The Religion Discussion

[AdamB]

“Touching them both [the Black Stone and al-Rukn al-Yamani] is an expiation for sins.”

If a person is unable to do the above, then he can point to it with his hand and say “Allaahu akbar”.

from above AdamB

2. expiation - the act of atoning for sin or wrongdoing (especially appeasing a deity)expiation - the act of atoning for sin or wrongdoing

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/expiation

soooooooooo...........praying to allah is not enough?

The rituals of Hajj are all forms of worship in that we follow the leadership of our prophet.

If everyone tried to touch or kiss the Black Stone, then there would be overcrowding, pushing, tugging, trampling and possibly loss of lives. The idea is to come as close as reasonably possible to following the prophet without negative effects. That's where the pointing came in.

Even if the Black Stone was from Heaven or Paradise, we do not worship that. We worship only the ONE who created it and created everything that exists.

If any muslim errs and falls into the trap of Satan thereby worshipping the Black Stone, then may Allah guide him back to the truth.

ENUFF SAID??

[AdamB]

from what i gather - religious activities that require some sort of self sacrifice obtain higher atonement points than just praying.....

We have no means of measuring the intangible. We can only reason and say that "atonement points" for stoning to death is possibly more than cutting off of the hand, for instance.

However, repentance still requires for the person to acknowledge the sin, feel sorry/regret, ask for forgiveness (sincerely) and promise not to go back to it. This is personal and belongs in the heart. No one except GOD knows what resides there.

[16 cycles]

^if the reasoning is to worship the Creator rather than the creation, then why go to the trouble of pointing to that particular stone in that place?

[AdamB]

....the Stone will testify in favour of those who touched it in sincerity, which is not the case when a person touches it by disturbing the slaves of Allaah

can someone please explain the history behind the stone? was it the birthplace of a prophet? - i get the significance of it from the quoted section - no probs there...

please in your own words...........i not up to reading exceptionally long prose from scholars.....one day maybe.....

edit: nevermind - read the post back to front and understood..........serious talk...

For those who have understanding and whose hearts are not blackened by disobedience / sins (blackened like the Black Stone...ironic)

[stickman]

There is absolutely no problems with Islam. The problem exists with man's lack of understanding and subsequent criticism. It's natural to criticize that which opposes your belief. Disbelief criticizing belief? If you don't believe in it, then leave it alone.

Islam was perfected over 1400 yrs ago and no amount of modern science, critical thinking or theology can make it better or disprove it.

There are many problems with Islam. There are moral issues and inconsistencies within the Quran, not to mention Muhammad's disgusting lifestyle. We understand it, that's why we criticize it, we're not blindly criticizing it (that would be a form of faith IMO).

Do you have any proof Islam is perfect? I think you are going in circles on this message board.

Take up your moral issues with the LORD of Everything that Exists!

As for your comment on the lifestyle of Muhammad (saw), He was called the Trustworthy One by his enemies who also left valuables with him to keep safe. By the revelation, mercy and guidance from GOD, in the Arabian society he was able to:
stop idolatry,
stop economic oppression from usury,
stop persons giving short measure in business transactions (trading),
stop burying of girl children alive by their fathers,
stop consumption of alcohol and intoxicants,
stop oppression against women by granting safety to them via marriage,
TO NAME A FEW.

WHAT A DISGUSTING LIFESTYLE!! TAKE A LOOK AT YOUR OWN IN COMPARISON.

He also was a pedophile and a child molester, he had a six year old bride and consummated the marriage when she was nine years old, but that's part of the story; various hadith confirmed that before she was 9 years old he molested her.

It disgusts me how any person can call this man the perfect human being, yet even look up to him.

Also: http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur%27an,_Had ... lars:Aisha
And if you don't trust these sites, read the hadith from a trusted source.

[Gladiator]

There is absolutely no problems with Islam. The problem exists with man's lack of understanding and subsequent criticism. It's natural to criticize that which opposes your belief. Disbelief criticizing belief? If you don't believe in it, then leave it alone.

Islam was perfected over 1400 yrs ago and no amount of modern science, critical thinking or theology can make it better or disprove it.

There are many problems with Islam. There are moral issues and inconsistencies within the Quran, not to mention Muhammad's disgusting lifestyle. We understand it, that's why we criticize it, we're not blindly criticizing it (that would be a form of faith IMO).

Do you have any proof Islam is perfect? I think you are going in circles on this message board.

Take up your moral issues with the LORD of Everything that Exists!

As for your comment on the lifestyle of Muhammad (saw), He was called the Trustworthy One by his enemies who also left valuables with him to keep safe. By the revelation, mercy and guidance from GOD, in the Arabian society he was able to:
stop idolatry,
stop economic oppression from usury,
stop persons giving short measure in business transactions (trading),
stop burying of girl children alive by their fathers,
stop consumption of alcohol and intoxicants,
stop oppression against women by granting safety to them via marriage,
TO NAME A FEW.

WHAT A DISGUSTING LIFESTYLE!! TAKE A LOOK AT YOUR OWN IN COMPARISON.

He also was a pedophile and a child molester, he had a six year old bride and consummated the marriage when she was nine years old, but that's part of the story; various hadith confirmed that before she was 9 years old he molested her.

It disgusts me how any person can call this man the perfect human being, yet even look up to him.

Also: http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur%27an,_Had ... lars:Aisha
And if you don't trust these sites, read the hadith from a trusted source.

^^^What kinda sick $h1T is that

[Humes]

I've avoided that topic in the past because it's always felt like an out-of-context low blow against Muslims, but now that I've read it through in detail...

Wow. That is some sick, fcked-up sht.

Amusement turning to disgust. I starting to feel more sorry for the defenders than anything. Real denial goin on here.

[Humes]

The last few pages of this thread just take on a whole different tone for me after reading that, yes. Is mad, sick people we really dealin with out here.

[thermaltake]

“Touching them both [the Black Stone and al-Rukn al-Yamani] is an expiation for sins.”

If a person is unable to do the above, then he can point to it with his hand and say “Allaahu akbar”.

from above AdamB

2. expiation - the act of atoning for sin or wrongdoing (especially appeasing a deity)expiation - the act of atoning for sin or wrongdoing

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/expiation

soooooooooo...........praying to allah is not enough?

padna Islam doesn't require us to kiss the black stone... CUZ i tink u kinda confuse...

[Humes]

could anybody in this entire forum tell me one fault about 'ISLAM'? just one....

The man totally ignore the pedophilia issue, yes. Incredible.

AdamB's rant on that topic should be insightful.

[Daran]

Islam is a evil plague that if not stopped, will send humanity back to hundreds of years.

There is no peaceful way islam can exist with the rest of the world. It is a religion (like many others) that not only promotes divisiveness. But promotes radical thinking that preys on the weak minded to become violent against anything they perceive is against their religion.

It's really quiet stupid.

The world would be an entirely better place if Muslims were not around. Or at least learned to tone down their ranting and silly little grievances against cartoons and the 'libleral free western world'.

This also goes for any other fundamental cult/religion that promotes this type of segregation in modern society.

[Daran]

And Mohammed was a very sick, warlike, pedo that should not be revered, are you all so blind to not see what you believe is crock of sh*t?

[16 cycles]

why the thread turning into a persecution of a particular faith?

[MG Man]

why the thread turning into a persecution of a particular faith?

same reason it was a christian-bashing ched several pages ago..........when the loonies come out and proclaim their faith is the only way and all others are hell and damnation, what do you expect?

[Humes]

why the thread turning into a persecution of a particular faith?

[AdamB]

Islam is a evil plague that if not stopped, will send humanity back to hundreds of years.
What was the contribution of Islam with regard to history, talking about the Romans, Persians, etc and then in the field of science and medicine?

There is no peaceful way islam can exist with the rest of the world. It is a religion (like many others) that not only promotes divisiveness. But promotes radical thinking that preys on the weak minded to become violent against anything they perceive is against their religion.

It's really quiet stupid.

The world would be an entirely better place if Muslims were not around. Or at least learned to tone down their ranting and silly little grievances against cartoons and the 'libleral free western world'.

This also goes for any other fundamental cult/religion that promotes this type of segregation in modern society.

Now who sounding like they have radical thinking? The HATERS coming out now!! Don't let your bias obscure the view of the truth. Or has the GRASPING AT STRAWS BEGUN?

Why did the whole of Arabia accept ISLAM?

Why did Islam spread where it did if what you are inferring is true (child molesting)? It certainly is not!

Why did Encyclopedia Brittanica name Muhammad to be the most successful man in history?

Why have many other great men (accepted in society) expressed great positive opinions about Muhammad (based on historical evidence)?

Before I respond to the Aishah issue, I would to get your views as to what is the earliest age that a female should get married and at what age to consummate it.

What I am looking for is the basis for such, be it biological, physiological, religious or other.

And what's wrong with WARLIKE? It seems to be the most popular choice for the free West (US / UN and their allies).

[MG Man]

source of that britannica thing?
regarding acceptance of islam, check your history.........islam was spread by invasion and war.......just look at africa..........
and answer me this..........if islam so perfect, why do so many islamic nations have so much suffering?

[Advent]

source of that britannica thing?
regarding acceptance of islam, check your history.........islam was spread by invasion and war.......just look at africa..........
and answer me this..........if islam so perfect, why do so many islamic nations have so much suffering?

This man speaks the truth, Islam is so freaking disgusting ughhhhhhhh
And full of hate to non islam and non believers

[stickman]

Now who sounding like they have radical thinking? The HATERS coming out now!! Don't let your bias obscure the view of the truth. Or has the GRASPING AT STRAWS BEGUN?

Why did the whole of Arabia accept ISLAM?

Why did Islam spread where it did if what you are inferring is true (child molesting)? It certainly is not!

Why did Encyclopedia Brittanica name Muhammad to be the most successful man in history?

Why have many other great men (accepted in society) expressed great positive opinions about Muhammad (based on historical evidence)?

Before I respond to the Aishah issue, I would to get your views as to what is the earliest age that a female should get married and at what age to consummate it.

What I am looking for is the basis for such, be it biological, physiological, religious or other.

And what's wrong with WARLIKE? It seems to be the most popular choice for the free West (US / UN and their allies).

It's not radical thinking, it's critical thinking.

Because people weren't skeptical at that time and belief in supernatural things were normal. If I called myself a prophet today and wrote a book, I wonder how many people would laugh at me.

It is true. Based on various hadith, it is confirmed that Muhammed molested Aisha. It is also confirmed that Aisha disliked the prophet. And based on reasoning, it was evident that Aisha was a child (6-9 years old was her confirmed age) who played with dolls. Lastly, why didn't Aisha bear any children?

Because he brainwashed over one billion people.

What great men?

This is my opinion, but when the woman is of age and can decide for herself.

Don't get me started on Muhammad and war...

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

fellas please - we are not here to bash anyone's religion

This topic is to learn about other religions and ask questions and get answers - it is an open discussion.

if the opinionated bashing continues we will delete the topic

[MG Man]

fellas please - we are not here to bash anyone's religion

This topic is to learn about other religions and ask questions and get answers - it is an open discussion.

if the opinionated bashing continues we will delete the topic

duane, hear what, just delete it............because on the one hand hasshoals such as me are bashing from a side, BUT...........how is it different form those proclaiming (without sensible explanation), that their religion is the one true religion, and that all others are wrong? You are then bashing my beliefs in a different way, not so?
If you deem our bashing as unaccepted, then in the same light, you need to share the same tolerance, or lack thereof, to to the self righteous fundamentalists for their proclamations.......this discussion took a turn when AdamB appeared on the scene, and made even bluefete and megadoc look benign in comparison..........if anything, that is the source and catalyst for this latest spate of nonsense............
And while we on bashment and such, look at how we bashing haterists have reacted to AdamB and crew vs how we reacted to megadoc and crew.........it is a function of how each party presented their arguments
And that, dear admineratoristocrat, really reflects the way the world sees and reacts to both groups.........think about it

[Dizzy28]

If this thread goes there will be a significant decline in my tuner lulzment.

[Humes]

fellas please - we are not here to bash anyone's religion

This topic is to learn about other religions and ask questions and get answers - it is an open discussion.

if the opinionated bashing continues we will delete the topic

But the vast majority of this thread has been opinionated bashing. You've allowed the religious people to post all sort of disingenuous and dishonest trollery for the entirety of this thread. They've made insulting and hateful statements against non-believers and members of other faiths too many times to count. They've been bashing each other's religions from word go.

You can warn the two or three non-regulars who seem to have appeared out of nowhere to flame Islam, but in general, how is the discussion any different now than it has been in the past?

[AdamB]

fellas please - we are not here to bash anyone's religion

This topic is to learn about other religions and ask questions and get answers - it is an open discussion.

if the opinionated bashing continues we will delete the topic

Doh study it Duane.

The bashing only revealing the ignorance of the bashers.

We could take the insults because it will help in taking good deeds from the bashers and giving them to us or taking bad deeds from us and giving to the bashers (per chance the bashers don't have good deeds).

This falls in the category of backbiting and slander. Backbiting is saying something about someone that they would not like you to say about them (even it be true). Slander is saying something false about someone (like GOD or Muhammad or Jesus).

You see, even these negative occurrences are opportunities to educate ppl about religion / GOD.

[Humes]

Before I respond to the Aishah issue, I would to get your views as to what is the earliest age that a female should get married and at what age to consummate it.

What I am looking for is the basis for such, be it biological, physiological, religious or other.

Just tell us how you feel about the topic. If you think it's acceptable and justified, tell us how and why.

Straight talk about your religion. You don't need anyone's views to do that.

Is sexual intercourse with a nine-year-old girl an action or attitude of the prophet that you would emulate? Do you think it's okay that he fondled her before she was even nine?

Do you think it's something that should be practiced and allowed in modern society?

[megadoc1]

fellas please - we are not here to bash anyone's religion

This topic is to learn about other religions and ask questions and get answers - it is an open discussion.

if the opinionated bashing continues we will delete the topic

I agree that the last few post kinda get rough! (noticed I did not take part in it) and I now came unto this page to asked that they take it down a bit...but why the threat of delete? is three years now we taking licks inside here! why not just move the posts that are overboard and warn the user? deleting the topic cannot be the right thing to do now, because that particular group is now on the receiving end of the same stuff that the Christians received for over three hundred pages in which that same group partook of, exploiting the opportunity to promote their faith..
I came here to ask that some respect is shown to them but see for yourself what they were doing when we were under this same bashing

[AdamB]

fellas please - we are not here to bash anyone's religion

This topic is to learn about other religions and ask questions and get answers - it is an open discussion.

if the opinionated bashing continues we will delete the topic

But the vast majority of this thread has been opinionated bashing. You've allowed the religious people to post all sort of disingenuous and dishonest trollery for the entirety of this thread. They've made insulting and hateful statements against non-believers and members of other faiths too many times to count. They've been bashing each other's religions from word go.

You can warn the two or three non-regulars who seem to have appeared out of nowhere to flame Islam, but in general, how is the discussion any different now than it has been in the past?

Just to clarify, Islam not "flamed" or "inflamed".

Still wondering what non-believers in religion / GOD doing on a religious discussion like dey own it.

Yuh threaten to delete and these fellas like they more annoyed than the believers in religion / GOD.

[Dizzy28]

fellas please - we are not here to bash anyone's religion

This topic is to learn about other religions and ask questions and get answers - it is an open discussion.

if the opinionated bashing continues we will delete the topic

But the vast majority of this thread has been opinionated bashing. You've allowed the religious people to post all sort of disingenuous and dishonest trollery for the entirety of this thread. They've made insulting and hateful statements against non-believers and members of other faiths too many times to count. They've been bashing each other's religions from word go.

You can warn the two or three non-regulars who seem to have appeared out of nowhere to flame Islam, but in general, how is the discussion any different now than it has been in the past?

Just to clarify, Islam not "flamed" or "inflamed".

Still wondering what non-believers in religion / GOD doing on a religious discussion like dey own it.

Yuh threaten to delete and these fellas like they more annoyed than the believers in religion / GOD.

But you are not a believer in Religion..you are a believer in YOUR religion only. Many of your statements are not directly bashing but it brings in disrepute other peoples religions.

[stickman]

fellas please - we are not here to bash anyone's religion

This topic is to learn about other religions and ask questions and get answers - it is an open discussion.

if the opinionated bashing continues we will delete the topic

I agree that the last few post kinda get rough! (noticed I did not take part in it) and I now came unto this page to asked that they take it down a bit...but why the threat of delete? is three years now we taking licks inside here! why not just move the posts that are overboard and warn the user? deleting the topic cannot be the right thing to do now, because that particular group is now on the receiving end of the same stuff that the Christians received for over three hundred pages in which that same group partook of, exploiting the opportunity to promote their faith..
I came here to ask that some respect is shown to them but see for yourself what they were doing when we were under this same bashing

I think the "bashing" can be a bad thing in attracting users to the site. For example, some Muslims would never visit TriniTuner ever again, if they saw what we were saying in the last few pages of this thread.

That being said, I love how AdamB ignores our arguments. I'm done, since it's like talking to a wall.

[AdamB]

fellas please - we are not here to bash anyone's religion

This topic is to learn about other religions and ask questions and get answers - it is an open discussion.

if the opinionated bashing continues we will delete the topic

But the vast majority of this thread has been opinionated bashing. You've allowed the religious people to post all sort of disingenuous and dishonest trollery for the entirety of this thread. They've made insulting and hateful statements against non-believers and members of other faiths too many times to count. They've been bashing each other's religions from word go.

You can warn the two or three non-regulars who seem to have appeared out of nowhere to flame Islam, but in general, how is the discussion any different now than it has been in the past?

Just to clarify, Islam not "flamed" or "inflamed".

Still wondering what non-believers in religion / GOD doing on a religious discussion like dey own it.

Yuh threaten to delete and these fellas like they more annoyed than the believers in religion / GOD.

But you are not a believer in Religion..you are a believer in YOUR religion only. Many of your statements are not directly bashing but it brings in disrepute other peoples religions.

I believe in my religion, others believe in theirs, and others don't believe. I have posted the views of MY religion, ISLAM. Like it or not. Agree or dis-agree.

What is the source of your views? Disbelief, conformance with established religion or deviance from them?

The point is: Are your views really part of a RELIGIOUS discussion?