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megadoc1 wrote:What about suffering in the world?
God could instantly stop suffering on the earth. However it will mean forcing His will on humanity. God could rule the earth like Superman. He can use His omniscience and His omnipresence and instantly stop evil wherever it happens on the earth. Humanity would be subject to Him in every way and the earth would be a beautiful place. However, we will then stop being human. So God in His eternal wisdom has chosen to rule the earth through His love – it is only then that His nature would be manifest in us.
God could instantly stop suffering on the earth. However it will mean forcing His will on humanity.
He can use His omniscience and His omnipresence and instantly stop evil wherever it happens on the earth. Humanity would be subject to Him in every way and the earth would be a beautiful place. However, we will then stop being human.
So God in His eternal wisdom has chosen to rule the earth through His love – it is only then that His nature would be manifest in us.
megadoc1 wrote:^true: also according to the bible He is the engineer of the universe!
Strauss wrote:Megadoc1.
Wanna help me with something here?
Thanks man.
"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy"
— Exodus 20:8
Yea... Saturday. Time to rest !!
Oh wait. Opps, here comes one of the "Antichrist"
"And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time."
— Daniel 7:25
well it goes like thisMG Man wrote:megadoc1 wrote:^true: also according to the bible He is the engineer of the universe!
wait............jesus?
I tort he fadda was engineer of de universe?
MG Man wrote:megadoc1 wrote:^true: also according to the bible He is the engineer of the universe!
wait............jesus?
I tort he fadda was engineer of de universe?
MG Man wrote:megadoc1 wrote:^true: also according to the bible He is the engineer of the universe!
wait............jesus?
I tort he fadda was engineer of de universe?
megadoc1 wrote:^true: also according to the bible He is the engineer of the universe!
crossdrilled wrote:16 cycles wrote:btw-
kudos to AdamB for helping out....hope it went well and the effort was well received...
It is also verry telling if the people helped are of the same religion as the helpers.
megadoc1 wrote:^true: also according to the bible He is the engineer of the universe!
Bizzare wrote:megadoc1 wrote:What about suffering in the world?
God could instantly stop suffering on the earth. However it will mean forcing His will on humanity. God could rule the earth like Superman. He can use His omniscience and His omnipresence and instantly stop evil wherever it happens on the earth. Humanity would be subject to Him in every way and the earth would be a beautiful place. However, we will then stop being human. So God in His eternal wisdom has chosen to rule the earth through His love – it is only then that His nature would be manifest in us.
There's so much more I want to respond to in your post, but since my time is limited I'll respond to this part cuz these are the questions I pointed out in my post earlier.
I'm posting as one who studies the bible and not as a Christian (whether I am or not) so no bias here.
Ok, the bible explains many characteristics of God that one must understand in order to fully understand his ways and why he does what he does. One of these main characteristics is GOD DOES NOT CHANGE. He does not change his mind. God is an eternal being and dwells in eternity. What he thinks, IS ETERNAL meaning whatever God thinks, must come to being. There is no mind changing in eternity. There is no turning back on his word neither his thoughts. There are numerous passages (over 10) to support that in the bible but here are a 2:
1 Samuel 15:29 (NIV)
He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a human being, that he should change his mind.
Numbers 23:19 (NIV)
God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?
Now, when God decided to make man a free will being, the moment he had that thought, he saw what was to come in the future because of this (Adam and Eve sinning). But, having a characteristic of NOT BEING ABLE TO CHANGE, God could not go back on his thought. He had to create man a free will being. (So there is something that God CANNOT do. He cannot do all things. He cannot lie, he cannot change). He knows who on Tuner will go to hell and who will go to heaven even before he created them.
That answers the question as to why God created man even though he knew man would sin.God could instantly stop suffering on the earth. However it will mean forcing His will on humanity.
You said God "could". Well actually, he cannot....... even if he wants to, which he does according to the bible. God gave man dominion over the earth and through sin, did Satan become the ruler of this world. Satan is the God of this world. He has power on earth. Because of sin the earth was cursed. There will always be suffering here on earth. Would a loving God allow suffering and his children to enter hell because he wishes to see them express free will? NO!! It is because he wished to make man free will beings and he cannot go back on his word (thoughts). Man will always be free will beings and God cannot change that. He cursed the earth when Adam and Eve sinned and he cannot go back on his word, therefore, God cannot stop suffering here on earth. However without going back on his word, he made an alternative. It is only through Jesus can one be free from the bounds of suffering... not from suffering, but the bounds of suffering - meaning we have the power to overcome it, but we will face suffering as long as we live because the earth is cursed.He can use His omniscience and His omnipresence and instantly stop evil wherever it happens on the earth. Humanity would be subject to Him in every way and the earth would be a beautiful place. However, we will then stop being human.
So like I explained above, the things which you mention that God can do, he actually cannot (according to his word) whether he wishes to or not, because God does not change in his words, nor his thoughts. Because of this, he could have only provided an alternative plan for redemption without going back on his initial idea for creation.So God in His eternal wisdom has chosen to rule the earth through His love – it is only then that His nature would be manifest in us.
So no, it's not that God could save the whole of humanity but he chooses not to for the glory of his name sake. C'mon, that is not a loving God. That's more like a narcissist being. It is because he cannot go back on his word. Its a characteristic that would make an unbeliever believe if he/she understands that. If I didn't kno the bible, I myself would have questioned this kind of "love" that is being preached. It'll answer numerous questions the world has. If God was able, he would have taken away our gift of free will rather than sending his children to hell for eternity. But man will always have a free will - God cannot go back on his word. He provided an alternative route to heaven. Many scripture verses to explain this in depth but limited time.
Understand his characteristics. He isn't one who can do whatever he pleases (including stopping evil) but chooses not to for his glory sake, or whatever other reason they give you out there. He cannot. But he is loving. He sent his only begotten son to suffer and take our place on the cross and die for our sins.... yadda yadda yadda. That's the manifestation of his love there. Through his alternative. If he was able to go back on his word, he would have manifested his love in taking away man's free will to save them from eternal damnation. But like I said he cannot
why would you say that of someone's religion?AdamB wrote:crossdrilled wrote:16 cycles wrote:btw-
kudos to AdamB for helping out....hope it went well and the effort was well received...
It is also verry telling if the people helped are of the same religion as the helpers.
They belonged to the religion called POOR.
AdamB wrote:Bizzare,
You have made the mistake of trying to interpret (the scripture) for yourself. You neither have the original manuscripts nor a command of the language. You probably don't even know the language (maybe Latin) from which your "English" bible has been translated.
This is the formula for misguidance. So don't make statements about GOD that you are not qualified to make.
bluefete wrote:16 cycles wrote:woaw.........even the concept of helping the less fortunate brings up the question of which religion is better / worse at it....?
i highly doubt the boss man/lady (if there is one) would be pleased about that....
btw-
kudos to AdamB for helping out....hope it went well and the effort was well received...
When you give to the poor, do not let your right hand know what your left hand is doing.
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:why would you say that of someone's religion?AdamB wrote:crossdrilled wrote:16 cycles wrote:btw-
kudos to AdamB for helping out....hope it went well and the effort was well received...
It is also verry telling if the people helped are of the same religion as the helpers.
They belonged to the religion called POOR.
Come on, you can read between the lines. Neither that was done, nor was it intended. If charity was given to the poor, why nit pick of what religion they belonged? Does it matter?Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:^ charity is one of the greatest things man can do for each other - I agree with that.
I was asking why would you belittle someone by referring to their religion as "POOR".
read between the lines?AdamB wrote:Come on, you can read between the lines.
you said they are from a religion called POOR. If someone were to tell you that your religion is POOR or WEAK or FEEBLE or in NEED, you would definitely take offence. You can't deny that there have been fatwas proclaimed for less.AdamB wrote:Neither that was done, nor was it intended.
Can zakaat be given to a non-believer or an infidel?AdamB wrote:If charity was given to the poor, why nit pick of what religion they belonged? Does it matter?
but there are millions of children starving and hundreds dying from starvation all over the world.AdamB wrote:We don't feel that if we did not give sustenance to persons that they would starve. GOD provides for HIS Creation.
so you do it mostly for your own personal gain?AdamB wrote:The difference is that by giving, we earn the reward of charity.
megadoc1 wrote:Duane, I think if you temporarily rename the Submit button for this ched ,we wont have to deal with AdamB hitting it up so much...lol
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:read between the lines?AdamB wrote:Come on, you can read between the lines.you said they are from a religion called POOR. If someone were to tell you that your religion is POOR or WEAK or FEEBLE or in NEED, you would definitely take offence. You can't deny that there have been fatwas proclaimed for less. The Poor and Needy don't care from which religion you belong. The sad thing is that some use this unfortunate state to take advantage and "convert the poor and needy.AdamB wrote:Neither that was done, nor was it intended.
All I am saying is that you should not say that anyone's religion is called POOR, especially if they depend on you for charity. I apologize if I offended you but I don't think you grasped the gist of what I was trying to say.Can zakaat be given to a non-believer or an infidel? No, zakaat is a specific compulsory charity which has 7 categories. However, there is Sadaqah which means general charity which can be distributed to anyone including non-believers and infidels. Why did you choose to use these terms when you could have simply said non-muslims or persons belonging to other faiths?AdamB wrote:If charity was given to the poor, why nit pick of what religion they belonged? Does it matter?but there are millions of children starving and hundreds dying from starvation all over the world. That's a good point but I was referring to the ones to whom were given charity. If I did not give to them, then someone else would have or they would have sought to work for it or the like. If it's the Will of GOD for them to get, they will.AdamB wrote:We don't feel that if we did not give sustenance to persons that they would starve. GOD provides for HIS Creation.
As for the millions starving, it's a sad thing but it is their test and our shortcoming (the world community - their government, G8, UN, etc) to see that and not help. Sometimes, even when we give worldwide, the money does not reach them. If they are patient, they will earn their reward.so you do it mostly for your own personal gain? Do you really feel that it makes them happy? Maybe for a few minutes, some of them. Those who have not been deprived will not understand the plight of the needy.AdamB wrote:The difference is that by giving, we earn the reward of charity.
There is a saying that "you don't get paid twice", so if one gives to be seen of men (or looking to get something back from the recipient) then he will get his reward. However, I will try to give selflessly and hope for a reward with my Lord!!
sMASH wrote:megadoc1 wrote:Duane, I think if you temporarily rename the Submit button for this ched ,we wont have to deal with AdamB hitting it up so much...lol
pot and kettle. you are free to re-read the thread.
oh boy! didn't d spike's post suggests that I was interpreting the bible wrong too?Humes wrote:So between the Christian who adamantly believes there's only one way to interpret the Bible,
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