Basdeo Panday: “The PNM will Win the next General Election” ...

[Redress10]

Indos are pacified when unc is in power and afros are pacified when pnm is in power. That is the reality of the situation.

You lost meh dey.

I think you mean emboldened.
For example look how the crime rate increases when Pnm is in charge, and most of the bandits/murderers/pests are Pnm voters/supporters. And look at the victims of the crimes (referring to robbery/home invasion/etc, not pest killing pest)

And don't say I being racial.
I watching the LGE results-map when I use the term pnm voters

That's the other side of the coin. Pacified meaning their is less unrest and aggression by the race in power. Their people are more aggreable to the party in power etc. There's less defiance against the state.

[zoom rader]

Corruption. Corruption made UNC so bad. It made them so bad that the country voted them out. The country never wanted PNM in power. They voted UNC out. Before that, the country voted the PNM out. What you are calling for is a repeat of 2010 which will then give rise to a repeat of 2015 when we hit 2025. I'll set out my argument in point form and you can just pick which ones you disagree with and just reference the ones you agree with

1.0 The people of Trinidad and Tobago have a short political memory.
1.1 This leads to us being prejudiced against the party currently in power because their more recent atrocities overshadow those of the previous administration from 5 years before. Check out the effect.
2010 "PNM is the worst. We need to vote them out. The UNC is the only viable option."
2015 "UNC is the worst. We need to vote them out. How bad could the PNM be. Manning gone now"
2020 "PNM is the worst. We need to vote them out.... the UNC... is the.... hmmm.... this road look familiar..."
2025 "???"

2.0 The UNC and the PNM are far friendlier than to each other than they portray towards their supporters. They protect each other from any real harm.
2.1 Four years into the PNM administration and Rowley still alleging rampant corruption in the UNC. How many UNC politicians are being investigated right now? What happened to Life Sport. Side question... what Anil Roberts up to these days after he was a central figure in Life Sport?
2.2 The Uff Report and the Bernard report were at the UNC's disposal when they were in power and many PNM advocates and influencers were named (not sure what to call them). What came of those investigations?

3.0 Voting for the "Lesser of Two Evils" sets the bar extremely low for the person tasked with leading our nation. According to your argument, even if one party is actively hurting the country, we should still vote for them as long as they are hurting the country less than the other party. How can we move forward as a nation if we tell our leaders that moving backwards is an acceptable solution, once they not moving backwards as fast as the next person.

4.0 Voting for the "lesser of two evils" when there is a better third option because it is not a viable option ensures that a third party will never be a viable option. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy grounded in stupidity and resulting in suffering.
4.1 We are a bandwagonist culture. But worse yet, we complain about other being bandwagonists while complaining from the top of our own bandwagon. You complain that a third party will never be a viable option because people won't vote for it. When asked people like you if they will vote for a good third party you say no... because people like them not voting for it *jackiechanwhaaaaaaface.jpg*

5.0 Voting for the "lesser of two evils" perpetuates a lazy and politically uninformed voting base that is both the symptom and the cause of the very tribal based voting system that you complain about.
5.1 If we want better representation we need to become better voters. That means looking at all the options and choosing the option that we think is best. That way you only reward the who you think is best. To do anything else is just a waste of your vote and foolish. It will send the message to the orange party that they just need to be better than the worse part of themself and it will send the message to good alternatives that it does not make sense to try. The game is deterministic in nature and it has already determined that the best options shall not be rewarded so don't bother to try.

6.0 Conclusions -
6.1 People should be encouraged to go out and voting. Abstaining is bad for our future.
6.2 People should educate themselves on all of the alternatives that are available, or at the very least, pay attention to representatives outside of the orange party.
6.3 People should vote ONLY on who they think will be the BEST option. Voting is an independent right and should not be influenced by the voting trends of others.

So go ahead and vote UNC if you want, but do so if you think they will do the best job at building this country. Do not cast your vote in anger or else you will be lead in incompetence. Cast your vote based on your own personal good judgement and encourage others to do the same.

What UNC corruption?

[Slartibartfast]

Your head in the right place but it's unrealistic, COP had the best momentum ever for a 3rd party and they did not win a seat. A 3rd party to succeedimg5 is extremely unlikely. And guess what? You'll end up with another 'corrupt' party after 5 years, just human nature especially here in tnt

That is because they hesitated and allowed themselves to be swallowed by the UNC. If they remained independent they would could have been a viable third party now. I think everybody's problem in this country is that we do not think long term.

Following your logic, do you think that UNC and PNM will last for the next 50 years, 100 years, 500 years, 1000 years? It's common knowledge that nothing lasts forever, so why treat the orange party like they are going to?

Also, how else do you expect change to start? They will meet their end somewhere and at sometime. This is how change starts. With one person, taking one action to start on a non-viable solution until it builds into something viable.

Voting the "lesser of two evils" just delays this change for the better so that we can continue down the same path that has been failing is for the last 10 years.

Again, I agree with you btw. You are correct when you say that a 3rd part succeeding is extemely unlikely. In fact I will say it is impossible for one to succeed in 2020, 5% chance for success in 2025 and maybe a 15% chance of success in 2030 if we stop voting for the lesser of two evils now. But if we continue, we just delay the inevitable. The PNM and UNC will end because all things that exist come to an end. The question is, how do you want it to end. In your control with some chance at a better future or when our economy just cant handle the poor leadership anymore and we end up like Venezuela.

I also don't agree that a non indo or afro should be our PM. Our gov't needs to reflect the need and realities of country. A non indo or afro wouldn't be able to relate to the majority races of the island so why should they lead them?

This is racist, but worse than that, it's just a poor argument. Why can't a non indo or afro relate to the races of the island?

You're missing a major point though, what made UNC so bad? Almost nothing, every time they've been in power T&T goes through a rapid transformation and improvement in almost every area of governance. That is a fact, what UNC does in 5 years usually would take PNM 15 or never.

You really think COP was a viable alternative? Third parties are almost always a gimmick and window-dressing. They're idealistic and inexperienced.

Look at PEP, they are retards, it's as if you take the complainers in a company (unionized workers usually), the ones who complain about everything, as if they have all the answers, and then put them in charge.

What happens? Nothing, their plans don't work, they waste time and resources, they complain even more. The smart ones adapt and become the same thing they hated, the very good ones will do that, but fix some core issues. But that takes experience which most 3rd parties lack.

Secondly, we'll never get the best ppl in government unless they truly has a passion for politics. It isn't a easy life, constant scrutiny, criticism and lack of reward.

Tell me, why must I with my education and experience, wait 15 years to make a difference (if ever). You think I can string a long worthy people for 15 years or more with no real reward?

There is no such thing a viable 3rs party. If by some miracle they get into power or form a coalition government, guess what? They'll end up exactly like the former governments in some way. It's human nature.

We have 2 parties in Trinidad. One that's obviously controlled by the 1% and the other controlled by a different group (and some 1%) but they cater far more to the need of the people. They don't live in a bubble, they actively try to improve Trinidad.

Tell me where I'm wrong, I'm showing you how wrong your idealism is and how your 'good intentions' can lead to 15 years of PNM and the ultimate downfall of Trinidad.

Corruption. Corruption made UNC so bad.

What UNC corruption?

EFCL, CISL to name a few that made the newspapers. I witness a lot as well as I was involved in the construction industry during that time but the documents are property of the companies I worked for so I can't name names without risking a libel lawsuit on myself.

It made them so bad that the country voted them out. The country never wanted PNM in power. They voted UNC out. Before that, the country voted the PNM out. What you are calling for is a repeat of 2010 which will then give rise to a repeat of 2015 when we hit 2025. I'll set out my argument in point form and you can just pick which ones you disagree with and just reference the ones you agree with

1.0 The people of Trinidad and Tobago have a short political memory.
1.1 This leads to us being prejudiced against the party currently in power because their more recent atrocities overshadow those of the previous administration from 5 years before. Check out the effect.
2010 "PNM is the worst. We need to vote them out. The UNC is the only viable option."
2015 "UNC is the worst. We need to vote them out. How bad could the PNM be. Manning gone now"
2020 "PNM is the worst. We need to vote them out.... the UNC... is the.... hmmm.... this road look familiar..."
2025 "???"

2.0 The UNC and the PNM are far friendlier than to each other than they portray towards their supporters. They protect each other from any real harm.
2.1 Four years into the PNM administration and Rowley still alleging rampant corruption in the UNC. How many UNC politicians are being investigated right now? What happened to Life Sport. Side question... what Anil Roberts up to these days after he was a central figure in Life Sport?
2.2 The Uff Report and the Bernard report were at the UNC's disposal when they were in power and many PNM advocates and influencers were named (not sure what to call them). What came of those investigations?

3.0 Voting for the "Lesser of Two Evils" sets the bar extremely low for the person tasked with leading our nation. According to your argument, even if one party is actively hurting the country, we should still vote for them as long as they are hurting the country less than the other party. How can we move forward as a nation if we tell our leaders that moving backwards is an acceptable solution, once they not moving backwards as fast as the next person.

4.0 Voting for the "lesser of two evils" when there is a better third option because it is not a viable option ensures that a third party will never be a viable option. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy grounded in stupidity and resulting in suffering.
4.1 We are a bandwagonist culture. But worse yet, we complain about other being bandwagonists while complaining from the top of our own bandwagon. You complain that a third party will never be a viable option because people won't vote for it. When asked people like you if they will vote for a good third party you say no... because people like them not voting for it *jackiechanwhaaaaaaface.jpg*

5.0 Voting for the "lesser of two evils" perpetuates a lazy and politically uninformed voting base that is both the symptom and the cause of the very tribal based voting system that you complain about.
5.1 If we want better representation we need to become better voters. That means looking at all the options and choosing the option that we think is best. That way you only reward the who you think is best. To do anything else is just a waste of your vote and foolish. It will send the message to the orange party that they just need to be better than the worse part of themself and it will send the message to good alternatives that it does not make sense to try. The game is deterministic in nature and it has already determined that the best options shall not be rewarded so don't bother to try.

6.0 Voting for the "lesser of two evils" takes all of the self corrective measures out of the democratic process.
6.1 So what if we elect a waste of time third party. By having an informed voting base we are sure to get them out of there quickly and not have to bother with them again. We are now able to act as the corrective force in the system.
6.2 We would not have to treat politicians as though they are royalty. Allowing them to keep their job regarding of criminal allegations or lack of performance. Look Anil Roberts making and comeback and Marlene McDonald has made more comebacks than a wrestlemania title match.

7.0 Conclusions -
7.1 People should be encouraged to go out and voting. Abstaining is bad for our future.
7.2 People should educate themselves on all of the alternatives that are available, or at the very least, pay attention to representatives outside of the orange party.
7.3 People should vote ONLY on who they think will be the BEST option. Voting is an independent right and should not be influenced by the voting trends of others.

So go ahead and vote UNC if you want, but do so if you think they will do the best job at building this country. Do not cast your vote in anger or else you will be lead in incompetence. Cast your vote based on your own personal good judgement and encourage others to do the same.

[Redman]

Well said Slartibartfast


ZR-will have nothing but ole talk-and the facts known only to him.
If you get past that you will 'not understand the higher heights he operating that.
Both would be after he calls you a blogger....and some other banal BS.

[Redress10]

Corruption is based on historical social inequalities and marginalisation faced by indos and afros before independence. Our system was always corrupt it was never meant to be fair. The white minority elite needed the races divided to ensure access to the wealth. This has been replaced by the oligarchs and political directorship who continue these practices.

1.0 This has nothing to do with political memory. We are not sophisticated political beings. This country votes on race and race only. Your points here apply to swing voters who vote according to policy etc. Unc and pnm are assured of x amount of votes each election. Unc more than pnm cause their supporters never abstain from voting even when pissed with unc. Pnm supporters abstain when they angry at pnm causing pnm to lose elections.

2.0 The game isn't development. The game js politics to ensure access to govt funds to enrich friends and family. That is is. If it was abt development then corruption facilitators would face court and not picong on a political stage. Remember that gov't is the largest company in TT. They dominate the economy. We elect people to be in charge of billions of our money who have never even run a cake sale in their lives and then complain when they are abject failures.

Like I said "lessor evil" voting applies to swing voters and not the die hard UNC and PNM voters. Swing voters are usually more politically sophisticated and educated than both parties' supporters.

All of this is pointless because the country itself has no direction. TT hasn't figured out what it wants to be in the world. The country doesn't know what development is. Manning vision of development was a set of white elephants all over the place. Kamla boasts that she build a children's hospital. Rowley building highway to Toco. We are a LEGO nation.

[Blaze d Chalice]

The problem with the the PeePee was that they too damn slack and needed a good cut ass.

PNM allegedly did so much chit in all the years, it would have been a clear cut job for PeePee when they win.
All they had to do was just focus fixing pnm problems and don't study to get involved in bobol.

If they had done that, people would have had no doubts to vote them back in for a next 5 years, and then they could do their bobol if they so wished. They could have even totally ignore the Red areas of Beetham/Laventille/Sea Lots - (since all they contribute is crime) and focus on the other 90% of the country and get votes from the same 90% at next election, which would have resulted in a win

But they went in there knowing that all eyes would be on them, and knowing that Pnm supporters minds are hardwired to only vote pnm, so this was a golden opportunity to have so many pnm voters vote for them, and should have made the best of it.

But they went in there and went into the bobol business and the rest is history.

You think pnm voters will ever forget that?

Maybe if this was 50 years ago with no tv and internet and fassbook they might have stood a better chance.
But now all you have to do is repost/share and old article and is froth.

[zoom rader]

Your head in the right place but it's unrealistic, COP had the best momentum ever for a 3rd party and they did not win a seat. A 3rd party to succeedimg5 is extremely unlikely. And guess what? You'll end up with another 'corrupt' party after 5 years, just human nature especially here in tnt

That is because they hesitated and allowed themselves to be swallowed by the UNC. If they remained independent they would could have been a viable third party now. I think everybody's problem in this country is that we do not think long term.

Following your logic, do you think that UNC and PNM will last for the next 50 years, 100 years, 500 years, 1000 years? It's common knowledge that nothing lasts forever, so why treat the orange party like they are going to?

Also, how else do you expect change to start? They will meet their end somewhere and at sometime. This is how change starts. With one person, taking one action to start on a non-viable solution until it builds into something viable.

Voting the "lesser of two evils" just delays this change for the better so that we can continue down the same path that has been failing is for the last 10 years.

Again, I agree with you btw. You are correct when you say that a 3rd part succeeding is extemely unlikely. In fact I will say it is impossible for one to succeed in 2020, 5% chance for success in 2025 and maybe a 15% chance of success in 2030 if we stop voting for the lesser of two evils now. But if we continue, we just delay the inevitable. The PNM and UNC will end because all things that exist come to an end. The question is, how do you want it to end. In your control with some chance at a better future or when our economy just cant handle the poor leadership anymore and we end up like Venezuela.

I also don't agree that a non indo or afro should be our PM. Our gov't needs to reflect the need and realities of country. A non indo or afro wouldn't be able to relate to the majority races of the island so why should they lead them?

This is racist, but worse than that, it's just a poor argument. Why can't a non indo or afro relate to the races of the island?

You're missing a major point though, what made UNC so bad? Almost nothing, every time they've been in power T&T goes through a rapid transformation and improvement in almost every area of governance. That is a fact, what UNC does in 5 years usually would take PNM 15 or never.

You really think COP was a viable alternative? Third parties are almost always a gimmick and window-dressing. They're idealistic and inexperienced.

Look at PEP, they are retards, it's as if you take the complainers in a company (unionized workers usually), the ones who complain about everything, as if they have all the answers, and then put them in charge.

What happens? Nothing, their plans don't work, they waste time and resources, they complain even more. The smart ones adapt and become the same thing they hated, the very good ones will do that, but fix some core issues. But that takes experience which most 3rd parties lack.

Secondly, we'll never get the best ppl in government unless they truly has a passion for politics. It isn't a easy life, constant scrutiny, criticism and lack of reward.

Tell me, why must I with my education and experience, wait 15 years to make a difference (if ever). You think I can string a long worthy people for 15 years or more with no real reward?

There is no such thing a viable 3rs party. If by some miracle they get into power or form a coalition government, guess what? They'll end up exactly like the former governments in some way. It's human nature.

We have 2 parties in Trinidad. One that's obviously controlled by the 1% and the other controlled by a different group (and some 1%) but they cater far more to the need of the people. They don't live in a bubble, they actively try to improve Trinidad.

Tell me where I'm wrong, I'm showing you how wrong your idealism is and how your 'good intentions' can lead to 15 years of PNM and the ultimate downfall of Trinidad.

Corruption. Corruption made UNC so bad.

What UNC corruption?

EFCL, CISL to name a few that made the newspapers. I witness a lot as well as I was involved in the construction industry during that time but the documents are property of the companies I worked for so I can't name names without risking a libel lawsuit on myself.

It made them so bad that the country voted them out. The country never wanted PNM in power. They voted UNC out. Before that, the country voted the PNM out. What you are calling for is a repeat of 2010 which will then give rise to a repeat of 2015 when we hit 2025. I'll set out my argument in point form and you can just pick which ones you disagree with and just reference the ones you agree with

1.0 The people of Trinidad and Tobago have a short political memory.
1.1 This leads to us being prejudiced against the party currently in power because their more recent atrocities overshadow those of the previous administration from 5 years before. Check out the effect.
2010 "PNM is the worst. We need to vote them out. The UNC is the only viable option."
2015 "UNC is the worst. We need to vote them out. How bad could the PNM be. Manning gone now"
2020 "PNM is the worst. We need to vote them out.... the UNC... is the.... hmmm.... this road look familiar..."
2025 "???"

2.0 The UNC and the PNM are far friendlier than to each other than they portray towards their supporters. They protect each other from any real harm.
2.1 Four years into the PNM administration and Rowley still alleging rampant corruption in the UNC. How many UNC politicians are being investigated right now? What happened to Life Sport. Side question... what Anil Roberts up to these days after he was a central figure in Life Sport?
2.2 The Uff Report and the Bernard report were at the UNC's disposal when they were in power and many PNM advocates and influencers were named (not sure what to call them). What came of those investigations?

3.0 Voting for the "Lesser of Two Evils" sets the bar extremely low for the person tasked with leading our nation. According to your argument, even if one party is actively hurting the country, we should still vote for them as long as they are hurting the country less than the other party. How can we move forward as a nation if we tell our leaders that moving backwards is an acceptable solution, once they not moving backwards as fast as the next person.

4.0 Voting for the "lesser of two evils" when there is a better third option because it is not a viable option ensures that a third party will never be a viable option. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy grounded in stupidity and resulting in suffering.
4.1 We are a bandwagonist culture. But worse yet, we complain about other being bandwagonists while complaining from the top of our own bandwagon. You complain that a third party will never be a viable option because people won't vote for it. When asked people like you if they will vote for a good third party you say no... because people like them not voting for it *jackiechanwhaaaaaaface.jpg*

5.0 Voting for the "lesser of two evils" perpetuates a lazy and politically uninformed voting base that is both the symptom and the cause of the very tribal based voting system that you complain about.
5.1 If we want better representation we need to become better voters. That means looking at all the options and choosing the option that we think is best. That way you only reward the who you think is best. To do anything else is just a waste of your vote and foolish. It will send the message to the orange party that they just need to be better than the worse part of themself and it will send the message to good alternatives that it does not make sense to try. The game is deterministic in nature and it has already determined that the best options shall not be rewarded so don't bother to try.

6.0 Voting for the "lesser of two evils" takes all of the self corrective measures out of the democratic process.
6.1 So what if we elect a waste of time third party. By having an informed voting base we are sure to get them out of there quickly and not have to bother with them again. We are now able to act as the corrective force in the system.
6.2 We would not have to treat politicians as though they are royalty. Allowing them to keep their job regarding of criminal allegations or lack of performance. Look Anil Roberts making and comeback and Marlene McDonald has made more comebacks than a wrestlemania title match.

7.0 Conclusions -
7.1 People should be encouraged to go out and voting. Abstaining is bad for our future.
7.2 People should educate themselves on all of the alternatives that are available, or at the very least, pay attention to representatives outside of the orange party.
7.3 People should vote ONLY on who they think will be the BEST option. Voting is an independent right and should not be influenced by the voting trends of others.

So go ahead and vote UNC if you want, but do so if you think they will do the best job at building this country. Do not cast your vote in anger or else you will be lead in incompetence. Cast your vote based on your own personal good judgement and encourage others to do the same.

All that you said is hearsay coming from PNM media house with an agenda and not Valid.

When they make a Jail and then come and talk to me.

Until then its just a good story

[zoom rader]

Well said Slartibartfast


ZR-will have nothing but ole talk-and the facts known only to him.
If you get past that you will 'not understand the higher heights he operating that.
Both would be after he calls you a blogger....and some other banal BS.

What Facts?

A story from the PNM houses ?

Who make a Jail for UNC corruption? Bas?

All that he said is Just hearsay

[Slartibartfast]

Corruption is based on historical social inequalities and marginalisation faced by indos and afros before independence. Our system was always corrupt it was never meant to be fair. The white minority elite needed the races divided to ensure access to the wealth. This has been replaced by the oligarchs and political directorship who continue these practices.

1.0 This has nothing to do with political memory. We are not sophisticated political beings. This country votes on race and race only. Your points here apply to swing voters who vote according to policy etc. Unc and pnm are assured of x amount of votes each election. Unc more than pnm cause their supporters never abstain from voting even when pissed with unc. Pnm supporters abstain when they angry at pnm causing pnm to lose elections.

2.0 The game isn't development. The game js politics to ensure access to govt funds to enrich friends and family. That is is. If it was abt development then corruption facilitators would face court and not picong on a political stage. Remember that gov't is the largest company in TT. They dominate the economy. We elect people to be in charge of billions of our money who have never even run a cake sale in their lives and then complain when they are abject failures.

Like I said "lessor evil" voting applies to swing voters and not the die hard UNC and PNM voters. Swing voters are usually more politically sophisticated and educated than both parties' supporters.

All of this is pointless because the country itself has no direction. TT hasn't figured out what it wants to be in the world. The country doesn't know what development is. Manning vision of development was a set of white elephants all over the place. Kamla boasts that she build a children's hospital. Rowley building highway to Toco. We are a LEGO nation.

Again, I'm not sure if you are saying swing voters should vote for the "lesser of two evils" or if you are saying that voting the "lesser of two evils" is the only option that will get a tangible result in the short term future.

[Redress10]

Nothing about lesser of two evils. What you requesting requires a population with critical analysis skills. Our education system doesn't allow for that. Our problems run deep.

Jamaica seems to be doing good now.Going through real development policies. That's what real transformational leadership looks like. It can be done but we just have to be bold enough to demand it. Pressure groups, ngos etc. You can force ya gov't to develop ya country. Protest all white elephants etc , FOI requests. We still placing garbage bags on the streets and local corporation can't even provide garbage bins to residents to secure their garbage.

We failing at basic things in this country.

[Slartibartfast]

All that you said is hearsay coming from PNM media house with an agenda and not Valid.

When they make a Jail and then come and talk to me.

Until then its just a good story

I did work with EFCL and CISL as well as countless others. I had colleagues that worked with these entities as well. I have enough first hand knowledge to confirm for myself what I saw printed in the news papers about both entities. Also, everything I witnessed was completely legal. A lot of corruption is. That's a huge part of the problem.

My point is they won't make a jail, not because they aren't corrupt, but because the PNM supports them more than you do. How many PNM politicians made a jail under UNC? Are you also of the view that the PNM is a beacon for honesty, transparency and integrity as well?

Zoom, I am of the view that if you were to look past your political biases you would be an extremely intelligent individual.

Try to look at the UNC through your PNM glasses


and I guarantee it will blow your mind.

[zoom rader]

All that you said is hearsay coming from PNM media house with an agenda and not Valid.

When they make a Jail and then come and talk to me.

Until then its just a good story

I did work with EFCL and CISL as well as countless others. I had colleagues that worked with these entities as well. I have enough first hand knowledge to confirm for myself what I saw printed in the news papers about both entities. Also, everything I witnessed was completely legal. A lot of corruption is. That's a huge part of the problem.

My point is they won't make a jail, not because they aren't corrupt, but because the PNM supports them more than you do. How many PNM politicians made a jail under UNC? Are you also of the view that the PNM is a beacon for honesty, transparency and integrity as well?

Zoom, I am of the view that if you were to look past your political biases you would be an extremely intelligent individual.

Try to look at the UNC through your PNM glasses


and I guarantee it will blow your mind.

It's all hearsay bro

Like you forget Panday made jail

[Slartibartfast]

Nothing about lesser of two evils. What you requesting requires a population with critical analysis skills. Our education system doesn't allow for that. Our problems run deep.

Realistically we do need to vote for lesser of two evils in short term. Jamaica seems to be doing good now. Going through real development policies so it can be done.

I agree with the first paragraph. The funny thing with your second paragraph is that I that you are not wrong, just 10 years too late.

Keep in mind, transitioning to having a viable 3rd party will obviously be the most uncertain time. By voting for the lesser of two evils we have been in a steady decline for the past 10 to 15 years. Do you want to try to make that leap now or would you rather wait until it gets worse?

We could look back now and say COP came at a good time but back then people were saying the same thing. In 10 years time do you want to look back and say we made the right choice to start now or that we made a bad choice waiting too long and use that for justification for waiting longer still.

I don't mean any disrespect to any of you guys but I get the feeling I am talking to people from an older generation that grew up in a time of relative stability and that are so scared of the unknown so you rather suffer a little worse of the same. I'm 30 years old btw so correct me if I'm wrong, but if that is the case then I do understand where you are coming from.

[Redress10]

Slartibartfast

The problem is not the two party system.

The problem is that trinis have no clue what development and nation building is so it doesn't matter who sits in that seat. Nothing is going to get done until the country changes its mindset and puts development at the forefront.

Let's be real now TT occupies some of the lowest rankings in terms of development. Shouldn't our development be based on climbing these rankings. For instance, if our economy is ranked 90 something shouldn't we be aiming to reach 60 something in 5 years and 30 something in 10 years and create policy to reflect this? That by itself will ensure we moving in the right direction. Instead we getting excuses based on "culture" or because we "third world". Just paving roads and making highways not going to make us developed but its going to encourage corruption though.

I am 30 as well.

[Slartibartfast]

Slartibartfast

The problem is not the two party system.

The problem is that trinis have no clue what development and nation building is so it doesn't matter who sits in that seat. Nothing is going to get done until the country changes its mindset and puts development at the forefront.

Let's be real now TT occupies some of the lowest rankings in terms of development. Shouldn't our development be based on climbing these rankings. For instance, if our economy is ranked 90 something shouldn't we be aiming to reach 60 something in 5 years and 30 something in 10 years and create policy to reflect this? That by itself will ensure we moving in the right direction. Instead we getting excuses based on "culture" or because we "third world". Just paving roads and making highways not going to make us developed but its going to encourage corruption though.

I am 30 as well.

Again, our opinions are almost the same. I'll jist say that there are some trinis that know better and thanks to the internet that number grows everyday.

My problem is voting for the lesser of two evils will only guarantee that we continue to have the same problems. Voting based on knowledge will be rough at first but ultimately it will get better. We will need to do it some time amd it's better to get it started sooner than later.

As for zoom boy, I know nothing will change your mind. That is a sad thing because by deciding to fix your mind to your bias you habe rendered both your vote and your opinion worthless. I don't think you are a fool because you make good arguments sometimes. I just think you habe grown too attached to foolish ideas. Anyway, you have no reason to believe me. I was there and experienced things first hand so I know what went on, but thats just me.

[l33t2]

Slartibartfast

The problem is not the two party system.

The problem is that trinis have no clue what development and nation building is so it doesn't matter who sits in that seat. Nothing is going to get done until the country changes its mindset and puts development at the forefront.

Let's be real now TT occupies some of the lowest rankings in terms of development. Shouldn't our development be based on climbing these rankings. For instance, if our economy is ranked 90 something shouldn't we be aiming to reach 60 something in 5 years and 30 something in 10 years and create policy to reflect this? That by itself will ensure we moving in the right direction. Instead we getting excuses based on "culture" or because we "third world". Just paving roads and making highways not going to make us developed but its going to encourage corruption though.

I am 30 as well.

Again, our opinions are almost the same. I'll jist say that there are some trinis that know better and thanks to the internet that number grows everyday.

My problem is voting for the lesser of two evils will only guarantee that we continue to have the same problems. Voting based on knowledge will be rough at first but ultimately it will get better. We will need to do it some time amd it's better to get it started sooner than later.

As for zoom boy, I know nothing will change your mind. That is a sad thing because by deciding to fix your mind to your bias you habe rendered both your vote and your opinion worthless. I don't think you are a fool because you make good arguments sometimes. I just think you habe grown too attached to foolish ideas. Anyway, you have no reason to believe me. I was there and experienced things first hand so I know what went on, but thats just me.

Unless I missed it you haven't answered my questions about why you think a 3rd party would be our saviour? In reality we'll end up with another UNC or worse a PNM.

Secondly, corruption like you saw it, isn't anything new in any country. It's nepotism to be exact.

And PNM corruption differs for 2 reasons (1) their party associates already have money either from years or generations of previous corrupt PNM party faithful and (2) they don't use construction to redistribute money. They use methods of (1) renting buildings owned by party faithful via state companies (2) appoint their unqualified persons to top state companies etc.

I worked in a state company for years, under PNM an expat was fired and 3 local white boys with no degree were hired and paid 90k/mo via contract (I have seen these myself). Thier work was secretive, and they worked in a special office outside the main headquarters. Many knew about this, trust me it's very very common knowledge in that state company (not to mention the countless project managers who were paid 200k (yes 200k) a month (but at least three guys were qualified and worked hard).

Yet no one made noise, u know why, because they were white and trinis fraid to make noise against whites.

When PP came into power, they stopped a lot of this, saved the company millions. They embarked on several projects that were much needed and delayed because PNM were too busy just maintaining the old guard.

Yet when PP hired a guy to an executive role. A guy was more qualified than most, more experienced and a top performer. Headlines were made because he happened to be related to Kamla in some pumpkin vine way.

That shows the double standards we have as people. We are far more critical of things UNC does when compared to PNM.

I've had it with idealist people like you because for all your good intentions, you just promote a lazy entitled mindset of complaining and blaming others for why the country can never succeed.

I know a Trini chick who has graduate and postgraduate degrees from Oxford and Cambridge. Worked as a political researcher for the Tories, worked in an international body that assesses rule of law in governments all over the world.

She takes a very unbiased view in politics locally. She has worked for dookeran, Bhoe, Jack and then got fired by the PNM for being a UNC lacky despite her being anything of the sort.

She has studies and stats that show almost every metric of governance improves drastically under UNC Vs PNM.

You may see her on the platform for UNC next election. She is encouraging educated individuals to join UNC and change the party within.

I agree with her approach.

The one thing I agree with you on is that, pressure groups and a more independent media need to take an active role.

After all is said and dono, I dislike a lot about UNC, but as a government they're the best we have and let's be real a 3rd party cannot win an election because PNM till I die voters will almost never change.

PNM is still a strong party and a 3rd party just seeks to take away votes from the UNC resulting in a situation where PNM holds onto power.

[one eye]

Zoom rader read your entire piece only to reply with "What UNC corruption?"

That is very disrespectful to you Slart. Zoom rader does not contribute to anything on this forum besides hate, racism and unintelligible opinions.

[zoom rader]

Slartibartfast

The problem is not the two party system.

The problem is that trinis have no clue what development and nation building is so it doesn't matter who sits in that seat. Nothing is going to get done until the country changes its mindset and puts development at the forefront.

Let's be real now TT occupies some of the lowest rankings in terms of development. Shouldn't our development be based on climbing these rankings. For instance, if our economy is ranked 90 something shouldn't we be aiming to reach 60 something in 5 years and 30 something in 10 years and create policy to reflect this? That by itself will ensure we moving in the right direction. Instead we getting excuses based on "culture" or because we "third world". Just paving roads and making highways not going to make us developed but its going to encourage corruption though.

I am 30 as well.

Again, our opinions are almost the same. I'll jist say that there are some trinis that know better and thanks to the internet that number grows everyday.

My problem is voting for the lesser of two evils will only guarantee that we continue to have the same problems. Voting based on knowledge will be rough at first but ultimately it will get better. We will need to do it some time amd it's better to get it started sooner than later.

As for zoom boy, I know nothing will change your mind. That is a sad thing because by deciding to fix your mind to your bias you habe rendered both your vote and your opinion worthless. I don't think you are a fool because you make good arguments sometimes. I just think you habe grown too attached to foolish ideas. Anyway, you have no reason to believe me. I was there and experienced things first hand so I know what went on, but thats just me.

My mind will change when folk get jail for corruption.

Until then it's just a rumour

[zoom rader]

Zoom rader read your entire piece only to reply with "What UNC corruption?"

That is very disrespectful to you Slart. Zoom rader does not contribute to anything on this forum besides hate, racism and unintelligible opinions.

Can you tell me who was jailed for UNC corruption beside Bas?

I read where Marlene is before the courts , so will wait for the out come of that.

[De Dragon]

Zoom rader read your entire piece only to reply with "What UNC corruption?"

That is very disrespectful to you Slart. Zoom rader does not contribute to anything on this forum besides hate, racism and unintelligible opinions.

Irony really does have one eye.

[Slartibartfast]

Zoom rader read your entire piece only to reply with "What UNC corruption?"

That is very disrespectful to you Slart. Zoom rader does not contribute to anything on this forum besides hate, racism and unintelligible opinions.

Can you tell me who was jailed for UNC corruption beside Bas?

I read where Marlene is before the courts , so will wait for the out come of that.

Lol, Marlene not even in jail though. And she is not the leader of the PNM. That means by your own admission, the PNM is more honest, transparent and has a higher integrity than the UNC.

In a startling twist you have decided to go pro PNM and ANTI-UNC just to stick to your bias.

I guess you think slavery was good, as well as the holocaust because a lot of people didn't get arrested for those either. Are you also in support of child pornographers and peadophiles as long as they stay under the radar?

[zoom rader]

Zoom rader read your entire piece only to reply with "What UNC corruption?"

That is very disrespectful to you Slart. Zoom rader does not contribute to anything on this forum besides hate, racism and unintelligible opinions.

Can you tell me who was jailed for UNC corruption beside Bas?

I read where Marlene is before the courts , so will wait for the out come of that.

Lol, Marlene not even in jail though. And she is not the leader of the PNM. That means by your own admission, the PNM is more honest, transparent and has a higher integrity than the UNC.

In a startling twist you have decided to go pro PNM and ANTI-UNC just to stick to your bias.

I guess you think slavery was good, as well as the holocaust because a lot of people didn't get arrested for those either. Are you also in support of child pornographers and peadophiles as long as they stay under the radar?

Off course I tell ppl to vote PNM and PNM will win elections. It's because we live in stupid country filled with stupid people that vote PNM.

Think about it as to why I say vote PNM.

Child pornographers? You a lil young so you and others may not know of Hans Boos

You need to reseach Hans Boos

http://www.ipsnews.net/1996/02/trinidad ... -business/

[Slartibartfast]

I think you replied to the wrong comment bro. You quoted me but didn't address anything that I said. Care to try again?

[Redman]

lol really lol

[zoom rader]

I think you replied to the wrong comment bro. You quoted me but didn't address anything that I said. Care to try again?

Nope , read it again

[Redress10]

Zoom is the sort of person this country needs to move on from.

Man is a professional troll.

[matr1x]

Hearing pnm supporters here trying to play saint, its hilarious

[zoom rader]

Zoom is the sort of person this country needs to move on from.

Man is a professional troll.

Well prove me wrong nah

The best on tuner have tired and all have failed.