Medicine in Trinidad

[Kewell35]

Now that is the type of response that we suppose to get from an educated person. This is how discussions occur and solutions are found.

You seem to know your stuff. One thing you need to be mindful of is that it all comes down to you. It doesn't matter if you graduated from UWI or Harvard, you can choose to become world class if you want to. Granted you may need a more challenging environment to push yourself but that again comes down to what you are seeking. If it's the best you seek, push and go for it. Let nothing stop you.

True man. Also, I absolutely do agree it comes down to me and the effort I make in where I want to reach in life (as it does for anyone else really) but it's only this month that I saw the Ministry sending out information on attaining scholarships in specializing abroad so I don't know if anyone knew more about it, hence the question about being stuck here or whatever it is I put that probably came off as derogatory . Because, honestly, in my opinion, the teaching in terms of specializing in the UK and the US is far superior to the local programme they recently instituted (some may take offense but whatever yes).

[Kewell35]

My brother went Mona and is now a top neurosurgeon. I have a nephew and niece in UWI doing med. I don't know if the problem with the low pass rate has more to do with the attitude of the students when they are living "home " as compared to when they study abroad, compare a Trini studying in Jamaica with a Jamaican studying in Trinidad,and then a Jamaican studying in Jamaica with a Trini studying in Trinidad. The discipline is just not there when you are on your home ground . Too much distractions.

I personally believe that our UWI has a good track record because if you watch the ones that do pass, they are the ones that are generally more dedicated. I believe that results are as good as the effort you put into something.

Medicine(and law) are good professions ,but the country is saturated with them so unless you specialize and are really good ,getting paid for all those years of hard work becomes another problem. If I were a doctor I would go into the business aspect of it ,like opening a private hospital or MRI, CAT, or even Dialysis facility

BTW when I said free education ,I meant gov't paid so yeah , it's really not free.

Seriously? Is he working in Jamaica as a neurosurgeon or Trinidad? I probably know who it is then.

Also, the low pass rate is for overall students in their home country. The one in Trinidad is very low compared to the rest. Last year, they were the bottom ranked out of all in terms of pass rate IIRC. What it is comparing is Trinidadian students' performance in the regionally set Final MBBS exams in Trinidad vs Jamaican students' performance in the same exact exam. So it is comparing home students for all campuses. So I don't know if it is really an attitude problem. I visited Mona, saw the facilities and spoke to the faculty as well as St Augustine. Obviously my impression would be limited but I think there is a different mentality in Mona, more emphasis towards teaching and learning pure medicine as compared to memorization in Trinidad, more emphasis on patient-doctor relationship and clinical skills (Jamaica as 3 years of Clinical Sciences while Trinidad as 1.5 years), more faculty members, more enthusiasm, more subsidized by the government in terms of equipment, professors, teachers, etc. For example, a pretty unknown laparoscopic surgeon at Mona for the past couple years recently transferred to Trinidad to teach and he is right now probably the 'best' lecturer in General Surgery and is in the running for Head of Department when the current head leaves.

I believe the recent trend in the poor performance of UWI interns is foreboding and worrisome. I think major changes need to be made and with the recent departure of the Dean Ramsewak, I think good things will happen in the future. There has been a lot of talk about corruption and bribery in the this faculty and it is well known in the Caribbean. There has been a lot of talk that in the recent Obstetric and Gynecology exams in 2014 that more than 50% of the students fails and the Dean had to illegally remark everyone so only a few passed. Ofcourse that is only hearsay but well founded IMO. Not to mention most of the clerkship exams in Trinidad...most students already have them home anyway.

IMO, that is a great idea for the business aspect of it as well. But it needs a lot of capital first off to invest and with the salary that doctors make now here, it would take a long time to do this and a lot of hard work and dedication and years sacrificing (after those already done to get the MBBS).

[racedriverpro]

Good info. Finally. Just to add. Anywhere that u go there will be ills in current systems. I know for a fact that op has a point with first post. There is alot of nepotism within the administration of uwi med. I can't say definitely whether the low pass rate is directly related to this. Point is nothing is perfect, it's what u take and make of what is in front of you.

Correct me if I am wrong. Do you not have the option of transferring to another University/campus if u feel that u are not being challenged at uwi?

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[racedriverpro]

Doctors can be awarded full scholarships to study abroad depending on the area of speciality. Full scholarship means that u receive full or partial salary and all other expenses paid wrt studies. Of course ur services upon completion will have to be bonded by the government of tt if under their employ.

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[Redress10]

OP....You'll be fine...You are very informed and going into it with an open eye and level head.

I really didn't want to touch on the corruption that is alleged to occur in Trinidad..I think it is well documented and our health system today demonstrates this. I don't think this occurs in medicine alone as we have assaulted all of our institutions over the decades. That's the scary thing about standards, they must be maintained or else all fails. If you really care about learning overseas then try and get a scholarship but remember that your services will be required in Trinidad after. We need more people like you. People concerned about high standards and willing to maintain them. I think I understand what you meant by prestige, your weren't talking about the title but the perceived high standards.

Did you know that you can drive in the UK with a Bajan license. No way in hell is a driving license from Trinidad and Tobago accepted though.

[neexis]

OP.. with all the info you already have about Mt Hope and inner workings of UWI St Augustine, why are you even asking about it? It seems that you have enough information to make a decision.

As for post-UWI MBBS opportunities, you have options.
Some go to the UK and others to the US. There are relevant entrance exams depending on which way you go: USMLE,etc.

I've known guys starting US residencies as soon as 2-3 years after graduation. Not sure how many will actually return to Trinidad. So you do have the option of getting out and staying out.

If you in it for yourself no problem, but if you want to push for some kind of change in a system that's broken, you might find a different level of prestige in that.

[Cantmis]

Do all doctors go to heaven ?

[worksux101]

wow the amount of misinformation and nonsense spewed in this thread is unbelievable...no wonder the public frowns on medical doctors in trinidad...

OP what year are u in? I gona ask in every class i have there now 'who is kewell35'

[jm3]

running out of popcorn here

[DVSTT]

wow the amount of misinformation and nonsense spewed in this thread is unbelievable...no wonder the public frowns on medical doctors in trinidad...

OP what year are u in? I gona ask in every class i have there now 'who is kewell35'

What years do you lecture?

[Kewell35]

wow the amount of misinformation and nonsense spewed in this thread is unbelievable...no wonder the public frowns on medical doctors in trinidad...

OP what year are u in? I gona ask in every class i have there now 'who is kewell35'

Other than the trolling, what misinformation and nonsense do you have to contest?

[Kewell35]

OP.. with all the info you already have about Mt Hope and inner workings of UWI St Augustine, why are you even asking about it? It seems that you have enough information to make a decision.

As for post-UWI MBBS opportunities, you have options.
Some go to the UK and others to the US. There are relevant entrance exams depending on which way you go: USMLE,etc.

I've known guys starting US residencies as soon as 2-3 years after graduation. Not sure how many will actually return to Trinidad. So you do have the option of getting out and staying out.

If you in it for yourself no problem, but if you want to push for some kind of change in a system that's broken, you might find a different level of prestige in that.

Yep. I know about the USMLE and the UK is pretty hard.

You know the guys who got in via the USMLE good? You know what kinda scores they got?

[Kewell35]

OP....You'll be fine...You are very informed and going into it with an open eye and level head.

I really didn't want to touch on the corruption that is alleged to occur in Trinidad..I think it is well documented and our health system today demonstrates this. I don't think this occurs in medicine alone as we have assaulted all of our institutions over the decades. That's the scary thing about standards, they must be maintained or else all fails. If you really care about learning overseas then try and get a scholarship but remember that your services will be required in Trinidad after. We need more people like you. People concerned about high standards and willing to maintain them. I think I understand what you meant by prestige, your weren't talking about the title but the perceived high standards.

Did you know that you can drive in the UK with a Bajan license. No way in hell is a driving license from Trinidad and Tobago accepted though.

Yep the thing with the scholarship though is that they didn't make it clear what criteria they use to select people (or I probably didn't search adequately) and somehow I think there's a lot of underhand stuff in it. Was just wondering if anyone had more info on it...because they're giving you an opportunity to get through and specialize without having to write the board exams (USMLE and PLABS).

[Kewell35]

Good info. Finally. Just to add. Anywhere that u go there will be ills in current systems. I know for a fact that op has a point with first post. There is alot of nepotism within the administration of uwi med. I can't say definitely whether the low pass rate is directly related to this. Point is nothing is perfect, it's what u take and make of what is in front of you.

Correct me if I am wrong. Do you not have the option of transferring to another University/campus if u feel that u are not being challenged at uwi?

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk

The level of nepotism, corruption and the likes are truly sickening in FMS UWI. The think, a senior lecturer whose daughter failed a year, made a new rule specifically for that year so that she had a repeat exam 2 weeks later so that she can pass it and get through into clinical years, while the other years, had to repeat 6 months later or possibly a year later. The rule was only for that year.

Wholesale changes are expected later this year in the administrative side of it so I'm thinking the future would look more positive.

You are allowed to transfer to any UWI Campus Faculty of Medical Sciecnes so you can transfer to Mona if you would like. As for other medical schools...I'm not sure, quite possibly you can transfer to an offshore school (like SGU/Ross) but a US school would be near impossible.

[racedriverpro]

^^ I believe it's possible to transfer to sgu at least. Sgu are affiliated with US and UK in terms of internship...

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[j.o.e]

Nobody didn't mention degrees is not the path to meow?

[neexis]

I believe the recent trend in the poor performance of UWI interns is foreboding and worrisome

How are you assessing the performance of UWI interns? By interns I mean graduates of the MBBS program.

[DVSTT]

OP came here to tarnish the name of every mt hope graduate even though he himself never set foot on the campus as a student.

[dougla_boy]

u should meet my brethren who is a Dr...he is an muffler bearing...and u would get vex....this would amuse me greatly

[worksux101]

u should meet my brethren who is a Dr...he is an muffler bearing...and u would get vex....this would amuse me greatly

How this sounding like pie so lol

[roop999]

I have been reading through this thread and well, shall I say that the opinions expressed about the UWI MBBS program in Trinidad and the quality of drs graduated from same are totally erroneous. This Kewell35 guy is really being misled. Or may very well be the fox and who's now evaluating grapes he never tasted. Firstly ONLY the students with the best results get into UWI St Augustine. All my colleagues who didnt get straight A's guess where they went ???Mona and who had more money Ireland!! Because you get in there with lower grades - fact! Also Mona has a long tradition of specialty programs and has a great faculty of eminent professors. But there men of serious repute in Trinidad. Prof Butler, Narinesingh , Ramsewak, Bartholomew, Richards, Teelucksingh and Bassaw et al teaching you you can hardly complain about expertise and quality. We do not have long traditions of good specialty training here, but that reputation comes with time and ability of faculties to add to existing bodies of knowledge through research. OHH I forgot to call the Professor who is probably the most prominent in his field in the Caribbean Prof Hutchinson - talk about brilliant and just normal humble human being. Every one who goes through his rotation wants to be a Psychiatrist. Lastly, check your stats on failure rate and see how many of the students were actually trini as opposed to foreigners. They have never been able to compete for top spots in the UWI St Augustine MBBS program.

[worksux101]

Nice post...but it'll proly fall on deaf ears here hence i and i'm sure a few others didnt bother...
Just to add...there are students that leave foreign universities to return for their clinical years here...and the interns that graduate locally are always significantly better practically than those from SGU etc...you wont know this until you experience it...the poor healthcare system may have changed some after, but it has little to do with UWI.
That said, i graduated 5 yrs ago and there has been a marked drop in quality of some graduates since, which is where the uproar of extending internship came about.

[Kewell35]

I have been reading through this thread and well, shall I say that the opinions expressed about the UWI MBBS program in Trinidad and the quality of drs graduated from same are totally erroneous. This Kewell35 guy is really being misled. Or may very well be the fox and who's now evaluating grapes he never tasted. Firstly ONLY the students with the best results get into UWI St Augustine. All my colleagues who didnt get straight A's guess where they went ???Mona and who had more money Ireland!! Because you get in there with lower grades - fact! Also Mona has a long tradition of specialty programs and has a great faculty of eminent professors. But there men of serious repute in Trinidad. Prof Butler, Narinesingh , Ramsewak, Bartholomew, Richards, Teelucksingh and Bassaw et al teaching you you can hardly complain about expertise and quality. We do not have long traditions of good specialty training here, but that reputation comes with time and ability of faculties to add to existing bodies of knowledge through research. OHH I forgot to call the Professor who is probably the most prominent in his field in the Caribbean Prof Hutchinson - talk about brilliant and just normal humble human being. Every one who goes through his rotation wants to be a Psychiatrist. Lastly, check your stats on failure rate and see how many of the students were actually trini as opposed to foreigners. They have never been able to compete for top spots in the UWI St Augustine MBBS program.

This is coming from an intern and house officer.

1. ONLY the students with the best results get in Mt Hope. I already stated this earlier. BUT UWI St. Augustine has had the lowest pass rate out of all the graduates in ALL UWI Campuses HISTORICALLY. The Head of Medicine, Prof Hutchinson admitted this to us last year. (Though there may be a new head of medicine now). The students are obviously smart to get in but because of the inferior quality of teaching (especially in recent times), there is such a low pass rate.

2. Mona has a much lower criteria for admitting into FMS. Cavehill as well. But you know what the unfortunate thing is? WE GET GATE. THE LECTURERS ARE UNDERPAID AND THE FACULTY IS UNDERSTAFFED. TEELUCKSINGH DOES NOT EVEN MAKE THE BI-WEEKLY CLASSES HE HAS IN YEAR 4 (IN CLINIC). THE TEACHING IS FAR INFERIOR. There was a discussion at recent meeting involving all Board of Examiners about how poorly Trinidad is doing.


3. This is my opinion now. Ramsewak SHOULD NOT be included in those list of eminent men. Ramsewak's character is questionable as well as qualifications. The man BRIBED the minister to become the Dean. The man continually takes in foreign students who have to pay foreign fees and make them reach until YEAR 5 to fail them the 4 chances they have and kick them out. When these foreign students query their marks, they are never shown them (and these students are some of the smartest men I know). The man is the epitomy of EVIL. Today I talked to a U.S Citizen who he did this to. He failed him out after the man passed the OSCE and failed his written (Which is - if you are in Year 5- would know it is utterly ridiculous). ALSO, THE WRITTEN PAPERS IN ALL THESE EXAMS ARE REPEATS. ALOT OF THE MEDICINE PAPER REPEATS ALMOST EVERY YEAR. IT'S ALSO GIVEN TO YOU IN CLERKSHIP EXAMS.

Anyway, there's a new dean July 1st so hopefully things get better.

4. THE ONLY ONE WHO IS WORLD CLASS IS PROF BUTLER and possibly Naraynsingh. The man actually taught Steve Boodram and Naraynsingh! But he is old and is too retire soon/if not already.

5. I know Bassaw very well and he's a amazingly dedicated man, and IMO should have gotten the position of Dean instead of Ramsewak though there's a perpetual war between them.

Even though these lecturers may be 'eminent in their fields etc.' - this does not necessarily equate to teaching that is of high quality. There's about 35-40 people in a group now in clinical years. In 2010, there was about 20 people in a group. How is the teaching going to be shared up now equally so everyone turns out to be a quality doctor? How is everyone going to get their 5+ deliveries in Obstetrics & Gynecology (with all the fighting that goes down)? Since Mary Singh Bhola left, Jaggat left, and so many more, there's only Bassaw as really the only recognized senior lecturer in MHWH. Back a couple years ago there was Bassaw, Mary Singh, Jaggat, Sirjusingh, (the white in POS now - I forgot his name) and more teaching. Look at that.

6. Some say the DM teaching programme is highly corrupt (but it depends on the specialty) ONLY if you have connections will you make it or you really kiss ass. I can give you a million stories about it.

7. I know Prof Hutchinson VERY WELL. Prof Hutchinson is a remarkable human being is an absolute role model (the man helped me get through so much tough times in med school) but as for being the most prominent in his field (You are referring to Psychiatry or Internal Medicine?) This is very debatable. Do you know much of Mona's faculty members?

8. I know my statistics and the information is offically released to all campuses. There's ALOT more failures in UWI St Augustine than the other campuses though there is almost the same amount of intake of foreigners.

9. The Foreigners are top students as well. UWI St. Augustine continually fails them over and over to collect more money from them so they can cover the cost of GATE (or so they can pocket the money) . Corruption runs amok in this Faculty.

[Kewell35]

Nice post...but it'll proly fall on deaf ears here hence i and i'm sure a few others didnt bother...
Just to add...there are students that leave foreign universities to return for their clinical years here...and the interns that graduate locally are always significantly better practically than those from SGU etc...you wont know this until you experience it...the poor healthcare system may have changed some after, but it has little to do with UWI.
That said, i graduated 5 yrs ago and there has been a marked drop in quality of some graduates since, which is where the uproar of extending internship came about.

I agree. The interns from SGU are always lost (no offense), especially the ones from this year.

I also think the internship should be extended but there is talk that the new interns are going to be seriously evaluated and would face more severe repercussions than before.

[Kewell35]

OP came here to tarnish the name of every mt hope graduate even though he himself never set foot on the campus as a student.

Actually dude the posts with all the information came from someone who graduated from Mt Hope.

[Lance]

It's a fallacy to assume that Mt. Hope has a lower completion rate than Mona because of teaching inferiority.

It could very well be the opposite. The teaching, testing and examination system could just be less rigid in Mona and students are easier able to pass through the system.

Or does Mona have the Midas touch? The ability to convert comparably inferior students into better graduates?

[pj15]

Nice post...but it'll proly fall on deaf ears here hence i and i'm sure a few others didnt bother...
Just to add...there are students that leave foreign universities to return for their clinical years here...and the interns that graduate locally are always significantly better practically than those from SGU etc...you wont know this until you experience it...the poor healthcare system may have changed some after, but it has little to do with UWI.
That said, i graduated 5 yrs ago and there has been a marked drop in quality of some graduates since, which is where the uproar of extending internship came about.

I agree. The interns from SGU are always lost (no offense), especially the ones from this year.

I also think the internship should be extended but there is talk that the new interns are going to be seriously evaluated and would face more severe repercussions than before.

What exactly do you mean by clueless? They lack clinical competence? Poor fund of medical knowledge??..or is it unfamiliarity with the system?? .what exactly??

[dougla_boy]

u should meet my brethren who is a Dr...he is an muffler bearing...and u would get vex....this would amuse me greatly

How this sounding like pie so lol

strong indian that drives ah benz? then yeah..it could be him...

[Kewell35]

Nice post...but it'll proly fall on deaf ears here hence i and i'm sure a few others didnt bother...
Just to add...there are students that leave foreign universities to return for their clinical years here...and the interns that graduate locally are always significantly better practically than those from SGU etc...you wont know this until you experience it...the poor healthcare system may have changed some after, but it has little to do with UWI.
That said, i graduated 5 yrs ago and there has been a marked drop in quality of some graduates since, which is where the uproar of extending internship came about.

I agree. The interns from SGU are always lost (no offense), especially the ones from this year.

I also think the internship should be extended but there is talk that the new interns are going to be seriously evaluated and would face more severe repercussions than before.

What exactly do you mean by clueless? They lack clinical competence? Poor fund of medical knowledge??..or is it unfamiliarity with the system?? .what exactly??

I never said clueless. I said they look lost. IMO, Most likely because they don't know the system in Trinidad because they usually get their clinical experience in the UK or the US but other doctors say other reasons. One of them didn't even know what Gravidity and Parity was when presenting a history in O+G.

[Kewell35]

It's a fallacy to assume that Mt. Hope has a lower completion rate than Mona because of teaching inferiority.

It could very well be the opposite. The teaching, testing and examination system could just be less rigid in Mona and students are easier able to pass through the system.

Or does Mona have the Midas touch? The ability to convert comparably inferior students into better graduates?

Well if you say so.

The teaching, testing and examination system is much more rigorous in Mona. The exams are way harder (esp Surgery OSCE). Many students who fail finals in Mona go to Trinidad to pass.

Mona doesn't have the midas touch. It's the first UWI campus, a much older school with better teaching and facilities so you're getting a better education.

They do not convert inferior students. They make students into good doctors IMO. Their system is more organized and the teaching is better.