Death Penalty Bill DELETE..rainman thread hav more bakanal

[rossi]

AG: Changes made to Death Penalty Bill
Thursday 24th Feb 2011

Government has conceded to the Opposition's demands on the Death Penalty bill.

The announcement was made by Attorney General Anand Ramlogan at today's Post Cabinet Media Briefing.

The Opposition PNM had indicated that while it supports the death penalty, it was unhappy with certain proposals in the bill, including categories of murder. Though Mr. Ramlogan believes these categories are essential, since there are often extenuating circumstances leading to murder, he confirms that the government has now amended the Bill to reflect the Opposition's wishes.

Mr. Ramlogan is hoping that the concession in giving up the categories of murder, as well as another on time limits, will be recognised by the PNM. He is now hoping for a positive outcome since the bill requires a three fourths majority in order to be passed. This means the bill will need the support of the Opposition if it is to be passed.

"Half a loaf is better than none and we are not here to protect criminals”, the Attorney General said. “We are here to handle criminals with the full force of the law. If what the Opposition is saying is treat all murders as the same, fine. We are not going to quarrel with that and we are not going to vex with the Opposition on that."

Mr. Ramlogan said the government's position on the death penalty is clear and all members are in full support. He is hoping when debate resumes on Monday that all members of the House will present a united front.

"If this becomes law, the 18 month period for completing your international petitions to the International Court of Human Rights and other such bodies, for those who even have them in train, the law kicks in. So that if you have one in train and 18 months is about to expire, once the 18 months come up, the way the law is drafted, you will be liable to be executed. If you are a convicted murderer and you have your final Constitutional motion before the Privy Council, you have 18 months thereafter to have your petition heard and determined by the International Court of Human Rights. Or else, you will suffer the same fate. It will happen quicker than we think and that's why we want the Opposition support."

[TRAE]

good!!

[redmanjp]

so if the ICHR or Privy Council doh hear yuh case in 18 mths then crapeaux smoke yuh pipe? you will get executed while your case is still b4 them is what this law saying? Desperate times call for desperate measures but suppose u are wrongfuilly convicted now- or like that man who run down d bandit & kill he with his car and get convicted- so u could b innocent & u could get executed before d privy council rules in your favour?

[hustla_ambition101]

I will not support the death penalty until the police force is cleaned up of rogue elements, the police are upgraded with proper technology including a DNA database, where it would be mandatory for all arrested persons to submit a sample. The Judiciary also needs cleaning up of the corrupt judges

[Premera]

I will not support the death penalty until the police force is cleaned up of rogue elements, the police are upgraded with proper technology including a DNA database, where it would be mandatory for all arrested persons to submit a sample. The Judiciary also needs cleaning up of the corrupt judges

bro......we all know that eh happenin here.....imagine we have the " breathalyser " and i eh see no police outside any fetes including the chutney soca monarch doing random tests.............or is it that the law allows for wining and grinding , random sex and rum like rain for the carnival season ?

All ah dem is ah set of jokers i.m.o.

[AllTrac]

I will not support the death penalty until the police force is cleaned up of rogue elements, the police are upgraded with proper technology including a DNA database, where it would be mandatory for all arrested persons to submit a sample. The Judiciary also needs cleaning up of the corrupt judges

lol you are asking for something that even 1st world countries cant achieve.

[hustla_ambition101]

I will not support the death penalty until the police force is cleaned up of rogue elements, the police are upgraded with proper technology including a DNA database, where it would be mandatory for all arrested persons to submit a sample. The Judiciary also needs cleaning up of the corrupt judges

lol you are asking for something that even 1st world countries cant achieve.

Yeah but their justice systems are not backward like ours, most of our laws are up to the discretion of the police.....imagine a drunken argument among idiotic relatives of a family of rumbos is given prompt attention but when the woman assaulted my mom the police did nothing claiming they had no vehicle and was short staffed. How much of our murder cases are thrown out because of the lack of forensic and or ballistic evidence tying the suspect to the crime. How many people's tint is stripped because the officer find it too dark, how many tickets are issued for lights that are too bright but the laws have no defined legal lighting intensity. I not saying that systems become 100% perfect but as it stands now innocent people will go to jail and face the hangman. How would you feel if the man who killed the bandit while defending his family was charged, committed to stand trial and sentenced to hang because the police thought that he used excessive force????

[AllTrac]

my comment was at you wanted the corrupt elements in police system and justice system purged, its something that would never be 100% clean, no matter what country. Im in agreement with the DNA database and new technology.

[Bezman]

I will not support the death penalty until the police force is cleaned up of rogue elements, the police are upgraded with proper technology including a DNA database, where it would be mandatory for all arrested persons to submit a sample. The Judiciary also needs cleaning up of the corrupt judges

bro......we all know that eh happenin here.....imagine we have the " breathalyser " and i eh see no police outside any fetes including the chutney soca monarch doing random tests.............or is it that the law allows for wining and grinding , random sex and rum like rain for the carnival season ?

All ah dem is ah set of jokers i.m.o.

dan, well down in the west is level breathalyzer, man, woman, white, brown, black and yelluh getting it level.

[~Vēġó~]

^^^very good to know!!!!

[Mudboy]

If they made changes and the bill has no substance now (watered down) you cannot blame Rowley for not supporting it........they need to change this AG...too emotional.

[BlueIce]

finally!

[rossi]

^^ I think they made changes to appease the Opposition dude.
Who knows, dumbass Rowley will most likely kick it down.....this man opposes everything.

[eyephone]

Opposition leaves Govt hanging

Friday, February 25 2011
http://newsday.co.tt/news/0,136376.html

ATTORNEY GENERAL (AG) Anand Ramlogan yesterday disclosed that Government has removed the categorisation of murders and added fixed times for appeals to international bodies to convince the Opposition PNM to support the passage of the Capital Offences Bill in the House of Representatives.

However, Ramlogan said in spite of all the capitulations which have been made to the Opposition, the PNM is behaving like a reluctant lover and refusing to accept Government’s invitation to support the bill.

The AG made these comments at the post-Cabinet news conference at the Office of the Prime Minister in St Clair, following the adjournment of debate in the House on the bill at 11.30 pm on Wednesday night. Government Chief Whip Dr Roodal Moonilal said the House will sit on Monday at 1.30 pm to conclude deliberations on the bill and vote on it. The bill requires 31 MPs, a three-fourths majority, to pass the bill. The Government has 29 MPs in the House while the Opposition has 12. Identifying the removal of the categorisation of murders and fixed times for appeals to international bodies as the main reasons why the PNM was not supporting the bill, Ramlogan said: “In a tone of conciliation what I have done with the approval of the Prime Minister and the Cabinet is to accept those proposals.”

He explained that all clauses regarding the categorisation of murder have been deleted from the bill which has been further amended to impose an 18-month deadline for appeals to international bodies in accordance with the Privy Council’s ruling in the Pratt and Morgan case.

Complaining that the PNM has refused to support the bill even after getting these concessions, Ramlogan declared, “I have reached for the date, lit the candles, scattered the rose petals on the table and I’m sitting there waiting and they have chosen not to show up. I have ordered from the menu that which she said was her favourite dish. That is the position that I find myself.”

Warning the Opposition that it would be signing its own “political death warrant” if it refuses to support the bill on Monday, Ramlogan charged, “It is clear that the Opposition does not want the death penalty to be enforced in this country. This is the irresistible and logical conclusion that one can draw.”

Declaring that the blame will not fall on the Government if the bill is defeated on Monday, Ramlogan said, “The country will not forgive and not forget an irresponsible Opposition that withholds support for a law that is already in place and for a measure that seeks to give effect to that law and facilitates that.”

The AG said he was not attacking the PNM’s recommendations to amend the bill but the PNM’s “political deception and hypocrisy” for refusing to support the bill after the Government bent over backwards to accommodate them so together they could win the “two-legged race” to curb crime in the country.

Noting that the Opposition refused to accept a request by Government to refer the bill to a joint select committee, Ramlogan said Government will not scrap the bill and return to Parliament with a new bill. “It is like asking me to take the same wine and throw it in a new bottle so that the Opposition will look good,” he stated.

Ramlogan said all members of the People’s Partnership support the bill and once it becomes law, he felt the Senate would be “hard pressed” not to support it. He added that the death penalty must be implemented in order to reverse a situation which has seen “young children go missing” and people being killed “like stray cats and dogs.” The AG disagreed with the call for the Caribbean Court of Justice to replace the Privy Council as the country’s final appellate court , because most of the delays occurred at the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights where matters could take as much as five years to be heard.

Ramlogan’s explanation was supported by Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar later yesterday while speaking to the media during a police roadblock exercise at Busy Corner, Chaguanas.

“Our main intention is really to be able to resume hangings, we have already amended and placed before them the amendments to remove those sections dealing with categorisation. We adjourned the Parliament to go back on Monday. That will give them some time to look at it and reconsider their position,” she said of the Opposition.

The Prime Minister said the more important aspect of the death penalty bill is the ability to execute death sentences, no matter the time taken for appeals after sentencing.

“There were two policy decisions of course. One is to allow us the time frame that is necessary, that was taken away from us through the decision in Pratt and Morgan and therefore be able to execute the death penalty regardless of the amount of time that had passed.”

Persad-Bissessar made it clear every amendment requested by the Opposition had been granted, so there should be no further obstacles to the Bill’s passage.

“The ball is squarely in their court and we are committed to going through with the enactment on Monday...it is a matter of high constitutional entrenchment and requires a three-quarters majority rather than the normal two-thirds. So that whilst we may have our two-thirds, we need three-quarters and therefore the Opposition vote is very vital with respect to that Bill,” Persad-Bissessar said.

When asked if the People’s Partnership had the support of Independent Senators on this Bill, the Prime Minister told reporters she believed there was “but of course it must pass the House first.”

[TRAE]

my comment was at you wanted the corrupt elements in police system and justice system purged, its something that would never be 100% clean, no matter what country. Im in agreement with the DNA database and new technology.

I in agreement with this as well, but... hang dey mc,

[brams112]

the opposition doing what they are named

[rossi]

Rowley not waiting for the day to come...he already said he's not going to support it. This man SADDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD. Oh GODDDDDDD MAN!!!!

[Stephon.]

Rowley not waiting for the day to come...he already said he's not going to support it. This man SADDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD. Oh GODDDDDDD MAN!!!!

He's fighting out of spite and not doing what he BEST for the country. smh.

[hustla_ambition101]

Beckles: Hangings won’t solve crime...
Detection, conviction first
Published: Sat, 2011-02-26 21:34
Radhica Sookraj


Opposition senator Pennelope Beckles says there is a strong debate that hanging criminals will not solve crime because improving detection and conviction rates are just as important. Speaking with reporters after visiting the relatives of eight-year-old Daniel Guerra yesterday, Beckles said issues of police corruption, insufficient police resources and low conviction and detection rates are hampering the fight against crime. She said: “There is a debate that hanging is not going to deter crime. It is not just the issue of hanging. We have a low detection rate in Trinidad and Tobago. We have a low conviction rate.

“You say by putting fear of hanging into people will solve crime but whether you are going to the court is the real issue,” Beckles said. “Getting to the stage of hanging is one thing but you have to look at the process from the issue of holding the person, going to court, getting witnesses, having conviction, going to the procedure of hanging.” The People’s National Movement (PNM) senator also wondered how many people were held for the hundreds of murders which took place each year in T&T.

“Trinidadians and Tobagonians want a certain measure of comfort,” she said. “When you look at the process and when you look at your ability to detect, our detection rate is very low and if you cannot detect a crime, you cannot convict and you cannot hang,” Beckles said. Asked to comment on the performance of Police Commissioner Dwayne Gibbs, Beckles said she did not agree with his statements that T&T had enough police officers.

“He is on record as saying there are enough police officers...I am not of that view but he has been here a couple months now and I think we are going to have to do a kind of assessment that will put us in a better position,” she said. “I think, like everybody else, you have to give him the benefit of the doubt and clearly if you don't see any reduction of murders and the ability to detect or keeping witnesses safe if the conviction rate does not improve, those are the targets that determine whether or not we decide if he has failed or not.”

On the issue of police corruption, Beckles noted that in all professions, there were corrupt people. “Gibbs said he’s going to deal with corrupt officers...The question is how many corrupt officers have been charged or convicted?” she said. Beckles added that success in the crime fight is determined by levels of crime detection and conviction.

My sentiments exactly.

[rossi]

Why Beckles doh suck ah bottom?

[brickman]

Bill defeated,thank you rowley & fellow opposition kants!

[Bezman]

if rowely thinks this is how he is going to get support from the PNM voters and be the best opposition leader he is sadly mistaken, this is one bill they should have let pass..

[RASC]

Has the Bill been made public?

Is there anyway I can access it? Thanks.

[RASC]

if rowely thinks this is how he is going to get support from the PNM voters and be the best opposition leader he is sadly mistaken, this is one bill they should have let pass..

Do you have access to it?

[Bezman]

i do, but i not giving it to you

[RASC]

i do, but i not giving it to you

Rioght

[Aaron 2NR]

[DrunkenMaster16]

less than 7 days...

death penalty can wait...



PALANCE!!!!!!

[Stephon.]

[rossi]

Idiot.