The Religion Discussion

[RBphoto]

Thinketh

[AdamB]

Dizzy,
Do you get paid twice at the end of the month?
Similarly Allah is not unjust to any of His creatures.
Bad deeds remain as they are (unit/one). Good deeds are multiplied ten fold. If you intend to to a good deed and don't do it, the reward is one good deed. If you intend a bad deed but don't do it, the reward is also one good deed.
SO MERCIFUL IS ALLAH TO HIS CREATION!!

Living a good life - doing good, being good does not depend on Religion. Seems unfair to punish someone who lived better than religious people just for not believing in a God.

I ask again:
Is not believing in Allah (GOD) a simple matter?

Does your logic above suggest that it is not unfair with the premise that what I am saying is true?

Certainly HE will not deal unjustly with anyone!

It is amusing to see you talk about logic.

Do you think Ghandi or Mother Theresa will be rewarded highly in paradise?and before you start to evade the question by stating Allah knows best and you cannot judge, I am asking what do YOU think. Please answer directly.

It is disturbing that God would reward someone more for believing in him, praying 5 times a day and not eating pork just because a book said so than someone who eats pork, drinks occasionally and does not pray 5 times a day who is helpful to humanity, gentle, honourable and trustworthy.

apparently wearing a dress, having a long beard, 4 subservient wives and having a history of violence and chronic entitlement is important to God.

what is the point in free-will if you have to do exactly as a book tells you to?

logic LOL

Yes we cannot judge. We cannot say specifically. But we can say in general that anyone who worshipped gods besides Allah will be in the fire of Hell!! Regardless of their deeds, that is what I know.

If a person dies following a religion other than Islam, then Paradise will be forbidden for him, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, whosoever sets up partners (in worship) with Allâh, then Allâh has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode” [al-Maa’idah 5:72]

Good deeds done by a person whilst he is a non-muslim will not benefit him in the Hereafter at all, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meanings):

“And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85]

“And We shall turn to whatever deeds they (disbelievers, polytheists, sinners) did, and We shall make such deeds as scattered floating particles of dust” [al-Furqaan 25:23]

“Those who deny Our Ayaat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) and the Meeting in the Hereafter (Day of Resurrection,), vain are their deeds. Are they requited with anything except what they used to do?” [al-A’raaf 7:147]

‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) asked the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) a question similar to that asked here. She (may Allaah be pleased with her) said: “O Messenger of Allaah, during the Jaahiliyyah Ibn Jud’aan used to uphold the ties of kinship and feed the poor. Will that be of any avail to him?” He said, “No, that will not be of any avail to him, because he never said ‘O Lord, forgive me my sins on the Day of Judgement.’” (Narrated by Imaam Muslim – may Allaah have mercy on him) in his Saheeh, 214).

But if the non-muslim never heard about Islam and Da’wah never reached him, then Allaah will test him on the Day of Resurrection. And Allaah knows best.
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

[AdamB]

Someone has asked me this question (she is about to
become a muslimah). Her statement: 'A lot of others will never meet a Muslim in person. Will they be held responsible for their ignorance? What exactly does this mean: "After the revelation of the Quran who ever receives this message & does not abide by it is a non-believer"?
i. Who is considered to have received the message?
ii. Isn't it possible for people to have not received the message even though the Quran is in existence?'


Praise be to Allaah.

It is part of the justice of Allaah that He does not punish any people until He has first sent a warning to them and unless there is evidence against them. Allaah does not treat anybody unfairly. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “… And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning).” [al-Israa’ 17:15].

In his tafseer (commentary) on this aayah, Ibn Katheer (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “These words, ‘…And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning)’ tell us of the justice of Allaah, may He be exalted, and that He does not punish anyone until after He has established evidence against him by sending a Messenger to him. This is like the aayat (interpretation of the meaning): ‘… Every time a group is cast therein [into Hell], its keeper will ask, “Did no warner come to you?” They will say, “Yes indeed; a warner did come to us, but we belied him and said: ‘Allaah never sent down anything (of revelation), you are only in great error.’”’ [al-Mulk 67:8] and: ‘And those who disbelieved will be driven to Hell in groups, till, when they reach it, the gates thereof will be opened (suddenly like a prison at the arrival of its prisoners). And its keepers will say, “Did not the Messengers come to you from yourselves, - reciting to you the Verses of your Lord, and warning you of the Meeting of this Day of yours?” They will say: “Yes, but the Word of torment has been justified against the disbelievers!”’ [al-Zumar 39:71]…”

A person who has never heard of Islam or the Prophet SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and who has never heard the message in its correct and true form, will not be punished by Allaah if he dies in a state of kufr (disbelief). If it were asked what his fate will be, the answer will be that Allaah will test him on the Day of Resurrection: if he obeys, he will enter Paradise and if he disobeys he will enter Hell. The evidence (daleel) for this is the hadeeth of al-Aswad ibn Saree’, who reported that the Prophet of Allaah SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There are four (who will protest) to Allaah on the Day of Resurrection: the deaf man who never heard anything, the insane man, the very old man, and the man who died during the fatrah (the interval between the time of ‘Eesaa (Jesus, upon whom be peace) and the time of Muhammad SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)). The deaf man will say, ‘O Lord, Islam came but I never heard anything.’ The insane man will say, ‘O Lord, Islam came but the children ran after me and threw stones at me.’ The very old man will say, ‘O Lord, Islam came but I did not understand anything.’ The man who died during the fatrah will say, ‘O Lord, no Messenger from You came to me.’ He will accept their promises of obedience, then word will be sent to them to enter the Fire. By the One in Whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, if they enter it, it will be cool and safe for them.”

According to another report, he said: “Whoever enters it, it will be cool and safe for him, and whoever does not enter it will be dragged to it.” (The hadeeth was reported by Imaam Ahmad and Ibn Hibbaan, and deemed saheeh by al-Albaani, Saheeh al-Jaami’, 881).

Everyone who hears the message of Islam in a sound and correct form (and rejects it), will have evidence aginst him. Whoever dies without having heard the message, or having heard it in a distorted form, then his case is in the hands of Allaah. Allaah knows best about His creation, and He will never treat anyone unfairly. And Allaah is All-Seer of His slaves.

Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

[TonyM]

^ your logic again.

People all over the world have received "messages" from Christ, Muhammad, Sai Baba, Vishnu, Buddha etc.

What makes one message better than the other? Because the messenger of the message said so? You expect a messenger to say his message is wrong?

on another note, this sounds familiar

If you start with a cage containing five monkeys and inside the
cage, hang a banana on a string from the top and then you place a set
of stairs under the banana, before long a monkey will go to the
stairs and climb toward the banana.

As soon as he touches the stairs, you spray all the other monkeys
with cold water.

After a while another monkey makes an attempt with same result ...
all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty soon when
another monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys will try
to prevent it.

Now, put the cold water away.

Remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new one.
The new monkey sees the banana and attempts to climb the
stairs.To his shock, all of the other monkeys beat the crap out of
him. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to
climb the stairs he will be assaulted.

Next, remove another of the original five monkeys, replacing it
with a new one.

The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous
newcomer takes part in the punishment...... with enthusiasm, because
he is now part of the "team".

Then, replace a third original monkey with a new one, followed by
the fourth, then the fifth. Every time the newest monkey takes to the
stairs he is attacked.

Now, the monkeys that are beating him up have no idea why they
were not permitted to climb the stairs. Neither do they know why they
are participating in the beating of the newest monkey.

Finally, having replaced all of the original monkeys, none of the
remaining monkeys will have ever been sprayed with cold water.
Nevertheless, not one of the monkeys will try to climb the stairway
for the banana.

Why, you ask? Because in their minds...that is the way it has
always been!

we seem to have alot of new monkeys here who depend on others to tell them what to think and how to act.

[AdamB]

^ your logic again.

People all over the world have received "messages" from Christ, Muhammad, Sai Baba, Vishnu, Buddha etc.

What makes one message better than the other? Because the messenger of the message said so? You expect a messenger to say his message is wrong?

quote]we seem to have alot of new monkeys here who depend on others to tell them what to think and how to act.

Well said TonyM, seeing as you joined tuner less than 3 months ago and has a whopping 12 posts under your belt!!!

[stickman]

This thread has become full of copypasta.

Do you think Ghandi or Mother Theresa will be rewarded highly in paradise?

Just to sidetrack a bit, Ghandi and Mother Theresa aren't so righteous as many think they are.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_21XD74JKHw

[bluefete]

Bluefete,
That's a really long article/series.

For those who advocate in that direction, I ask:
Are we to make / base our laws and codes of conduct according to what (wild) animals practise?

Are you then advocating for reversal of so-called EVOLUTION?

AdamB - That is my point. The only way scientists can justify homosexuality in humans is to try and show it is a common feature in the animal kingdom. Otherwise all the proponents have is human behaviour.

I do not believe that God created gay animals or gay people.

BTW, as we are discussing Islam - its customs and practices included, I found the following most interesting:

Wednesday, Feb 23, 2011 09:45 PM -0400

My awkward moments in Muslim prayer

It can be tricky practicing Islam. Have you ever tried to find the direction of Mecca in a Gap fitting room?

A Muslim who prays in public is like James Bond, but without the bling, sophisticated gadgets and entourage of gorgeous women eager to bed him. Both brilliantly fail at every attempt at stealth. Like the fictional secret agent, a Muslim, despite his best intentions and clandestine efforts, sticks out like a pink elephant when forced to offer his ritualistic prayer, salat, outside the comforting cocoon of his home or mosque.

Contrary to the fear-mongering asserted by professional Islamophobes, Muslim Americans do not wish to impose their religious practices and beliefs upon their non-Muslim neighbors. The reality is that most of us are simply trying to navigate the sometimes tricky — but often entertaining — balancing act of adhering to our religious values and rituals while avoiding societal awkwardness and being seen as modern-day Boo Radleys.

Each time I have to pray and am unable to find a secluded spot, I would love for a magic Muslim portal to open and take me away to a fantastic Greyskull castle. Here, I could pray in solitude, shielded from the curious eyes of fascinated and horrified observers and ride on an armored tiger named Battle Cat while drinking mango lassi from a diamond-encrusted goblet.

Unfortunately, I live in reality.

Instead, I discover I have 15 minutes left to pray the afternoon Asr prayer and I’m stuck in a crowded, Valley Fair mall in San Jose, Calif. Realizing that I’d probably be tazed and shot by Homeland Security if I decided to bust out my Arabic tai chi at the Orange Julius, I seek temporary refuge for my prayer woes in the most obvious location: the fitting room at the Gap.

I enter the clothing metropolis in a frantic state and pretend to peruse the fine clothing merchandise. I randomly pick up some accessories and head toward the fitting room stalls only to realize that I am holding skinny female jeans and a Size 2, purple dress. I hastily dump the incorrect clothing on a wooden bench — making sure no one saw me — and run to the men’s section. I decide to play “pretend” and pick up hip, expensive clothing I’d probably never wear in real life and lug the stylish suit, jacket and jeans to the fitting room.

After waiting five minutes due to the long line, the ridiculously good-looking female employee directs me to a fitting stall. I cannot bring myself to make eye contact with her lest I confess my ruse. I rush into the stall and hang the clothes on the wall and devise a complex and sophisticated strategy to secretly pray while “pretending” to try on hip, urban garments. I make sure to create as much noise as possible when changing my pants from the brown, Docker, uncle khakis to the hipster jeans so they don’t suspect my celestial intentions.

I leave the rumbled pants on the floor, along with my shoes and my outer shirt, as visible signs of evidence that I am indeed using this fitting room for normal fitting room purposes.

Now, all I have to figure out is which way is Northeast, because Muslims pray toward Mecca, and this event occurred BIP — before iPhone. I basically do an “eeny-meeny-miney-mo” with the four corners and go with my “gut,” and decided “Mecca” was probably somewhere in the corner nearest to the stall door.

All is well until the prostration, where Muslims have to touch their forehead and nose to the ground. As I’m about to go to the floor, I was overwhelmed with a sense of comfort — I honestly thought I had created a successful camouflage using limited means with limited time. I felt proud and complimented myself on being a pretty dope, on-the-fly, Pakistani, Muslim American James Bond.

My head and knees are now on the floor next to the gap in the door, and everything is going smoothly. I glance to my left and the Gap employee, having bent down, is now staring at me and asking, “Sir, is everything all right?”

F my life.

I quickly finish my prayer, mumble, “Everything is fine! Just fine!” I change my clothes and exit the door to find two Gap employees and a several customers staring at me with concern and confusion in their eyes.

“Just, uh, was praying, yeah, uh, Muslim. We, uh, five times … a day … needed space. Used the stall. Not having a heart attack. Don’t worry. Just thought — yeah, OK! Thanks!”

And I peace out like Flash, running for the exit door and deliberately trying to get lost in the crowd and become a brown blurry dot so as to outwit the imagined Gap security chasing after me.

Other classic awkward moments include the following memorable gems:

• The San Francisco Abercrombie and Fitch fitting room where the ridiculously good-looking female employee again asked me, “Are you OK?”

• The Century 21 Winchester movie theater parking lot, where hundreds of movie patrons exited the packed screening of “Mission Impossible 2″ only to find three brown men praying outside the exit door, next to the garbage cans. (Thank you, Adil, for that brilliant idea.)

• The allegedly dark, closed-off corner in AMC Metreon in San Francisco while waiting in a crowded line to see “The Lord of the Rings” — the corner was neither dark nor closed-off, and you can imagine the rest.

• Praying as a group along with several brown friends during the seventh inning of an Oakland A’s baseball game in between a closed-off escalator and a hot dog stand, and protected by an African-American park employee who said, “You all go ahead and pray. I was married to a Muslim man … once.”

• And, finally, my favorite was our extremely well planned and brilliantly executed two-minute prayer drill while visiting Alcatraz prison. We found a hidden room with antiques and I was the initial watchman, standing outside the door, vigilantly keeping an eye out for the tour group that was hovering around the corner about to bust in on our private prayer session.

In the years since these colorful incidents, some confused and ignorant Americans have begun protesting the construction of mosques in America, citing their presence as fundamentally alien to American values and proof of a Muslim takeover. Along the way, these misguided individuals seem to have forgotten the First Amendment and cultural values celebrating diversity and freedom of religion. Preventing the construction of mosques (like the recent controversy in California) will have no effect on stealth jihadists. However, it will unleash a far greater problem for America: a horde of Muslim Americans awkwardly praying in public.

http://www.salon.com/writer/wajahat_ali/

[Daran]

Well of course God didn't create homosexuals....God doesn't exist. Evolution, genetics and perhaps even upbringing (who knows) creates homosexuals.

However, if you're using you little fairy tales to explain the world, why did God create asexuals amd hermaphrodites?

[bluefete]

Tuesday, Feb 21, 2012 09:00 PM -0400

Welcome to the first annual celebrity religion swap

Leaders of the world's most powerful faiths convene to trade their famous converts -- and improve their image

By Wajahat Ali

Muslims worldwide groaned upon hearing the news that Oliver Stone’s son, Sean, converted to Islam while filming a documentary in Iran.

Although we — the collective 1.5 billion Muslims worldwide — assume Sean Stone is a fine, upstanding man and sincerely wish him spiritual contentment, we earnestly ask Allah why Islam only attracts controversial celebs (in this case, the son of a controversial celeb) who further tarnish our already toxic brand name?

We plead to the heavens for an answer as to why he converted in Iran, of all places, which is currently the most feared and loathed country in America and about as popular as herpes.

We have patiently endured, oh, Allah.

We miraculously survived Mike Tyson, who converted to Islam while incarcerated, and then angrily threatened Lennox Lewis in an infamous interview: “I want your heart. I will eat his children. Praise be to Allah.”

Awesome.

Islam has the lowest favorability rating of any religion in America. If Islam were a world economy, it would be Greece. If it were a professional athlete, it would be San Francisco 49ers punt returner Kyle Williams, who muffed two critical punts, which helped the New York Giants reach the Super Bowl. If Islam went to the prom, it would be the ugly girl with freckles and an overbite standing in the corner with a bucket of pig’s blood teetering precariously over its head. If Islam were a Republican presidential candidate, it would be Newt Gingrich.

A diverse jirga of American Muslim leaders decided “enough was enough” and held an emergency meeting at Lowes’ Home Improvement store in Dearborn, Mich., to strategize how to bolster Islam’s faltering image.

A consensus emerged that we needed to draft popular, mainstream celebrities whose successful addition to our starting lineup would boost our international brand name. After all, 1,400 years of civilization and the religious practices of 1.5 billion solely rest on the tanned shoulders of the rich, famous and beautiful.

Inspired by comedian Dave Chappelle, one of the few Muslim converts who could be considered a net gain, the Muslims held a “Religious Draft” this week, inviting major religions to participate on hallowed ground: McDonald’s.

The following is a summary of the proceedings.

THE FIRST ROUND PICK

Since it was universally accepted Islam was the 2011 Indianapolis Colts of world religions, they had first pick.

Predictably, the Muslims drafted free agent Liam Neeson, who recently said, “There are 4,000 mosques in [Istanbul]. Some are just stunning and it really makes me think about becoming a Muslim.” The Irish actor is experiencing a pop cultural rebirth as the 21st century embodiment of uncompromising, kick-ass masculinity and sage paternalism. On behalf of Muslims, he took revenge against France, which recently caved into hysteria and banned the burqa. Neeson single-handedly destroyed the entire country with his bare fists in the blockbuster action film “Taken.” Muslims believe Neeson will help rebrand them as Jedi Knights, due to his portrayal of Jedi Qui-Gon in “Star Wars: The Phantom Menace,” and replace their current image as Dark Lords of the Sith.

Rumors circulated that many Evangelical Christians felt slighted by this pick since Muslims stole their digital Avatar of Jesus: Neeson voices “Aslan the Lion” from the “Narnia” movies.

The rest of the day’s picks were organized according to different types of celebrity.

ATHLETES

In a surprise move, the Buddhists requested Mike Tyson from the Muslims. Exhausted from voluntarily suffering for the past 2,500 years, the Buddhists decided Tyson’s crushing right uppercut could “really eff up China.”

In turn, the Buddhists decided to offer the Beastie Boys — the aging, versatile, hip-hop trio from Brooklyn – sensing they peaked with their 1998 “Hello Nasty” album. The Muslims accepted, acknowledging the songs “Sabotage” and “Shake Your Rump” as perennial favorites in Egypt and Lebanon.

The Buddhists selflessly threw in Richard Gere and DVD copies of “American Gigolo” to sweeten the deal.

The Jews intervened and said they wanted the Beastie Boys back on their team. They offered the Muslims Ben Roethlisberger, two-time Super Bowl champion quarterback of the Pittsburgh Steelers. Having read about Big Ben’s dubious history of sexual impropriety, the Muslims passed, but decided to donate Mike D of the Beastie Boys to the Jews as a truce offering. Allegedly, the Muslims could never forgive Mike D for the horribly weak rhyme “Everybody rappin’ like it’s a commercial, acting like life is a big commercial” on the song “Pass the Mic.”

The Jews accepted the offer.

The Muslims, feeling emboldened, made an ambitious pitch to the Christians for Denver Broncos quarterback Tim Tebow, who “just wins.”

Muslims offered former NBA all-star Shaquille O’Neal, who fell from their graces after he acted as a giant genie in the box-office bomb “Kazaam.” They also threw in Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf, the controversial Denver Nuggets star who converted to Islam and refused to stand for “The Star-Spangled Banner” before games. The Christians were initially enticed, seeing this as a perfect “born-again” moment, but they passed.

The Muslims went aggressive and promised they wouldn’t supplant the Constitution with Shariah and replace the White House with minarets unless Tebow and Mel Gibson crossed over.

The Christians, anxious to excommunicate Gibson, agreed. For the 2012 NFL season, Tebowing will now consist of prostrating and praising Allah after every touchdown. The Christians asked the Muslims to preserve Tebow’s chastity and not introduce him to Miss USA Rima Fakih or hot Arab women from the reality TV show “All-American Muslim”; the Muslims said they’d try, but they promised nothing.

COMEDIANS

The Jews made a play for comedian Dave Chappelle, a Muslim, citing his hit series on Comedy Central “Chappelle’s Show” as a creative juggernaut that still influences the masses — especially several rabbis, who apparently love saying, “I’m Rick James, beyotch!” after performing circumcisions.

The Muslims immediately rejected the offer, saying Chappelle is perhaps the only living proof that Muslims can be intentionally funny.

Instead, they offered Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad as an example of an unintentional comedian and provocateur in exchange for Israel cooling down its dangerous rhetoric of a preemptive strike on Iran.

Furthermore, the Muslims offered the newly acquired Mel Gibson straight up for Jerry Seinfeld.

The Mormons tried to intercept Seinfeld by playing one of their highest cards: “Napoleon Dynamite” actor Jon Heder. The Jews pretended not to hear this mockery and allowed the Mormons to slink away with some shred of remaining dignity.

The Jews finalized a deal with the Muslims and rumors have circulated since that Mel and Ahmadinejad are under house arrest in Tel Aviv, forced to watch “The Chosen” and “Fiddler on the Roof” on repeat while listening to Jerry Lewis perform comedy.

MUSICIANS

Sensing friendly relations, the Jews humbly approached the Muslims for rapper Ice Cube, citing his immense street cred and respect from the hip-hop and African-American communities. The Jews conceded the Matisyahu experiment, although initially promising, had failed, as the Hasidic reggae rapper never lived up to his “King Without a Crown” potential.

The Muslims mulled it over for a considerable time. The jirga decided they would retain eternal rights to Cube’s 1993 hit single “It Was a Good Day” from his multi-platinum album “Predator,” but ultimately release him because he inexplicably starred in the awful family comedy “Are We There Yet?”

Muslims in return asked the Jews for Kabbalah-worshipping Madonna, sensing serious comeback potential after her excellent Super Bowl halftime show.

Catholics made a request for multi-talented actor and hip-hop artist Mos Def from the Muslims, who soundly rejected any and all future offers, stating the entirety of the Middle East and North Africa could never bear to part with Def’s song “Ms. Fat Booty.”

Instead, Muslims counter-offered with alternative rock artist Everlast, whose 1998 single “What It’s Like” has made a surprising comeback on radio stations due to the economic recession. The Catholics still remember Everlast as the lead singer of the hip-hop band House of Pain, who produced the classic party anthem “Jump Around,” before his conversion to Islam. The Catholics accepted; South Asian Muslims danced to “Jump Around” one last time; and the Muslims in return received Taylor Swift and her legions of pubescent female fans, along with her former boyfriend Taylor Lautner, who played the ethnic werewolf in the “Twilight” movies.

The Muslims had finally secured their most promising young-adult celebrity.

POLITICIANS

The Mormons halfheartedly offered Mitt Romney. The Evangelicals promised Michele Bachmann and her lifetime supply of blinks. The Catholics, out of sheer desperation and embarrassment, bartered Newt Gingrich and his third wife, Callista.

The Muslims decided to stick with their boy, Barack Hussein Obama, in hopes of retaining the White House in 2012.

MISCELLANEOUS

Muslims threw a Hail Mary and asked fundamentalist Christians for Chuck Norris, who so thoroughly kicked the Middle East’s entire ass during the ’80s. The Muslims respected Norris for his ability to fire an Uzi, perform a roundhouse kick and wave an American flag at the same time. In return, Muslims offered the infamous WWF wrestler the Iron Sheikh and even agreed to teach the Christians the impregnable camel clutch. Norris, humbled by the offer, respectfully declined, and admitted that although he enjoyed killing hordes of fictional Arabs in jingoistic action movies like “Delta Force,” he currently fancied himself an intellectual and activist committed to exposing the nonexistent threat of Shariah infiltrating America. The Muslims were saddened, but collectively agreed to watch Norris in the summer action film “Expendables 2.”

The Hindus decided to play their strongest card, actress Julia Roberts, and made a request for journalist Lauren Booth, former British Prime Minister Tony Blair’s sister in law, who converted to Islam in 2010. The Hindus saw her as the perfect revenge and giant, henna-painted middle finger to England for the British Empire’s previous colonization and exploitation of India’s resources. The Muslims thought this was reasonable and now the “Pretty Woman” flashes her million-dollar smile behind a burqa.

THE CHOSEN ONE

Finally, the draft ended with all the religions coveting “the chosen one,” who would single-handedly redeem their public image both at home and abroad.

The Mormons offered former Republican presidential candidate Jon Huntsman, highlighting his excellent Chinese and fine hair. The Muslims initially offered NBA Hall of Famer and current cultural ambassador Kareem Abdul Jabbar. They sweetened the deal and threw in President Obama. The Jews presented Steven Spielberg and his entire film library. The Hindus humbly offered Bollywood actors Amitabh Bachan, Aishwarya Rai and a picture of Gandhi signed by Ben Kingsley. The Buddhists presented Tina Turner, Herbie Hancock and Tiger Woods.

But, it was sadly to no avail.

The Christians and Church of New York decided to keep NBA superstar and New York Knicks point guard Jeremy Lin. Rumors circulated that they were talking to China about a potential trade to ensure the ambitious superpower does not ask the United States to repay its debt, thus financially crippling and utterly destroying our great nation.

All in all, “it was a good day” for the Muslims in the first Religious Draft.

http://www.salon.com/2012/02/22/welcome ... gion_swap/

[Dizzy28]

Dizzy,
Do you get paid twice at the end of the month?
Similarly Allah is not unjust to any of His creatures.
Bad deeds remain as they are (unit/one). Good deeds are multiplied ten fold. If you intend to to a good deed and don't do it, the reward is one good deed. If you intend a bad deed but don't do it, the reward is also one good deed.
SO MERCIFUL IS ALLAH TO HIS CREATION!!

Living a good life - doing good, being good does not depend on Religion. Seems unfair to punish someone who lived better than religious people just for not believing in a God.

I ask again:
Is not believing in Allah (GOD) a simple matter?

Does your logic above suggest that it is not unfair with the premise that what I am saying is true?

Certainly HE will not deal unjustly with anyone!

It is amusing to see you talk about logic.

Do you think Ghandi or Mother Theresa will be rewarded highly in paradise?and before you start to evade the question by stating Allah knows best and you cannot judge, I am asking what do YOU think. Please answer directly.

It is disturbing that God would reward someone more for believing in him, praying 5 times a day and not eating pork just because a book said so than someone who eats pork, drinks occasionally and does not pray 5 times a day who is helpful to humanity, gentle, honourable and trustworthy.

apparently wearing a dress, having a long beard, 4 subservient wives and having a history of violence and chronic entitlement is important to God.

what is the point in free-will if you have to do exactly as a book tells you to?

logic LOL

Yes we cannot judge. We cannot say specifically. But we can say in general that anyone who worshipped gods besides Allah will be in the fire of Hell!! Regardless of their deeds, that is what I know.

If a person dies following a religion other than Islam, then Paradise will be forbidden for him, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, whosoever sets up partners (in worship) with Allâh, then Allâh has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode” [al-Maa’idah 5:72]

Good deeds done by a person whilst he is a non-muslim will not benefit him in the Hereafter at all, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meanings):

“And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85]

“And We shall turn to whatever deeds they (disbelievers, polytheists, sinners) did, and We shall make such deeds as scattered floating particles of dust” [al-Furqaan 25:23]

“Those who deny Our Ayaat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) and the Meeting in the Hereafter (Day of Resurrection,), vain are their deeds. Are they requited with anything except what they used to do?” [al-A’raaf 7:147]

‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) asked the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) a question similar to that asked here. She (may Allaah be pleased with her) said: “O Messenger of Allaah, during the Jaahiliyyah Ibn Jud’aan used to uphold the ties of kinship and feed the poor. Will that be of any avail to him?” He said, “No, that will not be of any avail to him, because he never said ‘O Lord, forgive me my sins on the Day of Judgement.’” (Narrated by Imaam Muslim – may Allaah have mercy on him) in his Saheeh, 214).

But if the non-muslim never heard about Islam and Da’wah never reached him, then Allaah will test him on the Day of Resurrection. And Allaah knows best.
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

Jim Jones eh wha nothing with this!!!

[AdamB]

^ your logic again.

People all over the world have received "messages" from Christ, Muhammad, Sai Baba, Vishnu, Buddha etc.

What makes one message better than the other? Because the messenger of the message said so? You expect a messenger to say his message is wrong?

How about authenticity of the message?

How about the message neither changed nor "corrected" by man?

How about previous messenger were sent to their people at their time only?

How about GOD promising to preserve this last message from corruption by man?

How about the message memorized word for word, letter for letter by millions of people?

How about the challenge to bring something like it by way of poetry?

How about the message still exists in the original language in which it was revealed?

How about the original language of previous messages don't?

How about the message NOT BETTER BUT RELEVANT to our time at present and for all time to come?

How about the message sent to ALL OF MANKIND?

How about Sai Baba claimed to be GOD and where is he now?

How about there being REAL PHYSICAL AND HISTORICAL EVIDENCE of existence of the messenger and the message?

How about you consider those before you put your foot in your mouth again?

[AdamB]

TonyM Seems like God is a troll.

This one for you Daran,

Meaning of troll from Collins World English Dictionary:
9. slang computing a person who submits deliberately inflammatory articles to an internet discussion

Seems you describing yourself!!

[AdamB]

Well of course God didn't create homosexuals....God doesn't exist. Evolution, genetics and perhaps even upbringing (who knows) creates homosexuals. Your choice of words indicate that you are uncertain, in doubt. The Quran affirms that disbelievers are in doubt.
In their hearts is a disease (of doubt and hypocrisy) and Allah has increased their disease. A painful torment is theirs because they used to tell lies.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #10)

However, if you're using you little fairy tales to explain the world, why did God create asexuals amd hermaphrodites?

A man in a non-Muslim country was suffering psychologically because he believed that he was a woman. In an attempt to treat himself he got married and had a son, but that did not solve the problem. In the end, he had an operation to remove the male genitalia and after that he lived as a woman. Ten years later, he become Muslim after getting to know a Muslim woman over the internet, who spoke to him on the basis that he was a woman and not a man. When she found out that this woman had once been a man, she got confused. Now she does not know whether she should deal with her as a woman (in all senses) or what?
If this “man-woman” wants to come and visit her in Saudi, should she offer her hospitality as a man or as a woman… or should she not bother offering him hospitality?
Please note that he/she needs someone to support him/her in Islam, because he/she is still comes under the heading of those whose hearts have recently been reconciled to the truth. Islam is not yet firmly established in his heart, and we are afraid that not showing hospitality towards her in her house will be an impediment or may even cause him/her to leave Islam. No one wants to bear the responsibility for that.


Praise be to Allaah.

These people who hate the sex with which they were created and wish that they were of the other sex, are in fact mentally ill. It may be caused by a bad upbringing in some cases, and by the nature of the society in which they live in other cases, which makes them hate the way they are. So they object to the decree of Allaah and they want to change their sex from one to the other.

There may be some (acceptable) reasons for having a sex-change operation that turns one from a male into a female. But what is mentioned in the question is no more than a wish or a desire, although the male genitalia were complete. It is not a case of what the fuqaha’ call al-khuntha (hermaphrodite). Rather this person is naturally male, with all the attributes of masculinity, but he wants to turn into a female, so he has surgery to remove the penis and testicles, then the doctors construct a vagina and increase the size of the breasts, and administer hormone injections over a lengthy period until the voice becomes softer and the distribution of fat on the body changes, and the person appears outwardly to be female, but in fact he is a male.

This operation is haraam in Islam, according to all the reputable contemporary scholars. The earlier scholars did not discuss it because it was not known and was not possible during their time. The fact that it is forbidden is indicated by a number of things, including the following:

Firstly: the verses in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

‘They (all those who worship others than Allaah) invoke nothing but female deities besides Him (Allaah), and they invoke nothing but Shaytaan (Satan), a persistent rebel!

118. Allaah cursed him. And he [Shaytaan (Satan)] said: “I will take an appointed portion of your slaves.

119. “Verily, I will mislead them, and surely, I will arouse in them false desires; and certainly, I will order them to slit the ears of cattle, and indeed I will order them to change the nature created by Allaah.” And whoever takes Shaytaan (Satan) as a Wali (protector or helper) instead of Allaah, has surely, suffered a manifest loss.

120. He [Shaytaan (Satan)] makes promises to them, and arouses in them false desires; and Shaytaan’s (Satan) promises are nothing but deceptions.

121. The dwelling of such (people) is Hell, and they will find no way of escape from it’

[al-Nisa’ 4:117-121]

Undoubtedly doing such operations is a kind of toying with and changing the creation of Allaah.

Secondly: It is proven in al-Saheeh that ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) cursed men who imitate women and women who imitate men. Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 5546.

Ibn Hajar said: For men to imitate women and women to imitate men, deliberately and by choice, is haraam according to scholarly consensus.

Thirdly: the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade hermaphrodites to enter upon women, if they pay attention to women and their charms, and he ordered that they be banned from living among people so as to guard against their evil.

Imam al-Bukhaari included this hadeeth in two chapters: (1) under the heading: “It is forbidden for men who resemble women to enter upon women” and (2) under the heading: “Expelling men who resemble women from people’s houses.”

Ibn Hajar said: What we learn from this is that women should observe hijab before those hermaphrodites who pay attention to women's charms, and that they should be banned from living among people, as a means to deter them. And it seems that doing this is obligatory.

Fourthly: According to specialist doctors, this kind of operation is not indicated by any kind of sound medical evidence, and it is no more than the matter of personal whims and desires.

And there is other evidence which indicates that it is haraam. For more information, please see the book Ahkaam al-Jaraahah al-Tibbiyyah, p. 199

Dr Muhammad ‘Ali al-Barr said: Although the outward appearance of such a person may deceive you into thinking that he is female, in fact his biological structure remains male, even if it has been obliterated completely. Moreover, there is no ovary or uterus and such a person cannot menstruate or get pregnant at all.

Based on the above, it is not permissible under any circumstances for a woman to be alone with him, or to uncover or take off her hijab in front of him, because he is in fact male, even though he may now feel attracted towards males, because of the many female hormones in his system. Undoubtedly these people are worse than the hermaphrodites whom the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade to enter upon men, and ordered that they be banned from living among the people.

Hence it may be more appropriate for more than one person to meet with him, and to take him to a trustworthy psychologist who can treat his illness. We ask Allaah to guide him and set his affairs straight.

You could speak to a trustworthy Shaykh or seeker of knowledge, and ask him to receive this person and teach him about his religion and its rulings, and strengthen his ties with Islam and help him to grow steadfast in his faith. This should be done in the presence of more than one person. You should also understand that after doing as much as you can for this person, guidance is in the hand of Allaah; He guides whomsoever He will of His slaves. And Allaah knows best.

[MG Man]

And human diversity and varying mental capacities have nothing to do with it?

adamB?

[Dizzy28]

And human diversity and varying mental capacities have nothing to do with it?

adamB?

Probably still looking for a quote or passage from somewhere on this issue that he can cut and paste.

[AdamB]

MG,
If someone is mentally incapacitated they belong to an asylum for treatment.

It can just as easily be said that bad or evil is part of human diversity, so why not make legal crime and murder?

Why do you then have a problem with muslims wanting to harness nuclear power. That's human diversity too.

Why doesn't France (once known for LIBERTY, EQUALITY AND FRATERNITY) allow muslim women to wear their head covering? That's human diversity too.

The things that are impermissible (haraam) in Islam have negative social consequences. That's the wisdom in them.

[MG Man]

MG,
If someone is mentally incapacitated they belong to an asylum for treatment.

It can just as easily be said that bad or evil is part of human diversity, so why not make legal crime and murder?

Why do you then have a problem with muslims wanting to harness nuclear power. That's human diversity too.

Why doesn't France (once known for LIBERTY, EQUALITY AND FRATERNITY) allow muslim women to wear their head covering? That's human diversity too.

The things that are impermissible (haraam) in Islam have negative social consequences. That's the wisdom in them.

where did I say mentally incapacitated?
All I am alluding to is the fact that no mater how simple, clear or concise any religious book, not everyone will be able to make exactly the same sense of it.........in a class of 26 children, do they all learn and understand at the same rate?
In a class of 26 adults, do they all learn and understand in exactly the same way?
Where did I draw extreme examples of crime and murder?

[Dizzy28]

MG,
If someone is mentally incapacitated they belong to an asylum for treatment.

It can just as easily be said that bad or evil is part of human diversity, so why not make legal crime and murder?

Why do you then have a problem with muslims wanting to harness nuclear power. That's human diversity too.

Why doesn't France (once known for LIBERTY, EQUALITY AND FRATERNITY) allow muslim women to wear their head covering? That's human diversity too.

The things that are impermissible (haraam) in Islam have negative social consequences. That's the wisdom in them.

So the whole world must bend for Islam but yet in all these Islamic countries there are hard and fast rules that cannot be broken. If a Muslim women really needs to wear her hijab then why choose France? Go to Niger, Mali, Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia etc. Oh yea I forgot...Islamic countries aren't necessarily the best places on Earth to live.

What is the negative consequences of eating pork?

[Daran]

Is a women allowed to wear a short skirt and show cleavge in saudi?

If not, then why complain about France.

And AdamB, you have not answered my question on why atheist countries have so much higher standards of living and are so much more peaceful.

[Daran]

Is a women allowed to wear a short skirt and show cleavge in saudi?

If not, then why complain about France.

And AdamB, you have not answered my question on why atheist countries have so much higher standards of living and are so much more peaceful.

[MG Man]

Why doesn't France (once known for LIBERTY, EQUALITY AND FRATERNITY) allow muslim women to wear their head covering? That's human diversity too..

you really do have a hard time understanding and comprehending, don't you (which reinforces my point)
Anyways, I was referring to human diversity in terms of our biochemistry and ability to comprehend, understand etc
Your French example relates to social and cultural diversity and is something completely different.....

[thermaltake]

Allaah says, in Qur'an
This day, I have perfected your religion for you,
completed My Favour upon you,
and have chosen for you Islâm as your religion.

(Al-Maeda-3)

[MG Man]

point being?

[thermaltake]

//////////]

[thermaltake]

there are some questions in the grave that google will not be able to answer...

[Daran]

Allaah says, in Qur'an
This day, I have perfected your religion for you,
completed My Favour upon you,
and have chosen for you Islâm as your religion.

(Al-Maeda-3)

well if its written in a book it must be true

[stickman]

//////////]

[Daran]

If religious people want to live your closed little worlds where all the answers are already there, then fine by me. I prefer to seek out the answers to human and the universe's complexity. They are great mysteries which I love reading about.

I can express how much a of a disservice you are doing to yourself by being religious. If in the end there turns out to be a God, I think he'd appreciate and reward people like myself for not wasting their life on earth.

[MG Man]

I'd leave islam alone but those local ones too damn nasty
the mosque that my mother goes to seems unusually obsessed with hinduism...........they can't stop talking about how hindus pray to statues, the devil etc etc etc
You'd think they'd have better things to do than invoke intolerance towards one of the more benign religions out there.............btw my dad is hindu..............sad thing is my mom will NOT question some sheit they spew or correct some of the gross untruths because she knows they will probably throw her out.........I just chuckle

[Dizzy28]

I'd leave islam alone but those local fcuks too damn nasty
the mosque that my mother goes to seems unusually obsessed with hinduism...........they can't stop talking about how hindus pray to statues, the devil etc etc etc
You'd think they'd have better things to do than invoke intolerance towards one of the more benign religions out there.............btw my dad is hindu..............sad thing is my mom will NOT question some sheit they spew or correct some of the gross untruths because she knows they will probably throw her out.........I just chuckle

MG Man is 1/2 madinga