CNG situation in south

[Ted_v2]

well that portable pump down since about 2:30 heard a belt or something was damaged IDK, 2 hours they said to change it.

mon repos have another portable but not connected as yet. CNG line does move tho, call it ah hour from rising star to leaving the pump.

check the maths here. a taxi driver for a 7 seater would burn roughly 220$ a day to make 600$

whereas that same $600 making on 70$ or so. immediate savings of 130$ per day which goes into their pocket..

[De Dragon]

well that portable pump down since about 2:30 heard a belt or something was damaged IDK, 2 hours they said to change it.

mon repos have another portable but not connected as yet. CNG line does move tho, call it ah hour from rising star to leaving the pump.

check the maths here. a taxi driver for a 7 seater would burn roughly 220$ a day to make 600$

whereas that same $600 making on 70$ or so. immediate savings of 130$ per day which goes into their pocket..

I hope that is inclusive of getting the belt from wherever, because two hours is long for a belt change out.

[nemisis]

Mon repos carousel still down the attendants said they waiting on parts that need to be ordered into the country. The portable unitbthey have had there over that last few days they can't use asbtgeybhavent gotten the permission for its use to date.

[sMASH]

one out of two things, either price going up or stations remaining down.



http://www.looptt.com/content/petroleum ... Mo3fuuqV2U

Petroleum Dealers say CNG not viable as shortage reported in South
Loop News Created : 21 October 2019
Energy

The Petroleum Dealers Association (PDATT) is calling on the Minister of Energy & Energy Industries to remove the specific electricity charges associated with dispensing Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) and to provide the 20 cents margin to make the industry viable.

This comes as PDATT said members of the motoring public who use CNG have recently been inconvenienced by its unavailability at stations in South Trinidad.

In a statement issued on Monday night, the Petroleum Association says the current situation is unsustainable.

“CNG Operators simply do not achieve enough volume to pay for the industrial electricity and the employees who are required to dispense the product. National Petroleum Marketing Company Limited and UNIPET have been consistent in providing liquid fuels to all gas stations to ensure that Petroleum Dealers are able to serve the motoring public. Citizens expect that when they need fuel, a gas station will be open for business, stocked with the product they need and staffed by courteous staff or have the appropriate level of technology to satisfy their demand. Petroleum Dealers cannot continue to satisfy these expectations with the current margins and those in the CNG business will have to reconsider their investments. It is difficult for any industry to operate in a price-controlled situation with unsustainable margins.”

The PDATT recalled that CNG was introduced by the then Government in 2011. It also notes that earlier this year, the line Minister said the Government’s current CNG Programme provides $2 billion dollars in funding, designed to cater for the construction of new stations, public education and marketing, provision of mobile CNG Stations, expert and technical support and Radio Frequency Identification Systems. There was further incentive to supply CNG kits free of charge. This was all part of the thrust toward promoting CNG vehicles.

Still, the association says this was not enough as selling this gas comes at a high cost to the retailer.

“A missing component in the model was the unique costs associated with dispensing CNG to the motoring public, a cost entirely borne by CNG Operators. CNG equipment requires Industrial rate of electricity and attracts a demand charge of approximately $10k per month. This charge is non-existent for the supply of liquid fuel. This unfortunate and unfair situation adds insult to the current injury being perpetrated on suppliers of Liquid Fuels who are operating under an uneconomic business model.”

PDATT says for the past four years, petroleum dealers have been in discussion with various Ministers and government officials and the response has been “unencouraging”.

It adds that the situation was exacerbated in 2017 after the government granted a five cents increase while simultaneously increasing the price at the pumps, the Business Levy and Green Fund Levy.

“The impact of these actions was to maintain the industry’s unsustainable price structure. At present, Petroleum Dealers earn on average as low as $2.50 per $100.00 sale at the pumps, from which they are expected to pay Employees, and all other expenses.”

but we already have imburt saying that cng not viable and the way is electric/

the cng ngc ceo had said about two years ago he wanted more people to jump on before they jack the price. since then reall people jump on.

[pugboy]

this is what we been saying all the time

they should double or triple the price so stations can make more money.
a car cng fillup cost is usually $10-12 or so

if it goes to $20-25 I doubt there will be riots

[Redman]

They should remove the subsidy.
Let the market decide.

[sMASH]

They should remove the subsidy.
Let the market decide.

all fuels.

[nemisis]

More attempt to squeeze water from stone

[PariaMan]

Go electric

[TurboSingh12]

Go electric

That only good if you working short distances.

[maj. tom]

It have long distances in Trinidad?
I think he means hybrid plug-in EV, or hybrid petrol+EV.

[adnj]

this is what we been saying all the time

they should double or triple the price so stations can make more money.
a car cng fillup cost is usually $10-12 or so

if it goes to $20-25 I doubt there will be riots

IIRC, the retail markup per liter is 14.5 cents for gasoline and 9.5 cents for diesel. If CNG is in that range, doubling the margin would raise prices about 3%.

[PariaMan]

Go el electric I went from one corner of Trinidad and back and did 250 km

I was dog tired after

Pal in work bought a leaf with a range of 260 km

I waiting for a used tesla 3 with a range of 400 km

In the mean time those taxi should have gone hybrid and halved there gas bill

CNG is heavily subsidised, requires to many trip to the gas station and the more people convert the more problems to fill up

[Ragnor]

CNG isn’t economical I hear. It economical for long distance travel but not short distances? Is this true?

[K74T]

Posted this evening

[wagonrunner]

CNG isn’t economical I hear. It economical for long distance travel but not short distances? Is this true?

it's savings in cost of fuel per km.
the more kilometers done, the greater the savings.

[adnj]

CNG isn’t economical I hear. It economical for long distance travel but not short distances? Is this true?

No, it is not true. A typical CNG tank may only hold the equivalent of about 15 liters of gasoline (or GLE). That's the big oroblem; you fill up and it's as if you only have a quarter tank.

With respect to fuel economy, you will get about the same mileage with one GLE of CNG ($1) as one liter of gasoline ($4.97).

But you will need to fill up four times as often.

[pugboy]

It only became feasible when the fill times improved from the initial 15-20min times years ago
Ideally you need a station in your commute like the flour mills station which folks in the west use

CNG isn’t economical I hear. It economical for long distance travel but not short distances? Is this true?

No, it is not true. A typical CNG tank may only hold the equivalent of about 15 liters of gasoline (or GLE). That's the big oroblem; you fill up and it's as if you only have a quarter tank.

With respect to fuel economy, you will get about the same mileage with one GLE of CNG ($1) as one liter of gasoline ($4.97).

But you will need to fill up four times as often.

[wingnut]

Go el electric I went from one corner of Trinidad and back and did 250 km

I was dog tired after

Pal in work bought a leaf with a range of 260 km

I waiting for a used tesla 3 with a range of 400 km

In the mean time those taxi should have gone hybrid and halved there gas bill

CNG is heavily subsidised, requires to many trip to the gas station and the more people convert the more problems to fill up

Couldn't agree more regarding hybrid and electric. I went from fulling gas every 4 days to once every two weeks when i switched to a hybrid. Why would anyone want to spend more time in gas stations. They dont even hav proper washrooms to use

[PariaMan]

Go el electric I went from one corner of Trinidad and back and did 250 km

I was dog tired after

Pal in work bought a leaf with a range of 260 km

I waiting for a used tesla 3 with a range of 400 km

In the mean time those taxi should have gone hybrid and halved there gas bill

CNG is heavily subsidised, requires to many trip to the gas station and the more people convert the more problems to fill up

Couldn't agree more regarding hybrid and electric. I went from fulling gas every 4 days to once every two weeks when i switched to a hybrid. Why would anyone want to spend more time in gas stations. They dont even hav proper washrooms to use

I will never go cng and have to visit a gas station every other day

What a waste of my time

[adnj]

Go el electric I went from one corner of Trinidad and back and did 250 km

I was dog tired after

Pal in work bought a leaf with a range of 260 km

I waiting for a used tesla 3 with a range of 400 km

In the mean time those taxi should have gone hybrid and halved there gas bill

CNG is heavily subsidised, requires to many trip to the gas station and the more people convert the more problems to fill up

Couldn't agree more regarding hybrid and electric. I went from fulling gas every 4 days to once every two weeks when i switched to a hybrid. Why would anyone want to spend more time in gas stations. They dont even hav proper washrooms to use

I will never go cng and have to visit a gas station every other day

What a waste of my time

Though I doubt that passenger cars will become available because of cost, weight and complexity, there are trucks available with CNG-PHEV (CNG-powered hybrid powertrains with plug-in charging).

[sMASH]

Go el electric I went from one corner of Trinidad and back and did 250 km

I was dog tired after

Pal in work bought a leaf with a range of 260 km

I waiting for a used tesla 3 with a range of 400 km

In the mean time those taxi should have gone hybrid and halved there gas bill

CNG is heavily subsidised, requires to many trip to the gas station and the more people convert the more problems to fill up

Couldn't agree more regarding hybrid and electric. I went from fulling gas every 4 days to once every two weeks when i switched to a hybrid. Why would anyone want to spend more time in gas stations. They dont even hav proper washrooms to use

I will never go cng and have to visit a gas station every other day

What a waste of my time

the price and availability made it viable. now, its not as available(for south people) and the way to make it available may mean making it more expensive, which puts the viability is up in the air. u pay a weight and space penalty, an additional service cost, or repair if a component goes bad.


someone should post how many kwh does it take to charge an ev car, so we could see the cost of that system.

[neilsingh100]

CNG is bad policy incentivizing public to move from one subsidized fuel to another. The market rate for CNG in the US is approximately TT$4/LGE while in Trinidad we charge TT$1/LGE. At some point the government will no longer be able to subsidize CNG since our nat gas is more expensive to produce that US shale gas. Hybrids and electric vehicles are more efficient and use less energy so clearly that is where we should be focusing on.

[vaiostation]

We should note that our electricity is heavily subsidized as well, so any move to full electric vehicles will in turn cause a major demand for this commodity, as well as more natural gas will be needed for t&tec.

We should compare our petrol, cng and electricity at unsubsidized rates to get a more accurate view on the issue and see which one is more viable in the long term.

[pugboy]

We really need figures for electricity consumption for charging a totally electric car at present rates

It may be possible to fudge a figure based on car battery size and assuming charging from say 20% and factor charging losses.
And work out $/km

At the end of the day there is never a free lunch.

[adnj]

We should note that our electricity is heavily subsidized as well, so any move to full electric vehicles will in turn cause a major demand for this commodity, as well as more natural gas will be needed for t&tec.

We should compare our petrol, cng and electricity at unsubsidized rates to get a more accurate view on the issue and see which one is more viable in the long term.

I have no idea what the unsubsidized costs are in Trinidad in particular but in general the cost for either electric or CNG is about half of the cost for gasoline.

You should expect about 22kwh/100 km for a PEV, 9 LGE/100 km for CNG and 9 l/100 km for gasoline.

Current subsidized costs are 37¢/kwh or
$8.14/100 km for electric,
$44.73/100 km for Super,
$9.00/100 km for CNG

[PariaMan]

We should note that our electricity is heavily subsidized as well, so any move to full electric vehicles will in turn cause a major demand for this commodity, as well as more natural gas will be needed for t&tec.

We should compare our petrol, cng and electricity at unsubsidized rates to get a more accurate view on the issue and see which one is more viable in the long term.

I have no idea what the unsubsidized costs are in Trinidad in particular but in general the cost for either electric or CNG is about half of the cost for gasoline.

You should expect about 22kwh/100 km for a PEV, 9 LGE/100 km for CNG and 9 l/100 km for gasoline.

Current subsidized costs are 37¢/kwh or
$8.14/100 km for electric,
$44.73/100 km for Super,
$9.00/100 km for CNG

Thing is we use existing infrastructure for electricity, people can charge in the night when demand is low and I understand there is an oversupply of electricity right now

Elon order me a tesla 3

[pugboy]

We don’t have rates which vary with time of day though.

Oversupply is a real waste because they need to make enough for the daily peaks but it can be throttled back at the off peak time just like that,

[pugboy]

Diesel for a hilux is around $33/100km

We should note that our electricity is heavily subsidized as well, so any move to full electric vehicles will in turn cause a major demand for this commodity, as well as more natural gas will be needed for t&tec.

We should compare our petrol, cng and electricity at unsubsidized rates to get a more accurate view on the issue and see which one is more viable in the long term.

I have no idea what the unsubsidized costs are in Trinidad in particular but in general the cost for either electric or CNG is about half of the cost for gasoline.

You should expect about 22kwh/100 km for a PEV, 9 LGE/100 km for CNG and 9 l/100 km for gasoline.

Current subsidized costs are 37¢/kwh or
$8.14/100 km for electric,
$44.73/100 km for Super,
$9.00/100 km for CNG

[rebound]

Hope we get an authorized Tesla dealer here soon...

We should note that our electricity is heavily subsidized as well, so any move to full electric vehicles will in turn cause a major demand for this commodity, as well as more natural gas will be needed for t&tec.

We should compare our petrol, cng and electricity at unsubsidized rates to get a more accurate view on the issue and see which one is more viable in the long term.

I have no idea what the unsubsidized costs are in Trinidad in particular but in general the cost for either electric or CNG is about half of the cost for gasoline.

You should expect about 22kwh/100 km for a PEV, 9 LGE/100 km for CNG and 9 l/100 km for gasoline.

Current subsidized costs are 37¢/kwh or
$8.14/100 km for electric,
$44.73/100 km for Super,
$9.00/100 km for CNG

Thing is we use existing infrastructure for electricity, people can charge in the night when demand is low and I understand there is an oversupply of electricity right now

Elon order me a tesla 3