Whats your thoughts on Mr Rowley regarding his performance as PM vs Mrs Persad-Bissessar's performance

[zoom rader]

Multiple articles have quoted KPB indicated more than that number were detained.

Please show these articles so that the rest of tuners will have faith in you

[rspann]

I always hearing about 5000 detainees but .......


SoE FACTS
According to the T&T Police Service, the SoE resulted in 463 gang-related arrests. Some 1,405 people were held on outstanding warrants, 484 people arrested for breaching the curfew, 833 for other offences, and 1,024 for narcotics.
The police said they found 12,739 rounds of ammunition, 34 magazines and 154 firearms.
Several men were also detained in an alleged plot to assassinate the Prime Minister and several Cabinet ministers, but no one was ever charged.


These arrests do not appear to be an infringement of rights . It was just the police doing their job ,which was made easier by the criminals not being able to run as they normally do.
The outstanding warrants , breaching the curfew , and the narcotics arrests are normal police work. The ones who complain about the curfew , and talk about how many black hen chicken they lock up ,can only really argue about the ones who were locked up under the gang act. Then again , the police know who are gang members, so was it really an unjust exercise in most of the cases?

[Redman]

Multiple articles have quoted KPB indicated more than that number were detained.

Please show these articles so that the rest of tuners will have faith in you

Sure
http://www.wiredja.com/news/justice/tri ... -emergency

n late 2011, Persad Bissessar told the nation that she was not surprised that the authorities had uncovered the plot to assassinate her and members of her cabinet since the introduction of the SOE had forced the criminal elements to seek reprisals.

“…I did anticipate their extreme displeasure,” she said, noting that nearly 7, 300 people had been detained with 463 arrested on gang related activities under the SOE.

https://www.state.gov/documents/organization/186756.pdf

During the state of emergency, the government had broad powers to use military units in law enforcement, enter homes without a warrant, ban public demonstrations and strikes, and detain persons without charge.
Authorities arrested and detained more than 7,000 persons during the state of emergency, some
without charges, and eventually released hundreds of persons for lack of evidence.
The state of emergency expired on December 4

I always hearing about 5000 detainees but .......

So have I...there are disparate accounts of the total number and depending on who you talk to, inside those numbers are very different proportions to what is in the press.

[rspann]

I rather believe the Police statistics than some Jamaican report, knowing how they like to make Trinidad look worse than them. As for what Kamla said, I would take that with a pinch of salt. If you subtract the legitimate arrests. ie. for warrants 1405 , narcotics 1024, other 833 and curfew 484 you get a different picture.

[Redman]

And thats the point ....expanded powers will be abused...

Detained is detained.

Didnt the JA report use the same numbers as the guardian report you linked ?
Multiple links quoted the PM the same way.

Hard numbers in local press are 4000+ with the state dept link using the 7000.

but hey if calling an SOE and arresting 500+ people without process is cool in your books...ok..

the fundamental point remains that the SOE was an abuse of process, like so many of the issues that we saw crop up

[zoom rader]

Multiple articles have quoted KPB indicated more than that number were detained.

Please show these articles so that the rest of tuners will have faith in you

Sure
http://www.wiredja.com/news/justice/tri ... -emergency

n late 2011, Persad Bissessar told the nation that she was not surprised that the authorities had uncovered the plot to assassinate her and members of her cabinet since the introduction of the SOE had forced the criminal elements to seek reprisals.

“…I did anticipate their extreme displeasure,” she said, noting that nearly 7, 300 people had been detained with 463 arrested on gang related activities under the SOE.

https://www.state.gov/documents/organization/186756.pdf

During the state of emergency, the government had broad powers to use military units in law enforcement, enter homes without a warrant, ban public demonstrations and strikes, and detain persons without charge.
Authorities arrested and detained more than 7,000 persons during the state of emergency, some
without charges, and eventually released hundreds of persons for lack of evidence.
The state of emergency expired on December 4

I always hearing about 5000 detainees but .......

So have I...there are disparate accounts of the total number and depending on who you talk to, inside those numbers are very different proportions to what is in the press.

Those are from the Police reports some PNM fabrication media?

[zoom rader]

And thats the point ....expanded powers will be abused...

Detained is detained.

Didnt the JA report use the same numbers as the guardian report you linked ?
Multiple links quoted the PM the same way.

Hard numbers in local press are 4000+ with the state dept link using the 7000.

but hey if calling an SOE and arresting 500+ people without process is cool in your books...ok..

the fundamental point remains that the SOE was an abuse of process, like so many of the issues that we saw crop up

Your points mean nothing if you bring fabricated reports.

[Redman]

And thats the point ....expanded powers will be abused...

Detained is detained.

Didnt the JA report use the same numbers as the guardian report you linked ?
Multiple links quoted the PM the same way.

Hard numbers in local press are 4000+ with the state dept link using the 7000.

but hey if calling an SOE and arresting 500+ people without process is cool in your books...ok..

the fundamental point remains that the SOE was an abuse of process, like so many of the issues that we saw crop up

Your points mean nothing if you bring fabricated reports.

Your position is clear boss.

When you show the moon to a child, it sees only your finger. — Zambian proverb

[mero]

Who or what is JUHN? I does be kinda loss in these political cheds

[Dizzy28]

Who or what is JUHN? I does be kinda loss in these political cheds

Some derogatory nickname I believe

[eliteauto]

Who or what is JUHN? I does be kinda loss in these political cheds

Jumped Up House Negro according to De Dragon

[- Rovin's car audio -]

both is 2 waste of time & d population trying to justify dat 1 actually better than d other .....

[Redman]

Who or what is JUHN? I does be kinda loss in these political cheds

Jumped Up House Negro according to De Dragon

His home grown term of endearment for Keith Rowley.
Very personal choice of term to use.
Must be deeply ingrained given the frequency of use.

[rspann]

And thats the point ....expanded powers will be abused...

Detained is detained.

Didnt the JA report use the same numbers as the guardian report you linked ?
Multiple links quoted the PM the same way.

Hard numbers in local press are 4000+ with the state dept link using the 7000.

but hey if calling an SOE and arresting 500+ people without process is cool in your books...ok..

the fundamental point remains that the SOE was an abuse of process, like so many of the issues that we saw crop up

When you say they were arrested without due process, what do you mean? What did they omit in the arrests ? Who really abused their power? The Gov't or the Police? I just trying to get your real perspective. Because in my mind , it was the police who did all the arresting after the Gov't instituted the SOE.

[Redman]

Yep.

Who .....during and after SOE, took the political credit for the 'reduction' in crime?

So in the context of this thread....who should have the political responsibility for the abuses that occurred during the SOE?

We could get into whether the TTPS were being instructed by political directorate.
But that's ole talk, and speculative.

TTDF...
Well we have Kenrick Maharaj and soldiers on site to remove Kublalsingh .....under Jacks control.

You decide.

[rspann]

The Gov't of the day just tried to get pips. They put the SOE, take credits for the drop in crime for that space of time ,and didn't realise that when you take the ranks, the criticism for the fallout would come later.

[RedVEVO]

^^^
Need to find out what all those SOE people who get lock up are doing ..

Chances are still involved in gangs & crime .. and mayhem

[Redman]

The Gov't of the day just tried to get pips. They put the SOE, take credits for the drop in crime for that space of time ,and didn't realise that when you take the ranks, the criticism for the fallout would come later.

I was in support hoping that they picking up people for evidence based cause....and while in custody would use the opportunity to establish ....fingerprint,picture,DNA swabs to establish a database....
Now we can collect evidence from a crime scene and have something to work with....

So we now can say to these 4-7000 people...if we find your DNA etc on a scene ....we know where to look.

That didn't happen...nothing did.

But the guys involved in the 'plot' to kill KPB get off.
The 500 picked up on gang related ....they walk...Burke sued and won.

If they couldn't make any serious charge stick...upon basis was the SOE actually initiated?

So the SOE benefit was the guys the picked up with outstanding matters.

Judged on the results...was this worth it?

[rspann]

It wasn't worth it in the long run . Too much inconvenience for the innocent law abiding citizens. If the police do their work in the right way they could achieve maximum results without the inconvenience of the SOE. At the time the gov't probably thought they had no other option because things were really getting out of hand.

[Redman]

So...that have anything to do with SAUTT,SSA and what ever units were killed???

Not filling the gaps left by the summary execution of those units.....contributed to 'things getting out of hand'

But really boss, you initiate an SOE and have not been able to make ONE CHARGE STICK??
With Senior Council Silk at its historic high in Cabinet??
With the dream teams that up in the court arse like ticks on crack?
And you eh CONVICT ONE person that was held for the exact emergency that you shut the country down for?????

-During 2012(?) 200,000+ conversations listened to by intelligence services....not ONE WARRANT requested,granted or denied.
This was laid in parliament....not ONE UNC member denied in or out of Parliament.

Radar shut down

Equipment stockpiled and left to rot.

but MASSIVE drug seizures made internationally..that originated in TnT.

The SOE was worth it.
Not to us ,but to somebody.

[rspann]

Two years pass and nothing change. How come they didn't set back up all that was "dismantled" ? Why the radars still not working ? How come drugs still passing? How come all the murders ? All the crime ? The gangs and their leaders still roaming , why nothing is being done? Drugs money found that originated from the PM's close associate. Nothing has changed really.

[Redman]

Good question.
Gee maybe the system needs to change?
Maybe political control is too important to leave to the politicians.

[Dizzy28]

Men love to big up Sautt..... What was its successes though??

[zoom rader]

Good question.
Gee maybe the system needs to change?
Maybe political control is too important to leave to the politicians.

Back peddle

Everyone knows it's the PNM to change

[De Dragon]

Who or what is JUHN? I does be kinda loss in these political cheds

Jumped Up House Negro according to De Dragon

His home grown term of endearment for Keith Rowley.
Very personal choice of term to use.
Must be deeply ingrained given the frequency of use.

Maybe you'd prefer, GOD, the term that you use for him? Personal? You're trying to pin that racist tag on me for quite a while, but you're merely blinded by JUHN's cancerous nut sack dangling in front of your eye to see the ruination that this imbecile has us headed for

[desifemlove]

Kamz - 3.5/10

- didn't change the economy
- crime WAS lower, but so what? UNCUNT (like the PENISNM) don't understand how stats does wuk. analysing crime stats is like how the economy/GDP does wuk. if there is a spike in GDP growth in successive quarters, and above the trend, then is it due to an oil price rise? more domestic consumption? a bumper carnival season? more tourists? it's the same wit crime. UNCUNT said crime was lower, which is fact, but now why. just chasing brownie points, but then she was a brownie but then didn't realise she had to graduate to Girl Guides. if she did, then she would have been taught by Akala how stats on sociological topics does wuk.

- infrastrcutre improved, but not to the degree needed. how come no new railways? how come UNCUNT talked about busways but nothing else done? Internet connectivity didn't change much either. and no "third" moible network too.

- Perception of corruption didn't change. i'd argue there were far more egregious scandals involving ministers, and she too. Gangagate, Anil, etc.

UNCUNT said we will rise, only thing rose was Suruj belly, nothing else.

but PENISNMs, i coming for you too...

Rowley - 3.5/10

- Recession

PENISNM cannot be blamed for the rcession. it started in 2014, and the UNC appointed Central Bank governor said so as soon as PENISNM came to office.

But then he's said what the issue is, but has provided no solution. which PM in any country does that? doesn't matter if it's an advanced economy or not, Obama said the solution to the US's issues in great recession was QE. It worked, somewhat. Same with the UK, Eurozone, and China. He's offered NO plan to get us out of this mess.

Actually, nothing more can be said. Rowley only saying "tighten yuh belt", since he saying nothing can be done without a good economy. but then he provided no way to fix/correct it.


The country needs a new constitution, new governance, and a new order. enough of PENISNM and UNCCUNTs. and firetruck allyuh of BOTh sides who beyotch. allyuh does vote on nappy hair vs. straight hair, or flat nose vs. thin nose. NEITHER of you have truly advanced the country in ways it should have been. Economically, socially, the country is still the same as it was in Chambers's time. Or Panday's. Or Manning's. How come India can progress, or Angola, or even Rwanda with genocides, and T&T cannot? Nigeria is far poorer than T&T, but is managing Boko Haram without US or Western help, and is progressing. It had a military dictatorship thirty years ago, and now it is changed, largely, for the better.

both UNCCUNT Mrs. K. P-B, and PENISPNM Dr. Rowley are mediocre PMs.

[Redman]

Who or what is JUHN? I does be kinda loss in these political cheds

Jumped Up House Negro according to De Dragon

His home grown term of endearment for Keith Rowley.
Very personal choice of term to use.
Must be deeply ingrained given the frequency of use.

Maybe you'd prefer, GOD, the term that you use for him? Personal? You're trying to pin that racist tag on me for quite a while, but you're merely blinded by JUHN's cancerous nut sack dangling in front of your eye to see the ruination that this imbecile has us headed for

Seem to be on YOUR mind ..you are the ONLY one bringing it into the conversation.

And you define yourself by your post.

[RedVEVO]

Rowley's Performance = 10

PNM People happy with Hail to the Tribal Chief Rowley

Chief have new Merc , new House, Vacations every 2 weeks , Travel expense , Medical abroad

PNM People have ?

8 pc Fried Chicken and 4 sides for $119

No watermelon

[10-01]

http://www.icdn.today/columns/police-ha ... -politics/

[De Dragon]

Two years pass and nothing change. How come they didn't set back up all that was "dismantled" ? Why the radars still not working ? How come drugs still passing? How come all the murders ? All the crime ? The gangs and their leaders still roaming , why nothing is being done? Drugs money found that originated from the PM's close associate. Nothing has changed really.

You taking on this idiot? He and eliteauto, RASC, and the rest of the PNM sheep clique cannot seem to answer why we should have kept a unit ILLEGALLY spying on citizens including JUHN himself, the President, Ato Boldon and other citizens of questionable character Nor ca they tell us why if this was the magic bullet for all our ills, how come it hasn't been revived in 2 years