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OFFICIAL CLICO THREAD

this is how we do it.......

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Re: OFFICIAL CLICO THREAD

Postby The_Honourable » July 5th, 2017, 12:28 am

20 billion to 27 billion... 3.2 billion went to adviser fees :lol:


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Re: OFFICIAL CLICO THREAD

Postby The_Honourable » July 8th, 2017, 9:47 pm

The prime minister is saying this country is being told that it has not done enough to bail out three Caricom neighbours affected by the Clico fiasco. He made the comments following his return from Grenada where he attended the Caricom heads of government meeting.


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Re: OFFICIAL CLICO THREAD

Postby The_Honourable » July 10th, 2017, 5:42 pm

Duprey may take back control of clico on July 26th :shock:


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Re: OFFICIAL CLICO THREAD

Postby src1983 » July 11th, 2017, 8:40 am

Neal Dingwall is the new appointed CEO

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Re: OFFICIAL CLICO THREAD

Postby The_Honourable » July 14th, 2017, 10:44 pm

Dingwall buss out after a week :lol:

New chairman for Clico

Claire Gomez-Miller has been appointed executive chairman of Clico and chairman of British American Company (Trinidad) Ltd. She replaces Neal Dingwall who was non-executive chairman of both companies briefly for a week, the Central Bank confirmed yesterday.

Gomez-Miller takes over from Wendy Ho Sing who served as executive chairman of both companies from June 5, 2015, to July 7.

“In the transition period until the appointment of Mrs Gomez-Miller, Mr Neil Dingwall, special advisor to the Governor of the Central Bank, served as non-executive chairman of the boards of Clico and BAT,” the Central Bank said in a release.

Gomez- Miller, whose appointment took effect yesterday, will serve for one year. She retired from National Gas Company where she was group chief audit executive.

Gomez-Miller is a Certified Internal Auditor (CIA) and Certified Risk Management Assurance (CRMA) professional with more than 30 years of internal auditing experience in the energy and state sectors at the professional and senior executive levels.

Source: http://www.guardian.co.tt/business/2017 ... rman-clico

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Re: OFFICIAL CLICO THREAD

Postby The_Honourable » July 15th, 2017, 12:35 am

Update on Clico:

Duprey is also in Trinidad


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Re: OFFICIAL CLICO THREAD

Postby The_Honourable » July 15th, 2017, 12:35 am

WIND UP CLICO

Govt goes to court to recover $15b from failed conglomerate

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Re: OFFICIAL CLICO THREAD

Postby The_Honourable » July 15th, 2017, 12:36 am

We are protecting taxpayers, says Imbert

Govt’s bid to liquidate CL Financial:

The Government could not sit “idly back” and allow control of the CL Financial board and its companies to be taken away from it, in view of the over $23 billion of public funds used in the bailout of the failed conglomerate.

This was the rationale provided by Finance Minister Colm Imbert as he explained the background to Government's decision to approach the court to have CL Financial liquidated.

“Being the custodian of public money and (given that) so much of the public money has gone into this arrangement, we felt we had no choice as Government but to seek to protect the public purse, to protect taxpayers' fund and to make this application for CL Financial to be put into liquidation,” he said.

Speaking at yesterday's post-Cabinet news conference at the Diplomatic Centre, St Ann's, Imbert said :“The recovery (of taxpayers' money which was used for the bailout) after eight-and-a-half years, has only been about $7.5 billion and the Government has put in at least $23 billion. So that it was going very very slowly. And then there was reluctance on the part of the other shareholders to continue the original agreement and to sign another extension to the shareholders' agreement.

“I took a note to Cabinet for the Government to sign another extension to August and we sent that to the other shareholders and they didn't sign it. They sent it back.”

Instead, Imbert said, there was a move by the other shareholders to take control of the board.

Noting that the original agreement placed on the CL Financial board four Government directors and three directors from an entity called United Shareholders Ltd, (a body which purported to represent all of the other shareholders), he said this arrangement gave Government a majority in the board.

Imperfect accounting by former Govt

“But the other side asked for a special meeting of shareholders to add two of their people to the board, which would bring their membership up to five, against the Government's four, effectively causing the Government to lose control of the board and of the companies. And we could not sit idly by,” he said.

The special meeting of the shareholders is scheduled for July 26, Imbert said.

The Express reported exclusively yesterday that the Government has petitioned the High Court to have CL Financial wound up because it is unable to pay its debt.

The Government's petition to the High Court to appoint a liquidator for CL Financial will be heard on July 25.

Imbert said it was only when the PNM Government came into office, that there was a proper accounting of the money spent by taxpayers to bail out CL Financial.

“Prior to this Government coming into office the approach to that matter was less than perfect. We are the first Government since 2010, which did a proper accounting exercise using qualified accounting personnel and the records at the Ministry. And that is how the Permanent Secretary in the Ministry of Finance (Vishnu Dhanpaul) was able to put in his affidavit (to the court) the total sums expended by the Government. There has been a lot of loose talk about this and one of the good things that would come out of this application is that the matter is now in the public domain and the public can see for themselves based on the affidavit of the Permanent Secretary exactly how much money was spent and on what,” he said. He added that the Government application did not put a figure on legal fees and consultant fees.

Imbert said the bailout was supposed to have been completed after three years and the assets of CL Financial and subsidiary CLICO should have been disposed of by 2012 in order to repay the Government.

But that did not happen, he said.

CLICO not affected

Instead the original agreement was extended 17 times.

He said this Government got an extension when it came to office.

He said the only money recovered thus far came from a “forced situation”.

He referred to the MHTL arbitration in which the arbitrator ordered Government to sell the shares to the only shareholder and $7.5 billion came out of that.

He noted that in addition to the $23 billion, Government was faced with other liabilities, such as exposure to claims from third parties, with respect to deposits they may have had in CLICO Investment Bank.

“So the $23 billion is a base and it is anticipated that it is more. But these have not been quantified at this point in time,” he said.

Imbert stressed that Government had not taken legal action to wind up CLICO.

Imbert said CLICO has been under the control and management of the Central Bank.

“CLICO policyholders can be assured that the management of CLICO remains under the control of Central Bank,” he said, reiterating that the legal action being taken by Government did not affect CLICO.

Asked where was Republic Bank in all of this, Imbert said CLICO Investment Fund, a publicly traded entity, is backed by a significant block of Republic Bank shares (about 29 per cent). He said CLICO has laid claim to ownership of about seven per cent of Republic bank shares while CLICO Investment Bank has laid claim to 18 per cent.

He said when all the shares were added up it amounted to about 52 per cent of Republic Bank shares.

He said the 25 per cent owned by CLICO and CLICO Investment bank were not affected.


Source: http://www.trinidadexpress.com/20170713 ... ays-imbert

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Re: OFFICIAL CLICO THREAD

Postby The_Honourable » July 15th, 2017, 12:49 am

CL Financial shareholders on ‘Govt’s fire sale’

IT’S a fire sale.

That’s how the majority shareholders of CL Financial (CLF), represented by the United Shareholders Company Ltd, and the CLICO Policy Holders Group, are viewing the Government’s petition to wind up the conglomerate.

They believe the winding-up and liquidation of CLF would ultimately lead to the liquidation of Colonial Life Insurance Company (CLICO).

If CLF were insolvent, as the Government claims, then it would not make the $15 billion debt which the Government says it is owed, and they believe CLICO would ultimately be liquidated to meet the debt gap.

There is also concern a “fire sale” in a depressed economy such as T&T’s would raise little money at this time to satisfy the Government’s debt. These claims were made in a joint news conference with the two groups at The Residence restaurant, One Woodbrook Place, yesterday.

The shareholders called on the Government to meet and negotiate with them.

On Tuesday, the Government petitioned the High Court to have CLF wound up, arguing it was unable to pay its $15 billion debt.

Source: http://www.trinidadexpress.com/20170715 ... -negotiate

Video: The Clico Policyholders Group and the United Shareholders Limited (USL) are opposed to government's decision to liquidate CL Financial and they're describing this act as a scare tactic.


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Re: OFFICIAL CLICO THREAD

Postby Redman » July 15th, 2017, 3:08 am

I'm not comfortable with this collusion between the policy holders and the shareholders.

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Re: OFFICIAL CLICO THREAD

Postby hydroep » July 15th, 2017, 6:04 am

I wonder if the top 1% call dibs?... :|

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Re: OFFICIAL CLICO THREAD

Postby Redman » July 15th, 2017, 6:36 am

Bankers Association of TnT

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Re: OFFICIAL CLICO THREAD

Postby The_Honourable » July 15th, 2017, 2:30 pm

hydroep wrote:I wonder if the top 1% call dibs?... :|


Correct.

The government (taxpayers), pumped in a total of close to 27 Billion into CL Financial. Remember, the government already received a payout of approx 7 Billion back in March 2015.

A report done by PriceWaterhouse Coopers called "Project Rebirth" in Dec 2016 stated that the government can exit the company in 5 months with the remaining 19.24 billion owed being paid out. This means that the debt from CL Financial to the government will be settled. 92% of it will be liquid while the remaining 8 percent is real estate comprising of lands in Tobago which the government has intentions for the Sandals project.

For PWC, a 3rd party who is independent from both clico and the government to put forward this recommendation means that CL financial is profitable and can pay off the government (money owed to taxpayers). The policyholders and shareholders is literally telling the government "We have your money. Here... take it and go".

What seems to be happening is that the government doesn't want to leave even tho they can be paid off 100%. Their intentions is to liquidate so that their financiers can receive their ROI by calling dibs on CL financial assets for fire sale prices. If the government leaves, no more "eat ah food" that started during the Manning era, thru Kamla and now Rowley.

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Re: OFFICIAL CLICO THREAD

Postby The_Honourable » July 17th, 2017, 12:16 am

Clico transfers interest in No Man’s Land to Govt

At the very end of the notes to the 2016 year-end audited financial accounts of beleaguered insurance giant Clico lies note 37. It reads: “To facilitate the implementation of the Resolution Plan, in January 2017, the Company was directed by the Central Bank of Trinidad and Tobago to take the necessary steps to effect the transfer of its 100% shareholdings in Occidental Investments Limited and Oceanic Properties Limited to the state enterprise Buccoo Limited. This transfer agreement was completed on March 2017.”

In effect, this note says that Clico’s 100 per cent interest in Occidental Investments Ltd and Oceanic Properties Ltd, more commonly known as the No Man’s Land ocean property in Tobago, and carried on Clico’s balance sheet at a value of roughly $187 million, is now owned by the Government of T&T.

One of the concerns arising out of this transfer, according to chairman of the Clico Policyholders Group Peter Permell, is the fact that the Minister of Finance by virtue of the powers under Section 44D of the Central Bank Act can give general or specific instructions to the Central Bank in this particular transaction.

Permell said: “What is troubling is the fact that the note is silent on the price at which the transfer took place and there was no indication in the note to the accounts of whether there was a gain or loss on the transaction. What that suggests is that this prime piece of real estate was transferred at the carrying value as opposed to the fair market value. According to the Project Rebirth report prepared by PricewaterhouseCoppers (PwC), the fair market value of the property is estimated at circa $867 million. This represents a substantial difference in value of $680 million.”

The process of selling and/or transferring Clico’s assets requires oversight by the Central Bank for accountability and transparency, statutory independent valuations in accordance with Section 44D of the Central Bank Act and consultation with the Minister of Finance under Section 44F (5) of the said act.”

According to Permell, the deficit in 2016 came down from roughly $1.2 billion in 2015 to $910 million in 2016 and had this transfer been done at fair market value, “the $910 million deficit shown on Clico’s balance sheet, causing it to appear technically insolvent, would have been reduced by a further $680 million, moving the company even closer to solvency.”

He said this transaction was a glaring example that if all the assets on Clico’s balance sheet are revalued at their current market value, this would totally eliminate the apparent insolvency position of the company that now exists. Permell said what was equally troubling is the manner in which the transaction was carried out.

“Based on the manner in which the transaction appears to have been done, it conceals the $680 million worth of value that the Government actually received from Clico and conversely a loss of value to the company and by extension policyholders.”

Permell is also questioning why this transaction has not yet been disclosed by the Government to the taxpayers of T&T.

He said: “The note clearly states that the transaction had been completed since March 2017 and we are now in July (some four months later). And as far as I am aware, to date, the public has not heard anything about this. I am therefore now calling on the Minister of Finance for full disclosure on the particulars of this transaction.”

For the year ended December 2016, Clico recorded an after-tax profit of $447.3 million. This represents a 50 per cent decline from its 2015 figure when the company registered $894.3 million in profit after tax.

IMBERT RESPONDS

Finance Minister Colm Imbert, responding to a text message from the Sunday Guardian on the matter last night, said, “Reports on the monetisation of Clico’s assets and repayment of the money spent by the Government of the Republic of T&T are laid in the Parliament and in court at regular intervals. There are strict court ordered procedures for disposal or transfer of Clico’s assets to repay the Government.”

He said any transfer or sale of assets that take place in an intervening period is recorded in the next report that is laid in Parliament and in the court. This is done at regular intervals.

Imbert further directed the Sunday Guardian to the Clico Resolution Plan, which was announced by the Central Bank in March 2015.

Central Bank’s Clico Resolution Plan was developed to repay all creditors and policyholders and to ultimately facilitate the transfer of Clico’s traditional insurance portfolio to a suitable buyer by ensuring that enough appropriate assets are put aside.

Clico Resolution Plan that you need to remember:

1. Government, as the single largest creditor of Clico, will receive $4 billion in 2015, and the balance of around $3 billion in lieu of cash upon the transfer of three Clico assets, Angostura Holdings Ltd, CL World Brands Ltd and Home Construction Ltd.

2. The 1500 non-assenting STIPs policyholders will receive 85 per cent of their claim or about 950 million dollars in three months, and the remaining balance after the sale of Methanol Holdings International Ltd.

3. Creditors outside of the Statutory Fund such as non-Government mutual fundholders and non-residential Short Term Investment Products policyholders will be paid following the sale of Clico’s RBL shares and other assets.

4. The policyholders who accepted Government’s offer of bonds and shares in the Clico Investment Fund will be no worse off.

5. The claims of British American Insurance Company Trinidad Ltd (Bat) policyholders will also be settled.

Source: [url]http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/2017-07-15/clico-transfers-interest-no-man’s-land-govt[/url]

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Re: OFFICIAL CLICO THREAD

Postby Dizzy28 » July 17th, 2017, 9:15 am

The_Honourable wrote:
hydroep wrote:I wonder if the top 1% call dibs?... :|


Correct.

The government (taxpayers), pumped in a total of close to 27 Billion into CL Financial. Remember, the government already received a payout of approx 7 Billion back in March 2015.

A report done by PriceWaterhouse Coopers called "Project Rebirth" in Dec 2016 stated that the government can exit the company in 5 months with the remaining 19.24 billion owed being paid out. This means that the debt from CL Financial to the government will be settled. 92% of it will be liquid while the remaining 8 percent is real estate comprising of lands in Tobago which the government has intentions for the Sandals project.

For PWC, a 3rd party who is independent from both clico and the government to put forward this recommendation means that CL financial is profitable and can pay off the government (money owed to taxpayers). The policyholders and shareholders is literally telling the government "We have your money. Here... take it and go".

What seems to be happening is that the government doesn't want to leave even tho they can be paid off 100%. Their intentions is to liquidate so that their financiers can receive their ROI by calling dibs on CL financial assets for fire sale prices. If the government leaves, no more "eat ah food" that started during the Manning era, thru Kamla and now Rowley.


Lol!!!! You really feel PWC independent??

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Re: OFFICIAL CLICO THREAD

Postby eliteauto » July 17th, 2017, 9:21 am

The government clearly doesn't want the cash. Friends and family time now

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Re: OFFICIAL CLICO THREAD

Postby Redman » July 17th, 2017, 10:46 am

If any here had a doubt about PNM being different from the UNC/COP/PP in any relevant way this should prove that there is NO DIFFERENCE.

This kill and sell off policy being applied to the CL group....has bridged
3 admins,2 parties-
3-5 Ministers of Finance,
the same amount of Ministers IN THE ministry of Finance,
3 Prime Ministers,
despite pertinent questions from Permell,the shareholders and people like Afra Raymond.

Make no mistake this is a gang rape of the policy holders and the investing public.

And the implications of this are disruptive to the entire financial services sector...all in favor of the banking cartel.

None of your insurance policies,pensions annuities are now backed by the GORTT.

we now have the precedent set.

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Re: OFFICIAL CLICO THREAD

Postby Numb3r4 » July 17th, 2017, 12:00 pm

In this time of economic hardship would it not be wise to allow Clico to pay back its debt to society and then continue its operations, would this not help to bring in some much needed foreign exchange?

Clico could go on to rehabilitate its image and possibly serve the country.

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Re: OFFICIAL CLICO THREAD

Postby Redman » July 17th, 2017, 12:02 pm

It is easier than you could imagine.

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Re: OFFICIAL CLICO THREAD

Postby The_Honourable » July 17th, 2017, 8:58 pm

CLF liquidation delayed


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Re: OFFICIAL CLICO THREAD

Postby The_Honourable » July 17th, 2017, 10:44 pm

- Nobody can give a proper figure on how much has been spent on clico and how much the company owes now as of 2017.

- No audited accounts published since the government took over clico in 2009.

- Money pumped in yet many policyholders didn't receive anything close to 9 years now. So who got all that money?

- Was no man's land transaction legal? If duprey takes back control, can he now sue for the lands back?

- Were deals already made behind closed doors some time before this present situation?

- Duprey did mess that lead to the clico debacle. The government thru the Central Bank mismanaged the whole process inclusive of political interference. So who should take over clico now?


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Re: OFFICIAL CLICO THREAD

Postby pugboy » July 18th, 2017, 5:49 am

that is the main problem
they "lent" them money for a bailout, no proper arrangement for collateral, repayment, interest etc

so the govt is in a catch 22 now, if duprey or whoever makes moves to get back control it would be a stupid scenario for the govt as billions of taxpayers money was taken to "save" clico


would you lend your neighbour who has a gambling habit millions of dollars interest free to save his house(with no collateral)from the bank and wait until he wins big in the casino for repayment ?

The obvious thing would be to try and take ownership of the most valuable and easy to transfer items in the house(nomans land) to at least be secure of getting back something for the money loaned.....

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Re: OFFICIAL CLICO THREAD

Postby Redman » July 18th, 2017, 8:10 am

Its not hard.

CL has multiple producing world class assets.
Liquidity was an issue-like Lehman,Bear STearns,WAMU,Merril, MSDW. and the hundreds of othe companies that got caught with the dislocations in the market.

Step in and take control of all assets.

Assess total debt to be paid off.- could have been finished by end of 2009

Raise 30 year bond with GORTT garantee AND backed by CL asset base-could have been done by Q2,2010
Pay off the debts in order of priority:

Policyholders
Secured Debt.
Fees for Same.
Unsecured Debt

Complete exercise by end of 2010.

We now have a company operating profitably with a FIXED debt load that is ultra high quality since it is backed by some of the best assets in the region AND a GORTT garantee
Net worth =Assets(now revalued CL Assets) -Liability(CLBond).

at 2011 valuations that NW might well be positive.

Let the highest bidder buy back the company for the higher of net worth, or market value.

subject to fit and proper-which DQs past directors etc

However 45 % of the equity of the co remains in a NEL like structure for further divestment through an IPO ...with priority given to the PRIVATE individual shareholders.(proceeds pays down the bond)

At historically low interest rates-the bidding would have been strong.

Major success -soak up liquidity,deepen the equity markets,deepen the corporate and govt debt markets-all positive.

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Re: OFFICIAL CLICO THREAD

Postby The_Honourable » July 19th, 2017, 12:34 am

Redman wrote:If any here had a doubt about PNM being different from the UNC/COP/PP in any relevant way this should prove that there is NO DIFFERENCE.

This kill and sell off policy being applied to the CL group....has bridged
3 admins,2 parties-
3-5 Ministers of Finance,
the same amount of Ministers IN THE ministry of Finance,
3 Prime Ministers,
despite pertinent questions from Permell,the shareholders and people like Afra Raymond.

Make no mistake this is a gang rape of the policy holders and the investing public.

And the implications of this are disruptive to the entire financial services sector...all in favor of the banking cartel.

None of your insurance policies,pensions annuities are now backed by the GORTT.

we now have the precedent set.


Endorsed 100%!!!

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Re: OFFICIAL CLICO THREAD

Postby Redman » July 20th, 2017, 9:14 am

Its easy to demonize Duprey and Co-every witch hunt needs a witch.
To be clear-I think the shareholders should be the LAST to receive any money.

However when you get away from the personalities and LOOK at the market, you see something a little more relevant

The EFPA was an Annuity-the CBTT said so at the point of closure....allowing it to be sold as such at the point of contract.

What CL did with the money isnt in the control of the policy holder...they were advised by agents LICENSED by the Supervisor of Insurance...on an Insurance product, sold by an authorised Insurance company, ratified by the CBTT...backed by a Statutory Fund overseen by the Supervisor of Insurance and the CBTT.

So the banks locally needed to compete for the deposit market by offering higher deposit rates.

And this continued for 15 years +.
Until 2008 when global sheit hits the global fan.

The EFPA disappears....Clico and Duprey are now the antichrist

The investing/saving class now run back to the banks.There is no where else to go
POLICY HOLDERS take the hit-

From 2008-2017 some things happened

1)Deposit rates plummet---CBTT figures show that BANK DEPOSIT RATES PEAKED DEC 2008.
They have fallen by 80% since then.

2)Consumer deposits went from 24B to 52B -despite the return on investment aka interest rates falling 80%
that's an increase of about 116%?
The banks are now getting twice as much money....while paying 80% less for it.

Is this rational behavior for the public?

3) The difference between deposit rates and lending rates ie the Intermediation Spread went from 8.4% in Dec 2008 to a peak of 10.1% in Dec 2009 and now sits at 7.5%

This while a string of ex career bankers are put in charge of the CL affair....

recap-BATT was making 8.4% on 24B on Consumer deposits.....when CL was killed.
Despite global dislocation, tun tun governments, and terrible economic prospects are now earning 7.5% on 52B.....

AT THE COST OF US THE DEPOSITING PUBLIC

Connect the dots here....
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Re: OFFICIAL CLICO THREAD

Postby neilsingh100 » July 20th, 2017, 9:49 am

There is no doubt that the CL/Clico assets were being mis-managed under the government which was running it like a state enterprise to the detriment of shareholders and policyholders. The government robbed policyholders of their interest and on top of that want get back the face value of the zero coupon bonds they issued to policyholders so they robbing policyholders of another 3 billion. Sad to say but I have more faith in Duprey than the government at this point.

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Re: OFFICIAL CLICO THREAD

Postby $h@dy » July 20th, 2017, 10:50 am

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Re: OFFICIAL CLICO THREAD

Postby Redman » July 20th, 2017, 12:36 pm

So we now have the delima of which band of thieves do we end up with control of this asset base.

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Re: OFFICIAL CLICO THREAD

Postby The_Honourable » July 20th, 2017, 9:25 pm

Redman wrote:So we now have the delima of which band of thieves do we end up with control of this asset base.


^^^ Correct... lesser of the two evils

Financial Analyst Peter Permell says government’s failure to secure the court’s support in its bid to have provisional liquidators appointed to preserve the assets of CL Financial, as it seeks to recover a $15 billion debt, is good news for Trinidad and Tobago.



The state intends to appeal a high court decision that dismissed its application to have provisional liquidators appointed to CL Financial. Last night, justice Kevin Ramcharan ruled against the state, a move that was welcomed by shareholders.


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The_Honourable
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Re: OFFICIAL CLICO THREAD

Postby The_Honourable » July 24th, 2017, 1:33 am

State appeal in CL Financial matter to be heard on Tuesday



Summary of the CL Financial Seminar that was held on Sunday


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