CREEPERS

[In 2 Deep]

ooh damit its all over now look wat my avatar turn 2........

[Cunupia_soundz]

ey u runnin d apx jed?? u in sigle 15?

[In 2 Deep]

^^^^ just now it will be double 15"

[MonsterPower]

so this cp system was recommended by myself and a few other competitors in the past both to matthew and streetwise and nobody adopted it .. what make u think it will change now??

those were the reason i tried to stay away from those types of shows.. no real way to tell who louder unless u use the meter .. and none of them internationally sanctioned.. i would liek to knwo my efforts at installing will be up to par to some systems internationally ..right now pple just contented with being the "loudest in trini"

too much to go look for it but i remembered we had proposed a 20-20-40 styled points system where u get 20 pts for install ,20 for meter and 40 for crowd .. that way if u walked with a crowd and ur system was only mids then u'd score less.
then iasca started bass boxing

we also proposed that trained judges go as well as the meter with respect to the RTA to see who has the whole sound spectrum and sounded better both on the meter and judged with some input from the crowd.
then db drag created bass race and psyclone

unless mk starts to implement certain guidlines at his shows i dont think the pple who really interested in the sport will compete.. heck alot of pple in those shows dont even read the rules in iasca and db drag and pull up in a show with 2 million speakers and when they get classed higher than they should they vex!...

[DJ Q]

heck alot of pple in those shows dont even read the rules in iasca and db drag and pull up in a show with 2 million speakers and when they get classed higher than they should they vex!...

yeah and it's so easy to get classed higher too

[casper]

Monster Power....as i told u last night....the issue with a better judging method is being sorted out....at least it will be better than somebody just standing in front ure car and saying..."yea...dis car louder"....

after each category people does ask me how come they lossed...and what thery were judged upon.....because of the format before....i really had no answer to give them....but now i will

here is the idea we came up with.....4 judges....each with their own score sheet.....

5 pts for safety of install
5 pts for mids
5 pts for bassline
5 pts for overall balance

lets say for example u compete Monster Power....(safety of install portion alone we dealin with now eh)....lets say u get 5 pts from judge 1....4 pts from judge 2...4 pts from judge 3....and 3 pts from judge 4....then ure calculated average score for safety of install will be (5+4+4+3=16/4=4) 4pts (average score for safety of install)

i WOULD have liked the help from some of the IASCA judges on this but the 2 of them that i asked so far kinda gave me a no for an answer....so i guess the MK officials which include MK, Ryan, an outside judge and myself will have to do this by ourselves....

we have no other choice unless someone qualified would like to step up and take the responsibility....i'll be more than happy to give up my judge spot to anyone who is qualified to make better decisions than myself....cuz i aint no professionally trained judge....i have very minimal training to carry that kinda responsibility...BUT...i DO have the ideas....ideas that i haven't seen other promoters implement in their gallery categories as yet...so we gonna try it out 1st

at least we'll will bring a standard of judging to MK shows....hopefully others will adapt the scoring technique too....i'd like to see competitors being judged a lil fairer than they currently are at other shows....

i won't be judging our crew vehicles at MK shows neither....every other vehicle i'll grab the sheet for.....but NONE of the CrEePeRs cars....its a personal choice....

[MK_Promotions]

That is true casper...

THE MK FAMILY plans to use this criteria in the NATIONAL FINALS on OCTOBER 05th...

so at least people can have an idea of what scores they made and where the judges believed that they went wrong... or need improvement...

As Casper said, i am also willing to give up my spot for any qualified persons who is willing to give us that fair judging...

so come on the 5th October and check it out... and lets get your feedback

is with your feedback that we can only make things better for ALL COMPETITORS..

MK

[MonsterPower]

so casper why not get iasca trained or some sort of formal international training

those guys u prolly asked do have a personal life and did take the time and money to become certified judges .. why not invest in the time to train alongside them

just talking will not solve some of the issues

as well as why not seek to introduce the meter into the shows.. yes it may be long and tedious but it will eleminate some of the riff raff from the shows.. i knwo for a fact once u have money u can put in 2 speakers and come to a show .. lets show the pple that unless their system not up to par dont bother to come.. money is not the bottom line .. it should contribute but not let the sport suffer for it

again casper with the judges u called u will be going in circles .. just u moving from one set of judges to another.. let me ask .using u as an example. what makes u qualified to be a judge? see where i am coming from .. i think u guys need to invest in 2 pple and send them up to be trained

mk is in the right position as a promoter but at the end of the day all they loook at is profits and what brings crowds to a show ... and at what expense? speak to the older heads and see.. i have been to older shows zackx ,old iasca and others and now these presant day shows.. i have seen them evolve into what it is today and having been in it i can say what i think it should be ..

let me say this again .. qualified judges doh mean iasca judges alone eh .. but thing is iasca has sound quality which means they can tell the difference in music .. only thing is they wont subject themselves to that sort of punishment ..

look i fedup type .. as i said i am willing to help u knwo my # any help i can give i will

[Leffy]

The judging Scheme sounds like a good idea but we would see if it works in the arena and if everybody is satisfied with the outcome or desicions maid by the judges.

[nigel1977]

What I don't get, and I discussed this with cas, is the fact that, crowd pleaser competition judging will always be a source of problems if you rely on personal opinions to evaluate the quality/loudness of a system.

There IS a fair/unbiased measurement system. Its called Bass Boxing.

Im not selling IASCA deliberately. But, you guys are trying to quantify the quality of systems using equipment that by nature of their design, cannot accurately recreate the media they attempt to.

How do you quantify the midrange of a cp system using the 1-5. Is a 5 very loud? Or is a 5 indicative of a midrange response that is rich in sound? And worse yet, you're asking the crowd, of which you would need to explain to them what a 5 sounds like?

One of the reasons you may recieve less than desired response from an IASCA judge, is prolly because they already have a format that works. You CANT have a crowd pleaser event, and not have the crowd pleased or involved in the judging/evaluation process. What then would their involvement be?

Embrace the bass boxing programme, modify it, enhance it, call it superbestestloudcarsomething or whatever. Somehow, get a certified/calibrated meter involved, to eliminate any chance of "biasness".

Just my 2c.

[DJ Q]

call it superbestestloudcarsomething

lol


I guess the aim of "crowd pleaser" is to see how well your system will impress the untrained ear

[nervewrecker]

call it superbestestloudcarsomething

lol


I guess the aim of "crowd pleaser" is to see how well your system will impress the untrained ear

thas the key word there....

& how well do they hear after they half deaf from standing in front the dj system & wining on a bamscee & drinking dey rum.

[xeon]

finally the perfect way to determine a winner!

[nervewrecker]

i donno what you guys might hink of this but I went to the car show that team wise men held @ lalls in dbe awhile back.
judging went like this:

3 thropies for each category

2 for crowd pleaser normal style, 1st & second place

1 for judged, 1st place only, according to overall install, quaility etc. I personally saw for the single 12' category the car that was not the loudest got the judged thropy, he had no distortion & sounded very clean, nice bassline with broad freq response in comparison to ole noise from the rest of cars with enclosures tuned high.
things went fairly well.

we can hav 2 throphies for judges & one for cp.

other cars were not allowed to play music while the cars in the ring were playing (automatic disqualification), dj was not constantly blasting, crowd was seperated from the dj system, cars were blocked off in the ring (no member from the crowd was allowed inside, 2 persons per car), also no tracks with obscenities were allowed to be played.

all mids had to be in vehicle.

[Chiney]

so....

with all being said..

any outcome of this convo?? apart from what MK said?

[casper]

^^^slacker...that format u talkin about is nothing new....thats EXACTLY how wwe do it for dem MK shows as well....

people are getting confused as to how we planning on judging gallary categories on a point system that wont involves crowd.....they getting confused....this judge method that we plan on implementing has NOTHING to do with the winner of the crowd pleaser category......

there is a difference....in a gallery category such as "loudest single 15" or whatever the promoter decides to call it....there are seperate trophies giving for those that get the most crowd response and those that sounding good.....MOST of the time....the loud cars get the most cheers and either come 1st,2nd,3rd in the CROWD PLEASER segment....but....in the same category....while the mic man is asking the crowd to cheer for the cars....the officials that were walkin around to each car while they were playing before....discusses amongst themselves and comes up with an agreement on who out of the cars that played sounded the best....not necessarily the loudest...but the best as in not distorting, most balanced etc....

its there that we want to implement this scoring system.....that judging part has NOTHING to do with the crowd....the crowd already picked who they routed for to take 1st, 2nd and 3rd in Crowd Pleaser....this part i talkin about is the next part of the category ...the judged part....that determines who was sounding the best despite who brought the biggest crowd...

sometimes the car that wins the judged part doesnt place AT ALL in the crowd pleaser part....an example is Ghost Rider....it had a show that he placed neither 1st, 2nd nor 3rd in crowd response....but....his system sounded the best so he got 1st place judge....

i hope u all understand now what i'm trying to say by judged trophy has nothing to do with the Crowd pleaser trophies....

a Gallery install is NOT a Crowd Pleaser install...Crowd Pleaser is a category in dem shows nowadays....it is not a genre of car audio...Gallery is classed as a genre in car audio amongst SPL and SQ.....

i dont know how else to explain it....lol...probably next I.C.E meeting i'll explain it in words cuz trying to explain it in written form kinda hard....hope i made it a little clearer though

[videsht]

ok let me simplify how trophies are awarded for MK show

1st, 2nd, and 3rd for crowd pleaser

and

1st for judged based in who the judges find sounded the best

so basically even if u didnt hav a crowd and u system waz de best in de catergory u still get someting, now for MK show he also awards hamper for vehicles dat sounded good and didnt place in judged or crowd pleaser

now the points system casper iz talkin about iz goin to be used for the judged aspect of the catergory so ppl would know y a competitior won instead of sayin the judge thief

[MonsterPower]

yet still to be louder u add more speakers.... dont work liek that

some vehicles still sound like sheit .. and still the judges may tend to agree because they knwo the person or they prefer some installer over others.. biasness will still prevail ..

all i am saying is that there are more than one meter avaiable that can meter the full scale of the sound spectrum showing which frequencies are presant than others..

i havent taken part in a mk show in a few yrs but i still believe there is a high level of biasness so even if the crowd doh liek u and the judges like u u get a trophy ...

think of how a regular joe with no friends and no name in the industry can come and win.. that is why other competitions have RULES!!

[ShaKarz]

dis thin is rel drama boi..................................................

car show is no fun anymore...........................

[Chiney]

yeh...cuz the talk goin back and forth....

mk shouldnt be compared to iasca anyways...

mk in local and fun..

iasca is international and taken extremely serious..... when ppl dont do to great there.... they take it like they jus lost dey gyal to another man...

MK is more or less trini-style and real madness, yet.... the competition can go on

[MK_Promotions]

i havent taken part in a mk show in a few yrs but i still believe there is a high level of biasness so even if the crowd doh liek u and the judges like u u get a trophy ...

you sure you ever been to an MK show?

for 2008 EVERY competitor that enters either attains a trophy or a hamper, and mind you the hamper is worth over $400.00

Since 2007 EVERY MK event has IASCA sanctioned competitions, where IASCA officials bring their IASCA meter and do it IASCA style....

so there are always options in an MK event, either you enter one of the IASCA sanctioned competitions, or you enter the MK crowd pleaser competitions...

EITHER WAY IS FUN YUH GONNA HAVE ! ! ! !

ATTEND AN MK SHOW SOON....... YOU WILL SEE WHAT I AM SPEAKING ABOUT ! ! ! !



MK

[- Rovin's car audio -]

i fully understand what MonsterPower, is saying & he is totally right but this trinidad & trinis like they own thing even though some of it not making much sense if going by rules set by certain organizations , everything for us is a wine & a fete with loud music so thats how CP came to be ....i doubt they can do much to improve d standard of how a judge selects d winner or by how much ppl u have in d crowd to bray 4u

like said above if some body wants to participate in d irregular method of CP & or judge (& feel they really accomplish anything) : let them go right ahead ....dont vex with anybody just wish them well

....for those who want a unbiased meter to be d judge then fall into d iasca section of a MK show ...

[boom]

everything for us is a wine & a fete with loud music so thats how CP came to be

Which is exactly why there was a HUGE issue concerning the min.of sport reguarding carshows as "fetes" and I believe banning it from being held in national stadiums..

-Roach-, MP refers back to either 2005 or 2006 when he competed with his mini in single 15''..One of his subs from that day is rumoured to have carried on in a certain almera which if I remember correctly held onto the 1 15'' title for quite a while..

[videsht]

^^^^until a certain sunny gimme ah lil run

MP competed in Car Expo Mania 2006 @ Center of excellence and came first in CP and judged(i think)

now remember competitors might not hav de "loudest" vehicle in there category but if they soundin de best they will win judged, but what MK iz tryin to establish iz a criteria on how a car should be "judged" so ppl cant say dey ent know how so and so win or the judge thief for he partner

and also i agree with MP on the use of a meter as u can compare ur vehicle to other vehicles internationally, but at the same time i dont wanna see CP go cause it iz a "trini ting" in which i tend to hav alot of fun in

now what could be done iz an elimination round where cars are put under de meter (as they register) to see wa scores they make and de top 5 cars make it to de final round which would be the normal ting, so no matter if u walk wit ur crowd u hadda make de numbers to qualify now this would also help out the promotors with time as there wont be 10+ cars in certain catergories

[boom]

MP competed in Car Expo Mania 2006 @ Center of excellence and came first in CP and judged(i think)

Back when said sunny had toy cars...

IMO we should keep the CP aspect and make cars do stuff similar to drive-by, where systems are blasted whislt driving by a meter.. And we should have unbaised TRAINED judges who can properly judge a cars audiable capabilities..

MK_Promotions, quick question, how come we never see a SQ compition from yall??

[videsht]

MK_Promotions, quick question, how come we never see a SQ compition from yall??

youth mk havin official IASCA SQ on October 5th

Back when said sunny had toy cars...

ah de good days

[boom]

Really? Where can I find more info of this show?


yuh know all of us talking CP unbaised etc etc, anyone ever thought if installers was trained and thought the proper techniques to install/ tune maybe we would see less rayman(sp) box ontop of cars..


IMO the whole problem stems from lack of training,

[videsht]

http://z11.invisionfree.com/mktrinieven ... =4701&st=0

[Lance]

Pause for a cause, My heart just skipped a beat,

MK added IASCA SQ comps to his schedule?

I donno what to say.

[nervewrecker]

now what could be done iz an elimination round where cars are put under de meter (as they register) to see wa scores they make

explian?

you mean check thier spl?

but ent spl & normal music playing is 2 compleatly different thing?