TriniTuner.com  |  Latest Event:  

Forums

The Religion Discussion

this is how we do it.......

Moderator: 3ne2nr Mods

User avatar
death365
Riding on 18's
Posts: 1821
Joined: June 24th, 2013, 2:30 pm
Location: San Juan

Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby death365 » January 13th, 2022, 1:00 pm

i love the old classical hymns/gospel specially jim reeves ... but meh na christian

musical appreciation is literally just that appreciation

Shoots ------ i made the thread 778 now :cry:

Rovin wrote:suppose d person playing d hanuman chalisa not really for religious reasons but simply just likes d song - ever thought of that ?, same way ppl does listen to music from very different religions\cultures\countries cause they simply like d music or melody

if ppl follow everything in whichever religion they in then ppl will not interact with each other & live in peace, everybody will be hyper & discriminating about everything, would u only do business\patronize\interact or be friends with ppl who has same beliefs as u ... imho thats a very sad unfulfilling way to coexist with other humans

User avatar
FrankChag
Riding on 16's
Posts: 1111
Joined: May 9th, 2017, 4:28 pm
Location: W.C.N.S.F

Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » January 13th, 2022, 1:07 pm

timelapse wrote:
FrankChag wrote:
bluefete wrote:
Rovin wrote:ever seen\hear of a muslim store owner in full muslim clothes play d hanuman chalisa in d morning when their store opens ... :) ... only in sweet T&T we have such peaceful respectful living


THIS!! So true.


As a peaceful plural multicultural society, culturally interesting, definitely. Mucho Haram though.

Worshipping anything other than Allah is called 'shirk (actually major shirk, which includes going to see the jinn-man, playing songs for protection, or using artefacts, pictures, talismans, pin-ons, things hanging in your car etc for "protection"); This is a fundamental principle, which, if you knowingly do (ie, you really believe there's some power in these things to protect you), you take yourself out of Islam, ie, you're no longer a Muslim, no matter how much Muslim clothes you wear. If this is a true story, someone should gently let her know the haram-ness of it. She probably doesn't know. Reciting the Ayyatul Kursi that we learnt as children (Quran Chap 2 Verse 255) is sufficient. https://quran.com/2/255


It really have jinn men out there? I always thought that was an urban legend while I was in asja.
Dem fellas hadda be real undercover.

Also Frank, I not trying to be chuppid eh, I just asking.What if the reason the guy playing Hanuman Chalisa is just to be neighbourly,not that he actually believes in it.Or for the comfort of his customers like the whole fiasco with Price Club selling puja items?
Is it still a sin if he doesn't believe in it?



I don't know the answer that one Lapse, except maybe:

* we should generally have good thoughts/opinions (husn udh-dhann) concerning our brothers (so maybe he doesn't know)

* Actions will be judged (by Allah) by your intentions (Hadith #1 in Sahih al-Bukhari)

* ".. Help you one another in Al-Birr and At-Taqwâ (virtue, righteousness and piety); but do not help one another in sin and transgression. And fear Allâh. Verily, Allâh is Severe in punishment. " https://quran.com/5/2




bluefete wrote:Jinn is a serious thing in Islam.
http://newmuslimessentials.com/angels--jinn.html



Yup. The devil was a jinn and not a "fallen angel". https://quran.com/18/50. Angels are created infallible and do not disobey God. Iblis/Shaytaan/The Devil (may Allah's curse be with him), used to lime with them, until he disobeyed God, and was jealous that Allah created Adam from clay, but better than him.

bluefete
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 13258
Joined: November 12th, 2008, 10:56 pm
Location: POS

Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby bluefete » January 13th, 2022, 1:45 pm

FrankChag wrote:
timelapse wrote:
FrankChag wrote:
bluefete wrote:
Rovin wrote:ever seen\hear of a muslim store owner in full muslim clothes play d hanuman chalisa in d morning when their store opens ... :) ... only in sweet T&T we have such peaceful respectful living


THIS!! So true.


As a peaceful plural multicultural society, culturally interesting, definitely. Mucho Haram though.

Worshipping anything other than Allah is called 'shirk (actually major shirk, which includes going to see the jinn-man, playing songs for protection, or using artefacts, pictures, talismans, pin-ons, things hanging in your car etc for "protection"); This is a fundamental principle, which, if you knowingly do (ie, you really believe there's some power in these things to protect you), you take yourself out of Islam, ie, you're no longer a Muslim, no matter how much Muslim clothes you wear. If this is a true story, someone should gently let her know the haram-ness of it. She probably doesn't know. Reciting the Ayyatul Kursi that we learnt as children (Quran Chap 2 Verse 255) is sufficient. https://quran.com/2/255


It really have jinn men out there? I always thought that was an urban legend while I was in asja.
Dem fellas hadda be real undercover.

Also Frank, I not trying to be chuppid eh, I just asking.What if the reason the guy playing Hanuman Chalisa is just to be neighbourly,not that he actually believes in it.Or for the comfort of his customers like the whole fiasco with Price Club selling puja items?
Is it still a sin if he doesn't believe in it?


I don't know the answer that one Lapse, except maybe:

* we should generally have good thoughts/opinions (husn udh-dhann) concerning our brothers (so maybe he doesn't know)

* Actions will be judged (by Allah) by your intentions (Hadith #1 in Sahih al-Bukhari)

* ".. Help you one another in Al-Birr and At-Taqwâ (virtue, righteousness and piety); but do not help one another in sin and transgression. And fear Allâh. Verily, Allâh is Severe in punishment. " https://quran.com/5/2




bluefete wrote:Jinn is a serious thing in Islam.
http://newmuslimessentials.com/angels--jinn.html



Yup. The devil was a jinn and not a "fallen angel". https://quran.com/18/50. Angels are created infallible and do not disobey God. Iblis/Shaytaan/The Devil (may Allah's curse be with him), used to lime with them, until he disobeyed God, and was jealous that Allah created Adam from clay, but better than him.


Very interesting perspectives. Do jinns affect people? Is there a Muslim "obeahman or woman" (not meant in a bad way, eh) (imam / maulana etc) who can "help" if someone is affected by a jinn?

User avatar
FrankChag
Riding on 16's
Posts: 1111
Joined: May 9th, 2017, 4:28 pm
Location: W.C.N.S.F

Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » January 13th, 2022, 2:59 pm

bluefete wrote:
FrankChag wrote:
timelapse wrote:
FrankChag wrote:
bluefete wrote:
Rovin wrote:ever seen\hear of a muslim store owner in full muslim clothes play d hanuman chalisa in d morning when their store opens ... :) ... only in sweet T&T we have such peaceful respectful living


THIS!! So true.


As a peaceful plural multicultural society, culturally interesting, definitely. Mucho Haram though.

Worshipping anything other than Allah is called 'shirk (actually major shirk, which includes going to see the jinn-man, playing songs for protection, or using artefacts, pictures, talismans, pin-ons, things hanging in your car etc for "protection"); This is a fundamental principle, which, if you knowingly do (ie, you really believe there's some power in these things to protect you), you take yourself out of Islam, ie, you're no longer a Muslim, no matter how much Muslim clothes you wear. If this is a true story, someone should gently let her know the haram-ness of it. She probably doesn't know. Reciting the Ayyatul Kursi that we learnt as children (Quran Chap 2 Verse 255) is sufficient. https://quran.com/2/255


It really have jinn men out there? I always thought that was an urban legend while I was in asja.
Dem fellas hadda be real undercover.

Also Frank, I not trying to be chuppid eh, I just asking.What if the reason the guy playing Hanuman Chalisa is just to be neighbourly,not that he actually believes in it.Or for the comfort of his customers like the whole fiasco with Price Club selling puja items?
Is it still a sin if he doesn't believe in it?


I don't know the answer that one Lapse, except maybe:

* we should generally have good thoughts/opinions (husn udh-dhann) concerning our brothers (so maybe he doesn't know)

* Actions will be judged (by Allah) by your intentions (Hadith #1 in Sahih al-Bukhari)

* ".. Help you one another in Al-Birr and At-Taqwâ (virtue, righteousness and piety); but do not help one another in sin and transgression. And fear Allâh. Verily, Allâh is Severe in punishment. " https://quran.com/5/2




bluefete wrote:Jinn is a serious thing in Islam.
http://newmuslimessentials.com/angels--jinn.html



Yup. The devil was a jinn and not a "fallen angel". https://quran.com/18/50. Angels are created infallible and do not disobey God. Iblis/Shaytaan/The Devil (may Allah's curse be with him), used to lime with them, until he disobeyed God, and was jealous that Allah created Adam from clay, but better than him.


Very interesting perspectives. Do jinns affect people? Is there a Muslim "obeahman or woman" (not meant in a bad way, eh) (imam / maulana etc) who can "help" if someone is affected by a jinn?


You can seek your own protection or cure (Ruqyah, ie, healing) from God DIRECTLY, without needing any intermediary person or thing. Reciting the Quran is a cure, especially Surah al Faatihaah (Chapter 1) https://quran.com/1/, the Ayutulul Kursi https://quran.com/2/255, and the last two short chapters Surahs Falaq and Naas https://quran.com/113 and https://quran.com/114. And reciting Surah Baqarah (https://quran.com/2) in the homes, etc wards off the evil jinns.

Only if the person is unable to pray to God for themselves, like small children, or the elderly, and then we pray for their protection or healing or guidance for them, but generally a person should ask this of God himself, and not think he needs someone else because "he's not pious enough" or nonsense like that.

User avatar
FrankChag
Riding on 16's
Posts: 1111
Joined: May 9th, 2017, 4:28 pm
Location: W.C.N.S.F

Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » January 13th, 2022, 3:51 pm

Phone Surgeon wrote:real street jamaat.jpg

it stemmed from this

price club responded and tell them hdmc, they serve everyone in Trinidad no matter what the religion of their owners are

inshan had a response to it on one of his shows, you could probably look for it online

but he saying that if you're a muslim you aren't allowed to sell or promote or profit from the sale of anyhting that has to do with other religions

as a business you can do what you want, but as a muslim you cant

see if yuh cud get a copy of this book and take it in


51JEE+RkM+L.jpg

basically it says that islam is like different rungs on a ladder

the lowest rungs are the muslims who go about their daily lives, going to mosque, not eating pork, living by basic islamic teachings

the higher you go is where the imams come in where they try to teach islam and convert others etc

the highest rungs are where you are willing to kill infidels (non muslims)



The priceclub matter is really very easy:

Under Trinidad law, you can sell idols and other religious artefacts.
As a Muslim however, it is haram to do so and profit from it.

If you're a shareholder in a company whose profits come from (wholly or partially) haram things (sale of murtis in this case), then that part of your income as a shareholder/director is haram. And you'll have to square that with your Lord at some point.

The argument that X is only a shareholder or a director in a company does not track, as i) as a shareholder or director by choice and action you choose to receive haram income, and ii) as a director with influence on the board, depending on type of directorship of course, you would have either an influence or direct oversight on what is sold in your store. So as a Muslim you're still accountable.

The argument that we're a plural society and your accommodating your customers does not fly either, as AFAIK, murtis are not in short supply, and can be purchased elsewhere; and the government is not forcing you to sell religious items.

(Ruling: https://www.alifta.gov.sa/En/IftaContents/IbnBaz/Pages/FatawaDetails.aspx?cultStr=en&View=Page&PageID=3609&PageNo=1&BookID=14)


As for that book Son of Hamas by Mosab whoever,.... if it is as you've described, then rubbish. Like a child guessing at something he doesn't understand. Unless it's a look at Shia-ism; then, still rubbish. Because shias are war-mongerers who changed the religion sent by Allaah to suit themselves.

There is only one Islaam, and the same rules apply to everyone without exception. And there are no such grades or levels in Islaam, other than piety, which is judged and apportioned by Allaah the Most High.

"We raise whom We will in degrees. Certainly your Lord is All-Wise, All-Knowing." https://quran.com/6/83
"They are in varying grades with Allâh, and Allâh is All-Seer of what they do. " https://quran.com/3/163


And Allah knows best.


bluefete
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 13258
Joined: November 12th, 2008, 10:56 pm
Location: POS

Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby bluefete » January 13th, 2022, 5:30 pm

FrankChag wrote:

bluefete wrote:Jinn is a serious thing in Islam.
http://newmuslimessentials.com/angels--jinn.html



Yup. The devil was a jinn and not a "fallen angel". https://quran.com/18/50. Angels are created infallible and do not disobey God. Iblis/Shaytaan/The Devil (may Allah's curse be with him), used to lime with them, until he disobeyed God, and was jealous that Allah created Adam from clay, but better than him.


Very interesting perspectives. Do jinns affect people? Is there a Muslim "obeahman or woman" (not meant in a bad way, eh) (imam / maulana etc) who can "help" if someone is affected by a jinn?

You can seek your own protection or cure (Ruqyah, ie, healing) from God DIRECTLY, without needing any intermediary person or thing. Reciting the Quran is a cure, especially Surah al Faatihaah (Chapter 1) https://quran.com/1/, the Ayutulul Kursi https://quran.com/2/255, and the last two short chapters Surahs Falaq and Naas https://quran.com/113 and https://quran.com/114. And reciting Surah Baqarah (https://quran.com/2) in the homes, etc wards off the evil jinns.

Only if the person is unable to pray to God for themselves, like small children, or the elderly, and then we pray for their protection or healing or guidance for them, but generally a person should ask this of God himself, and not think he needs someone else because "he's not pious enough" or nonsense like that.


Those verses are akin to the Psalms that Christians use for similar events.

Interesting to see in the Surah al Faatihaah (Chapter 1) the 2 interpretations. One seems to be updated because I was taught that the Holy Qu'ran has no variation whatsoever.

User avatar
FrankChag
Riding on 16's
Posts: 1111
Joined: May 9th, 2017, 4:28 pm
Location: W.C.N.S.F

Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » January 13th, 2022, 5:57 pm

bluefete wrote:
FrankChag wrote:

bluefete wrote:Jinn is a serious thing in Islam.
http://newmuslimessentials.com/angels--jinn.html



Yup. The devil was a jinn and not a "fallen angel". https://quran.com/18/50. Angels are created infallible and do not disobey God. Iblis/Shaytaan/The Devil (may Allah's curse be with him), used to lime with them, until he disobeyed God, and was jealous that Allah created Adam from clay, but better than him.


Very interesting perspectives. Do jinns affect people? Is there a Muslim "obeahman or woman" (not meant in a bad way, eh) (imam / maulana etc) who can "help" if someone is affected by a jinn?

You can seek your own protection or cure (Ruqyah, ie, healing) from God DIRECTLY, without needing any intermediary person or thing. Reciting the Quran is a cure, especially Surah al Faatihaah (Chapter 1) https://quran.com/1/, the Ayutulul Kursi https://quran.com/2/255, and the last two short chapters Surahs Falaq and Naas https://quran.com/113 and https://quran.com/114. And reciting Surah Baqarah (https://quran.com/2) in the homes, etc wards off the evil jinns.

Only if the person is unable to pray to God for themselves, like small children, or the elderly, and then we pray for their protection or healing or guidance for them, but generally a person should ask this of God himself, and not think he needs someone else because "he's not pious enough" or nonsense like that.


Those verses are akin to the Psalms that Christians use for similar events.

Interesting to see in the Surah al Faatihaah (Chapter 1) the 2 interpretations. One seems to be updated because I was taught that the Holy Qu'ran has no variation whatsoever.


The "Quran" is the Arabic Quran only, written and recited in Arabic (as it was revealed to the Messenger Muhammad, sal Allahu alayhi was sallam). Everything else are translations into languages. The Hilali English translation is very verbose and clear (Arabic to English is not a 1-to-1 translation; Arabic is a richer language), but other translations are there for historical purposes I guess. No more old english 'thou' and 'art' and stuff.

There are some eng translations with theological mistranslations or figurative interpretations (like instead of God's Face (Waj in Arabic, which means Face), some translators rathered "Countenance", but those are more theistic, high-brow stuff. Example: https://quran.com/28/88
Last edited by FrankChag on January 13th, 2022, 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Chimera
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 19194
Joined: October 11th, 2009, 4:06 pm

Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby Chimera » January 13th, 2022, 6:02 pm

Good thing we are blessed to have frankchag here. As he was there in the beginning and refilled Allah's pot of ink as he was writing the Koran and as such he knows all this to be true.

User avatar
FrankChag
Riding on 16's
Posts: 1111
Joined: May 9th, 2017, 4:28 pm
Location: W.C.N.S.F

Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » January 13th, 2022, 6:17 pm

Phone Surgeon wrote:Good thing we are blessed to have frankchag here. As he was there in the beginning and refilled Allah's pot of ink as he was writing the Koran and as such he knows all this to be true.


Alhamdulillah, I've found no Way clearer than Islaam.
Such is its clarity and brilliance, that its night is like its day.
And it is in itself a reflection of the One who sent it.
And I pray that my heart is forever knotted on to it.



"With power did We construct the heaven. Verily, We are Able to extend the vastness of space thereof." https://quran.com/51/47

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansion_of_the_universe

abducted
I LUV THIS PLACE
Posts: 939
Joined: April 10th, 2007, 9:35 pm

Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby abducted » January 13th, 2022, 11:04 pm

FrankChag wrote:
bluefete wrote:
Rovin wrote:ever seen\hear of a muslim store owner in full muslim clothes play d hanuman chalisa in d morning when their store opens ... :) ... only in sweet T&T we have such peaceful respectful living


THIS!! So true.


As a peaceful plural multicultural society, culturally interesting, definitely. Mucho Haram though.

Worshipping anything other than Allah is called 'shirk (actually major shirk, which includes going to see the jinn-man, playing songs for protection, or using artefacts, pictures, talismans, pin-ons, things hanging in your car etc for "protection"); This is a fundamental principle, which, if you knowingly do (ie, you really believe there's some power in these things to protect you), you take yourself out of Islam, ie, you're no longer a Muslim, no matter how much Muslim clothes you wear. If this is a true story, someone should gently let her know the haram-ness of it. She probably doesn't know. Reciting the Ayyatul Kursi that we learnt as children (Quran Chap 2 Verse 255) is sufficient. https://quran.com/2/255

FrankChag, do you believe a Hindu song, or a deya, or a picture of Santa Claus, have any power or ability to do anything supernatural? What about a national anthem, or a song on the radio?

User avatar
FrankChag
Riding on 16's
Posts: 1111
Joined: May 9th, 2017, 4:28 pm
Location: W.C.N.S.F

Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » January 14th, 2022, 12:37 am

abducted wrote:
FrankChag wrote:
bluefete wrote:
Rovin wrote:ever seen\hear of a muslim store owner in full muslim clothes play d hanuman chalisa in d morning when their store opens ... :) ... only in sweet T&T we have such peaceful respectful living


THIS!! So true.


As a peaceful plural multicultural society, culturally interesting, definitely. Mucho Haram though.

Worshipping anything other than Allah is called 'shirk (actually major shirk, which includes going to see the jinn-man, playing songs for protection, or using artefacts, pictures, talismans, pin-ons, things hanging in your car etc for "protection"); This is a fundamental principle, which, if you knowingly do (ie, you really believe there's some power in these things to protect you), you take yourself out of Islam, ie, you're no longer a Muslim, no matter how much Muslim clothes you wear. If this is a true story, someone should gently let her know the haram-ness of it. She probably doesn't know. Reciting the Ayyatul Kursi that we learnt as children (Quran Chap 2 Verse 255) is sufficient. https://quran.com/2/255

FrankChag, do you believe a Hindu song, or a deya, or a picture of Santa Claus, have any power or ability to do anything supernatural? What about a national anthem, or a song on the radio?


Religious songs, artefacts, a person's speech and actions in general, belief in the heart... are all aspects of worship. Worship is praise (hamd) and prayer and supplication (salaah, ibaadah and dua), seeking help, protection, etc. performed by the person. And so there is nothing truly deserving of directing that worship towards... except God, alone**. I mean, everytime we perform salaat we say chap1 of the Quran, which includes "You (Alone) we worship, and You (Alone) we ask for help (for each and everything)." https://quran.com/1/5

If your actions are worship, i.e. you intend by those actions help, protection, sustenance, praise, etc.. and you direct those actions at anything other than God, then this is "shirk" (see post above; roughly translated to blasphemy, but it's more than that). So for a Muslim, believing that playing a song will protect you, or hanging something in your car will protect you, that is shirk, and nullifies you as a Muslim if you do it knowingly (ie, you're not a Muslim anymore, until you say your shahadah again), even if it 'works' and it runs the jinns from your home (these are tricks of the Shaytaan, which is a whole other matter). {{Nb, this only applies if you know and understand the seriousness of the matter; a lot of Muslims, unfortunately, do not know that these things amount to shirk, like perhaps the store-owner above. But then again, you're on the brink, because these are things, as a Muslim, you should not be ignorant of.}}

Also, the acts of worship in Islaam, must have some basis in the Quran and the Sunnah, in terms of the time, place and frequency they are performed, or else it is rejected (Like you can't perform Hajj anytime you want, only in the Islamic month of Dhul-hijj). All other actions (which is the majority of everything else you do in your life), are judged by halaal or haram. So daily activities that are not strictly speaking part of worship (driving for example), do not land you up in the category of shirk (like songs on the radio). Singing songs however is haram, but it isn't shirk (blasphemy), unless the song itself is blasphemous.


**This btw is part a) of the 'shahadah' people say to become a Muslim: "La illlaha illAllah": there is no (lillah) God (deserving of worship in truth) except Allaah (alone). The part (b) is "Muhammadur rasulullah" and Muhammad salallahu alayhi was sallam is the (Rasul) Messenger of Allah.



Evidences from the Quran for the above

  • "And I (Allâh) created not the jinn and mankind except that they should worship Me (Alone)." https://quran.com/51/56
  • "Worship Allâh and join none with Him (in worship)" https://quran.com/4/36
  • "All the praises and thanks be to Allâh, the Lord of the ‘Âlamîn (mankind, jinn and all that exists)." https://quran.com/1/2
  • "And the mosques are for Allâh (Alone): so invoke not anyone along with Allâh." https://quran.com/72/18
  • "And whoever invokes (or worships), besides Allâh, any other ilâh (god), of whom he has no proof; then his reckoning is only with his Lord. Surely! Al-Kâfirûn (the disbelievers in Allâh and in the Oneness of Allâh, polytheists, pagans, idolaters) will not be successful." https://quran.com/23/117
  • "And your Lord said: "Invoke Me, [i.e. believe in My Oneness (Islâmic Monotheism) and ask Me for anything] I will respond to your (invocation). Verily! Those who scorn My worship [i.e. do not invoke Me, and do not believe in My Oneness, (Islâmic Monotheism)] they will surely enter Hell in humiliation!" https://quran.com/40/60
  • "Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): "I am only a man like you. It has been revealed to me that your Ilâh (God) is One Ilâh (God - i.e. Allâh). So whoever hopes for the Meeting with his Lord, let him work righteousness and associate none as a partner in the worship of his Lord." https://quran.com/18/110
  • "Say: "I seek refuge with (Allâh), the Lord of the daybreak," https://quran.com/113/1
  • "Say: "I seek refuge with (Allâh) the Lord of mankind," https://quran.com/114/1
  • "Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): "Verily, my Salât (prayer), my sacrifice, my living, and my dying are for Allâh, the Lord of the ‘Âlamîn (mankind, jinn and all that exists)." https://quran.com/6/162


tl;dr:
-Don't commit shirk: direct all your worship towards Allaah alone
-Don't commit sins, stay away from haram (forbidden) actions: i.e., for everything else other than worship, keep it halaal.



FIGURE 1. Example of things ppl hang in their car for "protection"... There is no basis for these things, as they have no power in them.


Image

User avatar
death365
Riding on 18's
Posts: 1821
Joined: June 24th, 2013, 2:30 pm
Location: San Juan

Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby death365 » January 14th, 2022, 6:41 am

Thank God that I am smart enough to understand that all religions and faiths pray to God. No matter who or what he/she/it is called.


So therefore in your opinion... a good Christian/Buddhist/Hindu/orissa person serving their religion all there life... going to hell cause they not follow Islam?

If the answer is yes... I am very sorry for you ...
FrankChag wrote:
abducted wrote:
FrankChag wrote:
bluefete wrote:
Rovin wrote:ever seen\hear of a muslim store owner in full muslim clothes play d hanuman chalisa in d morning when their store opens ... :) ... only in sweet T&T we have such peaceful respectful living


THIS!! So true.


As a peaceful plural multicultural society, culturally interesting, definitely. Mucho Haram though.

Worshipping anything other than Allah is called 'shirk (actually major shirk, which includes going to see the jinn-man, playing songs for protection, or using artefacts, pictures, talismans, pin-ons, things hanging in your car etc for "protection"); This is a fundamental principle, which, if you knowingly do (ie, you really believe there's some power in these things to protect you), you take yourself out of Islam, ie, you're no longer a Muslim, no matter how much Muslim clothes you wear. If this is a true story, someone should gently let her know the haram-ness of it. She probably doesn't know. Reciting the Ayyatul Kursi that we learnt as children (Quran Chap 2 Verse 255) is sufficient. https://quran.com/2/255

FrankChag, do you believe a Hindu song, or a deya, or a picture of Santa Claus, have any power or ability to do anything supernatural? What about a national anthem, or a song on the radio?


Religious songs, artefacts, a person's speech and actions in general, belief in the heart... are all aspects of worship. Worship is praise (hamd) and prayer and supplication (salaah, ibaadah and dua), seeking help, protection, etc. performed by the person. And so there is nothing truly deserving of directing that worship towards... except God, alone**. I mean, everytime we perform salaat we say chap1 of the Quran, which includes "You (Alone) we worship, and You (Alone) we ask for help (for each and everything)." https://quran.com/1/5

If your actions are worship, i.e. you intend by those actions help, protection, sustenance, praise, etc.. and you direct those actions at anything other than God, then this is "shirk" (see post above; roughly translated to blasphemy, but it's more than that). So for a Muslim, believing that playing a song will protect you, or hanging something in your car will protect you, that is shirk, and nullifies you as a Muslim if you do it knowingly (ie, you're not a Muslim anymore, until you say your shahadah again), even if it 'works' and it runs the jinns from your home (these are tricks of the Shaytaan, which is a whole other matter). {{Nb, this only applies if you know and understand the seriousness of the matter; a lot of Muslims, unfortunately, do not know that these things amount to shirk, like perhaps the store-owner above. But then again, you're on the brink, because these are things, as a Muslim, you should not be ignorant of.}}

Also, the acts of worship in Islaam, must have some basis in the Quran and the Sunnah, in terms of the time, place and frequency they are performed, or else it is rejected (Like you can't perform Hajj anytime you want, only in the Islamic month of Dhul-hijj). All other actions (which is the majority of everything else you do in your life), are judged by halaal or haram. So daily activities that are not strictly speaking part of worship (driving for example), do not land you up in the category of shirk (like songs on the radio). Singing songs however is haram, but it isn't shirk (blasphemy), unless the song itself is blasphemous.


**This btw is part a) of the 'shahadah' people say to become a Muslim: "La illlaha illAllah": there is no (lillah) God (deserving of worship in truth) except Allaah (alone). The part (b) is "Muhammadur rasulullah" and Muhammad salallahu alayhi was sallam is the (Rasul) Messenger of Allah.



Evidences from the Quran for the above

  • "And I (Allâh) created not the jinn and mankind except that they should worship Me (Alone)." https://quran.com/51/56
  • "Worship Allâh and join none with Him (in worship)" https://quran.com/4/36
  • "All the praises and thanks be to Allâh, the Lord of the ‘Âlamîn (mankind, jinn and all that exists)." https://quran.com/1/2
  • "And the mosques are for Allâh (Alone): so invoke not anyone along with Allâh." https://quran.com/72/18
  • "And whoever invokes (or worships), besides Allâh, any other ilâh (god), of whom he has no proof; then his reckoning is only with his Lord. Surely! Al-Kâfirûn (the disbelievers in Allâh and in the Oneness of Allâh, polytheists, pagans, idolaters) will not be successful." https://quran.com/23/117
  • "And your Lord said: "Invoke Me, [i.e. believe in My Oneness (Islâmic Monotheism) and ask Me for anything] I will respond to your (invocation). Verily! Those who scorn My worship [i.e. do not invoke Me, and do not believe in My Oneness, (Islâmic Monotheism)] they will surely enter Hell in humiliation!" https://quran.com/40/60
  • "Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): "I am only a man like you. It has been revealed to me that your Ilâh (God) is One Ilâh (God - i.e. Allâh). So whoever hopes for the Meeting with his Lord, let him work righteousness and associate none as a partner in the worship of his Lord." https://quran.com/18/110
  • "Say: "I seek refuge with (Allâh), the Lord of the daybreak," https://quran.com/113/1
  • "Say: "I seek refuge with (Allâh) the Lord of mankind," https://quran.com/114/1
  • "Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): "Verily, my Salât (prayer), my sacrifice, my living, and my dying are for Allâh, the Lord of the ‘Âlamîn (mankind, jinn and all that exists)." https://quran.com/6/162


tl;dr:
-Don't commit shirk: direct all your worship towards Allaah alone
-Don't commit sins, stay away from haram (forbidden) actions: i.e., for everything else other than worship, keep it halaal.



FIGURE 1. Example of things ppl hang in their car for "protection"... There is no basis for these things, as they have no power in them.


Image

alfa
Shifting into 6th
Posts: 2087
Joined: January 19th, 2015, 4:15 pm

Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby alfa » January 14th, 2022, 6:59 am

All religions have a similar belief. How many times we've heard Christians say if you don't accept Jesus you're damned? What's important is to live with each other in the present and don't worry too much where the other guy going in the afterlife when you don't know where you yourself is going. I like listening to lil Xmas songs and thing even some old time Indian songs, not sure which are bhajans and which are film songs cuz all sound like rum tunes anyway but won't play any loudly in public due to the same reason frank Chag listed. I personally don't believe 4 or 5 billion people are going to hell simply because they are not Muslim or Christian or whatever but I try to stick to my religious beliefs

User avatar
timelapse
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 8113
Joined: June 20th, 2012, 7:13 pm

Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby timelapse » January 14th, 2022, 7:18 am

alfa wrote:All religions have a similar belief. How many times we've heard Christians say if you don't accept Jesus you're damned? What's important is to live with each other in the present and don't worry too much where the other guy going in the afterlife when you don't know where you yourself is going. I like listening to lil Xmas songs and thing even some old time Indian songs, not sure which are bhajans and which are film songs cuz all sound like rum tunes anyway but won't play any loudly in public due to the same reason frank Chag listed. I personally don't believe 4 or 5 billion people are going to hell simply because they are not Muslim or Christian or whatever but I try to stick to my religious beliefs
Only Judeaic religions have that belief.

Hindus/Buddhists acknowledge God in every aspect of creation and see God in everything.
If God is here,there and everywhere, there cannot be a place where God is not present.
There is no concept of blasphemy or Un-believer in Hinduism.Whether you believe in God or not ,does not affect God.
Hindu perspective: not criticizing anybody, just stating a perspective

bluefete
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 13258
Joined: November 12th, 2008, 10:56 pm
Location: POS

Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby bluefete » January 14th, 2022, 8:41 am

FrankChag wrote: Singing songs however is haram, but it isn't shirk (blasphemy), unless the song itself is blasphemous.


Make sense of this for me please.

What kind of songs? Songs to Allah? Pop songs? Non-religious islamic songs?

What about playing of certain musical instruments?

Is playing the steelpan haram?

Are there some drums you cannot play because of the material used?

User avatar
d.d.s.
Sweet on this forum
Posts: 366
Joined: May 30th, 2009, 1:13 pm

Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby d.d.s. » January 14th, 2022, 8:45 am

death365 wrote:Thank God that I am smart enough to understand that all religions and faiths pray to God. No matter who or what he/she/it is called.


So therefore in your opinion... a good Christian/Buddhist/Hindu/orissa person serving their religion all there life... going to hell cause they not follow Islam?

If the answer is yes... I am very sorry for you ...
FrankChag wrote:
abducted wrote:
FrankChag wrote:
bluefete wrote:
Rovin wrote:ever seen\hear of a muslim store owner in full muslim clothes play d hanuman chalisa in d morning when their store opens ... :) ... only in sweet T&T we have such peaceful respectful living


THIS!! So true.


As a peaceful plural multicultural society, culturally interesting, definitely. Mucho Haram though.

Worshipping anything other than Allah is called 'shirk (actually major shirk, which includes going to see the jinn-man, playing songs for protection, or using artefacts, pictures, talismans, pin-ons, things hanging in your car etc for "protection"); This is a fundamental principle, which, if you knowingly do (ie, you really believe there's some power in these things to protect you), you take yourself out of Islam, ie, you're no longer a Muslim, no matter how much Muslim clothes you wear. If this is a true story, someone should gently let her know the haram-ness of it. She probably doesn't know. Reciting the Ayyatul Kursi that we learnt as children (Quran Chap 2 Verse 255) is sufficient. https://quran.com/2/255

FrankChag, do you believe a Hindu song, or a deya, or a picture of Santa Claus, have any power or ability to do anything supernatural? What about a national anthem, or a song on the radio?


Religious songs, artefacts, a person's speech and actions in general, belief in the heart... are all aspects of worship. Worship is praise (hamd) and prayer and supplication (salaah, ibaadah and dua), seeking help, protection, etc. performed by the person. And so there is nothing truly deserving of directing that worship towards... except God, alone**. I mean, everytime we perform salaat we say chap1 of the Quran, which includes "You (Alone) we worship, and You (Alone) we ask for help (for each and everything)." https://quran.com/1/5

If your actions are worship, i.e. you intend by those actions help, protection, sustenance, praise, etc.. and you direct those actions at anything other than God, then this is "shirk" (see post above; roughly translated to blasphemy, but it's more than that). So for a Muslim, believing that playing a song will protect you, or hanging something in your car will protect you, that is shirk, and nullifies you as a Muslim if you do it knowingly (ie, you're not a Muslim anymore, until you say your shahadah again), even if it 'works' and it runs the jinns from your home (these are tricks of the Shaytaan, which is a whole other matter). {{Nb, this only applies if you know and understand the seriousness of the matter; a lot of Muslims, unfortunately, do not know that these things amount to shirk, like perhaps the store-owner above. But then again, you're on the brink, because these are things, as a Muslim, you should not be ignorant of.}}

Also, the acts of worship in Islaam, must have some basis in the Quran and the Sunnah, in terms of the time, place and frequency they are performed, or else it is rejected (Like you can't perform Hajj anytime you want, only in the Islamic month of Dhul-hijj). All other actions (which is the majority of everything else you do in your life), are judged by halaal or haram. So daily activities that are not strictly speaking part of worship (driving for example), do not land you up in the category of shirk (like songs on the radio). Singing songs however is haram, but it isn't shirk (blasphemy), unless the song itself is blasphemous.


**This btw is part a) of the 'shahadah' people say to become a Muslim: "La illlaha illAllah": there is no (lillah) God (deserving of worship in truth) except Allaah (alone). The part (b) is "Muhammadur rasulullah" and Muhammad salallahu alayhi was sallam is the (Rasul) Messenger of Allah.



Evidences from the Quran for the above

  • "And I (Allâh) created not the jinn and mankind except that they should worship Me (Alone)." https://quran.com/51/56
  • "Worship Allâh and join none with Him (in worship)" https://quran.com/4/36
  • "All the praises and thanks be to Allâh, the Lord of the ‘Âlamîn (mankind, jinn and all that exists)." https://quran.com/1/2
  • "And the mosques are for Allâh (Alone): so invoke not anyone along with Allâh." https://quran.com/72/18
  • "And whoever invokes (or worships), besides Allâh, any other ilâh (god), of whom he has no proof; then his reckoning is only with his Lord. Surely! Al-Kâfirûn (the disbelievers in Allâh and in the Oneness of Allâh, polytheists, pagans, idolaters) will not be successful." https://quran.com/23/117
  • "And your Lord said: "Invoke Me, [i.e. believe in My Oneness (Islâmic Monotheism) and ask Me for anything] I will respond to your (invocation). Verily! Those who scorn My worship [i.e. do not invoke Me, and do not believe in My Oneness, (Islâmic Monotheism)] they will surely enter Hell in humiliation!" https://quran.com/40/60
  • "Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): "I am only a man like you. It has been revealed to me that your Ilâh (God) is One Ilâh (God - i.e. Allâh). So whoever hopes for the Meeting with his Lord, let him work righteousness and associate none as a partner in the worship of his Lord." https://quran.com/18/110
  • "Say: "I seek refuge with (Allâh), the Lord of the daybreak," https://quran.com/113/1
  • "Say: "I seek refuge with (Allâh) the Lord of mankind," https://quran.com/114/1
  • "Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): "Verily, my Salât (prayer), my sacrifice, my living, and my dying are for Allâh, the Lord of the ‘Âlamîn (mankind, jinn and all that exists)." https://quran.com/6/162


tl;dr:
-Don't commit shirk: direct all your worship towards Allaah alone
-Don't commit sins, stay away from haram (forbidden) actions: i.e., for everything else other than worship, keep it halaal.



FIGURE 1. Example of things ppl hang in their car for "protection"... There is no basis for these things, as they have no power in them.


Image
Reminds of a Muslim funeral I attended. The Imam was saying that upon dying, everyone's soul would have to cross a bridge to which lies a fiery depth below. No scene in that as most religions, if not all, has some type judgement day. He goes on to say that only believers would be able to pass (though not all will easy) and all non-believers (shirks) would perish below. He then basically shifted the entire proceeding to knock the "shirks" present in the funeral. Many of us were surprise at how frank he was and you could tell that the deceased family were embarrassed for their non-muslim relatives and friends present.

I understand that it was an Islamic funeral and that's their (or some) belief but why choose to openly berate others? I'm positive he and his family would've had to and in the future continue to interact with those type of people for businesses, services, etc? If you so strongly believe and preach that, why would you jeopardize yourself by associating with them?

Chimera
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 19194
Joined: October 11th, 2009, 4:06 pm

Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby Chimera » January 14th, 2022, 9:38 am

Non muslims = infidels = will burn in the fires of hell

More islamic points if you send them there faster

User avatar
zoom rader
TunerGod
Posts: 27300
Joined: April 22nd, 2003, 12:39 pm
Location: Grand Cayman

Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby zoom rader » January 14th, 2022, 10:40 am

Religion is a hoax especially the Christian churches who have killed the most ppl in history of the world. Nearly all wars was started buy these good Christian.

Now these Christian idiots put the blame on Islam

Chimera
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 19194
Joined: October 11th, 2009, 4:06 pm

Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby Chimera » January 14th, 2022, 11:47 am

hear this question frank

i see another user post in a next thread how he have witco shares and the government has witco shares and plenty pension funds have witco shares


whats the scene with that as a muslim?
you not allowed to invest in any company that benefits from the sale of ciggs? because smoking is haram

what that mean if you benefiting from any pension plan that gets a portion of their money from shares in witco ?

what about NIS /Pensions, considering the government have shares and profits from witco

should muslims refuse their pensions ?

enlighten us please

User avatar
d.d.s.
Sweet on this forum
Posts: 366
Joined: May 30th, 2009, 1:13 pm

Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby d.d.s. » January 14th, 2022, 11:58 am

From the folks in my circle, they're not suppose to receive (and I think pay) interest. Zero interest accounts and well credit card is a scene lol. But their parents do accept NIS / pension because they're "entitled" to that.

Taking up a job in a company that sells "haram" products (cigarettes, alcohol, etc), I wonder how that does bode.

York
3NE2NR is my LIFE
Posts: 883
Joined: October 11th, 2012, 1:25 am

Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby York » January 14th, 2022, 12:16 pm

Musical instruments are haram, not permissible, in Islam.

York
3NE2NR is my LIFE
Posts: 883
Joined: October 11th, 2012, 1:25 am

Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby York » January 14th, 2022, 12:18 pm

Phone Surgeon wrote:hear this question frank

i see another user post in a next thread how he have witco shares and the government has witco shares and plenty pension funds have witco shares


whats the scene with that as a muslim?
you not allowed to invest in any company that benefits from the sale of ciggs? because smoking is haram

what that mean if you benefiting from any pension plan that gets a portion of their money from shares in witco ?

what about NIS /Pensions, considering the government have shares and profits from witco

should muslims refuse their pensions ?

enlighten us please

Might fall under the category of not having control over or not intentionally indulging in the sinful act.

York
3NE2NR is my LIFE
Posts: 883
Joined: October 11th, 2012, 1:25 am

Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby York » January 14th, 2022, 12:21 pm

d.d.s. wrote:From the folks in my circle, they're not suppose to receive (and I think pay) interest. Zero interest accounts and well credit card is a scene lol. But their parents do accept NIS / pension because they're "entitled" to that.

Taking up a job in a company that sells "haram" products (cigarettes, alcohol, etc), I wonder how that does bode.

Some muslims consider smoking to be disliked, not haram. However, the stronger opinion is the latter.

Taking jobs in companies that manufacture haram goods is not recommended because it leads to your destruction. but note that everyone is free to sin, freedom of choice!

Chimera
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 19194
Joined: October 11th, 2009, 4:06 pm

Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby Chimera » January 14th, 2022, 12:22 pm

If you know about it and accept it then you are intentionally profiting from it.

You aren't being forced to accept it. You can decide to refuse it

User avatar
FrankChag
Riding on 16's
Posts: 1111
Joined: May 9th, 2017, 4:28 pm
Location: W.C.N.S.F

Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » January 14th, 2022, 1:01 pm

bluefete wrote:
FrankChag wrote: Singing songs however is haram, but it isn't shirk (blasphemy), unless the song itself is blasphemous.

Make sense of this for me please.
What kind of songs? Songs to Allah? Pop songs? Non-religious islamic songs?
What about playing of certain musical instruments?
Is playing the steelpan haram?
Are there some drums you cannot play because of the material used?


There is a good book on this: https://darussalamstore.com/en/singing-and-music-eng
Basically, as far as I know, singing, instruments, etc. are all generally impermissible, except for the duff in weddings.
https://abdurrahman.org/2015/06/04/a-great-piece-of-advice-to-the-men-and-women-who-listen-to-music/


death365 wrote:Thank God that I am smart enough to understand that all religions and faiths pray to God. No matter who or what he/she/it is called. So therefore in your opinion... a good Christian/Buddhist/Hindu/orissa person serving their religion all there life... going to hell cause they not follow Islam? If the answer is yes... I am very sorry for you ...

Phone Surgeon wrote:Non muslims = infidels = will burn in the fires of hell


"Verily, Allâh forgives not that partners should be set up with Him (in worship), but He forgives except that (anything else) to whom He wills; and whoever sets up partners with Allâh in worship, he has indeed invented a tremendous sin." https://quran.com/4/48

"And they say: "The Most Gracious (Allâh) has begotten a son (or offspring or children) [as the Jews say: ‘Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allâh, and the Christians say that He has begotten a son [‘Îsâ (Jesus) عليه السلام], and the pagan Arabs say that He has begotten daughters (angels and others.)]. Indeed you have brought forth (said) a terrible evil thing. Whereby the heavens are almost torn, and the earth is split asunder, and the mountains fall in ruins, That they ascribe a son (or offspring or children) to the Most Gracious (Allâh). https://quran.com/19/88-91


God will forgive all sins, except shirk (worshipping other than Allah alone) {{if you die with that belief that is.. for the one who takes his shahadah, ALL your previous sins are wiped clean.}}. The sin therefore of ascribing worship to, or sharing worship with other than the Creator Alone, is so grave, that burning in a Fire forever is absolute justice, and God is the Most Just. If you contemplate on that for a while (whether you believe it or not), you will see the truth in it. God will forgive anything you do, but He will not forgive that. When you look at the sheer gravity of saying, for instance, that God, Almighty, would take on children.. and believing that when it is is untrue and there is no basis for it, then that is worth eternity in the Fire. Those are the rules, whether you accept them or not. We don't, mind you, go about the place thinking that "I'm holier than thou".. but we fear, deeply, for people... for people in our family, for people we work with, for people who are dying.. that they die upon this state of disbelief (kufr). And of course, and most importantly, we fear for our own selves!, that after believing, we turn back, because no one is free from this threat, until they are safe (ie, dead, and may Allah keep us safe, ameen). But we are not responsible for everyone, so at least we try to save our selves and our families.


"O you who believe! Ward off yourselves and your families against a Fire (Hell) whose fuel is men and stones,..." https://quran.com/66/6

Phone Surgeon wrote:hear this question frank, i see another user post in a next thread how he have witco shares and the government has witco shares and plenty pension funds have witco shares. whats the scene with that as a muslim?
you not allowed to invest in any company that benefits from the sale of ciggs? because smoking is haram.
what that mean if you benefiting from any pension plan that gets a portion of their money from shares in witco ?
what about NIS /Pensions, considering the government have shares and profits from witco
should muslims refuse their pensions ?
enlighten us please

d.d.s. wrote:From the folks in my circle, they're not suppose to receive (and I think pay) interest. Zero interest accounts and well credit card is a scene lol. But their parents do accept NIS / pension because they're "entitled" to that. Taking up a job in a company that sells "haram" products (cigarettes, alcohol, etc), I wonder how that does bode.


Smoking is haram. Interest/usury is haram (in Christianity too, if I'm not mistaken). The Messenger of Allah, salAllahu alayhi was sallam said: «Indeed if/when Allaah has declared something haraam, then buying and selling it is (also) haraam». As for the pensions question, I don't know. That is a question for somebody with a grey beard (ie, a Scholar or Shayk).


This treatise has many of the answers to these questions.
You should share it with your Muslim business-owner brothers and sisters, friends, etc..


Forbidden Business Transactions In Islaam
https://abdurrahman.org/2014/01/27/forbiddenbusiness/
PDF: https://abdurrahmanorg.files.wordpress. ... ah-com.pdf


User avatar
FrankChag
Riding on 16's
Posts: 1111
Joined: May 9th, 2017, 4:28 pm
Location: W.C.N.S.F

Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » January 14th, 2022, 3:54 pm

Phone Surgeon wrote:If you know about it and accept it then you are intentionally profiting from it.

You aren't being forced to accept it. You can decide to refuse it



Retirement pension
The first question of Fatwa no. 7121.

Q 1: I was enrolled in the Egyptian Armed Forces as a volunteer from September 1967 A.D. Till January of 1981 A.D., and served in the Army for approximately thirteen years. They used to deduct part of my monthly salary to cover insurance and pensions. This was obligatory. After Allah guided me to understand Islam, I resigned, and thanks to Allah, my resignation was accepted. However, they started paying me 56.54 pounds as a monthly pension. A brother told me that the money of this pension is Riba (usury) and that I must refuse it. Is this correct? What is the correct ruling concerning this pension?

A: If the reality is as you mentioned, it is permissible for you to take the retirement pension as it is a reward for the period you served in the government.


May Allah grant us success. May peace and blessings be upon our Prophet Muhammad, his family, and Companions.


The Permanent Committee for Scholarly Research and Ifta'
`Abdullah ibn Qa`ud, Member
`Abdullah ibn Ghudayyan, Member
`Abdul-Razzaq `Afify, Deputy Chairman
`Abdul-`Aziz ibn `Abdullah ibn Baz, Chairman


Source: https://www.alifta.gov.sa/En/IftaConten ... 1&BookID=7


bluefete
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 13258
Joined: November 12th, 2008, 10:56 pm
Location: POS

Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby bluefete » January 14th, 2022, 4:43 pm

FrankChag wrote:
bluefete wrote:
FrankChag wrote: Singing songs however is haram, but it isn't shirk (blasphemy), unless the song itself is blasphemous.

Make sense of this for me please.
What kind of songs? Songs to Allah? Pop songs? Non-religious islamic songs?
What about playing of certain musical instruments?
Is playing the steelpan haram?
Are there some drums you cannot play because of the material used?


There is a good book on this: https://darussalamstore.com/en/singing-and-music-eng
Basically, as far as I know, singing, instruments, etc. are all generally impermissible, except for the duff in weddings.
https://abdurrahman.org/2015/06/04/a-great-piece-of-advice-to-the-men-and-women-who-listen-to-music/


Nah, I do not believe what I just read there.

I advise all men and women not to listen to music, because they bring about evil consequences.

So when staunch, fundamentalist Muslim, Inshan Ishmael is playing Arabic music on IBN, he is doing something that is haram.

Did anyone ever tell him that? Or is it that the people are not singing but chanting? Is there a difference?

So singing songs of praise to Allah is haram as well?

And this as well:

And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing, etc.) to mislead (men) from the Path of Allâh without knowledge, and takes it (the Path of Allâh, or the Verses of the Qur’ân) by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment (in the Hell-fire). (Surah Luqman, 31: 6)

How do the scholars interpret "idle talks" as music and singing?

Commentators of the Qur’an interpret “idol talk” to mean singing and it is equally applied to every sound produced by musical instruments and diversions. This is the view held by most scholars of the Qur’an (may Allah have mercy on them).

Do people blindly follow whatever the "scholars" say? Sounds much like other religions to me. Whatever, the priest, imam, pundit says is the gospel truth. Really?

bamfo_dennis
Sweet on this forum
Posts: 364
Joined: May 25th, 2021, 6:37 pm

Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby bamfo_dennis » January 14th, 2022, 4:51 pm

like some men in here feel they living in the middle of the desert in Saudi Arabia yes. If allyuh cyah fit in civilization ride out nah, go and smoke allyuh camel sheit and get visions and bull underage girls in peace in the middle of the desert nah where it eh have no water and food and only have lice and a set of man eyeing down each other for 12 moons a year. It eh go have music out there to bother you either. Any set of rubbish like this allyuh talking go draw a crowd because thats the best entertainment too. You could even start a whole new religion for yourself, just become a warlord and then hide in a cave and make up some flying unicorn story with seven heavens then tell everyone it and make it outlaw for any other religion to exist. Nobody else eh even have to witness it, no proof presented, nuthin. Then wait a few hundred years for the waterless fanatics to spread it.

Ent it that simple?

User avatar
FrankChag
Riding on 16's
Posts: 1111
Joined: May 9th, 2017, 4:28 pm
Location: W.C.N.S.F

Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » January 14th, 2022, 4:58 pm

bamfo_dennis wrote:like some men in here feel they living in the middle of the desert in Saudi Arabia yes. If allyuh cyah fit in civilization ride out nah, go and smoke allyuh camel sheit and get visions and bull underage girls in peace in the middle of the desert nah where it eh have no water and food and only have lice and a set of man eyeing down each other for 12 moons a year. It eh go have music out there to bother you either. Any set of rubbish like this allyuh talking go draw a crowd because thats the best entertainment too. You could even start a whole new religion for yourself, just become a warlord and then hide in a cave and make up some flying unicorn story with seven heavens then tell everyone it and make it outlaw for any other religion to exist. Nobody else eh even have to witness it, no proof presented, nuthin. Then wait a few hundred years for the waterless fanatics to spread it.

Ent it that simple?


Both Jesus (Eesa) and Moses (Musa) (upon them both be peace), lived in the desert.

User avatar
zoom rader
TunerGod
Posts: 27300
Joined: April 22nd, 2003, 12:39 pm
Location: Grand Cayman

Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby zoom rader » January 14th, 2022, 5:13 pm

FrankChag wrote:
bamfo_dennis wrote:like some men in here feel they living in the middle of the desert in Saudi Arabia yes. If allyuh cyah fit in civilization ride out nah, go and smoke allyuh camel sheit and get visions and bull underage girls in peace in the middle of the desert nah where it eh have no water and food and only have lice and a set of man eyeing down each other for 12 moons a year. It eh go have music out there to bother you either. Any set of rubbish like this allyuh talking go draw a crowd because thats the best entertainment too. You could even start a whole new religion for yourself, just become a warlord and then hide in a cave and make up some flying unicorn story with seven heavens then tell everyone it and make it outlaw for any other religion to exist. Nobody else eh even have to witness it, no proof presented, nuthin. Then wait a few hundred years for the waterless fanatics to spread it.

Ent it that simple?


Both Jesus (Eesa) and Moses (Musa) (upon them both be peace), lived in the desert.
There is no proof that these ppl ever existed

Advertisement

Return to “Ole talk and more Ole talk”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: venom21 and 80 guests