The Religion Discussion

[Humes]

Most people take comfort in the fact that scientific work is peer reviewed by qualified persons but if you don't have the first hand evidence and understanding of it then aren't you following in blind faith?

No. blind faith would be taking someone's word without applying reason, or without any sort of verification whatsoever.

Accepting a scientific conclusion that's been reasoned out and is based on verifiable evidence (which has been verified by others you trust) is in no way the same as blind faith. Personal, subjective, unverifiable experience is something totally different to reasoning, evidence-gathering and testing. You're equating two very different concepts.

According to your logic, if someone followed you around identifying everything you try to eat or drink as poisonous, but you ignored them and ate and drank anyway, then you'd be living by blind faith.

[Humes]

Which biology book did you use? All i am asking is what did YOU read or hear that made you accept the idea that humans evolved from monkeys?

Humans didn't evolve from monkeys.

Humans are, and always have been, apes. Get vex and beat up all yuh want...you belong to the same branch of mammals as gorillas.

The theory of evolution states that humans and other primates share a common ancestor, not that man came from a monkey, or that your grandfather was a monkey, or that God had a gay marriage with a monkey and birthed humanity....or whatever rubbish yuh want to convert it into to make it an easy target of religious derision.

[AdamB]

[quote="HumesThe theory of evolution states that humans and other primates share a common ancestor[/quote]
Is it not possible that GOD (who has the power and ability to do all things) created humans and other primates with such similarity to make it appear (via dna or whatever scientific / biological properties) that they shared a common ancestor?

Why is it not possible that this "common ancestor" is a totally different species who are now extinct just like dinosaurs?

[AdamB]

I rather live believing that there is a God and die finding out there isn't, Than to live not believing in God and die finding out that there is a God. (Think about that for a while)

This would mean that your belief in God isn't 100%, but more of an insurance and that would make your belief in God vain. (I believe in God btw)

Even though it sounds like insurance, it may actually be the action of a forward thinking mind. You see if you look forward to the end result and work towards achieving it, that's good common sense. And what is the END RESULT? Paradise or Hellfire...Basically we live our lives CHOOSING one of these. There's no in-betweens or non-existence for some. I would think this is a serious matter, so choose wisely seeking guidance of GOD THE MOST MERCIFUL.

Faith / belief / GOD-consciousness increases with acquisition of knowledge and with performance of deeds of righteousness leading to belief with absolute certainty (NOT BLIND FAITH).

[AdamB]

I find it pointless that an average of 70 years on earth should determine my fate for all eternity.

Besides, if all of the loose women are in hell... all hot sweaty and naked.... why do I want to be in heaven with a bunch of prudes?

Again, because we may not see the wisdom or agree with the execution of justice does not mean that it does not exist or is appropriate.

There is a view in a particular sect of a particular religion that Hell doesn't exist, that the punishment of hellfire for all eternity does not fit the crime of disobedience for a few (70) years on the earth. They say the Good will be rewarded with life back on earth (maybe some in Heaven) and that the evil doers will cease to exist.

However, if some (if not most) of man were to live for 50,000 years, they would do the same as if they had lived for only 70 yrs.

well if a person lived for only 15 yrs, surely they would have more time to be pious if they lived instead for 50 yrs.

the mentality of a 15yr old is far different from that of a 50yr old

on another note, is there free will in heaven?

Free will in Paradise? I believe so but I would like to research some more to confirm.
This life and world is the place for testing and it's consequences is in the next life
Since we believe that we were created for no other reason but to worship GOD alone, then why would we not continue to do it in Paradise?
Possibly the situation that lead to emotions that lead to undesirable actions may not exist in Paradise. It is a place of bliss, not rebellion.
I will try to post some description of Paradise from Islam. Paradise is preferred over Heaven (in terminology) because the latter also refers to the levels of the skies above which Paradise exists.

[Humes]

Why is it not possible that this "common ancestor" is a totally different species who are now extinct just like dinosaurs?

Not only is it possible, it's basically the reality. Go back in time far enough, and you'll find a common ancestor for all animal species swimming around in some ocean. We discussed that just a few pages ago.

However, the first species to be distinctly a primate, and which led to modern primates, is the common ancestor to which the term refers. And it would be long gone, obviously, having evolved into the different species in the primate family today.

Is it not possible that GOD (who has the power and ability to do all things) created humans and other primates with such similarity to make it appear (via dna or whatever scientific / biological properties) that they shared a common ancestor?

Yes, it's possible that God likes to play pointless games that only a silly human mind could care about. I think it's more possible that you're grasping desperately for straws and embarrassing both yourself and other believers with this absolutely stupid piece of conjecture.

[maj. tom]

And this is why islam is the greatest religion on Earth and spoken directly from god's mouth to its followers:

Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:00pm
Saudi man executed for 'witchcraft and sorcery'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18503550

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/19/us-saudi-execution-witchcraft-idUSBRE85I14A20120619

[Daran]

I really fail to understand why evolution is so difficult for some people to believe? It seems there's this mass hysteria where it is attacked without even being given a chance.

Back when I was a follower, I had no qualms about believing in evolution. It made the most sense, the evidence is there and keeps on mounting.

To me believing in religion takes away people's natural curiosity about the world we live in. If we just accepted "God made it so" then we would not have all these advances in science that enrich our lives today.

[tableau]

u can't kno if god exist and who he is unless u SINCERELY seek to kno him and hav a relationship with
him. Its almost the same way u would get to kno ur wife or husband or anyone before u met them.
God knows ur heart and what u really want, so its up to us to seek him or u'll never know.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Since we believe that we were created for no other reason but to worship GOD alone, then why would we not continue to do it in Paradise?

well we don't do it here, so why not continue it in paradise? I'm just asking.

Also if a man made a device with no other purpose but to be a vacuum cleaner, and almost half to two thirds of all the devices he makes do not vacuum at all - would you consider the man to be a competent vacuum cleaner maker?

I'm not suggesting that God is incompetent, I am questioning the statement that claims "we were created for no other reason but to worship GOD alone".

[Chimera]

omg Duane suggested that God is incompetent and is questioning his statements

!!! !!!

[Humes]

I really fail to understand why evolution is so difficult for some people to believe? It seems there's this mass hysteria where it is attacked without even being given a chance.

"I didn't come from no monkey."

"My grandfather wasn't a monkey."

Those are common knee-jerk reactions to the topic. I suspect most of it is fear and revulsion at the idea of being that closely related to apes.

[AdamB]

Since we believe that we were created for no other reason but to worship GOD alone, then why would we not continue to do it in Paradise?

well we don't do it here, so why not continue it in paradise? I'm just asking. If you CHOOSE to don't do it here, then simply you wouldn't be in Paradise. I'm not judging anyone but that's the general rule.

Also if a man made a device with no other purpose but to be a vacuum cleaner, and almost half to two thirds of all the devices he makes do not vacuum at all - would you consider the man to be a competent vacuum cleaner maker? GOD is ALL PERFECT so whatever HE created is exactly as HE intended with wisdom.

Why do some worship GOD and others don't? the answer delves into the topic of the Will of GOD. The first is the Universal Will in which we have no choice like earthquakes, hurricanes, death, whatever happens that we didn't deliberately intend / over which we have no control.

Secondly, there is the Legislative Will, the things over which we have choice (we can do it or not do it) and control. These are the laws set by GOD by which man has to live. Worshipping GOD is obviously one of the major laws.

I'm not suggesting that God is incompetent, I am questioning the statement that claims "we were created for no other reason but to worship GOD alone". The issue is not the competence of GOD, rather the wisdom behind allowing the choice.

This doesn't mean that we will constantly be praying to GOD. No, worship is everything pleasing to GOD, in the heart, on the tongue and by the limbs. Having marital relations with your spouse is worship / pleasing to GOD in that you did it within the confines of marriage and not with someone outside. The latter is a major sin, so the former, it's opposite will be rewarded (ppl call it blessings / good deeds).

[megadoc1]

too much emphasis on which religion is 'right'........

many cases on tuner where people need help in one form or the other....why not mobilize and support those in need (an inter-religious effort) ???

I asked that earlier and was told that "not by works do we achieve salvation"

I always found this to be one of the most pathetic, abominable Christian mindset. It exists solely to allow the useless pious to think they're better to non-believers and members of other faiths who actually contribute to the betterment of people's lives.

A statement like that proves you don't have a clue what the Christians believe, why not do some homework? why not try to equipping yourself so that you would be able to communicate back to the Christians what they believe before you can offer your critic ? look! read and learn sumn nah...

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

in a nutshell Christians do not do good works to please God or to go to heaven,their salvation is a gift from God... thru putting faith in Jesus! and with it comes the ability to do good things or Good works,in the christian faith when a man becomes born again he receives a new nature that is righteous, Holy and perfect..all what is of God is put into him and now he just have to walk it out
that's what sets Christianity apart from other religions
we don't do good works to achieve salvation!!!!! we do good works because we love..we don't love God or love people because we want to go to heaven !!we love Him because he first loved us,now that we know what love is only then we can love another!!
please find the time to go search out theses stufff meng!!

[Humes]

Everything yuh just beat up yuhself to write there, megadoc, yuh need to go and tell yuh Christian brethren. Because plenty of them use that verse to excuse themselves from charitable works and hold themselves as superior to others.

You doh need to explain any Biblical passage about charity and good works to me. The teachings and actions of Christ make it very clear that good works need to be a central part of any Christian's life.

I was describing the mindset of those who interpret the passage conveniently, not the passage itself. Next time calm down and read properly.

And to be frank, even your interpretation leaves a lot to be desired.

[megadoc1]

Everything yuh just beat up yuhself to write there, megadoc, yuh need to go and tell yuh Christian brethren. Because plenty of them use that verse to excuse themselves from charitable works and hold themselves as superior to others.

You doh need to explain any Biblical passage about charity and good works to me. The teachings and actions of Christ make it very clear that good works need to be a central part of any Christian's life.

I was describing the mindset of those who interpret the passage conveniently, not the passage itself. Next time calm down and read properly.

And to be frank, even your interpretation leaves a lot to be desired.

thanks for clarifying that's its a minority you were referring to at-least you know that's not the christian mindset they supposed to be having, it only brings the question of what they truly believe? however you must remember that you were hoodwinked into making a general statement based on what Duane wrote:although it is a true statement he made , he put it across in such a way to prompt a response just like yours...
..and about my interpretation, why worry about that? those stuff are clearly written! you can go look it up and with your level of intelligence write posts that educates the masses on what the christian folks truly believe and live....why not educate rather than run off on statements made in ignorance/deception?

[16 cycles]

woaw.........even the concept of helping the less fortunate brings up the question of which religion is better / worse at it....?

i highly doubt the boss man/lady (if there is one) would be pleased about that....

btw-
kudos to AdamB for helping out....hope it went well and the effort was well received...

[Strauss]

[RBphoto]

btw-
kudos to AdamB for helping out....hope it went well and the effort was well received...

It is also verry telling if the people helped are of the same religion as the helpers.

[Bizzare]

When I read through this thread, I see Christians answering questions contrary to what the bible teaches. Not that I know the bible to a "t", but I only answer to what I know (whether I believe or not). If I don't know, I won't make an answer up to defend the belief. I'm searching to answer my questions everyday just like many others. And I study the bible not from a Christian point of view, but more open minded (towards anything). I don't read it to confirm what I already believe to be true, but I read it looking for truth.

A lot of Christians make up a God of their own (idolatry according to the book they defend) maybe because they find comfort in what they believe to be the truth or maybe because what they think to be God ways is what they hope is the truth - this can lead to one turning away from their belief because they'll soon find what they believe in doesn't make sense when non-believers test their faith.

When people ask common questions like "why would God allow his people & little children to die from natural disasters" or "why did God create us when he knew we were going to sin", "why can't he just send us to heaven if he really loves us" you hear generic responses like "free will" blah blah blah etc etc etc. If I didn't (or don't) believe the bible, I'll always know that's not what it teaches as to why those things happen.

The bible answers those questions whether directly or indirectly. God himself mentions in the bible that there are things he cannot do. He cannot do "ALL" things. He is limited as to what he can intervene in here on earth. HIS WORD ITSELF SAID SO. I myself am baffled by this because many thngs the bible says God cannot do, it goes on to say in other scriptures that he can do "ALL THINGS" or make statements like "ANYTHING THAT YE ASK FOR" etc which is contradictory to me.

You ask a guy why doesn't God heal him, and he answers "Maybe it is not God's will that I be healed, maybe he has a better plan for me." or "God knows what he is doing. I am sick for a reason and he knows why". Pfffttt.... according to the bible, sickness is of the devil and he took your infirmities when he shed his blood on the cross and sickness is of the devil and no account in the bible did Jesus tell a sick man/woman "it ain't your time to be healed buddy, God has a bigger plan for you". Healing should be yours as soon as you ask, again according to the bible. So there again Christians go making up their own God.

[bluefete]

woaw.........even the concept of helping the less fortunate brings up the question of which religion is better / worse at it....?

i highly doubt the boss man/lady (if there is one) would be pleased about that....

btw-
kudos to AdamB for helping out....hope it went well and the effort was well received...

When you give to the poor, do not let your right hand know what your left hand is doing.

[Humes]

however you must remember that you were hoodwinked into making a general statement based on what Duane wrote:although it is a true statement he made , he put it across in such a way to prompt a response just like yours...

You're very presumptuous and out of place.

What Duane said is nothing new to me. His intention wasn't to hoodwink and I wasn't fooled. Stop trying to twist reality. This entire discussion has maintained a certain tone because of that passive-aggressive, deceptive disrespect that you exude in your arguments.

The convenient interpretation is what fuels the attitude of many Christians. And at the end of the day, most of the Bible is open to interpretation. You aren't a "truer" Christian than anyone else.

It's how people interpret and represent Christianity that concerns me, because the actions they take based on those interpretations is what affects others.

[sMASH]

were there many others?

[megadoc1]

You're very presumptuous and out of place.

really????

What Duane said is nothing new to me. His intention wasn't to hoodwink and I wasn't fooled. Stop trying to twist reality.

what? your post was in response to what he wrote check again! what other response could have been given according to what Duane posted? only one that is of defense but you just had to Go with the affirmative because its not your desire! to defend,far less educate anyone on proper christian doctrine

This entire discussion has maintained a certain tone because of that passive-aggressive, deceptive disrespect that you exude in your arguments.

whatever!..oh sorry no offense!

The convenient interpretation is what fuels the attitude of many Christians. And at the end of the day, most of the Bible is open to interpretation.

this is total bs ..the bible is not open to interpretation there is only one way to interpret the bible ...do your home work!!
look up hermeneutics ,Exegesis and the one used for people who erroneously interpret the bible Eisegesis when you are done talk to me ok.
let me help you a bit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_hermeneutics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exegesis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisegesis

You aren't a "truer" Christian than anyone else.

honestly,I don't have a clue what you mean by that! Is that a term that can be used in my faith? what do you mean by this ?

It's how people interpret and represent Christianity that concerns me, because the actions they take based on those interpretations is what affects others.

well I trust that after you look up what I suggested, you would be equipped to understand whats the christian belief and may be in a position to correct the ones you know and educate them on the errors that they make, all for betterment of mankind..instead of winning about it you would know that the concerns you have are ones regarding errors ..would you then throw the baby out with the bath water?

[sweetiepaper]

Humans didn't evolve from monkeys.

So the Ascent of Man picture which depicts man progressing from ape has nothing to do with evolution?

Humans are, and always have been, apes. Get vex and beat up all yuh want...you belong to the same branch of mammals as gorillas.

What evidence do you have of this my dear?
And why would I get vex and beat up over a statement like that? You are free to believe whatever you wish.

The theory of evolution states that humans and other primates share a common ancestor

Alright, how did they arrive that?

[megadoc1]

When I read through this thread, I see Christians answering questions contrary to what the bible teaches.

ok stop there why not post those errors and correct them? or for as an example instead of just making general statements?

Not that I know the bible to a "t", but I only answer to what I know (whether I believe or not). If I don't know, I won't make an answer up to defend the belief.

just want to know something, are you suggesting that someone here is making up answers? if yes can you make an example available? remember this is a discussion so if you see errors lets deal with them..
you did admit that you don't know the bible to a t so maybe just maybe you don't know for sure if someone is making up stuff but how would we know for sure if you just make general statements without an example?

I'm searching to answer my questions everyday just like many others. And I study the bible not from a Christian point of view, but more open minded (towards anything). I don't read it to confirm what I already believe to be true, but I read it looking for truth.

keep on reading my friend I really hope you find what you are looking for ..but if it means anything to you let me say something truth is a person ,his name is Jesus! If you are looking for truth you would find it in Him

A lot of Christians make up a God of their own (idolatry according to the book they defend) maybe because they find comfort in what they believe to be the truth or maybe because what they think to be God ways is what they hope is the truth - this can lead to one turning away from their belief because they'll soon find what they believe in doesn't make sense when non-believers test their faith.

probably true: but how does this add to anything seeing its a generalized statement? as we speak, we don't have an example in which to base this statement on, please give an example of what can lead to one turning from his belief!

When people ask common questions like "why would God allow his people & little children to die from natural disasters" or "why did God create us when he knew we were going to sin", "why can't he just send us to heaven if he really loves us" you hear generic responses like "free will" blah blah blah etc etc etc.

ammm. the part about free will is the only answer to those examples eh..jus sayin here is response i gave recently

The Existence of Evil
evil is a result of God’s love. There are different beings, creatures and species on the earth: worms, bacteria, dogs and humans etc. The privilege of being a human is having the capacity to exhibit true love which must be a free choice to be truly called love. So God created us like him – it is the only way love can be exhibited - for God is love. Being like God means we have freewill and we can choose God or No God. This choice allows for the existence of evil. Could not the Almighty God find another way to do this? The answer is yes but then we will all be robots. God made us like Him because that is the only way love can be shown. There is only one way to be like God.


What about suffering in the world?
God could instantly stop suffering on the earth. However it will mean forcing His will on humanity. God could rule the earth like Superman. He can use His omniscience and His omnipresence and instantly stop evil wherever it happens on the earth. Humanity would be subject to Him in every way and the earth would be a beautiful place. However, we will then stop being human. So God in His eternal wisdom has chosen to rule the earth through His love – it is only then that His nature would be manifest in us.

What does Jesus teach?
Jesus is a real historical figure whose impact on the world was significant ...

How do his teachings play out as we look for meaning in life? Jesus message is simple – Love God and love one another as He loves us.
Jesus teaches that no one is good, no not one. He says we have all sinned and fallen short of God’s standard for perfection. He says we are all lost, hence the name Jesus means “Saviour”. Jesus came for a people who could not save themselves.

What are the claims of Jesus?

1. We have all sinned

We were born with a sin nature which makes sinning natural to us. As a result, teachings etc. can do little to help us. It is like a dog – it is his nature to bark and chase cars. If we are trying to get a dog to stop doing that – we will need to bring out the old chain and tie the dog up or lock it in a kennel. I guess it will bark even more. Religion is generally an attempt to tie up a dog. “Thou shall not commit adultery, thou shall not steal” are essentially chains to keep us from sinning. Religion tends to fail because humanity’s problem is in our nature and sinful heart. All “thou shall not’s” do is prove that we are sinners.

2. Jesus answer – A New Nature

Jesus’ answer is a new nature – being born again in the spirit. Jesus was not born of the seed of a man therefore He didn’t carry the sin nature but He was conceived of the Holy Spirit. His promise is if someone receives Him He will give them a New Nature. Just like how we sin naturally with the “old nature”; with the “new nature” we naturally do good. So Jesus calls us righteous, holy and perfected forever – it is His gift to us. We do not lose it by sinning and because we have this new nature we don’t want to sin. It is an incorruptible nature.

This is why a Christian believes he is already made perfect by Jesus Christ. We are tri-une beings like God – we are spirits that possess a soul and live in a body. When someone receives Jesus, they receive a new spiritual nature that is perfect, holy and righteous forever.

It is the reason that when Jesus was on the earth, He said a new commandment I give you but it is really the same commandments before addressed to a new nature. His commandment is “thou shall love”. Jesus has untied all the “nots” in “thou shall not.”

can you agree with that? if not lets discuss why

If I didn't (or don't) believe the bible, I'll always know that's not what it teaches as to why those things happen.

can you tell us what it teaches concerning this stuff? c'mon man
you saying certain answers given are not the correct answers without even giving us the correct answers?

The bible answers those questions whether directly or indirectly. God himself mentions in the bible that there are things he cannot do. He cannot do "ALL" things. He is limited as to what he can intervene in here on earth. HIS WORD ITSELF SAID SO. I myself am baffled by this because many thngs the bible says God cannot do, it goes on to say in other scriptures that he can do "ALL THINGS" or make statements like "ANYTHING THAT YE ASK FOR" etc which is contradictory to me.

what? you did not read the bible! ,here what you just did, you just gave us an example about the errors people make ..the very thing you were making generalized statements about!! lol ...how ironic!

You ask a guy why doesn't God heal him, and he answers "Maybe it is not God's will that I be healed, maybe he has a better plan for me." or "God knows what he is doing. I am sick for a reason and he knows why". Pfffttt.... according to the bible, sickness is of the devil and he took your infirmities when he shed his blood on the cross and sickness is of the devil and no account in the bible did Jesus tell a sick man/woman "it ain't your time to be healed buddy, God has a bigger plan for you". Healing should be yours as soon as you ask, again according to the bible. So there again Christians go making up their own God.

yuh know, it is true people hold such mindsets when it comes to healing but that never translates to making up your own God!...example:Mat 9:28 And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They say unto him, Yea, Lord.
Mat 9:29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it done unto you.
Mat 9:30 And their eyes were opened. And Jesus strictly charged them, saying, See that no man know it.


what if they believed they would be healed the following day ?
what I am trying to say is this if a man believe that its not his time to be healed he won't be healed until he believe it is his time to be healed why?because it is according to his faith! but to say he created his own god is erroneous on your behalf or maybe you need to define the term "making up your own god"

[Humes]

this is total bs ..the bible is not open to interpretation there is only one way to interpret the bible ...do your home work!!

Amazing.

You know how many people have died, how many wars were fought, and how many nations were torn asunder because of this exact same attitude?

Absolutely amazing.

There is no one way to interpret the Bible. It's all subjective, and there's no final word from any source that proves one interpretation is more valid than the other. None.

[Humes]

Humans didn't evolve from monkeys.

So the Ascent of Man picture which depicts man progressing from ape has nothing to do with evolution?

Humans are, and always have been, apes. Get vex and beat up all yuh want...you belong to the same branch of mammals as gorillas.

What evidence do you have of this my dear?
And why would I get vex and beat up over a statement like that? You are free to believe whatever you wish.

The theory of evolution states that humans and other primates share a common ancestor

Alright, how did they arrive that?

The ascent of man is a simplistic illustration of the evolution process. It's about as representative of the complexities of evolution as that picture showing a fish crawling onto land and immediately growing four legs. Man's earliest ancestor was not a modern-day monkey or ape...a kinda obvious point since those animals still exist today. The common ancestor would definitely have been an ape-like animal, though.

Human beings are classified as Great Apes in the animal taxonomy. We share approximately 99% of their DNA, as well as much of their physical appearance and behavioral traits. That's how animal classification works. Humans are apes, along with gorillas, chimps etc.

That genetic similarity along with fossil records is the basis for the ancestral link between humans and wild apes. Researchers have discovered extinct hominid species that occupy a biological middle-ground between humans and wild apes, as well as evidence of speciation towards modern humans and modern wild apes respectively.

[d spike]

...and was told that "not by works do we achieve salvation"

I always found this to be one of the most pathetic, abominable Christian mindset. It exists solely to allow the useless pious to think they're better to non-believers and members of other faiths who actually contribute to the betterment of people's lives.

A statement like that proves you don't have a clue what the Christians believe, why not do some homework? why not try to equipping yourself so that you would be able to communicate back to the Christians what they believe before you can offer your critic ? look! read and learn sumn nah...

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

in a nutshell Christians do not do good works to please God or to go to heaven,their salvation is a gift from God... thru putting faith in Jesus! and with it comes the ability to do good things or Good works,in the christian faith when a man becomes born again he receives a new nature that is righteous, Holy and perfect..all what is of God is put into him and now he just have to walk it out
that's what sets Christianity apart from other religions
we don't do good works to achieve salvation!!!!! we do good works because we love..we don't love God or love people because we want to go to heaven !!we love Him because he first loved us,now that we know what love is only then we can love another!!
please find the time to go search out theses stufff meng!!

Humes, this is the "faith alone" argument that Luther had based much of his arguments on. You are quite right in saying that this very concept excuses its adherents from performing works of charity. Remarkably enough, even though many Reformation-originated Christian churches - including the Lutheran Church - have since admitted that Luther was wrong to put in the word "alone" in that famous scriptural quote of his (Luther freely admitted that he injected the word in his translation!) many "Christians" still cling to it, as you say.
Interestingly enough, megadoc starts his response to you by suggesting that this is NOT a Christian belief - a point that I actually agree with ...
...but then he goes on to stir up a set of errant hubris that shows he is guilty of the same error as old Luther. All that swirling jabber does a poor job of hiding the fact that he is also an adherent of Luther's "faith alone".
Small wonder that he didn't quote St. James' letter for you, as it clearly states "Faith without works is DEAD" - the same reason Luther tried to get it tossed out of the bible as it didn't agree with him.

It is unfortunate that his little band of layhandaholics is what his concept of Christianity is based on, as it ensures that the little bubble he floats around in stays rather small and keeps his errant beliefs free from contact with reality... he really should take the same advice that he is doling out to you so freely:
A statement like that proves you don't have a clue what the Christians believe, why not do some homework? why not try (to?) equipping yourself so that you would be able to communicate back to the Christians what they believe before you can offer your critic ?
It is also unfortunate that he is also accusing others of "eisegesis" - the very fault he and his happy band suffer from - and, again, I would strongly recommend megadoc drink his own medicine and follow his own advice... as this is the very tool he employs to refute the necessity of good works where the Christian belief of salvation is concerned.

look up hermeneutics ,Exegesis and the one used for people who erroneously interpret the bible Eisegesis when you are done talk to me ok.
let me help you a bit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_hermeneutics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exegesis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisegesis

Just as the Muslims believe that acts of charity are important, so too do Christians - I'm clearly not referring to those hoodwinked by old Luther's rantings.
The followers of the Christ are instructed to love one another... they are told by him that "Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me", and whoever fails in this regard is not going to spend eternity in bliss.
So while one does and can love because one experiences it, one is expected to love. This makes it a necessity - not a happy option, as megadoc's argument suggests.

(Stand by for rather good examples of eisegesis in megadoc's response to this post. )

[megadoc1]

(Stand by for rather good examples of eisegesis in megadoc's response to this post. )

nothing coming, stand down!