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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby timelapse » September 10th, 2022, 7:31 pm

abducted wrote:
timelapse wrote:
abducted wrote:God not real, just a made up idea by humans to explain the parts of the universe they don’t understand, we are arguing about peoples imaginary friends,
What if that's what God wants you to think?

Is that a god you would want to worship?
Contrary to popular belief,God does not need us to worship him.Thats basically us being the selfish cnuts that we are trying to get the odds stacked in our favour.If you want to thank God for things,that just plain old gratitude.I don't really think God has to bless and highly favour any specific people.Thats all marketing for religion.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby daring dragoon » September 10th, 2022, 7:58 pm

timelapse wrote:
abducted wrote:
timelapse wrote:
abducted wrote:God not real, just a made up idea by humans to explain the parts of the universe they don’t understand, we are arguing about peoples imaginary friends,
What if that's what God wants you to think?

Is that a god you would want to worship?
Contrary to popular belief,God does not need us to worship him.Thats basically us being the selfish cnuts that we are trying to get the odds stacked in our favour.If you want to thank God for things,that just plain old gratitude.I don't really think God has to bless and highly favour any specific people.Thats all marketing for religion.



in all religion their god want praise and blind faith to them. that is why it has christmas, divali and eid. The gods want humans to worship them to gain a place in heaven. this is how the gods ensure their immortality. people praying to god make them immortal. if people stop praying to god they die. people will forget them eventually and they fail to exist.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby matr1x » September 11th, 2022, 12:24 am

21 years ago today we saw the true face of Islam. Condolences to the mothers and fathers, the sons and daughters, the wives and husbands. We will not stop fighting them.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby MaxPower » September 11th, 2022, 1:11 am

matr1x wrote:21 years ago today we saw the true face of Islam. Condolences to the mothers and fathers, the sons and daughters, the wives and husbands. We will not stop fighting them.


K

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby DMan7 » September 11th, 2022, 11:42 am

You does know when things nice in life for people, when things nice people start to question the existence of god, when things in their lives start going haywire they suddenly found religion and start using all the godly terms like "Oh God", "God help me" etc... Hypocrisy at its finest.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby maj. tom » September 11th, 2022, 1:03 pm

so you're saying that as humanity and civilization advances technologically and medically, etc. to make life better.... that people on Earth start questioning the nonsense that their ancestors believed in to help them through harder times? But the places where life is still extremely hard, they need the same ridiculous and harsh rules of civilization drawn up by our ancestors through religions to endure life by being kept in line by an imaginary nothing in the sky?

The 2nd half not always true for most persons who get over that psychological idea. A lot of people just face what life gives for what it is without the hypocrisy interludes.

Have you become self-aware without knowing it? Are you really a time traveler?

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby mero » September 11th, 2022, 1:41 pm

How you know what our ancestors believed in is nonsense? Quite a bold claim. Plenty time in history for plenty things to happen including divine or intergalactic interactions.

We doh know one ass and nothing even needs to make sensebor be logical

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby maj. tom » September 11th, 2022, 2:39 pm

You don't have to read any of this but the last paragraph.

It wasn't "nonsense" for its time. Whatever it was likely evolved out of natural civilization evolution and likely the first start in an attempt to understand and cope with death as the ape brain evolved into higher intelligence to perceive its own existence "I think, therefore I am." Many religions and beliefs have died and disappeared over time. Current religious people absolutely think that ancient religions that have disappeared are indeed superstitious nonsense, like Zeus a Greek God or Nut, the Egyptian Goddesses of the Universe. What about the religion of Neanderthals 40,000 years ago that disappeared without a trace? Modern Christianity considers that nonsense right, seeing their own myth of creation?

However, some endured much longer in certain parts of the world like India, Japan and Australia because the early basis of some religions and way of life is not based on supernatural but rather natural laws that were made by our ancestors over time to keep society working to help them survive. Example: many gender and sex based rules in religion were based on what was considered natural law in harder, unenlightened times. Men and women had vital roles that made society function. If they didn't function as was law and were not kept strict, society may have collapsed. (That is why you are always hearing about signs of the end of times from religion nuts when modern society started to allow everyone, race and sex to have equal opportunities and rights). Gaps were then filled in with supernatural that could not be explained at the time, but they were not based on these explanations. No proof nonsense became major directing points of religion when society's hierarchy started using religion as a political tool to control and manipulate the masses to direct power, wealth and war, where they would write holy books and keep records of things that never happened, things that we know now could never have happened, nor still can hold up to any remote burden of proof.

It is in our time now that we have the knowledge and tools to explore the world and universe and we can consider the reality of our existence without leaving the huge gaps that need to be filled with supernatural ideas for an explanation. If you're saying that there was divine or alien intervention in the past, sure that could be a possibility. But is it relevant today with what we know through our own observations of the world, and can examine and test? These divine or alien interventions have left no proof for the future to discover, no experiment or data or real record to show that they existed or still exist or have an effect on anything around us today. The only "records" that perhaps exist are human written holy books, which I pointed out was mostly written and used for political control. These are largely unreliable and nothing in them can be reproduced. Why would divine intervention suddenly stop when we started discovering Galilean astronomy, the elements of the Periodic Table, Quantum physics and computer programming intelligence? Why would alien intervention matter today now that we know how vast the universe is and that if there was such, they're far, far, far away or dead by now and have no effect on anything today, plus won't their intervention have been based on their technology which is still real physics? Magic and divine is simply technology which we cannot yet explain? Claims of technology will have proof, like even simple technology of stone-chipped blade knives.
___________________________
Summary:
We know now that much of the divine/supernatural that our ancestors believed in is in fact nonsense, but in context for its time, I guess it wasn't and had its role for societies. We know better now. Example, if the story of Mary's immaculate conception and Jesus's birth occurred today, would anyone on the planet believe that nonsense? No, we would laugh at Joseph, that story is as old as time, what an idiot, nor would we believe in anything it is claimed that Jesus did; Penn & Teller are a better act today. Do any of us sincerely believe the nonsense that a god monkey grew the size of a mountain and transported it across the ocean just to find a herb? With no geological proof, geology that lasts for millions and billions of years? Or that an earth-bound god directed animals to have the capability to build a stone bridge 2 km deep and 30 km long to cross into Lanka, rather that it be simply explained as a natural crossing in the ocean due to lower sea levels and continent drift? {{** Do any of us really believe that a sky god and his angel messenger sent messages to one particular tribal leader in a cave in the desert (no other witnesses of course, how convenient) who claimed to have taken a journey and visited the seven heavens on a magic horse all in that one night and wrote all the rules of a holy book which happened to be a conglomeration of many ancient desert laws and also lending from contemporary beliefs of the time at the end of the Roman Empire, which had to be fanatically adhered to in order survive in that harsh climate without water? Or why millions of people every year make a pilgrimage to walk around a black stone set in a man-made monument which happens to be located at an ancient meeting place of worship for all tribes in the region, a black stone which surely is nothing but an iron meteorite that fell from space and was preserved in the dry climate? Divine then to be sure, nonsense today**}} Stoically put, religion was created to explain death and it eventually grew into something big enough to drive many civilizations in the past.

{{**}} had to add an edit just in case some people ever reading it think that I left out one because of a bias.
Last edited by maj. tom on September 11th, 2022, 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby abducted » September 11th, 2022, 3:28 pm

Civilisations once believed that the God of Thunder created lightning, we now know the science about how lightning forms, in ages past and even now, when we can't explain something, we insert god as the reason, religion is for the weak,

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby matr1x » September 11th, 2022, 3:44 pm

The expression, "oh god" is more of a cultural and linguistic axiom versus and actuly belief

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby chief_of_sTAFf » September 11th, 2022, 4:04 pm

God is a personification or anthropomorphisation of values, ideals, and virtues (like Justice, Goodness, Love), but believers don't realise this.

Also God has been used to explain away anything that is profound and unexplainable. This is why when it comes to two mysteries - the formation of our universe, and the formation of singlecelled life on Earth - that the 'cause' of these things is God. However the main problem with that is God provides no explanatory power. The believers have no 'models' to explain either mystery.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby MG Man » September 12th, 2022, 9:05 am

god is a comfort blanket for people who can't accept that death is final and your consciousness ceases to exist

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby timelapse » September 12th, 2022, 5:06 pm

All this depends on your definition and perception of God.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » September 13th, 2022, 1:01 am

The Creation itself is sufficient a proof for any thinking person...


Were they created by nothing?
Or were they themselves the creators? (ie, did they create themselves?)
Or did they create the heavens and the earth?
Nay, but they have no firm Belief.


https://quran.com/52/35-36


Those who remember Allah (always, and in prayers) standing,
sitting, and lying down on their sides,
and think deeply about the creation of the heavens and the earth,
(saying): "Our Lord! You have not created (all) this without purpose,
glory to You! (Exalted are You above all that they associate with You as partners).
Give us salvation from the torment of the Fire."


https://quran.com/3/191


Explanations: https://abdurrahman.org/2014/12/12/the- ... uthaymeen/






chief_of_sTAFf wrote:God is a personification or anthropomorphisation of values, ideals, and virtues (like Justice, Goodness, Love), but believers don't realise this.

Also God has been used to explain away anything that is profound and unexplainable. This is why when it comes to two mysteries - the formation of our universe, and the formation of singlecelled life on Earth - that the 'cause' of these things is God. However the main problem with that is God provides no explanatory power. The believers have no 'models' to explain either mystery.


MG Man wrote:god is a comfort blanket for people who can't accept that death is final and your consciousness ceases to exist


timelapse wrote:All this depends on your definition and perception of God.


maj. tom wrote:
You don't have to read any of this but the last paragraph.

It wasn't "nonsense" for its time. Whatever it was likely evolved out of natural civilization evolution and likely the first start in an attempt to understand and cope with death as the ape brain evolved into higher intelligence to perceive its own existence "I think, therefore I am." Many religions and beliefs have died and disappeared over time. Current religious people absolutely think that ancient religions that have disappeared are indeed superstitious nonsense, like Zeus a Greek God or Nut, the Egyptian Goddesses of the Universe. What about the religion of Neanderthals 40,000 years ago that disappeared without a trace? Modern Christianity considers that nonsense right, seeing their own myth of creation?

However, some endured much longer in certain parts of the world like India, Japan and Australia because the early basis of some religions and way of life is not based on supernatural but rather natural laws that were made by our ancestors over time to keep society working to help them survive. Example: many gender and sex based rules in religion were based on what was considered natural law in harder, unenlightened times. Men and women had vital roles that made society function. If they didn't function as was law and were not kept strict, society may have collapsed. (That is why you are always hearing about signs of the end of times from religion nuts when modern society started to allow everyone, race and sex to have equal opportunities and rights). Gaps were then filled in with supernatural that could not be explained at the time, but they were not based on these explanations. No proof nonsense became major directing points of religion when society's hierarchy started using religion as a political tool to control and manipulate the masses to direct power, wealth and war, where they would write holy books and keep records of things that never happened, things that we know now could never have happened, nor still can hold up to any remote burden of proof.

It is in our time now that we have the knowledge and tools to explore the world and universe and we can consider the reality of our existence without leaving the huge gaps that need to be filled with supernatural ideas for an explanation. If you're saying that there was divine or alien intervention in the past, sure that could be a possibility. But is it relevant today with what we know through our own observations of the world, and can examine and test? These divine or alien interventions have left no proof for the future to discover, no experiment or data or real record to show that they existed or still exist or have an effect on anything around us today. The only "records" that perhaps exist are human written holy books, which I pointed out was mostly written and used for political control. These are largely unreliable and nothing in them can be reproduced. Why would divine intervention suddenly stop when we started discovering Galilean astronomy, the elements of the Periodic Table, Quantum physics and computer programming intelligence? Why would alien intervention matter today now that we know how vast the universe is and that if there was such, they're far, far, far away or dead by now and have no effect on anything today, plus won't their intervention have been based on their technology which is still real physics? Magic and divine is simply technology which we cannot yet explain? Claims of technology will have proof, like even simple technology of stone-chipped blade knives.
___________________________
Summary:
We know now that much of the divine/supernatural that our ancestors believed in is in fact nonsense, but in context for its time, I guess it wasn't and had its role for societies. We know better now. Example, if the story of Mary's immaculate conception and Jesus's birth occurred today, would anyone on the planet believe that nonsense? No, we would laugh at Joseph, that story is as old as time, what an idiot, nor would we believe in anything it is claimed that Jesus did; Penn & Teller are a better act today. Do any of us sincerely believe the nonsense that a god monkey grew the size of a mountain and transported it across the ocean just to find a herb? With no geological proof, geology that lasts for millions and billions of years? Or that an earth-bound god directed animals to have the capability to build a stone bridge 2 km deep and 30 km long to cross into Lanka, rather that it be simply explained as a natural crossing in the ocean due to lower sea levels and continent drift? {{** Do any of us really believe that a sky god and his angel messenger sent messages to one particular tribal leader in a cave in the desert (no other witnesses of course, how convenient) who claimed to have taken a journey and visited the seven heavens on a magic horse all in that one night and wrote all the rules of a holy book which happened to be a conglomeration of many ancient desert laws and also lending from contemporary beliefs of the time at the end of the Roman Empire, which had to be fanatically adhered to in order survive in that harsh climate without water? Or why millions of people every year make a pilgrimage to walk around a black stone set in a man-made monument which happens to be located at an ancient meeting place of worship for all tribes in the region, a black stone which surely is nothing but an iron meteorite that fell from space and was preserved in the dry climate? Divine then to be sure, nonsense today**}} Stoically put, religion was created to explain death and it eventually grew into something big enough to drive many civilizations in the past.

{{**}} had to add an edit just in case some people ever reading it think that I left out one because of a bias.



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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » September 13th, 2022, 1:56 am

maj. tom wrote:These divine or alien interventions have left no proof for the future to discover...


Hmm...



Expansion of the Universe:

"We built the universe with great might, and We are certainly expanding it."


https://quran.com/51/47
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansion_of_the_universe




The creation of the early universe:

"Then He rose over (Istawa) towards the heaven when it was smoke, and said to it and to the earth: "Come both of you willingly or unwillingly." They both said: "We come willingly."


https://quran.com/41/11
https://www.science.org/content/article ... d-away-fog "About 300,000 years after the big bang, the universe was like a smoke-filled chamber..."




Orbits of the planets:

"And He it is Who has created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, each in an orbit floating/swimming."


https://quran.com/21/33
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliocentrism




Exact stages of the embryo's development (and negation that Adam evolved from an ape):

And indeed We created man (Adam) out of an extract of clay (water and earth). Thereafter We made him (the offspring of Adam) as a Nutfah (mixed drops of the male and female sexual discharge and lodged it) in a safe lodging (womb of the woman). Then We made the Nutfah into a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood), then We made the clot into a little lump of flesh, then We made out of that little lump of flesh bones, then We clothed the bones with flesh, and then We brought it forth as another creation. So Blessed is Allâh, the Best of creators.


https://quran.com/23/12-14
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3068791/ (Human Embryology)




... and we could go on...

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby Dohplaydat » September 13th, 2022, 2:35 am

FrankChag wrote:
maj. tom wrote:These divine or alien interventions have left no proof for the future to discover...


Hmm...



Expansion of the Universe:

"We built the universe with great might, and We are certainly expanding it."


https://quran.com/51/47
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansion_of_the_universe




The creation of the early universe:

"Then He rose over (Istawa) towards the heaven when it was smoke, and said to it and to the earth: "Come both of you willingly or unwillingly." They both said: "We come willingly."


https://quran.com/41/11
https://www.science.org/content/article ... d-away-fog "About 300,000 years after the big bang, the universe was like a smoke-filled chamber..."




Orbits of the planets:

"And He it is Who has created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, each in an orbit floating/swimming."


https://quran.com/21/33
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliocentrism




Exact stages of the embryo's development (and negation that Adam evolved from an ape):

And indeed We created man (Adam) out of an extract of clay (water and earth). Thereafter We made him (the offspring of Adam) as a Nutfah (mixed drops of the male and female sexual discharge and lodged it) in a safe lodging (womb of the woman). Then We made the Nutfah into a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood), then We made the clot into a little lump of flesh, then We made out of that little lump of flesh bones, then We clothed the bones with flesh, and then We brought it forth as another creation. So Blessed is Allâh, the Best of creators.


https://quran.com/23/12-14
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3068791/ (Human Embryology)




... and we could go on...


Let's pick and choose as the parts are analgous to real science while ignoring everything else. Makes total sense.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby daring dragoon » September 13th, 2022, 3:04 am

when you buy a text book in the 80's pluto was a plant and in the 2020's pluto is an exoplanet, same with the koran. it came after the gita and bible and it copy all their content and made flips to some of the life teaching that were in those books such as the hindu text say worship cow the koran say kill the cow, bible say wine is blood of christ and them say wine haram. the koran and muslims are cheap knock off of the real god and real teachings.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby stev » September 13th, 2022, 3:09 am

FrankChag wrote:
maj. tom wrote:These divine or alien interventions have left no proof for the future to discover...


Hmm...



Expansion of the Universe:

"We built the universe with great might, and We are certainly expanding it."


https://quran.com/51/47
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansion_of_the_universe




The creation of the early universe:

"Then He rose over (Istawa) towards the heaven when it was smoke, and said to it and to the earth: "Come both of you willingly or unwillingly." They both said: "We come willingly."


https://quran.com/41/11
https://www.science.org/content/article ... d-away-fog "About 300,000 years after the big bang, the universe was like a smoke-filled chamber..."




Orbits of the planets:

"And He it is Who has created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, each in an orbit floating/swimming."


https://quran.com/21/33
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliocentrism




Exact stages of the embryo's development (and negation that Adam evolved from an ape):

And indeed We created man (Adam) out of an extract of clay (water and earth). Thereafter We made him (the offspring of Adam) as a Nutfah (mixed drops of the male and female sexual discharge and lodged it) in a safe lodging (womb of the woman). Then We made the Nutfah into a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood), then We made the clot into a little lump of flesh, then We made out of that little lump of flesh bones, then We clothed the bones with flesh, and then We brought it forth as another creation. So Blessed is Allâh, the Best of creators.


https://quran.com/23/12-14
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3068791/ (Human Embryology)




... and we could go on...


not everyone can afford the DLC bro...some can only afford the basic bible game

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » September 13th, 2022, 3:13 am

Dohplaydat wrote:
FrankChag wrote:
maj. tom wrote:These divine or alien interventions have left no proof for the future to discover...


Hmm...



Expansion of the Universe:

"We built the universe with great might, and We are certainly expanding it."


https://quran.com/51/47
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansion_of_the_universe




The creation of the early universe:

"Then He rose over (Istawa) towards the heaven when it was smoke, and said to it and to the earth: "Come both of you willingly or unwillingly." They both said: "We come willingly."


https://quran.com/41/11
https://www.science.org/content/article ... d-away-fog "About 300,000 years after the big bang, the universe was like a smoke-filled chamber..."




Orbits of the planets:

"And He it is Who has created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, each in an orbit floating/swimming."


https://quran.com/21/33
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliocentrism




Exact stages of the embryo's development (and negation that Adam evolved from an ape):

And indeed We created man (Adam) out of an extract of clay (water and earth). Thereafter We made him (the offspring of Adam) as a Nutfah (mixed drops of the male and female sexual discharge and lodged it) in a safe lodging (womb of the woman). Then We made the Nutfah into a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood), then We made the clot into a little lump of flesh, then We made out of that little lump of flesh bones, then We clothed the bones with flesh, and then We brought it forth as another creation. So Blessed is Allâh, the Best of creators.


https://quran.com/23/12-14
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3068791/ (Human Embryology)




... and we could go on...


Let's pick and choose as the parts are analgous to real science while ignoring everything else. Makes total sense.


Hmm... al-Haytham (d. circa 1040 CE at the age of 75), widely considered as the "first true scientist", was a Muslim polymath (Physics, Math, Astronomy, Anatomy, what we'd call Engineering today, etc). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_al-Haytham This when England was in its Early Medieval period.. decades before the Norman conquest...

But I digress. You were about to say what we are ignoring that doesn't confirm to science...

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » September 13th, 2022, 3:35 am

daring dragoon wrote:when you buy a text book in the 80's pluto was a plant and in the 2020's pluto is an exoplanet, same with the koran. it came after the gita and bible and it copy all their content and made flips to some of the life teaching that were in those books such as the hindu text say worship cow the koran say kill the cow, bible say wine is blood of christ and them say wine haram. the koran and muslims are cheap knock off of the real god and real teachings.



Do they not then consider the Qur’ân carefully?
Had it been from other than Allâh,
they would surely have found therein many a contradiction.

https://quran.com/4/82

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby Dohplaydat » September 13th, 2022, 3:58 am

FrankChag wrote:
Dohplaydat wrote:
FrankChag wrote:
maj. tom wrote:These divine or alien interventions have left no proof for the future to discover...


Hmm...



Expansion of the Universe:

"We built the universe with great might, and We are certainly expanding it."


https://quran.com/51/47
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansion_of_the_universe




The creation of the early universe:

"Then He rose over (Istawa) towards the heaven when it was smoke, and said to it and to the earth: "Come both of you willingly or unwillingly." They both said: "We come willingly."


https://quran.com/41/11
https://www.science.org/content/article ... d-away-fog "About 300,000 years after the big bang, the universe was like a smoke-filled chamber..."




Orbits of the planets:

"And He it is Who has created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, each in an orbit floating/swimming."


https://quran.com/21/33
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliocentrism




Exact stages of the embryo's development (and negation that Adam evolved from an ape):

And indeed We created man (Adam) out of an extract of clay (water and earth). Thereafter We made him (the offspring of Adam) as a Nutfah (mixed drops of the male and female sexual discharge and lodged it) in a safe lodging (womb of the woman). Then We made the Nutfah into a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood), then We made the clot into a little lump of flesh, then We made out of that little lump of flesh bones, then We clothed the bones with flesh, and then We brought it forth as another creation. So Blessed is Allâh, the Best of creators.


https://quran.com/23/12-14
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3068791/ (Human Embryology)




... and we could go on...


Let's pick and choose as the parts are analgous to real science while ignoring everything else. Makes total sense.


Hmm... al-Haytham (d. circa 1040 CE at the age of 75), widely considered as the "first true scientist", was a Muslim polymath (Physics, Math, Astronomy, Anatomy, what we'd call Engineering today, etc). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_al-Haytham This when England was in its Early Medieval period.. decades before the Norman conquest...

But I digress. You were about to say what we are ignoring that doesn't confirm to science...


No, I don't get what you are trying to prove? Are you saying Allah is real and gave them this wisdom through some primitive vague descriptions? Or are you saying that Muslims were one of the more advanced empires back then and made some great discoveries? If it's the latter then I would agree.

However, you should know many empires across the world were the most advanced at some point in history. Right now for the last few centuries the west has been infront but we are definitely seeing a global shift to SE Asia....who maybe in 50 years or so would be substantially ahead of the west (or maybe in a fully globalised world, everyone wins to an extent).

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby matr1x » September 13th, 2022, 5:02 am

All religions are often placed for criticism and ridicule, why should Islam be given any special treatment?

Now they feel very comfortable using violence to silence criticism and parody. This seems to be because they realize that western cultures retreat. What should happen is that when a terrorist attack happens, 100 mosques go up in flames. Don't come in and do your nonsense

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby matr1x » September 13th, 2022, 5:05 am

And the foolish idea is don't judge a faith by the actions of its ppl. That's the very litmus test of a faith. How the people behave

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby daring dragoon » September 13th, 2022, 5:28 am

FrankChag wrote:
daring dragoon wrote:when you buy a text book in the 80's pluto was a plant and in the 2020's pluto is an exoplanet, same with the koran. it came after the gita and bible and it copy all their content and made flips to some of the life teaching that were in those books such as the hindu text say worship cow the koran say kill the cow, bible say wine is blood of christ and them say wine haram. the koran and muslims are cheap knock off of the real god and real teachings.



Do they not then consider the Qur’ân carefully?
Had it been from other than Allâh,
they would surely have found therein many a contradiction.

https://quran.com/4/82



hoss allah is a name derived from the hindu word allat which in sanskrit means devi and moon goddess which is why muslims have to wait on the moon in ramadan and even ramadan has a hindu god in its name. allah and muslims are just knockoffs of other great religions.
Here are some knowledge of a pre-Islamic Arabic Goddess known as “Allat” excavated in Palmyra, Syria etc. “Allat” in Arabic means “Goddess” (“Devi” in Sanskrit). She is frequently called "the Great Goddess" in Greek in multi-lingual inscriptions. According to pre-Islamic mythology from Arabia she is the consort of “Allah” which in Arabic simply means God and was commonly used even before the advent of Islam. She is even thought to be the mother of two gods: Hubal, the primary deity to whom the shrine of Qaba was dedicated before the advent of Islam, and Wadd, a moon-god to whom snakes were believed to be a sacred symbol. Even though little is known about her because all records related to her have been destroyed, it is very interesting that we find a lion sitting next to her which certainly hints some connection with the Hindu Goddess Parvati who is also referred to as Maha Devi (the Great Goddess) and has the lion as her companion according to Hindu mythology. She is the consort of Shiva Mahadeva (the Great God) and is the mother of two gods: Ganesha and Kartikeya. It must be noted that "alla" in Sanskrit means mothe

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby matr1x » September 13th, 2022, 7:07 am

Islam is an aggregate of Abrahamic and South Asia faiths. And it was fine until they gone lost their minds

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » September 13th, 2022, 7:15 am

matr1x wrote:All religions are often placed for criticism and ridicule, why should Islam be given any special treatment?

Now they feel very comfortable using violence to silence criticism and parody. This seems to be because they realize that western cultures retreat. What should happen is that when a terrorist attack happens, 100 mosques go up in flames. Don't come in and do your nonsense


matr1x wrote:And the foolish idea is don't judge a faith by the actions of its ppl. That's the very litmus test of a faith. How the people behave


What religion are you again? You legit sound like a terrorist.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » September 13th, 2022, 7:30 am

daring dragoon wrote:
FrankChag wrote:
daring dragoon wrote:when you buy a text book in the 80's pluto was a plant and in the 2020's pluto is an exoplanet, same with the koran. it came after the gita and bible and it copy all their content and made flips to some of the life teaching that were in those books such as the hindu text say worship cow the koran say kill the cow, bible say wine is blood of christ and them say wine haram. the koran and muslims are cheap knock off of the real god and real teachings.



Do they not then consider the Qur’ân carefully?
Had it been from other than Allâh,
they would surely have found therein many a contradiction.

https://quran.com/4/82



hoss allah is a name derived from the hindu word allat which in sanskrit means devi and moon goddess which is why muslims have to wait on the moon in ramadan and even ramadan has a hindu god in its name. allah and muslims are just knockoffs of other great religions.
Here are some knowledge of a pre-Islamic Arabic Goddess known as “Allat” excavated in Palmyra, Syria etc. “Allat” in Arabic means “Goddess” (“Devi” in Sanskrit). She is frequently called "the Great Goddess" in Greek in multi-lingual inscriptions. According to pre-Islamic mythology from Arabia she is the consort of “Allah” which in Arabic simply means God and was commonly used even before the advent of Islam. She is even thought to be the mother of two gods: Hubal, the primary deity to whom the shrine of Qaba was dedicated before the advent of Islam, and Wadd, a moon-god to whom snakes were believed to be a sacred symbol. Even though little is known about her because all records related to her have been destroyed, it is very interesting that we find a lion sitting next to her which certainly hints some connection with the Hindu Goddess Parvati who is also referred to as Maha Devi (the Great Goddess) and has the lion as her companion according to Hindu mythology. She is the consort of Shiva Mahadeva (the Great God) and is the mother of two gods: Ganesha and Kartikeya. It must be noted that "alla" in Sanskrit means mothe



Hoss... sounds like a overzealous pundit-padawan trying to impress pandiji by appropriation. Where are your references?

All false though. "Allah" is a proper noun for God, the Almighty. This was the case even with the pagan Arabs. From the Arabic, you can break it apart to "al-ilah", meaning The God (definite article "al" meaning the one and only God). The word exists in other Semitic/root/cognate languages including Hebrew (El or Elohim), Aramaic (Elah and Elaha) and Syriac (Elaha).

From your own sources:
Zeki Saritoprak (2006). "Allah". In Oliver Leaman (ed.). The Qur'an: An Encyclopedia. Routledge. p. 34.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » September 13th, 2022, 7:37 am

Dohplaydat wrote:
FrankChag wrote:
Dohplaydat wrote:
FrankChag wrote:
maj. tom wrote:These divine or alien interventions have left no proof for the future to discover...


Hmm...



Expansion of the Universe:

"We built the universe with great might, and We are certainly expanding it."


https://quran.com/51/47
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansion_of_the_universe




The creation of the early universe:

"Then He rose over (Istawa) towards the heaven when it was smoke, and said to it and to the earth: "Come both of you willingly or unwillingly." They both said: "We come willingly."


https://quran.com/41/11
https://www.science.org/content/article ... d-away-fog "About 300,000 years after the big bang, the universe was like a smoke-filled chamber..."




Orbits of the planets:

"And He it is Who has created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, each in an orbit floating/swimming."


https://quran.com/21/33
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliocentrism




Exact stages of the embryo's development (and negation that Adam evolved from an ape):

And indeed We created man (Adam) out of an extract of clay (water and earth). Thereafter We made him (the offspring of Adam) as a Nutfah (mixed drops of the male and female sexual discharge and lodged it) in a safe lodging (womb of the woman). Then We made the Nutfah into a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood), then We made the clot into a little lump of flesh, then We made out of that little lump of flesh bones, then We clothed the bones with flesh, and then We brought it forth as another creation. So Blessed is Allâh, the Best of creators.


https://quran.com/23/12-14
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3068791/ (Human Embryology)




... and we could go on...


Let's pick and choose as the parts are analgous to real science while ignoring everything else. Makes total sense.


Hmm... al-Haytham (d. circa 1040 CE at the age of 75), widely considered as the "first true scientist", was a Muslim polymath (Physics, Math, Astronomy, Anatomy, what we'd call Engineering today, etc). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_al-Haytham This when England was in its Early Medieval period.. decades before the Norman conquest...

But I digress. You were about to say what we are ignoring that doesn't confirm to science...


No, I don't get what you are trying to prove? Are you saying Allah is real and gave them this wisdom through some primitive vague descriptions? Or are you saying that Muslims were one of the more advanced empires back then and made some great discoveries? If it's the latter then I would agree.

However, you should know many empires across the world were the most advanced at some point in history. Right now for the last few centuries the west has been infront but we are definitely seeing a global shift to SE Asia....who maybe in 50 years or so would be substantially ahead of the west (or maybe in a fully globalised world, everyone wins to an extent).



digress. verb. to deviate or wander away from the main topic or purpose in speaking or writing; depart from the principal line of argument, plot, study, etc.


You were saying though, about what we are ignoring that doesn't confirm to science...

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby MG Man » September 13th, 2022, 8:21 am

FrankChag wrote:[size=114]The Creation itself is sufficient a proof for any thinking person...

[color=#076333]

.I stopped reading after that

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby timelapse » September 13th, 2022, 8:32 am

daring dragoon wrote:
FrankChag wrote:
daring dragoon wrote:when you buy a text book in the 80's pluto was a plant and in the 2020's pluto is an exoplanet, same with the koran. it came after the gita and bible and it copy all their content and made flips to some of the life teaching that were in those books such as the hindu text say worship cow the koran say kill the cow, bible say wine is blood of christ and them say wine haram. the koran and muslims are cheap knock off of the real god and real teachings.



Do they not then consider the Qur’ân carefully?
Had it been from other than Allâh,
they would surely have found therein many a contradiction.

https://quran.com/4/82



hoss allah is a name derived from the hindu word allat which in sanskrit means devi and moon goddess which is why muslims have to wait on the moon in ramadan and even ramadan has a hindu god in its name. allah and muslims are just knockoffs of other great religions.
Here are some knowledge of a pre-Islamic Arabic Goddess known as “Allat” excavated in Palmyra, Syria etc. “Allat” in Arabic means “Goddess” (“Devi” in Sanskrit). She is frequently called "the Great Goddess" in Greek in multi-lingual inscriptions. According to pre-Islamic mythology from Arabia she is the consort of “Allah” which in Arabic simply means God and was commonly used even before the advent of Islam. She is even thought to be the mother of two gods: Hubal, the primary deity to whom the shrine of Qaba was dedicated before the advent of Islam, and Wadd, a moon-god to whom snakes were believed to be a sacred symbol. Even though little is known about her because all records related to her have been destroyed, it is very interesting that we find a lion sitting next to her which certainly hints some connection with the Hindu Goddess Parvati who is also referred to as Maha Devi (the Great Goddess) and has the lion as her companion according to Hindu mythology. She is the consort of Shiva Mahadeva (the Great God) and is the mother of two gods: Ganesha and Kartikeya. It must be noted that "alla" in Sanskrit means mothe
This here is a prime example of where God stops and religion starts.
You are just trying to validate your own belief by trying to define who is "more right".
Arguing semantics and origins of words has zero bearing on God and true religion.
Words and written history are the creation of man.Creations of man are where trouble starts.

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