On the subject of GATE

[DVSTT]

BY next month, students enrolled at university could have to pay a third of their fees while postgraduate students may have to pay their full fees.
And come next year, if tertiary institutions are not accredited by the Accreditation Council of Trini­dad and Tobago, funding will be stopped.
Those are some of the recommendations included in the report by the task force on the Government Assistance for Tuition Expenses (GATE) programme, which was handed over to Education Minister Anthony Garcia last week.
GATE, implemented under late prime minister Patrick Manning in 2004, funds free tertiary education in the country.

[mamoo_pagal]

is kamla fault, she thief out the tresury

[maj. tom]

Yeah seems fair.

but FMS not getting a different plan?
1/3 of MBBS/DDS/OPTM ($71,000 to $90,000/year) is way more than the entire of Engineering ($18,000/year).

$6000/year compared to $30,000/year in fees. Is that really the plan to make education affordable to qualified students who cannot afford it?

[JF.K]

Kamla: Don’t remove GATE

Published on Jul 14, 2016, 11:00 pm

“It would be a step backward if we took away GATE (Government Assistance for Tuition Expenses) or restricted it.”
Opposition Leader Kamla Persad-Bissessar commented yesterday during a question and answer segment with American motivational speaker Dawnna St Louis. The event was part of the Women In Leadership Conference hosted by the Arthur Lok Jack Graduate School of Business, at Hilton Trinidad, St Ann’s.

“The vision is for education, the opportunity for upliftment,” said Persad-Bissessar. “We opened the door for tech-vocational studies. I know Education Minister Anthony Garcia has the GATE report. I look forward to the report. Education is the passport out of poverty.”

On Tuesday, Garcia said students applying to tertiary institutions at the start of the new academic year in September, have been advised to continue doing what they need to do as they await Cabinet’s decision on the future of the GATE programme. The Minister said he would be submitting the 70-page report, which contained an executive summary, various analyses and recommendations, to Cabinet.

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/20160714 ... emove-gate

[Ronaldo95163]

Not beating up over this but it confuses me how this government prioritizes things.

They done budget 90 mil to fix Brian Lara stadium
Big spend on paintings when they get elected
Big money govt vehicle
Millions to fix red house
iirc there was some eric williams building dey wanted to build too.

But then wanna cut back on education?
Up to now schol money for schols awarded last year cya even pay yet.
PNM yes

[DVSTT]

Not beating up over this but it confuses me but this government prioritizes things.

They done budget 90 mil to fix Brian Lara stadium
Big spend on paintings when they get elected
Big money govt vehicle
Millions to fix red house
iirc there was some eric williams building dey wanted to build too.

But then wanna cut back on education?
Up to now schol money for schols awarded last year cya even pay yet.
PNM yes

Same thing I'm thinking.
And yes, FMS a lot more than other degrees..

[DVSTT]

Not beating up over this but it confuses me but this government prioritizes things.

They done budget 90 mil to fix Brian Lara stadium
Big spend on paintings when they get elected
Big money govt vehicle
Millions to fix red house
iirc there was some eric williams building dey wanted to build too.

But then wanna cut back on education?
Up to now schol money for schols awarded last year cya even pay yet.
PNM yes

Same thing I'm thinking.
And yes, FMS a lot more than other degrees..

[DVSTT]

Not beating up over this but it confuses me but this government prioritizes things.

They done budget 90 mil to fix Brian Lara stadium
Big spend on paintings when they get elected
Big money govt vehicle
Millions to fix red house
iirc there was some eric williams building dey wanted to build too.

But then wanna cut back on education?
Up to now schol money for schols awarded last year cya even pay yet.
PNM yes

Same thing I'm thinking.
And yes, FMS a lot more than other degrees..

[neexis]

Yeah seems fair.

but FMS not getting a different plan?
1/3 of MBBS/DDS/OPTM ($71,000 to $90,000/year) is way more than the entire of Engineering ($18,000/year).

$6000/year compared to $30,000/year in fees. Is that really the plan to make education affordable to qualified students who cannot afford it?

Maybe that's part of the plan to control class sizes. They are putting out more MBBS and DDS graduates than there are jobs for them locally.

[pugboy]

gate was bound to buss eventually
very hard to sustain this kind of freeness with no accountability
little or no qualifications required
fly by night schools giving all kind of degree and collecting money

next program to buss might be the $3k old age pension

[shake d livin wake d dead]

Look how a certain group of ppl gona drop out of degree and masters programs

[maj. tom]

Yeah seems fair.

but FMS not getting a different plan?
1/3 of MBBS/DDS/OPTM ($71,000 to $90,000/year) is way more than the entire of Engineering ($18,000/year).

$6000/year compared to $30,000/year in fees. Is that really the plan to make education affordable to qualified students who cannot afford it?

Maybe that's part of the plan to control class sizes. They are putting out more MBBS and DDS graduates than there are jobs for them locally.

What the government needs do with this problem is to make trade agreements with other Caribbean countries and export our medical professionals produced here with the same wage benefits and taxes and loan repayment plans. Trinidad should be exporting education to the entire region, especially medicine, dentistry and optometry.

[desifemlove]

Since most people who does get degree end up wuking OJT, or have no clue to do after dat.....

it's both PNM and UNC fault for not meking it strategic, or having a strategic tertiary education plan. Like UTT's mission is to "make entrepreneurs"...as most graduates doing dis..no!

Most UWI grads also jus going do OJT...four years stuyding geography or geology to wuk in government office..haha. this counry screwed on many levels.

[shake d livin wake d dead]

I agree that people should pay fees...my relatives paying fees in USD so who is others...also there would be greater control on the amt of ppl with degree cuz they end up suffering for wuk after.

[DVSTT]

I hope they don't cut funding for people already enrolled, then a lot of people will have to drop out.

[zoom rader]

I say remove Gate, we need more drain cleaners and men to mix concrete.

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

I say remove Gate, we need more drain cleaners and men to mix concrete.

Would you prefer your tax dollars fund more BSc degrees in Carnival?

The GATE program was abused big time. Everybody doing a degree and going to work OJT or work a job that only needs 5 O levels with many of these so called degrees being nothing more than glorified A levels even state schools like UTT taking part in this selling glorified trade certificates or glorified A levels as Degrees. This was one of the biggest mistakes ever made, it should have remained how Pandey had it, Dollar for Dollar this would have encouraged people to take serious consideration into researching what their investment in their degree is going to do for them. Instead we have people who sending their kids to do degrees just to say "my chile going university" and 80% of them dropping out in year 1 and tax dollars down the drain every year.

This is a good move on the government part got to give jack he jacket. I hope for this one time you can give the PNM their well deserved credit for this. We should be funding what we are lacking, not another 1 million and 1 business degree. We have more graduates than companies can employ now. We need to diversify, the oil and gas won't last forever.

[greggle71]

Too much fear mongering, these are the recommendations that will be considered by cabinet. No decision has been taken yet.

If yuh passing yuh exams and you genuinely have challenges to self fund your education then I'm pretty sure you'll be unaffected by any restructure of GATE

If yuh not in the above category then yuh wasting my tax money

[nervewrecker]

bring back dollar for dollar.

[buckredan]

Agree bring back dollar for dollar no accountability on the gate program

[sMASH]

I say remove Gate, we need more drain cleaners and men to mix concrete.

what i tell the young people over the years, go to school and get ur qualifications. it doesn't matter if u want to work on a garbage truck. get ur qualifications so that u can be able to get a good paying job. if when ur done and u dont like the big wuk, u can still work on a garbage truck, you would have all the options open to you and u can choose. but if u dont get ur subjects, your only option would be to work on a garbage truck, and when u want better you would not be able to.


said it before this elections, said it after, and saying it again: this pnm slate is the most incompetent that has come about.

they will save pennies by not educating the next generations, and spend it on the stadium which may bring in broadcast revenue, if they manage to get games played there, and if the games is what people want to see.


pnm's legacy: generations of uneducated youths.

"mammie, i want to be a doctor, or a vet"
"i know yuh bright, but we too poor to send u to learn dat. go an mix the flour for the doubles, and when u done, get the beads to make the carnival costume"

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

^ To be fair GATE isn't pennies eh, it is a HEAVY burden on tax payers who are paying $50,000 for in most cases glorified A levels and glorified trade certificates being marketed as a degree. And the young people get a fine education for free up to A levels, A levels is not easy it is easier now than before but it still isn't easy the vast majority of students in secondary school never reach A levels so I would say they are getting a damn fine education for free. What many are failing to realize is there are no jobs for our graduates with degrees now, I know people with masters degree who can't find employment and those that do struggle to make more than $6k a month. Right now things like trade has way more money than these degrees. We need to stop wasting tax dollars on this program, GATE devalues a degree.

A degree should be something of a rare commodity. The only degrees that need funding is things like Medical Degrees etc. Skills that we are lacking in this country, and doctors should be forced to work for the state for a minimum of 7 years if they choose to have their degree paid for by the state.

BUT when a degree is dollar for dollar, there is no such thing as exploiting the system it is infact the perfect system. You can't complain that nobody want to help you and at the same time tax payers can't complain that their money is going to waste. Completely remove GATE, bring back dollar for dollar and you will see how quickly all these fly by night degree programs will disappear. Why do we need to pay $50,000 for someone to do a Gender Study degree or a Degree in Peace Studies or a Degree in Carnival etc this is a slap in the face to tax payers.

[Ronaldo95163]

I heard they looking to interfere with CAPE scholarships as well...any truth to this???

Anyhooo if GATE was stricter we wouldn't have had this problem...the reason(well why I think atleast) any and everybody have a degree was because it was waaay to easy to obtain by not even scraping past courses.

It have people graduating in UWI with their GPA under 2...the old system to maintain GATE was a GPA >= 1
They raised to to 2 recently...should've been higher...I believe this batch of Year 3 students are the last batch on the old system.

Not sure how much secondary schools will be affected though...students might probably have to pay to sign up for CSEC/CAPE and for sure pay for a few textbooks. Schools need to make sure their book list coincide with their booklists...plenty of my books purchased were never used up to this day

[Yofoot]

GATE was set up from the get go to be taken advantage of, free for all.

All a student needs to do was go to tertiary institute, apply for course, fill out GATE form and then start said course, the institute will then send forms to MOE for payment. its as if approval is automatic with no effort from student what so ever. There is no class size cap AFAIK. So it was a matter of getting as much students into courses which equals more money for institute.

Free tertiary education is actually a great idea but was never implemented properly. They should've tried to fixed the implementation in a different way before jumping directly to students has to pay.

Just my idea of what can work:
1) Cap class sizes on all accredited courses
2) Student applies to accredited institute and is approved based on qualifications (class sizes is capped so no free for all)
3) STUDENT takes acceptance letter to MOE themselves
4) MOE reviews acceptance and verifies with institute then provides funds to institute directly, with student getting a receipt
5) Student needs to do this EVERY semester and also has to keep up grade average.

This way, although the student is not paying, they are still expected to put in work and be responsible for getting the funding. It is not automatic.

This will of course mean more work for the MOE and will most lightly cause a rush around application time but the motivated will see it through.

Just an idea.

[Ronaldo95163]

The capped class sizes is a good idea...entry qualifications should be higher as well.
It too late tho...PNM doh listen to nobody...

[De Dragon]

^ To be fair GATE isn't pennies eh, it is a HEAVY burden on tax payers who are paying $50,000 for in most cases glorified A levels and glorified trade certificates being marketed as a degree. And the young people get a fine education for free up to A levels, A levels is not easy it is easier now than before but it still isn't easy the vast majority of students in secondary school never reach A levels so I would say they are getting a damn fine education for free. What many are failing to realize is there are no jobs for our graduates with degrees now, I know people with masters degree who can't find employment and those that do struggle to make more than $6k a month. Right now things like trade has way more money than these degrees. We need to stop wasting tax dollars on this program, GATE devalues a degree.

A degree should be something of a rare commodity. The only degrees that need funding is things like Medical Degrees etc. Skills that we are lacking in this country, and doctors should be forced to work for the state for a minimum of 7 years if they choose to have their degree paid for by the state.

BUT when a degree is dollar for dollar, there is no such thing as exploiting the system it is infact the perfect system. You can't complain that nobody want to help you and at the same time tax payers can't complain that their money is going to waste. Completely remove GATE, bring back dollar for dollar and you will see how quickly all these fly by night degree programs will disappear. Why do we need to pay $50,000 for someone to do a Gender Study degree or a Degree in Peace Studies or a Degree in Carnival etc this is a slap in the face to tax payers.

Lack of opportunities for a degree holder should not be a reason for making senseless changes. I agree with some of the changes but why not try to create opportunities for the degree holders? A degree should never be an exclusive thing for people of means only for they have proven to not be able to generally see past their own noses and partially to blame for our current sorry pass.

[sMASH]

so u really saying, dont educate and qualify yourself because it would be hard to monetize it later? thats just backward.

but cleaning up the system to make it less free for all, is how it should have been in the first place. making the potential student work for what they get, will help cut down on who is doing it just because they can, and keep who really want.

what yofoot has presented are reasonable, for the most part. and i would really like to the government to evaluate the institutions, courses, and the curriculum to ensure they are worth attaining... i went sams for a time, and that was a waste of money, time and effort.

[desifemlove]

GATE was set up from the get go to be taken advantage of, free for all.

All a student needs to do was go to tertiary institute, apply for course, fill out GATE form and then start said course, the institute will then send forms to MOE for payment. its as if approval is automatic with no effort from student what so ever. There is no class size cap AFAIK. So it was a matter of getting as much students into courses which equals more money for institute.

Free tertiary education is actually a great idea but was never implemented properly. They should've tried to fixed the implementation in a different way before jumping directly to students has to pay.

Just my idea of what can work:
1) Cap class sizes on all accredited courses
2) Student applies to accredited institute and is approved based on qualifications (class sizes is capped so no free for all)
3) STUDENT takes acceptance letter to MOE themselves
4) MOE reviews acceptance and verifies with institute then provides funds to institute directly, with student getting a receipt
5) Student needs to do this EVERY semester and also has to keep up grade average.

This way, although the student is not paying, they are still expected to put in work and be responsible for getting the funding. It is not automatic.

This will of course mean more work for the MOE and will most lightly cause a rush around application time but the motivated will see it through.

Just an idea.

There is a percentage of checks to keep up to make GATE. you have to attend a given number of classes to maintain it, and if there are reset tests to do, you not entitled to full fee.

[death365]

1stly they need to adequately staff the gate programme . It's grossly understaffed need more auditors an investigation officers.

Then they need to look at all the "schools" an determine if they meet all criteria for Gate

Then look at delinquent students ... under performance.

But no ... that can't happen in sweet TNT ..

JUST ATTACT the students ... cut funding ... we so 1×1 in this country

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

so u really saying, dont educate and qualify yourself because it would be hard to monetize it later? thats just backward.

but cleaning up the system to make it less free for all, is how it should have been in the first place. making the potential student work for what they get, will help cut down on who is doing it just because they can, and keep who really want.

what yofoot has presented are reasonable, for the most part. and i would really like to the government to evaluate the institutions, courses, and the curriculum to ensure they are worth attaining... i went sams for a time, and that was a waste of money, time and effort.

Yes I agree with you 100% on the point of sam, I also went sam many years ago and it turned out to be a terrible waste of time, money and effort, the administration there is so bad you won't believe it. Turns out CTS was a far far superior option. And not only that but Tuition in CTS for final year is only $10K which is $5k less than what SAM charges and you get a real degree at CTS one in computer science. Not the "Business Computing" in sam which is a glorified business degree they try to call an IT degree.

Anyways they really need to crack down on schools who take in people to do a degree without proper entry requirements. Too many schools taking men with 1 and 2 cxc to do a Degree. And either the student drops out after first year because they can't cope with the coursework or they get a degree worth nothing, accredited by nobody except ACTT which nobody even respects. The amount of fly by night schools got accredited by the ACTT for bogus degrees speaks a lot about our ACTT.