The Religion Discussion

[Bizzare]

fear is necessary when training a kid. don't think anyone would say otherwise.
"religion" does a good job at that

[MG Man]

I was more afraid of licks than anything else, but don't underestimate respect as a motivator........nobody really feared our school principal, but we all respected him, for the most part, unlike the deans, who we all feared but never really respected......

[16 cycles]

You shall have NO other gods before Me.

who said that and in what context?

does it mean there is more than one GOD?

[MG Man]

You shall have NO other gods before Me.

who said that and in what context?

does it mean there is more than one GOD?

ye lode english striketh again
I think it means:
'you dotish little fcuks better not pray to anything other than me, else I go bun allyuh sorryasses in hell muahahahahahahahaha btw I love yew gaize'

[RBphoto]

Religious stories about creation and good vs evil etc are a great way to teach morals and values children.

you can do that with Star Wars too

Yeah... but the incestual thing with luke and he sister dan.... not cool

[Bizzare]

i lol'ed

It means one can put another object before God in his/her life. Doesn't mean there are other Gods, but, you can replace God with something/someone else thus relatively make that something/someone your God. Y'all knew that's what it meant

[Chimera]

saw this on tv this morning


RNS) In his new book, "God, No!" atheist magician Penn Jillette tells how he was challenged by conservative radio host Glenn Beck to come up with an atheist's version of The Ten Commandments.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/s ... 50978982/1


1. The highest ideals are human intelligence, creativity and love. Respect these above all.
2. Do not put things or even ideas above other human beings. (Let's scream at each other about Kindle versus iPad, solar versus nuclear, Republican versus Libertarian, Garth Brooks versus Sun Ra— but when your house is on fire, I'll be there to help.)
3. Say what you mean, even when talking to yourself. (What used to be an oath to (G)od is now quite simply respecting yourself.)
4. Put aside some time to rest and think. (If you're religious, that might be the Sabbath; if you're a Vegas magician, that'll be the day with the lowest grosses.)
5. Be there for your family. Love your parents, your partner, and your children. (Love is deeper than honor, and parents matter, but so do spouse and children.)
6. Respect and protect all human life. (Many believe that "Thou shalt not kill" only refers to people in the same tribe. I say it's all human life.)
7. Keep your promises. (If you can't be sexually exclusive to your spouse, don't make that deal.)
8. Don't steal. (This includes magic tricks and jokes — you know who you are!)
9. Don't lie. (You know, unless you're doing magic tricks and it's part of your job. Does that make it OK for politicians, too?)
10. Don't waste too much time wishing, hoping, and being envious; it'll make you bugnutty.

[MG Man]

Or according to John Lennon, Give peace a chance, all you need is love

[RIPEBREDFRUIT]

just curious but i take it MG Man that you have no religious beliefs?

So in the world according to mgman from where did creation come from?

[maj. tom]

^ the same place where you believe your god(s) came from.

[RIPEBREDFRUIT]

^ the same place where you believe your god(s) came from.

Er is YOUR name mgman?

then HUSH YUH KANT, go back in your corner and wait for your daily sling shot feeding.

[Sky]

^^lulz were had.

[dnoah]

300 pages long... and the truest thing ever said within these pages is:

if your faith low, this statement have the potential to destroy you because it making sense.

The problem with faith is understanding it. Like everything else we have, it can grow, or diminish. Though faith seems to grow with application, it isn't a muscle that grows DUE to flexing - a mistaken belief held by many, not just fundamentalists. Faith's seeming growth through application actually takes place due to consideration/reflection of past actions and consequences (the use of critical and analytical thinking)... NOT to the application itself - hence its direct link to human logic and intelligence.

Here is where fundamentalists part ways with reality. Faith grows with doubt. Only when you question, when you ask 'why', can your faith truly develop as the answer becomes apparent. The answer may take years, decades... but that is part of your journey. Sometimes, a negative answer seems to diminish or eradicate what faith is there, but that is not so. To search is to find... to find is to continue looking. That is our nature.
Fundamentalists refute this. Faith to them is the opposite of doubt - to doubt is to fail, to fall... To be totally adamant allows presumption to rear its head in your life, accompanied by blindedness.
Faith is not the roadway... it's the light you use to see your way more clearly.

When you think about it are we just beliveing in a book because the book say's its true? for me this can't be all to it.This book must be free from all doubt,because if it is from god there cant be any mistakes in it and this book must not demand belief, it must invites you to belief by give in you evidence.

(d spike) quote

This is a mistake.
Firstly, the "book" is written by human beings, with all the frailties that accompany the species. What is believed about scripture is that it was inspired by God - not written by God.

dnoah

well when u say the "book" im gessing u mean the bible because muslims say the quran came direct from god and as 4 the jews, god gave moses the comandments. so then if the bible was written by man is this an excuse 4 it to have mistakes and doubtful statement in it even though it was inspired by god??

(d spike) quote

Secondly, the question of "evidence" has been dealt with before, but I will mention it once more. Faith is a matter of belief - there is NO evidence. (There can be no evidence... if there were, then it wouldn't be faith, now would it?) It doesn't truly matter whether a story really happened, but it is the meaning of that story which contains the Truth that must be applied.
Take the story of Jonah, for example. A lovely Talmudic fable that teaches about God's forgiveness... Do you need to believe the story ACTUALLY happened to understand what is taught? Of course not. What you NEED is to believe in a God - then you can concern yourself about His forgiveness.

dnoah

im sorry i dident see were the question of "evidence" has been dealt with before but i believe u must have some form of evidence in order to have faith for example
when you see a car u know their had to a manufacturer
when you see a leaf on the ground u know it came from a tree
when u step in dog poop you know a dog was there
so similarly when u look at createion , life the stars the moon the sun and even the big bang were did it all come from??? when i look around i alway see evidence of god

(d spike) quote

If a person needs a book to cause himself to believe in God, then I'm afraid such a person needs much more that just a book.

dnoah

i have to agree with you their however i would like to add u must acknowledge that there is a god and only then u can seek his guidance in his book

[Bizzare]

^ the same place where you believe your god(s) came from.

Er is YOUR name mgman?

then HUSH YUH KANT, go back in your corner and wait for your daily sling shot feeding.

fucktard, this is an open discussion. open for everyone's input like yuh wife legs were in d back seat ah yuh ranger.

[Chimera]

^ the same place where you believe your god(s) came from.

Er is YOUR name mgman?

then HUSH YUH KANT, go back in your corner and wait for your daily sling shot feeding.

fucktard, this is an open discussion. open for everyone's input like yuh wife legs were in d back seat ah yuh ranger.

[d spike]

If you people fighting about religion thinks this is all about religion...

Experience has shown me that folks who squabble over religion do so, not because of a strong moral sense, but because of pride and ego.

[AdamB]

For you, Sky, Kasey and anyone else asking to go back and read WHAT WAS SAID BEFORE. GET REAL, THAT'S UNREASONABLE, no one is going back to read a couple of hundred pages and thousands of posts where each of you would have posted hundreds of posts. If you guys want to keep your discussion going without interruption from newbies, then keep it via pm or work out something with the Administrator to keep it private, to stake your claim to this thread.

Once you say your part, but be open to the words of others (within reason of course) we cool.
Actually you doing much better than megadoc.

Who is Jesus to you?

Cool, once ppl understand that if yuh having ah discussion in real time, it's kinda weird to say, "I said so and so a year or two ago, weren't you listening?"

Thanks for the compliment, I think (sorry Megadoc).

Jesus is the guy I heard or first learnt about in Sunday school. But to me and the religion of Islam which I now follow (over 20yrs), he is a man, a great prophet of GOD Almighty.

Something that amazes me is that MG says that we were brainwashed as children but for the likes of me I don't think I ever imagined Jesus as the Son of GOD meaning anything more than a human being (as to what is ingrained in me). I had memorized scripture and was good at it (For GOD so loved..., For the wages of sin..., etc).

[RIPEBREDFRUIT]

^ the same place where you believe your god(s) came from.

Er is YOUR name mgman?

then HUSH YUH KANT, go back in your corner and wait for your daily sling shot feeding.

fucktard, this is an open discussion. open for everyone's input like yuh wife legs were in d back seat ah yuh ranger.

figures, all of you uneducated, ignorant, retarded idiots have to resort to insulting people about something you believe you know about.
How absolutely wierd that you seem to have listened to the very same person whos family LIED, cheated, and received illegal monies from the previous govt, and if you only knew that samer tuner is such a chii chii man and currently lives with his boyfriend in the usa in real life.

[AdamB]

You shall have NO other gods before Me.
taught to you as a child in roman catholic Faith, believe it and forget all other religions. talk done!
NEVER let anyone force their religion or their beliefs onto you

That's the first commandment of Moses.

It is also the first of the two testimonies to become a muslim (laa ilaaha ill Allah) meaning There is no god (worthy of worship) except the ONE TRUE GOD.

See the similarity?

[Kasey]

^ the same place where you believe your god(s) came from.

Er is YOUR name mgman?

then HUSH YUH KANT, go back in your corner and wait for your daily sling shot feeding.

fucktard, this is an open discussion. open for everyone's input like yuh wife legs were in d back seat ah yuh ranger.

WWHHOOOGAADDOOUUUIII!!!!!
Well said Bizzare. Immature people in here.

[AdamB]

^ the same place where you believe your god(s) came from.

Er is YOUR name mgman?

then HUSH YUH KANT, go back in your corner and wait for your daily sling shot feeding.

fucktard, this is an open discussion. open for everyone's input like yuh wife legs were in d back seat ah yuh ranger.

figures, all of you uneducated, ignorant, retarded idiots have to resort to insulting people about something you believe you know about.
How absolutely wierd that you seem to have listened to the very same person whos family LIED, cheated, and received illegal monies from the previous govt, and if you only knew that samer tuner is such a chii chii man and currently lives with his boyfriend in the usa in real life.[/quote]
Who dat be boy? Revelation on dis thread now?

[S_2NR]

^ the same place where you believe your god(s) came from.

Er is YOUR name mgman?

then HUSH YUH KANT, go back in your corner and wait for your daily sling shot feeding.

fucktard, this is an open discussion. open for everyone's input like yuh wife legs were in d back seat ah yuh ranger.

figures, all of you uneducated, ignorant, retarded idiots have to resort to insulting people about something you believe you know about.
How absolutely wierd that you seem to have listened to the very same person whos family LIED, cheated, and received illegal monies from the previous govt, and if you only knew that samer tuner is such a chii chii man and currently lives with his boyfriend in the usa in real life.

call names

[AdamB]

There is a huge debate happening now about death and where people go when they die. Is death a conscious state or an unconscious state?

Some are quoting the story of Lazarus and the beggar (given by Jesus) who both died and immediately one went to heaven and the other went to hell. The story goes that in hell Lazarus was tormented (conscious state) and begged God to send messengers to his brothers who were still alive to warn them about hell.

They also mention Jesus' statement to the thief that 'I tell you today you will be with me in paradise".

These give the impression that punishment and reward happen immediately after death and thus there is no need for a resurrection and judgment.

But the bible also says that when Jesus died he went and preached unto those "who sleep". So did he wake them up to hear the gospel and then let them go back to sleep until the resurrection?

What about the vision of Moses the disciples saw during the transfiguration? The bible does state that Moses died and there was a dispute between Satan and the Archangel Michael over his body. So was he resurrected to appear on the mountain with Elijah and Jesus?

What about the first and second resurrections mentioned in the Bible?

There is no recorded statement from Lazarus (who was resurrected by Jesus) about his death experience. Neither do we have a statement from Jairus' daughter who Jesus also raised from the dead. Nor do we have a statement from the widow's son who was raised from the dead by God through Elijah.

Can anyone shed some light?

I am so sorry I cannot respond as quickly as before due to pressure of work, family and study.

THE ISLAMIC CONCEPT:
The Soul is a creation of Allah, whose function is to bring life to the human body. It remains with the human body throughout the life and departs at death. After which the souls are either held in Paradise or punishment. There is no returning back of the souls of the righteous people from Paradise, and no escaping of the souls of evildoers from the punishment of the grave. Therefore, pious or evil, the souls do not return to this world, neither to take revenge nor to assist the living. Neither is there any concept in Islam, which explains that justice is dependant upon the soul's coming back and setting things aright. Islam teaches that Allah is responsible to see that every being gets its due right and injustice does not go unpunished.

Journey of the Soul after Death

Death Death occurs when the soul separates from the human body and enters the realm of 'Barzakh', which is the period between one's death and the Hereafter.

Appearing of the Angels

(a) The Believing Soul: Angels with faces shining bright like the sun descend from the Heavens, carrying a shroud and fragrance of Paradise and sit away from him as far as the eye can see. The Angel of Death then approaches and says: "O good soul, come out to Allah's forgiveness and pleasure." The soul then comes out as gently as a drop from a water-skin, and he seizes it. Within the blinking of an eye, the other Angels take the soul and put it in the shroud and fragrance. There will then come from the soul, a fragrance like that of the sweetest musk found on the face of Earth.

(b) The Disbelieving Soul: Angels with black faces come down to him from the Heaven with hair-cloth and sit away from him as far as an eye can see. The Angel of death comes to him and says: "O wicked soul, come out to the displeasure from Allah. The soul becomes scattered in the body, and the Angel of Death draws it out as violently as a spit is drawn out from moistened wool. He then seizes it, and when he does so, the other Angels do not leave the disbelieving soul in his hand for an instant, but put it in that hair-cloth and from it comes forth a smell like the most offensive corpse found on the Earth.

Ascending to the Heaven

(a) The Believing Soul: The Angels ascend the believing soul to the Seventh Heaven and every group of Angels they pass asks: "Who is this good soul?" to which they reply: "So and so, the son of so and so." using his best names by which people called him on the Earth. Then the believing soul is presented before Allah. Allah, the Great and Glorious, says: "Record the Book of My servant in the Illiyyoon and take him back to Earth, for I created mankind from it, and I shall return them to it, from it I shall bring them forth again."

(b) The Disbelieving Soul: The Angels take the disbelieving soul up to the Heaven and do not bring it pass a company of Angels without their saying: "Who is this wicked soul?" to which they reply: "So and so, the son of so and so." Using the worst names that he was called in the world. When he is brought to the lowest Heaven, request is made for the gate to be opened for him, but it is not opened for him. Allah, who is most Great and Glorious, then says: "Record his Book in Sijjin (the lowest place) and his soul is thrown down to Earth."

Questioning in the Grave
(a) The Believing Soul: The Soul is temporary restored in the body. Two Angels come to it and ask: "Who is your Lord?" He replies: "My Lord is Allah." They ask: "What is your religion? " He replies: "My religion is Islam." They ask: "Who is this man who was sent among you?" and He will reply: " He is the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu alaihe wa-sallam)." They ask: "What was the source of your knowledge?" He replies: "I have read Allah's Book, believed in it and declared it to be true." Then one cry is heard from the Heaven: "My servant has spoken the truth..."

(b) The Disbelieving Soul: Angels approach the disbelieving soul for questioning, but he can barely answer their questions by saying: 'Alas! I do not know…'

The Abode and Companion
(a) The Believing Soul: Some of the joys of Paradise and its fragrance come to him and his grave is made spacious for him as far as an eye can see. A man with a beautiful face, beautiful garments and sweet odor comes to the righteous slave and says: "Rejoice in what pleases you, for this is your day which you have been promised." He asks: "Who are you?" He replies: "I am your good deeds." He then says: "My Lord, bring the Last Hour; my Lord bring the Last Hour, so I may return to my people and my property."

(b) The Disbelieving Soul: Some of the Hell's heat and hot air comes to him, his grave is made narrow for him such that his ribs interpenetrate into each other. A man with an ugly face, ugly garments and an offensive odor comes to him and says: "Be grieved with what displeases you, for this is your day which you have been promised." He asks: "Who are you? For your face is most ugly and brings evil." He replies: "I am your wicked deeds." He then says: "My Lord, do not bring the Last Hour."
From the above we know how the soul is taken out of the human body upon death and presented before Allah. If the soul is righteous, it enjoys the bounties of Allah and if it is wicked, it suffers the torment of the grave, which is very severe and none can escape its anguish and suffering. The Messenger of Allah (sallallahu alaihe wa-sallam) said: "This Ummah will be tried in its grave. If it were not for the fear that you might not bury your dead, I would pray to Allah to make you hear what I hear." [Saheeh Muslim]
Uthman Ibn Affan (radhiallahu anhu) used to cry until he wet his beard, if he was to stand on a grave. He was told: 'You mention the Heaven and the Hell-Fire and you don't cry, but when you mention the grave, you burst in tears!' He said: 'I heard the Prophet of Allah (sallallahu alaihe wa-sallam) saying: "The grave is the first stage of the Hereafter, whoever passes it will be at ease afterwards, and if he does not succeed in it, he will be in worst of conditions." I also heard him saying: "Never have I seen a sight more horrifying than that of grave."

To the living, the grave is simply an empty, dark hole in the ground, but to the dead it is a window into either Paradise or Hell, where he faces the realities of the Hereafter all by himself. The grave is a place of solitude, and there is no greater isolation than this! What can be a bigger isolation for someone, than being separated from parents, family, and relatives? One leaves back all his possession and wealth and is put in the grave, under gravel and sand? Nothing accompanies the dead in his grave except his deeds, Allah's Messenger (sallallahu alaihe wa-sallam) said: "Three things follow a dead man, two of which will return and one will remain with him. His people, his property and his deeds follow him but his people and property return, while his deeds remain with him." [Saheeh al-Bukharee (8/ 521)]

At this time, if one's deeds are good and righteous, they become for him a good company. Allah's Messenger (sallallahu alaihe wa-sallam) said: "(After the questioning) a man with a beautiful face, beautiful garments and sweet odor comes to the righteous slave and says: "Rejoice in what pleases you, for this is your day which you have been promised." He asks: "Who are you? For your face is perfectly beautiful and brings good." He replies: "I am your good deeds." He then says: "My Lord, bring the Last Hour; my Lord bring the Last Hour, so I may return to my people and my property." Regarding the evildoer, he (sallallahu alaihe wa-sallam) said: "… a man with an ugly face, ugly garments and an offensive odor comes to him and says: "Be grieved with what displeases you, for this is your day which you have been promised." He asks: "Who are you? For your face is most ugly and brings evil." He replies: "I am your wicked deeds." He then says: "My Lord, do not bring the Last Hour." [Saheeh al-Jami as-Sageer, 1/1676]

All this and the Hereafter has still not commenced for us. So, let this be a reminder for all to prepare for death by doing good deeds in accordance to the Qur'aan and the Sunnah, even if it means to give a trifle in charity. Allah's Messenger (sallallahu alaihe wa-sallam) said: "Protect yourself from the Hellfire, even by a part of a date (that is given in charity)." [Saheeh al-Bukharee]

After clarifying the good and evil in this world, Allah, the Exalted, has given every man a free will to choose between them. It is up to the individual, whether he takes enough good deeds to accompany him in his grave, or he chooses to carry the burden of evil deeds. This choice of evil and good is only valid as long as one is alive. As death approaches, all deeds come to an end and the person becomes weak and helpless; so helpless that after death he is in need of the living to give him ghusl, shroud him, place him in his grave and make Du'aa for his forgiveness. Allah's Messenger (sallallahu alaihe wa-sallam) said: "When the coffin is ready (for its burial) and people lift it on their shoulders, then if the deceased is a righteous person he says, 'Take me ahead,' if he is not a righteous one, then he says, 'Woe to it (me)! Where are you taking it (me)!' And his voice is audible to everything except human beings; if they heard it they would fall down unconscious." [Bukharee (2/ 462)]

http://www.allahsword.com/free_islamic_ ... hirah.html

[bluefete]

^ the same place where you believe your god(s) came from.

Er is YOUR name mgman?

then HUSH YUH KANT, go back in your corner and wait for your daily sling shot feeding.

fucktard, this is an open discussion. open for everyone's input like yuh wife legs were in d back seat ah yuh ranger.

figures, all of you uneducated, ignorant, retarded idiots have to resort to insulting people about something you believe you know about.
How absolutely wierd that you seem to have listened to the very same person whos family LIED, cheated, and received illegal monies from the previous govt, and if you only knew that samer tuner is such a chii chii man and currently lives with his boyfriend in the usa in real life.

call names

GENTLEMEN: Ahem!!! Please keep it clean. This is, after all, a religious discussion!! Save the vitriol for another thread.

Thank you very much!

[sMASH]

well, so far i have the explanation of god and jesus.now all that's left is the holy spirit.

[MG Man]

single barrel?

[megadoc1]

lol @ mg

[AdamB]

Well yuh done get d double barrel, so only one left!

[d spike]

untillllllllllllllll spike finishes what he has started....

Got sidetracked... Sorry.

well, so far i have the explanation of god and jesus.now all that's left is the holy spirit.

I suppose my explanation was not succinct enough. Allow me to review a point first.

...If this Idea of oneself were truly perfect, it would take form... become real... a form, exact and identical in every way... NOT another being, NOT a copy - for this implies it is less than perfect. The SAME, not a twin - for then that is two Beings...

This Idea is Perfect in every way, so the Idea of Goodness would be Good. The Idea of Love can love. Goodness loves that which is Good.
As this Idea is Perfect in every way, thus it too can know and love.
It knows the Father, and loves the Father.
This Love the Idea has for its Origin, and the Love that the Origin has for the Idea of Himself, is perfect too!
This Love takes form, as only Perfect Love can, and it flows between the Origin and the Idea.

Thus the Trinity:
One Nature... God.
...but Three Persons. The Origin, the Idea, the Perfect Love and Awareness.
The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Three Persons in one God.

"The Holy Spirit,
proceeds from the Father and the Son..."

Christians believe that the Holy Spirit is the Perfect Love that flows between the Father and the Son.
This Love is perfect, so it too takes form, existing as the Third Person of the Trinity.


I was going to show errors that cropped up where belief in the Trinity was concerned, as studying why these "heresies" are wrong tends to help understand better what IS believed... but today was more tiring than it had any right to be... so I'll be horizontal for a while. If in a while, consciousness is considered acceptable by whatever surviving neurons I have left, I will continue.

[sMASH]

ok, is there any more info on the 'idea' part?