4600, and see if you can somehow recover 400 or so from the road access. It sounds easy but in reality, it may be impossible. I don't know the shape of the lands, if it is already fenced off, have other infrastructure on it, alternative access exists, or the occupiers (family or whoever) would agree to boundary changes. If you have liberty to do so, you and the surveyor can figure it out then send it to TCPD for approval.

Excellent info here

[pugboy]

i don’t understand the issue with tcpd here
can’t they just reapply to tcpd for whatever they want to do with the smaller plots?

The downside to that is that you would not have TCPD approvals. If you are selling the parcel with the house or the parcel with the land alone, it would be a cash buy. If anyone builds on the vacant lot, there is a risk that they get reported to TCPD or get extorted by persons in the respective regional corporation

[The_Honourable]

i don’t understand the issue with tcpd here
can’t they just reapply to tcpd for whatever they want to do with the smaller plots?

The downside to that is that you would not have TCPD approvals. If you are selling the parcel with the house or the parcel with the land alone, it would be a cash buy. If anyone builds on the vacant lot, there is a risk that they get reported to TCPD or get extorted by persons in the respective regional corporation

TCPD doesn't approve lots below 5,000 square feet. They only make leeway for HDC houses down to 4,800 i believe.

Evolution's case is that his land space is 10,800 square feet or so. If the land was vacant, he could have gotten two 5,000 or more sq.ft lots approved easy in addition to maybe a reserve access to both, according to where the public road is. It seems that how the house was built and maybe fenced off, one section ended up being more than the other. TCPD may either approve the whole 10,800 bloc as one or they only approve the 6,000 sq ft lot by itself.

If evolution want TCPD approvals, he and the surveyor would have to figure out how to redo the boundaries of the two portions and access road. The question is if he would be prevented from doing so for different reasons as mentioned in my last post.

[16 cycles]

Town and Country also zones - some residential areas are not allowed to sub-divide into smaller lots - e.g. not allowed to split 20, 000 sq ft to 2x 10, 000sq ft

[The_Honourable]

Correct

Then there is a potential issue, was the 10,800 sq ft parcel itself officially subdivided from a larger parcel? or was the larger parcel "cut up" without approvals and sold?

A status letter from TCPD would be able to answer what 16cycles and myself brought up. You can go to developtt, signup and apply for the letter. It's free.

[pugboy]

i never knew about this 5000sq ft min stipulation
there are some properties in woodbrook and st james which i am sure are less than 5000sq ft

[The_Honourable]

i never knew about this 5000sq ft min stipulation
there are some properties in woodbrook and st james which i am sure are less than 5000sq ft

They probably have less but never approved. Also those undersized parcels could have existed long before the town and country planning act.