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T&TEC, WASA increase coming in 2016... now 2023?

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Re: T&TEC, WASA increase coming in 2016

Postby bluefete » October 17th, 2020, 8:12 pm

Wait. Imbert doh have a swimming pool?

He only paying $75.00 a month in WASA rates?

According to Zoom: Take b..l.

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Re: T&TEC, WASA increase coming in 2016

Postby redmanjp » October 17th, 2020, 8:18 pm

imagine u have a pool and u now have to pay per usage with a meter installed -that go be somn like $10-20000 :shock:

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Re: T&TEC, WASA increase coming in 2016

Postby bluefete » October 17th, 2020, 8:24 pm

redmanjp wrote:imagine u have a pool and u now have to pay per usage with a meter installed -that go be somn like $10-20000 :shock:


Not for Imbert and dem. Their accountants would write that off or imbert would do a budget and include it as a tax write off for himself (as he did this year for property).

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Re: T&TEC, WASA increase coming in 2016

Postby matr1x » October 17th, 2020, 8:35 pm

there are some that the meter would not even be running. Or the figures get ignored. Easy to do on their servers

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Re: T&TEC, WASA increase coming in 2016... now 2021?

Postby Les Bain » October 17th, 2020, 9:06 pm

Well Colm inadvertently outline the problem there.
I paying close to $400.00 for water on a 3 day per week schedule, and that is with a water backup system and no pool.

PNM could SMD.

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Re: T&TEC, WASA increase coming in 2016... now 2021?

Postby agent007 » October 17th, 2020, 10:36 pm

Why make customers pay for inefficient management? We all get it, it’s a business after all, the aim is for revenue to exceed expenditure. So instead of making us pay for poor management practices, why not cut the fat and the inefficiency? The choice is clear, either they restructure the company and not keep the status quo or finance theIr corruption, nepotism and wastage by increasing rates. Seems like the latter was chosen.

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Re: T&TEC, WASA increase coming in 2016... now 2021?

Postby 88sins » October 18th, 2020, 12:07 am

Before a realistic water rate, we hadda find the way to have a frickin realistic water supply. No sense paying more for the same barely there supply of your rda of mud silt rust sludge and who knows what else, that you need multiple tanks on multiple filters to collect as much as you can cuz you not sure when next it coming.

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Re: T&TEC, WASA increase coming in 2016... now 2021?

Postby Redman » October 18th, 2020, 7:47 am

The supply is as a result of a dated infrastructure.

How do you justify a multi 100m if not billion dollar injection if the base case is a continuation of the ultra low revenue?

At the same time per capita use is higher than most jurisdictions.

So we using too much, paying too little and still feel entitled.

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Re: T&TEC, WASA increase coming in 2016... now 2021?

Postby jhonnieblue » October 18th, 2020, 9:36 am

This is a stupid statement. How can you say highest usage if over 50% of water is lost during transmission.
You can't blame the population for that as that's directly the responsibility of the authority.
That's like defending someone for doing a crappy job but wanting to give them a raise anyway.
I pay close to 400 and get water once every 9 days if I'm lucky.
Redman wrote:The supply is as a result of a dated infrastructure.

How do you justify a multi 100m if not billion dollar injection if the base case is a continuation of the ultra low revenue?

At the same time per capita use is higher than most jurisdictions.

So we using too much, paying too little and still feel entitled.

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Re: T&TEC, WASA increase coming in 2016... now 2021?

Postby Redman » October 18th, 2020, 9:41 am

jhonnieblue wrote:This is a stupid statement. How can you say highest usage if over 50% of water is lost during transmission.
You can't blame the population for that as that's directly the responsibility of the authority.
That's like defending someone for doing a crappy job but wanting to give them a raise anyway.
I pay close to 400 and get water once every 9 days if I'm lucky.
Redman wrote:The supply is as a result of a dated infrastructure.

How do you justify a multi 100m if not billion dollar injection if the base case is a continuation of the ultra low revenue?

At the same time per capita use is higher than most jurisdictions.

So we using too much, paying too little and still feel entitled.



it is statement of fact.
Because it’s inconvenient to you changes nothing.

You think any funding agency will fund a few hundred million without being convinced that the borrowers can repay?

It’s decades that the water is subsidized and the inefficiencies obvious.


Fuel
Electricity
Water

All subsidized all govt controlled
All wasteful and inefficient.
Last edited by Redman on October 18th, 2020, 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: T&TEC, WASA increase coming in 2016... now 2021?

Postby Dizzy28 » October 18th, 2020, 9:44 am


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Re: T&TEC, WASA increase coming in 2016... now 2021?

Postby MaxPower » October 18th, 2020, 10:17 am

I agree,

Too much water is being wasted carelessly especially around Carnival time by hooligans and wajangs as they scream and wine violently for numerous water trucks.

This is a clear indication that water has absolutely no value to them.

It’s time to raise the water rate significantly.

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Re: T&TEC, WASA increase coming in 2016... now 2021?

Postby 88sins » October 18th, 2020, 10:40 am

Redman wrote:
jhonnieblue wrote:This is a stupid statement. How can you say highest usage if over 50% of water is lost during transmission.
You can't blame the population for that as that's directly the responsibility of the authority.
That's like defending someone for doing a crappy job but wanting to give them a raise anyway.
I pay close to 400 and get water once every 9 days if I'm lucky.
Redman wrote:The supply is as a result of a dated infrastructure.

How do you justify a multi 100m if not billion dollar injection if the base case is a continuation of the ultra low revenue?

At the same time per capita use is higher than most jurisdictions.

So we using too much, paying too little and still feel entitled.



it is statement of fact.
Because it’s inconvenient to you changes nothing.

You think any funding agency will fund a few hundred million without being convinced that the borrowers can repay?

It’s decades that the water is subsidized and the inefficiencies obvious.


Fuel
Electricity
Water

All subsidized all govt controlled
All wasteful and inefficient.


Like you forget what patos used to call WASA? He called it "the 500 million dollar headache", and for good reason.

Ok, yes, many of WASA supply problems are directly attributable to dated infrastructure. But the vast BULK of wastage of water in Trinidad and Tobago doesn't come from the end users, the bulk of the wastage is caused by WASA themselves. There's literally hundreds if not thousands of cases, where a transmission line springs a large leak, wasting thousands of gallons of water, and WASA takes literally months to attend to the repair. That's neither the customers fault nor responsibility, and if the supply line to your residence is broken and you take fassness and interfere with WASA line andthey see you, you can face a criminal case for your efforts. I personally seen more than a few instances of leaks that were left unattended for months on end, destroying roads, houses, undermining land, etc. And WASA couldn't be bothered until someone makes their lack of interest known publicly via the media.

WASA actually has the manpower, equipment and resources to maintain and repair all their transmission lines. Yet a lot of the work is contracted out to private sector companies. So what all these WASA workers being paid to do really? And why the need for private sector labor inputs?
You remember the Errol Grimes incident? After he was issued a vehicle (iirc a Toyota RAV4) and driver, both paid for by WASA, but was taking WASA money to lease luxury vehicles and the Toyota park up in his yard. And after all said and done, nothing came out of it. This is the kinda waste that goes on. End users responsible for that wastage too?

Yes WASA need money to provide a supply. Yes our rates are low compared to other countries. But before a rate increase, wasa needs to undergo a comprehensive audit and find and fix their financial leaks.
To use a water analogy.
Say your household and family has a problem with lack of water regularly. So you get a second hand tank, and the person that gave you the tank tell you it leaks, but you take it anyway.
So now you filling said tank with a garden hose and you know that the tank has a gaping hole in 10% of the base, yet you wondering why it not filling up and ignoring the water leaking on the ground. So as a solution, you start using a fire hose and high pressure pump. Tank still won't fill, and more water still wastes, and you still have a water shortage, but you trying hard to convince your wife that the fire hose alone is the best solution, even though you know and see it won't work, and not for nothing would you repair the hole.

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Re: T&TEC, WASA increase coming in 2016... now 2021?

Postby zoom rader » October 18th, 2020, 11:08 am

Take all yuh rate increases and then run and vote red Goverment.

Bunch of stupid red Goverment supporters

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Re: T&TEC, WASA increase coming in 2016... now 2021?

Postby Redman » October 18th, 2020, 11:29 am

Ultimately the entities that provide subsidized services are kept in a state of confusion to enable graft and wastage.

Management guiding contracts, employee s milking overtime.

Sounds like petrotrin
Like ttec
Like CAL
Like WASA.

We have to bell the cat.

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Re: T&TEC, WASA increase coming in 2016... now 2021?

Postby 88sins » October 18th, 2020, 12:10 pm

Redman wrote:Ultimately the entities that provide subsidized services are kept in a state of confusion to enable graft and wastage.

Management guiding contracts, employee s milking overtime.

Sounds like petrotrin
Like ttec
Like CAL
Like WASA.

We have to bell the cat.


In extreme cases of fleas on felines, sometimes you hadda damn near drown the cat to get rid of the fleas, all to the cats gross displeasure.
All those entities you listed, don't need shutting down or increases or state funding and subsidies. They need to scrap down to bare bones, from executive management downward, and restructuring from the ground up with efficiency and profitability as the core objectives.


But dis is Trinidad, the land of the B's. Bobol, bacchanal, BS, and backwardness.

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Re: T&TEC, WASA increase coming in 2016... now 2021?

Postby shake d livin wake d dead » October 18th, 2020, 1:42 pm

Would a restructuring of wasa or privatization of wasa lead to a better water supply?

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Re: T&TEC, WASA increase coming in 2016... now 2021?

Postby Redman » October 18th, 2020, 2:34 pm

Eventually yes.

But like all the others....it suffers from a lack of investment into plant and machinery...over the last 20 + years....so some real work has to be done.

I say find a way to let private sector run state assets.
House the asset in a NIF like product and get full disclosure

Well said 88.

And that’s the problem...politically the cats pleasure is the key to power.

So...let someone else do the dirty work.

But here we are.

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Re: T&TEC, WASA increase coming in 2016... now 2021?

Postby Dohplaydat » October 18th, 2020, 2:46 pm

Redman wrote:Eventually yes.

But like all the others....it suffers from a lack of investment into plant and machinery...over the last 20 + years....so some real work has to be done.

I say find a way to let private sector run state assets.
House the asset in a NIF like product and get full disclosure

Well said 88.

And that’s the problem...politically the cats pleasure is the key to power.

So...let someone else do the dirty work.

But here we are.


Patos had a huge plan to restructure WASA and it was a massive infrastructure plan that included matered billing. Something I can totally agree with.

However, that plan was scrapped when PP came into office.

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Re: T&TEC, WASA increase coming in 2016... now 2021?

Postby j.o.e » October 19th, 2020, 6:29 am

Years ago I had a older American woman that used to come trinidad for me to service her. While on vacation here she got a automated text/ email stating her water usage has been up x% for that last fortnight and she should check her property for leaks or open faucets. Think about that for a second.
While we may not have the best supply we have no concern for conservation of what we have. A running hose leaky faucet means nothing.
We spoiled as usual, if we paid for what we used we would use less and maybe possibly they’re would be more water and more money to upgrade/repair mains.
Nobody wants to pay more but also keep in mind people with sprinklers, pools etc are paying about the same as you. You poor guys always willing to bawl the most but don’t realize the wealthiest won’t even pay a fair share.

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Re: T&TEC, WASA increase coming in 2016... now 2021?

Postby zoom rader » October 19th, 2020, 7:26 am

j.o.e wrote:Years ago I had a older American woman that used to come trinidad for me to service her. While on vacation here she got a automated text/ email stating her water usage has been up x% for that last fortnight and she should check her property for leaks or open faucets. Think about that for a second.
While we may not have the best supply we have no concern for conservation of what we have. A running hose leaky faucet means nothing.
We spoiled as usual, if we paid for what we used we would use less and maybe possibly they’re would be more water and more money to upgrade/repair mains.
Nobody wants to pay more but also keep in mind people with sprinklers, pools etc are paying about the same as you. You poor guys always willing to bawl the most but don’t realize the wealthiest won’t even pay a fair share.


Its one of the reasons why Wasa does not want to install meters .

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Re: T&TEC, WASA increase coming in 2016... now 2021?

Postby Redman » October 19th, 2020, 7:38 am

https://sites.google.com/a/workersunion ... rykangalee


He defines efficiency not as WASA’s ability to supply a safe and reliable supply of pipe-borne water but as the number of employees per thousand connections.

He claims WASA
has 12-13 employees per thousand connections and that top companies have 3-4 employees per thousand connections.

This is a clear signal that when WASA applies to the RIC for a rate increase, a major consideration by the RIC is going to be how many workers per connection does WASA have

What Lee Young did was set the stage for implementing the conditionalities contained in the 2012 loan to WASA of US$600,000,000 from the Inter-American Development Bank

(IDB) for the ongoing Waste Water Rehabilitation Project. US$50 million of that loan is for the re-organization of WASA. According to the IDB, the plan is to “decrease the number of employees per 1,000 connections from 12.5 in 2011 to 5.8 in 2016.” This means that more

than half of WASA’s workforce in 2011 was supposed to have been eliminated by 2016. That reduction didn’t take place then, but is surely about to take place soon.

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Re: T&TEC, WASA increase coming in 2016... now 2021?

Postby sMASH » October 19th, 2020, 7:39 am

if they deploy meters, i might pay 30 or 40 dollars at present metered rates.... per billing cycle, not month.

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Re: T&TEC, WASA increase coming in 2016... now 2021?

Postby rebound » October 19th, 2020, 8:02 am

I remember visiting a friend in St. Marteen back in 2009 and saw a water bill equating to 60usd a month, and she said that is on the lower range of the bill.

In our case in Trini, we should start with the higher rates now as a capital investment and trust that the right measures and management is put in place to result in a better service.

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Re: T&TEC, WASA increase coming in 2016... now 2021?

Postby matr1x » October 19th, 2020, 8:16 am

areas such and lavantille and Maloney are infamous for not paying electricity and water bills. Why are we being charged for their delinquency?

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Re: T&TEC, WASA increase coming in 2016... now 2021?

Postby Dave » October 19th, 2020, 8:29 am

That's exactly what I was thinking.
We have to support the non paying clientele.
Same thing happens where I live.
matr1x wrote:areas such and lavantille and Maloney are infamous for not paying electricity and water bills. Why are we being charged for their delinquency?

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Re: T&TEC, WASA increase coming in 2016... now 2021?

Postby teems1 » October 19th, 2020, 9:27 am

It's either you have first world service so you can charge first world rates.

What we will be getting is third world service with first world rates.
rebound wrote:I remember visiting a friend in St. Marteen back in 2009 and saw a water bill equating to 60usd a month, and she said that is on the lower range of the bill.

In our case in Trini, we should start with the higher rates now as a capital investment and trust that the right measures and management is put in place to result in a better service.

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Re: T&TEC, WASA increase coming in 2016... now 2021?

Postby redmanjp » October 19th, 2020, 9:49 am

j.o.e wrote:Years ago I had a older American woman that used to come trinidad for me to service her. While on vacation here she got a automated text/ email stating her water usage has been up x% for that last fortnight and she should check her property for leaks or open faucets. Think about that for a second.


T&TEC now has this ability- i setup an alert for over 440kWh and got an alert saying i exceeded it. So WASA can do it but they will have to roll out meters first.

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Re: T&TEC, WASA increase coming in 2016... now 2021?

Postby Redman » October 19th, 2020, 12:17 pm

The percapita use that I can find is about 90 gallons a day.

What do you pay per gallon per month?

https://www.guardian.co.tt/news/low-rat ... 7e419bd605


Asked about the rates being charged by users in T&T, WASA officials confirmed domestic rates ranged from $108 (TT) to $304 per quarter or about $1.20 to $3.38 per day. Industrial rates based on metered usage ranged from $3.50 cubic metre to $12.000 per cubic metre.

Comparing T&T’s average residential water tariff to that of other Caribbean territories, the Castalia Strategic Advisors Benchmarking Report of November 2018 found that T&T actually charged the lowest at US $0.31 per cubic metre as opposed to Curacao at US $3.05 and Bahamas at US $2.78. Antigua charged US $2.52 per cubic metre, Jamaica charged US $1.95, while Barbados charged US $1.84.

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Re: T&TEC, WASA increase coming in 2016... now 2021?

Postby 88sins » October 19th, 2020, 12:24 pm

rebound wrote:I remember visiting a friend in St. Marteen back in 2009 and saw a water bill equating to 60usd a month, and she said that is on the lower range of the bill.

In our case in Trini, we should start with the higher rates now as a capital investment and trust that the right measures and management is put in place to result in a better service.


dude, this is T&T, & I must say, you got a whole lot of misplaced and misguided faith, & in entities that have proven to be consistently unreliable for decades
What would happen in that instance, is that you'd pay a higher rate and get the same service or just as likely worse service for your money, because they will say they don't have the manpower.
Right now and from ever since whenever, if you only get water in your taps for one hour a day one day a week for the whole year, you are expected to pay your entire quarterly rates. The jokey thing is tho, in such a scenario WASA got zero scruples in telling you that you in arrears with payment no matter how frickin delinquent they are with the supply volume, quantity, or frequency. people getting screwed from wasa for decades, paying more gonna magically fix that? I doubt. And you want to "trust" they go do things the right way? cool, hope for that all yuh want


Don't be surprised when you get disappointed

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