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T&T's debt to China stands at...

this is how we do it.......

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby death365 » June 4th, 2019, 12:06 pm

Also China has more US Treasury Bonds than any other country/organization, which is a brilliant move - the hands that have the USD rules the world. approx 1.2 trillion

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby zoom rader » June 4th, 2019, 2:18 pm

Beijing will be our new Capital. Well done PNM.

Tax payers will have to repay China for PNM mess

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby toyolink » June 7th, 2019, 6:14 pm

My country today requires me to learn to use chop sticks as well as speak Chinese and Spanish.
Oh well …...I already cant understands the lyrics being played on the airwaves.

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby zoom rader » June 7th, 2019, 6:50 pm

toyolink wrote:My country today requires me to learn to use chop sticks as well as speak Chinese and Spanish.
Oh well …...I already cant understands the lyrics being played on the airwaves.
Well this is the goverment that stupid trinis voted for.

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby sMASH » June 7th, 2019, 7:06 pm

our debt stands at; we will be keeping the pitchlake, pleasure doing business with u.

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby The_Honourable » August 6th, 2019, 10:52 pm

^^^ cough cough

TT’s debt to China may move from $2.2 to $8.4 BILLION

Image

On September 7 2018, Prime Minister Dr Keith Rowley agreed on a deal with Chi­na Har­bour En­gi­neer­ing Com­pa­ny Ltd to build a transhipment port and dry-docking facility at La Brea in south-west Trinidad. The project will cost $3.4 billion, China will have 30 per cent equity of the port and will work alongside locals to run the facility. China Harbour’s master plan says the finished port will have two dry docks and 15 births, built on around 200 hectares of claimed land.

Image
Rowley shakes hands with Chinese Ambassador to Trinidad and Tobago Song Yumin on Sep 07 2018 after signing an agreement for the La Brea port.

This is not a new project of the PNM government. The deal was first agreed on in 2014 under the UNC-lead Peoples Partnership, when the then Trade Min­is­ter, Vas­ant Bharath, signed two agreements for two Chinese companies to develop a La Brea port, dry-docking facilities and seven industrial parks throughout Trinidad. The 2014 agreement said that $5.1 billion would be accessed from the Export-Import (EXIM) Bank of China, $3.4 billion for the port and dry dock and the remainder for the parks.

It isn’t exactly known whether or not the seven industrial parks will still be built. Currently, government seems focused on the construction of the drydock and port valued at $3.4 billion, the same figure set aside for the port by the previous administration.

Bharath was asked by 868 Media as to whether or not the current government is bound by the original 2014 agreement to build the seven parks, but he gave no answer.

Why should questions be asked?

The port to be built, financed and partly owned by China is not unique to TT. Chinese port developments across the globe continue to grow as a part of the Belt and Road Initiative, which China will use to expand its markets in the Western hemisphere. According to China’s ministry of transport, Chinese companies have invested in 42 ports in 34 countries. Others put the number of ports closer to 70.

In many of those countries, China financed ports and once the borrowing nations failed to pay the lenders, Chinese shipping companies took hold of majority equity of the ports, this has come to be known as the Chinese debt trap. In most cases, Chinese companies take equity on a 100-year lease basis.

It should also be noted that it is also unknown if in the La Brea port agreements a deal was made as to what would happen if TT fails to pay China back within a certain time frame.

Chinese debt traps in effect

When China takes majority equity in ports it normally happens through one of two state-owned Chinese companies: China Ocean Shipping Company (COSCO) and China Merchants Port Holdings Company Ltd (CM Ports).

Image

After the initial 2014 announcement of the La Brea port deal the Official Journal of the Caribbean Maritime Association published various concerns about the potential port on their website. One main concern mentioned was that the development “could affect the growth and potential of the nation’s existing ports” by diverting existing shipping traffic to the new port.

The concern that the La Brea port could slow down the growth of existing ports takes on a new dimension when one considers that it may eventually be operated entirely by the Chinese for their own profits as has happened in other regions.

Despite the apparent risk and evidence, developing CARICOM nations continue to accept loads of Chinese investments.

The state-owned firm building the La Brea port is preparing to build a similar port in Jamaica and it recently built a highway there valued at US$730 million, the company was also given land alongside the highway which they will use to develop residential and commercial buildings.

The Chinese government gifted a new national stadium to the Bahamas and has since invested nearly US$3 billion through EXIM Bank of China to put up the Baha Mar Resort.

In 2016 the then St Lucian prime minister Allen Chastanet was forced under public pressure to defend multi-billion-dollar deals with the Chinese government.

TT’s debt to China may take a $6 Billion leap

TT’s dept to China jumped an extra $4 billion with the addition of the La Brea port deal. Prior to the 2019 budget, debt to China was $2.2 billion, that figure will sit at $6.2 billion with the port’s construction. If the $1.7 billion which is due to go toward the seven industrial parks is also added, TT’s debt to China would jump a whopping $5.1 billion meaning TT would be $7.3 billion in debt to China. Another addition would still be necessary since in February 2019 it was announced that Chinese state-owned firm Shanghai Construction would be building a new hospital block for the Port of Spain general hospital valued at $1.1 billion. Another Chinese firm, China Railway will be making upgrades to the St James general hospital valued at $53 million. This puts TT debt to China at an estimated $8.4 billion.

TT’s economy ready for all that debt?

The state of TT’s economy is currently largely up for debate, UNCs are emphasising its weakness and PNMs stressing its strength, it is hard to decipher the truth. Yet, the fact that the main driver of TT’s economy, oil and gas, is in an unstable state and that the reserves are steadily decreasing rapidly cannot be ignored.

TT has already been warned by various experts about accepting Chinese loans, especially since they are using taxpayers money to pay them back. The taxpayers also have little to know information about the details of these said loans.

Source: https://868media.com/2019/08/06/unc-pnm ... -to-china/

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby antlind » August 6th, 2019, 11:08 pm

We will soon have to rename the island Chinidad.

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby MaxPower » August 6th, 2019, 11:23 pm

The_Honourable wrote:The taxpayers also have little to know information about the details of these said loans.


Nor will they know information about the upcoming loans.

But hey, Trinis are bobolees and they WILL zip it and pay it hahahahah

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby Ben_spanna » August 7th, 2019, 7:12 am

Chinese company registered locally thats also partly owned by the govt of China is currently still owing local companies and refusing to pay.

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby vaiostation » August 7th, 2019, 7:42 am

Them Venezuelans will have to work to pay off that debt...

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby Slartibartfast » August 7th, 2019, 8:50 am

What the fvck!!!!

So increased national spending can be used to help a country out of a recession. It was done in the US with the construction of all the interstates, but it only worked because the projects were used to employ local labour as a way to get money into the hands of the working class. What we have here is the absolute worst move that we can do.

First of all, we are taking a loan from China to pay a chinese firm to carry out the project. I have worked with chinese contractors on large projects and I'm sure it is common knowledge that chinese people only hire chinese people. Racial discrimination does not apply to their hiring process in Trinidad.

So China gets paid twice. We are letting China pay money to themselves and then giving them the interest on it out of our pocket. Does this make any sense? The amount of local labour to be used should be maximised at all costs. So we have people begging for work and we just giving money away for a project that not going to benefit the majority of people in the country? Oh, and it going to be partially operated by chinese as well. That means that it will mostly be low paying positions for locals. I don't see China building a facility for locals to run with Chinese working for them so only the opposite can be true.

This is why crime so high. Who going to care about working hard to succeed when they see sh!t like this? This project if used properly could have lifted LaBrea out of poverty. Instead they use it to just show the world how little they actually care about the people there.

IDK what else to say besides this sh!t just sickening. I feel I might make my first protest with this one.

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby MaxPower » August 7th, 2019, 10:18 am

Slartibartfast wrote:So we have people begging for work and we just giving money away for a project that not going to benefit the majority of people in the country?


Very good points,

But you meant to say people (Locals) begging for the salary?

Cant be to work.

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby Zim » August 7th, 2019, 10:39 am

SELL D BLASTED ISLAND!!! FUUUUU*KKKKKKK

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby zoom rader » August 7th, 2019, 10:51 am

Slartibartfast wrote:What the fvck!!!!

So increased national spending can be used to help a country out of a recession. It was done in the US with the construction of all the interstates, but it only worked because the projects were used to employ local labour as a way to get money into the hands of the working class. What we have here is the absolute worst move that we can do.

First of all, we are taking a loan from China to pay a chinese firm to carry out the project. I have worked with chinese contractors on large projects and I'm sure it is common knowledge that chinese people only hire chinese people. Racial discrimination does not apply to their hiring process in Trinidad.

So China gets paid twice. We are letting China pay money to themselves and then giving them the interest on it out of our pocket. Does this make any sense? The amount of local labour to be used should be maximised at all costs. So we have people begging for work and we just giving money away for a project that not going to benefit the majority of people in the country? Oh, and it going to be partially operated by chinese as well. That means that it will mostly be low paying positions for locals. I don't see China building a facility for locals to run with Chinese working for them so only the opposite can be true.

This is why crime so high. Who going to care about working hard to succeed when they see sh!t like this? This project if used properly could have lifted LaBrea out of poverty. Instead they use it to just show the world how little they actually care about the people there.

IDK what else to say besides this sh!t just sickening. I feel I might make my first protest with this one.
One clown on here by the name Randy says he blames kamala for bringing Chinese here and putting us in debt.

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby Slartibartfast » August 7th, 2019, 11:19 am

MaxPower wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:So we have people begging for work and we just giving money away for a project that not going to benefit the majority of people in the country?


Very good points,

But you meant to say people (Locals) begging for the salary?

Cant be to work.

I've been working in construction my entire adult life. I've been involved with everybody from ministers to labourers. We have all the local talent, expertise and will to take on any job down here. With how dry the job market is now you could get an overqualified person to fill any position in any construction company. Don't like their attitude, pull from any of the other hundred job applicants that you will get

At this point (in the construction industry at least) if you have a problem with lazy workers or crappy labour then you have a problem with your hiring process. I'm talking from 10 years experience, we have everything down here and the chinese are hands down the worst to work with. They work hard and fast but take no pride in their work and try to scam you at every opportunity. It is in their culture.

If you think trinis lazy you should look at yourself and your surroundings first cuz I've consistently had the opposite experience over the past decade.

Oh and funny enough, millenials are always among the most over qualified, underpaid and hardest working (before you jump on another bullsh!t meme train)

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby Ben_spanna » August 7th, 2019, 12:19 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:What the fvck!!!!

So increased national spending can be used to help a country out of a recession. It was done in the US with the construction of all the interstates, but it only worked because the projects were used to employ local labour as a way to get money into the hands of the working class. What we have here is the absolute worst move that we can do.

First of all, we are taking a loan from China to pay a chinese firm to carry out the project. I have worked with chinese contractors on large projects and I'm sure it is common knowledge that chinese people only hire chinese people. Racial discrimination does not apply to their hiring process in Trinidad.

So China gets paid twice. We are letting China pay money to themselves and then giving them the interest on it out of our pocket. Does this make any sense? The amount of local labour to be used should be maximised at all costs. So we have people begging for work and we just giving money away for a project that not going to benefit the majority of people in the country? Oh, and it going to be partially operated by chinese as well. That means that it will mostly be low paying positions for locals. I don't see China building a facility for locals to run with Chinese working for them so only the opposite can be true.

This is why crime so high. Who going to care about working hard to succeed when they see sh!t like this? This project if used properly could have lifted LaBrea out of poverty. Instead they use it to just show the world how little they actually care about the people there.

IDK what else to say besides this sh!t just sickening. I feel I might make my first protest with this one.


But you wont protest about government paying out MILLIONS of dollars over the past few years to a member of parliment's family for Rental of an Empty Building?

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby Slartibartfast » August 7th, 2019, 12:42 pm

Ben_spanna wrote:But you wont protest about government paying out MILLIONS of dollars over the past few years to a member of parliment's family for Rental of an Empty Building?


Correct. I'm a busy guy working monday to saturday with unpaid overtime and trying to do other things on the side. So, sadly, I have to carefully pick my battles. This one is a future issue for billions of dollars that going to directly affect thousands of people for a lifetime along with the potential to affect our economy (which also impacts everyone else).

If your argument is that we need to be doing more then I am in full agreement with you.

I wish I had time to protest against 25 billion tax payers dollars being given to Lawrence Duprey for CLICO as well. Or what about the NOVO contract for the airport kiosks?

But just cuz I'm trini doesn't mean I'm Trinidad. Other people like you should go and pick up the protests I can't make it to. I have a dream..... of a country where we all do our part, big and small, to move forward in the right direction... but it's just a dream.

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby oliverqueen » August 9th, 2019, 2:26 pm

china will rule the world in the next 3 decades?

when will trinidad go bankrupt after all these "deficit budgets"?

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby abbow » August 9th, 2019, 2:33 pm

2nd, 3rd and 4th slide making the point

https://www.msn.com/en-xl/northamerica/ ... Ms#image=2

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby death365 » August 11th, 2019, 10:43 am

I see nothing wrong with China using T&T to gain more control over the Caribbean. We are the major powerhouse of the Caribbean.

Then we use the yuan as we currency. Send all we gas an oil to China .

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby matix » August 11th, 2019, 12:39 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:
MaxPower wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:So we have people begging for work and we just giving money away for a project that not going to benefit the majority of people in the country?


Very good points,

But you meant to say people (Locals) begging for the salary?

Cant be to work.

I've been working in construction my entire adult life. I've been involved with everybody from ministers to labourers. We have all the local talent, expertise and will to take on any job down here. With how dry the job market is now you could get an overqualified person to fill any position in any construction company. Don't like their attitude, pull from any of the other hundred job applicants that you will get

At this point (in the construction industry at least) if you have a problem with lazy workers or crappy labour then you have a problem with your hiring process. I'm talking from 10 years experience, we have everything down here and the chinese are hands down the worst to work with. They work hard and fast but take no pride in their work and try to scam you at every opportunity. It is in their culture.

If you think trinis lazy you should look at yourself and your surroundings first cuz I've consistently had the opposite experience over the past decade.

Oh and funny enough, millenials are always among the most over qualified, underpaid and hardest working (before you jump on another bullsh!t meme train)





I like the way you think.

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby The_Honourable » October 15th, 2019, 10:29 pm

In this video, 868 Media Journalist James Lanser examines TT's growing dependency on China.


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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby The_Honourable » November 15th, 2019, 10:35 am

Govt, China sign loan for US$104m

Image

Chinese ambassador Song Yumin and Minister of Foreign and Caricom Affairs Dennis Moses have signed a framework agreement for a concessional loan between the governments for the development of Phoenix Park Industrial Estate.

The agreement was signed yesterday at the ministry at the International Waterfront Complex.

Trade Minister Paula Gopee-Scoon gave the value of the loan as USD104 million.

On the time frame for repayment, interest rate, and terms and conditions of the loan, Gopee-Scoon said: “That is still amateur for the Ministry of Finance in their negotiations with the China Exim Bank.”

She added: “It’s a concessional loan, so I’m sure it’s at a very low interest rate, but it is a matter for the Ministry of Finance in their negotiations.”

She said at least 1,000 people will be employed in the construction stage, and when the entire park is filled, some 5,000 people will get jobs there.

“There are already interested parties from China, TT, and we do have an anchor tenant from Latin America,” said Gopee-Scoon. “We have completed our prospectus and InvesTT, (an arm of her ministry) will be going to China to meet with Beijing Construction Engineering Group (BCEG) and our mission in China, where they will further market the park.”

This visit takes place in the third week in November.

Moses commended the Chinese for their continued assistance and support for TT’s development goals. He said: “To date, over 65 agreements have been concluded between our nations, and is a testament to our long-standing friendly relations.”

Moses added all such agreements signed in the past represented significant milestones, such as those for the National Academy for the Performing Arts, north and south, the national sporting facilities, the Couva Hospital and the acquisition of the multi-purpose patrol vessel used by the Coast Guard.

In the case of the industrial park, he said several tenants from central America have already been identified to start business operation in air-conditioning, automotive, heavy machinery, building transmutation and furniture.

He said, “This type of project truly embodies the spirit of the Belt and Road.” The Belt and Road a global development strategy followed by the Chinese government.

Yumin said the occasion was another highlight moment in economic co-operation between the two countries, and there will be many more projects to come, geared towards economic diversity and economic transformation in TT.

He said since the Prime Minister’s visit to China last year, relations have taken on a new level, and thanked the PM for his care and attention to co-operation between the two countries.

Minister of Finance Colm Imbert said of the project: “We always talk of diversification. This is diversification in its purest sense, and I think it will be a huge success that will generate exports and much-needed foreign exchange for TT.”

Source: https://newsday.co.tt/2019/11/14/govt-c ... for-us104m

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby Dizzy28 » November 15th, 2019, 10:42 am

China giveth and China taketh!!!!

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby vaiostation » November 15th, 2019, 1:07 pm

I feel sorry for the future generations who will have to pay back these loans, even though the country might be bankrupt by then.

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby zoom rader » November 15th, 2019, 1:53 pm

County for sale under PNM

Oh well back to he planation for PNM ppl

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby Ben_spanna » November 15th, 2019, 2:25 pm

zoom rader wrote:County for sale under PNM

Oh well back to he planation for PNM ppl


YEs we should start by throwing chains and shackles on every inmate in our prison system, stop letting them sit in there and relaxing and calling shots, chain them up and put them in the hot to do manual labor to pay for their stay in prison, and yes WHIP them MC when they playing they dont want to work.

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby antlind » November 15th, 2019, 3:01 pm

Republic of Trinidad and Tobago (owned by China)

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby timothymcdavid » November 15th, 2019, 3:27 pm

My initial thought was hearing of the refinery deal with Patriotic/OWTU was this was the most likely source of funds.

Debt isnt necessarily a bad thing ... once it is used constructively ... the problem with these Chinese loans for other countries is often these funds are used on projects that didnt pass muster for the more traditional loan agencies for good reason.

Hence the reason for alot of these projects going bust.

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Re: T&T's debt to China stands at...

Postby 88sins » November 15th, 2019, 3:39 pm

Most ppl don't realize, this plan has been initiated from the moment Patos made that deal to build NAPA, & it will go forward no matter who protests or whether or not T&T can service this new debt

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