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Lets talk CNG

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Strugglerzinc
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Re: Lets talk CNG

Postby Strugglerzinc » August 23rd, 2020, 9:55 am

nemisis wrote:I changed twice ist set of 3 original and after 4 months I changed 2 to generic
Ted_v2 wrote:What coilpacks you does use guys?
foreign used?
brand new wingwong from a partsplace?
or genuine from a dealer?


In all fairness, coil pack failure on HR/MR engines is common and widespread in any event.

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Re: Lets talk CNG

Postby maj. tom » August 23rd, 2020, 10:07 am

OEM ignition coils are more expensive that i thought.
Even the Aqua (Prius C) has 1 coil OEM for $116USD.

NGK and DENSO also have for the same model but close to that price at $104 USD per coil.

Generic unknown brands come up to average $29USD per coil.


So i guess that says something about the quality of OEM vs. NGK/DENSO vs. very generic.
I wouldn't trust that precision ignition timing to an unknown brand generic resistance circuit.
And consider that they each have an IC controller as well.
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Lets talk CNG

Postby agent007 » August 23rd, 2020, 11:14 am

As this thread got revived, I am observing the type of vehicles that have these conversion kits installed. Today I saw a white Nissan Latio and just for reference those ugly cars come with one engine option only and that is a 1.2 3 cylinder engine producing about 80hp (same as Note).

Using the 20% power loss rule, it means post-install, this Latio would be producing 64hp and this is at the crank. Whp might be 50 if he lucky and the thing is, that car is being used as PH.

All those Nissan QG, HR and MR engines are junk imo and blow coil packs and MAFS often. Nothing like a GA, CA, SR and KA like they use to make. Even the RB proves more reliable than the VQ.

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Re: Lets talk CNG

Postby adnj » August 23rd, 2020, 11:39 am

agent007 wrote:As this thread got revived, I am observing the type of vehicles that have these conversion kits installed. Today I saw a white Nissan Latio and just for reference those ugly cars come with one engine option only and that is a 1.2 3 cylinder engine producing about 80hp (same as Note).

Using the 20% power loss rule, it means post-install, this Latio would be producing 64hp and this is at the crank. Whp might be 50 if he lucky and the thing is, that car is being used as PH.

All those Nissan QG, HR and MR engines are junk imo and blow coil packs and MAFS often. Nothing like a GA, CA, SR and KA like they use to make. Even the RB proves more reliable than the VQ.
I agree with expected 20% BHP loss from conversion to CNG. But 15% to 20% driveline loss for BHP to WHP is typical for RWD systems. 10% to 15% loss is typical for FWD.

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Re: Lets talk CNG

Postby NR8 » August 23rd, 2020, 2:10 pm

I am surprised to hear you all talk about coil failures. I have an Almera with a system installed by Burmac in Jan 2020. It is a daily driven taxi doing about 5000km every 3 weeks and there have been no issues to date. I believe the coil packs are OEM. There is also no discernible power loss switching from gas to CNG :?

I do agree that CNG is dead in the water though. I have been considering installing in another vehicle that will be doing north-south runs daily. For a taxi, filling up everyday is a normal thing but for a personal vehicle it's an annoyance. The loss of trunk space in a sedan is a hindrance and installing it a SUV instead defeats the purpose of having a SUV. Hybrid/electric is the way forward.

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Re: Lets talk CNG

Postby nismotrinidappa » August 23rd, 2020, 3:11 pm

Lol man 2020. That system like a virgin. I do 5000km a month. Engine start 6 am. Engine switches off between 7 to 10 pm. So oil coil all working while idling. I installed April 2019 and only recently changed coils. Coils blew apparently after i did a small engine wash home.

However coilpack were going before as I realised there was slight misfire with cng but not with gas. The cng is precise and shows up any weak areas in your engine e.g. overheating. All my mounts were bad due to jerking until I regapped and cleaned maf and throttle body .

So
Regap your plugs between 0.8 to 1.1 terrific acceleration under cng
Clean your maf sensor and throttle body
Change plugs
Very important. Don't be cheap and use super gas. Run the premium and enjoy cleaner internal and injectors . When using cng and your injectors just dribbling to maintain idle super IS going to clog it and affect idle issues and performance

I have qr20 engine. I am due to service and car running excellent. I informed my neighbour about the gapping after he waste money twice on changingToyota coilpacks and plugs

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Re: Lets talk CNG

Postby xtech » August 23rd, 2020, 3:47 pm

maj. tom wrote:OEM ignition coils are more expensive that i thought.
Even the Aqua (Prius C) has 1 coil OEM for $116USD.

NGK and DENSO also have for the same model but close to that price at $104 USD per coil.

Generic unknown brands come up to average $29USD per coil.


So i guess that says something about the quality of OEM vs. NGK/DENSO vs. very generic.
I wouldn't trust that precision ignition timing to an unknown brand generic resistance circuit.
And consider that they each have an IC controller as well.
Image


I Got all 4 OEM Prius C coil packs for less than $100USD.

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Re: Lets talk CNG

Postby Strugglerzinc » August 23rd, 2020, 3:50 pm

nismotrinidappa wrote:Run the premium and enjoy cleaner internal and injectors . When using cng and your injectors just dribbling to maintain idle super IS going to clog it and affect idle issues and performance



People still on this nonsense?

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Re: Lets talk CNG

Postby nismotrinidappa » August 23rd, 2020, 4:14 pm

Correct is right

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Re: Lets talk CNG

Postby sMASH » August 23rd, 2020, 7:51 pm

When I put in my cng, I specifically asked for it to be tuned rich fir that reason self. Still getting coil pack blowing.

I working on a solution, but it 2oukd take a year or so to verify that it works better than the oem set up.
racedriverpro wrote:Possibly the leaner burn creating more heat. The engine wasn't designed to be CNG conversion friendly.

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Re: Lets talk CNG

Postby Ted_v2 » August 23rd, 2020, 11:19 pm

If i thinking what your thinking, you already solved the issue.

swapping coils or mounting it externally with wires to the cyl?

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Re: Lets talk CNG

Postby nervewrecker » August 23rd, 2020, 11:54 pm

Was talking to some CNG techs yesterday concerning this issue and they were saying possibly spark plugs.

Will update what they recommend.

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Re: Lets talk CNG

Postby sMASH » August 24th, 2020, 5:36 pm

Ted_v2 wrote:If i thinking what your thinking, you already solved the issue.

swapping coils or mounting it externally with wires to the cyl?
The heat of that engine is not higher enough to cause a thermal failure of the coil packs, but in the plugs, is enough to change the electrical parameters the the coil pack circuit would operate with.

The hot plugs getting damaged and that in turn affecting the coil packs electrically.

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Re: Lets talk CNG

Postby nervewrecker » August 24th, 2020, 8:26 pm

Ted_v2 wrote:If i thinking what your thinking, you already solved the issue.

swapping coils or mounting it externally with wires to the cyl?


One ah dem CNG places need to hire you yes. Give yuh a good position with this kinda expertise :drinking: 0X

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Re: Lets talk CNG

Postby racedriverpro » August 24th, 2020, 8:35 pm

Wouldn't that create additional resistance in reference to ohm's law... weakening the spark delivered to the spark plug?

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Re: Lets talk CNG

Postby zoom rader » August 24th, 2020, 8:44 pm

racedriverpro wrote:Wouldn't that create additional resistance in reference to ohm's law... weakening the spark delivered to the spark plug?
Cold Joints and leaking plug wires

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Re: Lets talk CNG

Postby nervewrecker » August 24th, 2020, 8:51 pm

racedriverpro wrote:Wouldn't that create additional resistance in reference to ohm's law... weakening the spark delivered to the spark plug?


Aren't the older boxer engines wired like this?

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Re: Lets talk CNG

Postby racedriverpro » August 24th, 2020, 9:08 pm

Good point, however it can be argued that it was engineered to work that way. Alot of other factors compensations in that equation.

In a y12 for example, adapting that method of spark delivery would result in a weaker spark...and I would say guarantee to exacerbate the issue... especially all those HRs have issues with coil packs or ICM module issues.

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Re: Lets talk CNG

Postby sMASH » August 24th, 2020, 10:03 pm

As stated above, the the hr is engine coil packs have a general high failure rate, so the hot plug situation may just be adding fuel to the fire.

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Re: Lets talk CNG

Postby Ted_v2 » August 24th, 2020, 10:32 pm

What about a straight 6 engine like a l24/28 ? isnt the last plug wire #6 about 12" longer than number 1 cyl? i cant see it making any diff, ecu would be unaffected because it cant tell whats going on outside. It just sends pulses to the coil. Some coils are smart and would tell the ecu when a issue arrises, EG misfire cyl 1 ect, but i do believe this has to do with the ecu sensing the coil is fired, ill do some research on this and report back.
coils has resistors inside as well, the little cylinder unit between the coil and the spring.

You could rewire a coilpack from a diff application to work in any car within reason.

EG NZE coilpack on rb20/25
CS 4g15 with double coilpack, you could rewire some nissan coils to work here, they would have to still fire in the wastespark orientation however.
https://www.golebysparts.com.au/product ... bVz75H3Mvs

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Re: Lets talk CNG

Postby kamakazi » August 24th, 2020, 10:51 pm

What spark plugs and gaps are people running in their CNG fueled vehicles.

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Re: Lets talk CNG

Postby sMASH » August 25th, 2020, 2:58 am

People running oem gapping, but I saw that lpg systems run a little closer gap.
kamakazi wrote:What spark plugs and gaps are people running in their CNG fueled vehicles.



About using another coil pack, not sure how the voltages would be similar enough.

If somebody could test them to compare.


But to go tru all this thing to get it to be stable.... Kinda spinning top in mud. U saving on fuel, but spending on parts after.

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Re: Lets talk CNG

Postby jerry88 » August 29th, 2020, 8:31 am

Hey cng users
I just found out by troubleshooting.
I got the best performance from my engine on CNG when i disconnected the solenoid on the butterfly on the intake manifold that is close to the cylinder head. I have 2 cars with cng and did this on both. I now get better acceleration just as if i was running petrol.
The only problem i have to work out now is how to get the check engine light off for that unit.

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Re: Lets talk CNG

Postby jerry88 » August 29th, 2020, 8:57 am

Hey cng users
I just found out by troubleshooting.
I got the best performance from my engine on CNG when i disconnected the solenoid on the butterfly on the intake manifold that is close to the cylinder head. I have 2 cars with cng and did this on both. I now get better acceleration just as if i was running petrol.
The only problem i have to work out now is how to get the check engine light off for that unit.

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Re: Lets talk CNG

Postby Strugglerzinc » August 29th, 2020, 9:08 am

jerry88 wrote:Hey cng users
I just found out by troubleshooting.
I got the best performance from my engine on CNG when i disconnected the solenoid on the butterfly on the intake manifold that is close to the cylinder head. I have 2 cars with cng and did this on both. I now get better acceleration just as if i was running petrol.
The only problem i have to work out now is how to get the check engine light off for that unit.


So your throttle position sensor in which case the ecu dumping gas based on the MAF or MAP reading.

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Re: Lets talk CNG

Postby jerry88 » August 29th, 2020, 1:22 pm

Based on what i read about this butterfly , it is mainly for idle speed. I have seen on youtube that they remove these butterfly for better performance and hp.
I realized that that with it unplugged there is no lazy pull off again.

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Re: Lets talk CNG

Postby kamakazi » August 29th, 2020, 2:55 pm

What vehicles are those or specifically what engines are being run on CNG.
jerry88 wrote:Hey cng users
I just found out by troubleshooting.
I got the best performance from my engine on CNG when i disconnected the solenoid on the butterfly on the intake manifold that is close to the cylinder head. I have 2 cars with cng and did this on both. I now get better acceleration just as if i was running petrol.
The only problem i have to work out now is how to get the check engine light off for that unit.

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Re: Lets talk CNG

Postby Strugglerzinc » August 29th, 2020, 6:26 pm

jerry88 wrote:Based on what i read about this butterfly , it is mainly for idle speed. I have seen on youtube that they remove these butterfly for better performance and hp.
I realized that that with it unplugged there is no lazy pull off again.


Ok so its probably a VTCS or VICS or similar system being unplugged. If unplugging it has that effect then there is some other preexisting issue which is resolved by essentially turning it off.

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Re: Lets talk CNG

Postby nismotrinidappa » August 29th, 2020, 6:32 pm

Exactlyy... my cng acceleration is almost as good as petrol. As I said earlier. Clean your tb. In my case i installed a catch can to prevent blowby from fouling it again.

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Re: Lets talk CNG

Postby jerry88 » August 29th, 2020, 8:15 pm

kamakazi wrote:What vehicles are those or specifically what engines are being run on CNG.
jerry88 wrote:Hey cng users
I just found out by troubleshooting.
I got the best performance from my engine on CNG when i disconnected the solenoid on the butterfly on the intake manifold that is close to the cylinder head. I have 2 cars with cng and did this on both. I now get better acceleration just as if i was running petrol.
The only problem i have to work out now is how to get the check engine light off for that unit.



I have an ad with an HR15 engine and mazda 3 zy engine.

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