The Religion Discussion

[turbohead]

too much long answers to read... neone ever heard of short answers?

[sMASH]

^^ya unnastan

[Red Fraction]

Duane what he said made no proper sense. Empty yourself and then look at things then make a choice. Leave that for the new age movement who making people believe we were born as gods and will continue to exist as gods.

So far I'm yet to see people prove the bible wrong with "hard evidence" In order to rebuke the bibles claims you have to be able to produce hardcopy evidence to back up your claims.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Duane what he said made no proper sense. Empty yourself and then look at things then make a choice. Leave that for the new age movement who making people believe we were born as gods and will continue to exist as gods.

So far I'm yet to see people prove the bible wrong with "hard evidence" In order to rebuke the bibles claims you have to be able to produce hardcopy evidence to back up your claims.

no, you have that part wrong

you are stating that your beliefs are right - therefore the burden of proof is yours.
Similarly the burden of proof that there is no God lies with with the atheists

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophi ... n_of_proof

In the same way you demand that science has to prove that the theory of evolution is true before you believe it, is the same way YOU must prove the Bible is more right than the Qur'an, before Muslims believe what you are saying is true.

take a look at this video

[d spike]

Spike

This!!!

So if you think about it, those who enjoy life to the fullest, and revel in their existence, are worshiping God. (They, in some way, have clearly understood PART of why we are here - and they will discover more as they journey through life... BUT IN THEIR OWN TIME.

Simply put They have not understood anything about god.


rev·el
[rev-uh l]

- verb (used without object)
1.
to take great pleasure or delight (usually fol. by in ): to revel in luxury.
to make merry; indulge in boisterous festivities.
- noun
boisterous merrymaking or festivity; revelry.
Often, revels.  an occasion of merrymaking or noisy festivity with dancing, masking, etc.

God takes NO pleasure in revelry.

"in their own time you say?"
If the 4 people who died yesterday knew they would have never made it back home alive after they "revelled" in excitement and joy.they would have never left their homes but as the good book also says "quoted for enhancing point"

Oh my.
So you get hung up on words… and completely miss the meaning of the sentence.
That’s like not being able to see the forest for the trees.
If you are going to take every word I use out of context, then this dialogue is going to be most tedious.
Yes, I used the word “revel”… and that drove you nuts.
First of all, look at the context the word was used in.
I said they would “revel in their existence”, not just “revel”. I wasn’t talking about vulgar pleasures – if that is the only pleasure you know, then your life must be rather droll.
Have you ever woken before the sun rose, and wait outside to see the day come alive? Take a walk on a crisp, clear morning under the trees? Or take a quiet stroll on the beach on an evening with just the waves for company? Have you ever watched the stars, and felt that jolt of amazement upon seeing a meteorite, or a passing satellite? You feel a joy that no fete or drink-up can bring, a glory in being alive.
Have you never bathed in the glow of being loved by another breathing human being? And attempt to return that love? That rush you feel when someone special walks into the room? Or feel a joy multiplied when you share something you love with that person… and realize they love the same thing too?
You sad, little child. If carousing and drinking is the only pleasure you know, then there is a lot to life you haven’t even begun to live. You ARE that child whose gift was the skateboard that never left the shelf.

To revel in one's existence is to be aware of one's existence, to experience the Creation with joy. It is because God knew we would enjoy existing that caused Him to create us - but you would need to understand exactly what Love is to appreciate this, and clearly, you aren't ready for that yet. You are still hung up on being Righteous.

Simply put They have not understood anything about god.

Very nice. Judgement... but I will deal with that next.
This concept of "understanding" or "knowing" God is a serious problem. Fundamentalists talk about it all the time, failing to realize that we are here to understand and know EACH OTHER. We are part of the Creation for a reason. We are here with each other for a reason - but I explained this in the same post you are responding to... but you were too busy looking for something to shred to see what I was talking about.
They understand God's Creation... and that is a far more real aspect of God than the airy-fairy (and errant) concepts floating around in your head - which in turn is based on a re-translated opinion hundreds of years old (written by someone totally alien to your way of life and culture) of someone else's experience of God WITHIN HIS CREATION.

No wonder you can think of "The Great Controversy" as history, or consider Daniel's dream as relevant and specific.

judgment... Don't make that mistake. Instead, say, "If I were like that and didn't change, I believe I would have a special place in hell." Reserve your ability to judge for yourself and your own actions - that is what it's for. Directing it outward warps it's ability to do good and to better oneself

So you're saying is don't tell you the truth?make it sound pleasing to the ears?

So why it is when the truth is spoken plain and without cover up,it comes across as self righteous judgement?

If you wish to quote Jesus, start with this: “Judge not, that ye shall not be judged.”
What does that have to do with truth?
You have completely missed the point I was making. Your ability to judge is for you to weigh your own choices and actions… but you want to judge others. You want a soap-box where you can stand and condemn others – that is your concept of “doing the right thing”.

Let it suffice to say that your knowledge of right and wrong is yours to judge your own actions, what is truth for you, what is acceptable for you... not to tell others what to do or believe. They must be allowed to exercise that same gift in their lives - in order for the choice they make to be truly theirs.

"even whether you believe in God or not is not really important"

Your above statement just clearly made God null and void. God sets the standard for man to meet not the other way around.some of your comments are very misleading and can lead someone who does know to fall "just saying" your belief in God is exceedingly important to ones survival and death. Who feeds you? Who clothes you? Who allows you to be able to live life to the fullest while hating him at the same time? Surely not of your own accord.

Again you take my words out of context. Look at where I said it.

The point of our existence here may very well be to learn to care for one another... one big, ant farm experiment to prove that love is supreme... In which case, even whether you believe in God or not is not really important - as the movie "Legion" showed, it's far more important that He believes in us... and our ability to love... to pick ourselves up from the mistakes that we make, to heal, to forgive... and to continue, striving in this reality to make the choices that we will be rewarded for in the next, and make this place a better place to live in...

I am trying to make a point (using a movie reference) to show an old school of thought: that the Creation is a perfect attempt by God to prove a point. This line of thinking shows the RELATIVE IMPORTANCE of how we view ourselves, each other, God... and how He views us.

...But you wouldn't know about this, would you? Seeing as how Ellen G. White never mentioned it in "her" writings...

If you look at a movie and concur that is what gods nature is like, my friend you are terribly misinformed and brain washed by this world.

If you are referring to what I wrote about Avatar earlier in the thread, then you didn't read enough. The argument against it was a false one, shunning it for all the wrong reasons. I simply showed that the themes that existed in the movie were quite applicable and relevant from the point of view of what is good, just and sacred.
If you are referring to my "Legion" reference above, then you suffer from extreme narrow-mindedness. This was made in a discussion in which those who claimed to not believe in God were taking part. Quoting a set of scripture would have made ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE (but yet certain folks do this, which goes to show that blindness and ignorance still thrive) so I borrowed a concept that they would UNDERSTAND to make my point.

...but you would prefer to pound the heathen with scripture to get them to see your point, right? Good grief... all they seem to teach young 'uns these days about evangelizing is to bang the bible and sneer... you seem determined to catch your share of flies with vinegar...

You seem young, hot and sweaty...
Put down your laser-guided judgement death-ray, take a deep breath and look around you.
Learn to love others...
(truly love, not that thinly-veiled, condescending pity that urges one to sneer at others' beliefs and their right to believe, and at the same time cajole them to join your band)
...learn the ways of the God who IS Love.
In a couple of decades, you will hopefully realize what I have been saying.

...I have deceived no-one. I allow people to open their eyes and see the hand of the Creator in His Creation for themselves (I sit on a riverbank, selling water ), I refuse to hound and harangue them, chase them with whips and scary stories. God put us here, to find Him here, among the dregs and clots of life... this is where we are, this is where He is, this is where we are meant to find Him... open your eyes... open the mind that the good Lord gave you (in the hope that you would use it) and learn this time the ways of He you claim belief in.

Existence is an exquisite gift - but it is only for a time, and if you believe that you must answer for what you did with it, then certainly, horse-whipping people to believe in something that either they do already (they just don't fully understand or appreciate the glimmering jewels deep in their mind that exhorts them to do what is good, to love and care... just like knowing the stars are in the sky, you don't really know exactly what they're like or can appreciate their vastness - and who does anyway?) or they will in time on their own accord... that whipping is a waste of limited time and energy that could have been better spent showing someone how to love or appreciate what they have.
Please find a proper theologian and study his work, if this is the field you wish to pursue. There is plenty you need to unlearn before you even start to learn what you need to know before you come out in public and start proclaiming. Even Peter made mistakes - but was man enough to admit it and correct himself.

[sMASH]

the hardest thing is letting go.

u know how hard it is for me to get my mind in the frame of father son and ghost so as i can prepare my self to understand what spike have to say. i am willing to do it to get ( what seems like a once in a life time opportunity) a proper explanation of the god head.


when u think about the first part of the statement 'there is no god but the one god' u get rid of all the preconceived notions of what a god is u had before. u stop thinking that the god is a turtle supporting the earth, or he was born from the sea, or what ever. all that u thought about god before, as ur mind could grasp, u get rid of it.
why? because when u do that, u get to realize how a being such as god is to the world that we know. we exist with families, and we eat, and we grieve when they die, and get angry and so on. god is apart from this world, not above so much as beyond. we cannot really conceptualize how such a being is. a being that could create the giant clusters of galaxies as well as the picoscopic atoms and subatomic particles. the being that can create forces such as electricity, and gravity and all the other weird things still being discovered.
when u read the scriptures and u see how he can eliminate a person and bring them back from oblivion, just as easily, u should realize, this is not a being we are accustomed to in this world. this being is not bound by the restrictions of the world we know. it is far from being regulated by it.
god has no restrictions. he has no laws he operates with in. all laws are what he makes, and he makes them for his creations.
to try to explain god, and contain him by applying worldly aspects of great and love and wanting is not giving due credit to a being who could remove a being from this reality and them bring them back as though nothing had happened

i don't focus on god's emotional side. he simply has to say 'be' and what ever he wills, is willed into existence. he set me on a course, in certain conditions, with some rules to live by... this is the important thing. a being like that doesn't have to love or hate or feel saddened, as the cause of their emotion can be modified to suit that condition. who is to say that god can't create the person with out the condition which caused the great sadness

[d spike]

u know how hard it is for me to get my mind in the frame of father son and ghost so as i can prepare my self to understand what spike have to say. i am willing to do it to get ( what seems like a once in a life time opportunity) a proper explanation of the god head.

You have an open mind, and the ability to think rationally.
Whenever you are ready for the next step on the ladder, just say so.

[996vtwin]

enjoy...

[sMASH]

rofl from 2:40

[AdamB]

Duane what he said made no proper sense. Empty yourself and then look at things then make a choice. Leave that for the new age movement who making people believe we were born as gods and will continue to exist as gods.

So far I'm yet to see people prove the bible wrong with "hard evidence" In order to rebuke the bibles claims you have to be able to produce hardcopy evidence to back up your claims.

no, you have that part wrong

you are stating that your beliefs are right - therefore the burden of proof is yours.
Similarly the burden of proof that there is no God lies with with the atheists

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophi ... n_of_proof

In the same way you demand that science has to prove that the theory of evolution is true before you believe it, is the same way YOU must prove the Bible is more right than the Qur'an, before Muslims believe what you are saying is true.

take a look at this video

wow great video Duane,
Now I have a question: If someone in today's world were to do something "truly miraculous" as their proof like Moses splitting open the Red Sea or Jesus feeding multitudes of people with one basket of bread and fish? would that be considered proof...if it could not then be disproved?

[AdamB]

u know how hard it is for me to get my mind in the frame of father son and ghost so as i can prepare my self to understand what spike have to say. i am willing to do it to get ( what seems like a once in a life time opportunity) a proper explanation of the god head.

You have an open mind, and the ability to think rationally.
Whenever you are ready for the next step on the ladder, just say so.

We (muslims) only say about GOD what HE has informed us about HIMSELF in HIS book (Quran) and from HIS messenger (Muhammad).

dspike, can you prove your claims about GOD and the Trinity as mentioned by Duane? If not, at least attempt to explain or deduce rationally from your scriptures (Bible)?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ well you also have a burden of proof of proving that your statement "GOD what HE has informed us about HIMSELF in HIS book (Quran) and from HIS messenger (Muhammad)" is true.

wow great video Duane,
Now I have a question: If someone in today's world were to do something "truly miraculous" as their proof like Moses splitting open the Red Sea or Jesus feeding multitudes of people with one basket of bread and fish? would that be considered proof...if it could not then be disproved?

once it can be tested and proven authentic, then it is considered proof.

last week an astronomer claimed that he observed asteroids in the Kuiper belt being affected by a new planet's gravity. Where did this new planet just appear from? The astronomer believes it is there. However no one has actually seen the rogue planet - so now the astronomer must do tests to see if his notion is correct.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... e-science/

The astronomer "feels" the best reason for such activity is the existence of a large planet out there. However science does not operate on "feelings".
the only way he can prove that new planet exists is if it can be observed, tested and confirmed. This is the way of science, even if they prove themselves wrong.

So far the moving asteroids cannot be considered proof of a new planet any more than someone stating their quick accident recovery is due to their faith in God - since both would be based on biased personal feelings - which cannot be used as proof.

[sMASH]

he's not about proving which side is right or wrong. but he recognizes that some supporters have misinformation, or an incomplete understanding of what he has detailed research knowledge, accumulated over the years.

think of him as the referee

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ If you are referring to d spike, then yes I can agree with that

[AdamB]

^ well you also have a burden of proof of proving that your statement "GOD what HE has informed us about HIMSELF in HIS book (Quran) and from HIS messenger (Muhammad)" is true.

I can prove that our (muslim) concept of GOD is established from our evidences namely the Quran and hadith (recorded sayings, approvals, disapprovals) of our prophet.

What I am asking is ...can followers of other religions prove their concept of GOD rationally deduced from their scriptures?

I haven't received a response from my christian friends who call Jesus the SON OF GOD, to just prove from their own scriptures that those words came out of his mouth. I will repeat:

I will challenge anyone or all of the Christians here to quote one statement from the mouth of Jesus in the bible gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke or John) where he said or called himself "THE SON OF GOD". Not what others called him but what came out of his mouth - "reported speech nah". I am certain he always said "son of man". I stand to be corrected.

[hong kong phooey]

What about my dog?
Do animals go to heaven
how come no body try to convert dogs and monkeys ?
Is it because they have no money?

[RBphoto]

What about my dog?
Do animals go to heaven
how come no body try to convert dogs and monkeys ?
Is it because they have no money?

They are too intellegent for that religion crock.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

I can prove that our (muslim) concept of GOD is established from our evidences namely the Quran and hadith (recorded sayings, approvals, disapprovals) of our prophet.

What I am asking is ...can followers of other religions prove their concept of GOD rationally deduced from their scriptures?

well at the same time the Christians are saying they can prove their concept of God through the Bible and Gospels and Jesus.

according to 2011 census, 2.5 billion people in the world are Christians
While 1.6 billion follow Islam.

that is out of a world total population of 7 billion people. Neither are really in the majority or make up even half of the people in the world.

So it all boils down to what you choose to believe.

[AdamB]

What about my dog?
Do animals go to heaven
how come no body try to convert dogs and monkeys ?
Is it because they have no money?

They are too intellegent for that religion crock.

says the guy who professes to belong to at least two and probably learnt to spell intelligent from either dogs or monkeys!! LOL

[megadoc1]

^ well you also have a burden of proof of proving that your statement "GOD what HE has informed us about HIMSELF in HIS book (Quran) and from HIS messenger (Muhammad)" is true.

I can prove that our (muslim) concept of GOD is established from our evidences namely the Quran and hadith (recorded sayings, approvals, disapprovals) of our prophet.

What I am asking is ...can followers of other religions prove their concept of GOD rationally deduced from their scriptures?

I haven't received a response from my christian friends who call Jesus the SON OF GOD, to just prove from their own scriptures that those words came out of his mouth. I will repeat:

I will challenge anyone or all of the Christians here to quote one statement from the mouth of Jesus in the bible gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke or John) where he said or called himself "THE SON OF GOD". Not what others called him but what came out of his mouth - "reported speech nah". I am certain he always said "son of man". I stand to be corrected.

mr Adam in the bible the disciples of Jesus knew him to be the son of God .everything we as Christians knew about Jesus starts with us knowing he is the son of God, take a read of the bible your self...there will be no need to challenge!...look let me help yuh!


it seems like Jesus did say it but you need to read to see for yourself

Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Joh 10:36 As for me, the Father chose me and sent me into the world. How, then, can you say that I blaspheme because I said that I am the Son of God?



Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
..............................................
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
..........................
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


now this is Jesus speaking himself
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life ...please take a read


satan challenged Jesus on this
Mat 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Mat 4:5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
Mat 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Mat 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.


demons screamed at him in fear
Mat 8:28 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
Mat 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

Jesus response to one of his disciples who got revelation on who he(Jesus ) is
Mat 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
Mat 16:14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

when Jesus was asked If he is the son of God he only replied "you have said it " but it was enough for him to be accused of blasphemy
Jesus Mat 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
Mat 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Mat 26:65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

[nareshseep]

this is better than two people fighting who has the better imaginary friend...

[sensiman]

The Beyonder reigns supreme...




Unless this mofo decides to tango

[brams112]

What is the name of the guy who was following this jesus guy,how do we know for sure what is written in those pages is what one said so the other guy could write it down?

[sMASH]

alritey,

i already don't think as god in the ways of the world that we encounter and are accustomed to.
but still, the separation of person and nature is difficult. i mean, i like stuff, and the liking of the stuff influences my person. then 'me' is blended of person and nature.


but, the god head, is a separation of person, spirit, and nature????

alrite, i feel we can proceed, if it pleases u.

[turbohead]

The Prophet Muhammad's (PBUH) Last Sermon
This sermon was delivered on the Ninth Day of Dhul Hijjah 10 A.H. in the 'Uranah valley of Mount Arafat' (in Mecca).

After praising, and thanking Allah he said:

"O People, lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether after this year, I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefore listen to what I am saying to you very carefully and TAKE THESE WORDS TO THOSE WHO COULD NOT BE PRESENT HERE TODAY.

O People, just as you regard this month, this day, this city as Sacred, so regard the life and property of every Muslim as a sacred trust. Return the goods entrusted to you to their rightful owners. Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you. Remember that you will indeed meet your LORD, and that HE will indeed reckon your deeds. ALLAH has forbidden you to take usury (interest), therefore all interest obligation shall henceforth be waived. Your capital, however, is yours to keep. You will neither inflict nor suffer any inequity. Allah has Judged that there shall be no interest and that all the interest due to Abbas ibn 'Abd'al Muttalib (Prophet's uncle) shall henceforth be waived...

Beware of Satan, for the safety of your religion. He has lost all hope that he will ever be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things.

O People, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women, but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under Allah's trust and with His permission. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers. And it is your right that they do not make friends with any one of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste.

O People, listen to me in earnest, worship ALLAH, say your five daily prayers (Salah), fast during the month of Ramadan, and give your wealth in Zakat. Perform Hajj if you can afford to.

All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.

Remember, one day you will appear before ALLAH and answer your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.

O People, NO PROPHET OR APOSTLE WILL COME AFTER ME AND NO NEW FAITH WILL BE BORN. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the QURAN and my example, the SUNNAH and if you follow these you will never go astray.

All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O ALLAH, that I have conveyed your message to your people".

the above quote is islam in its simplest form or fashion and could not be broken down more logical than this.

[d spike]

u know how hard it is for me to get my mind in the frame of father son and ghost so as i can prepare my self to understand what spike have to say. i am willing to do it to get ( what seems like a once in a life time opportunity) a proper explanation of the god head.

You have an open mind, and the ability to think rationally.
Whenever you are ready for the next step on the ladder, just say so.

sMASH, indeed I am sorry if my brevity (due to fatigue the night I posted this response) has caused any misunderstanding. By "the next step on the ladder" I was referring to the next stage in my explaining the concept of the Trinity, nothing else.

We (muslims) only say about GOD what HE has informed us about HIMSELF in HIS book (Quran) and from HIS messenger (Muhammad).

Did you actually read this before you hit the "Submit" button?
Forget about religion (based on faith) just use logic (based on rational thinking) - something Muslim scholars used to be famous for...
You are claiming to be true
a statement that is found only in one book
and you hold this premise to be true
because it is found in this book
and you believe the book to be true
because it contains that statement.

In other words,
your faith is based on a book which was written based on that same faith.

I would suggest you look up "circular thinking".

Try and understand the difference between Faith and Knowledge.

dspike, can you prove your claims about GOD and the Trinity as mentioned by Duane? If not, at least attempt to explain or deduce rationally from your scriptures (Bible)?

As to your first question:
This query is based on a misconception that seems to be quite common in this thread, namely, the confusing of Faith and Knowledge.
Religion is based on FAITH - that which is believed to be true, but cannot be PROVEN to be true.
Regarding your second question, I would suggest you perform that action that many of the more acrimonious folk here find most unappealing: read my posts. If you were doing so, you would realize that I am in the process of explaining such a concept. You would also realize that my explanation is being done in such a way that those whose preferred scripture is not the bible would understand. With this in mind, only a stranger to logic would expect me to use Christian scripture to support a Christian belief.

I wouldn't mind showing the roots of this Christian belief (or any, for that matter) where it exists in scripture for the benefit of those who genuinely want to know... but you have made it quite clear that you just want a target to spit at. Why should I waste what little time I have left of this existence, just so you could sharpen your aim? Give a decent reason and I will oblige.

What I am asking is ...can followers of other religions prove their concept of GOD rationally deduced from their scriptures?

The height of inanity! I think I have explained sufficiently why this is an irrational question.
Besides, ALL scriptures support their religion of origin - that is why they are considered the scriptures of their specific religion!
For those who are students of language, I offer the following:

I can prove that our (muslim) concept of GOD is established from our evidences namely the Quran and hadith (recorded sayings, approvals, disapprovals) of our prophet.

I can prove that our (Christian) concept of GOD is established from our evidences namely the Bible and letters (recorded sayings, approvals, disapprovals) of our Apostles.

I can prove that our (Hindu) concept of GOD is established from our evidences namely the Bhagavad Gītā (भगवद् गीता) and Gheranda Samhita (धेरंड संहिता), Upanishads (उपनिषद्), Brahma sūtras ( ब्रह्म सूत्र) ... you know, recorded sayings, approvals, disapprovals of our many holy men.

[d spike]

:drama:

this is better than two people fighting who has the better imaginary friend...

Well put.

[d spike]

alritey,

i already don't think as god in the ways of the world that we encounter and are accustomed to.
but still, the separation of person and nature is difficult. i mean, i like stuff, and the liking of the stuff influences my person. then 'me' is blended of person and nature.


but, the god head, is a separation of person, spirit, and nature????

alrite, i feel we can proceed

The Christian concept of God is NOT a matter of separation of person and nature. I just need you to be able to view them as separate, in order to understand what is to follow.

Our basic understanding of Person and Nature makes us assume that an individual can only have one Person and Nature... but this applies only to humans.
God is not confined to human limitations.
Let me know what you think.

Cheers

[sMASH]

i agree with this step by stage approach.
i take a while to assimilate stuff.
i also have a barrier to concept of the god head so i get time to work things through
i also have life to deal with as every one does.


god not being limited as humans are limited, thus one person and one nature not applicable.
come to think of it, i remember some one saying sumting like three person one body, or so. but they provided no explanation, and they made the statement as if that was all there was to it so i did not give it much thought.

god not restricted to one person, one nature.

good to go, as u get chance, we goin.

[d spike]

sMASH, I would like to make an analogy at this point.
The problem with an analogy in a discussion like this is it is awkward to compare God and His attributes to tangible, finite things... but these are the things we know. (The sea is like a glass of water, just bigger... this doesn't quite cut it, does it?) So please bear with me, as you read the following...
Please remember that whether or not you agree with this, is NOT important. The gift of logic allows any rational thinking person to UNDERSTAND. It is on such a premise that Tolerance is based - not the ignorant "Dem so is just so, yes..." Fear is based on ignorance.
Anyway, as Super Grover would say, "Onto our story!"

Think of a man standing in front of a mirror.
He views an image of himself.
He is happy with what he sees, and loves his reflection.

Let me interject. At this point, you must be thinking, "How narcissistic, how vain!"
I ask you to think of this man not as a human as ourselves (with failings such as vanity) but as a Being that is perfect IN EVERY WAY.
One should believe that God is PERFECT in all aspects... and so, all that He does and is, is perfect... That it is beyond human ability or experience must be kept in mind...

Recall, if you may, the attributes of a Spirit.
It knows and loves.

The being seeing his reflection, knows his reflection, and loves his reflection.

A seemingly rather crude analogy, but it explains the concepts as simply as possible.

Let us now apply the analogy.
The Being is God.
We all have an idea of ourselves, some more realistic than others, but this concept one has of oneself is only a vague idea... not tangible in any way. You cannot truly share it in its entirety with anyone else. No matter how much you explain this idea of oneself to another (on the telephone to a stranger, for example) they will never truly share your idea - they will have to form an idea of their own based on your attempt - and if you have ever tried to explain yourself to someone, then you know how limited this can be!

If this Idea of oneself were truly perfect, it would take form... become real... a form, exact and identical in every way... NOT another being, NOT a copy - for this implies it is less than perfect. The SAME, not a twin - for then that is two Beings...

This Idea is Perfect in every way, so the Idea of Goodness would be Good. The Idea of Love can love. Goodness loves that which is Good.
As this Idea is Perfect in every way, thus it too can know and love.
It knows the Father, and loves the Father.
This Love the Idea has for its Origin, and the Love that the Origin has for the Idea of Himself, is perfect too!
This Love takes form, as only Perfect Love can, and it flows between the Origin and the Idea.

Thus the Trinity:
One Nature... God.
...but Three Persons. The Origin, the Idea, the Perfect Love and Awareness.
The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Three Persons in one God.

"The Son,
Eternally begotten of the Father,
Begotten, not made.
Of one in being with the Father
Through Him, all things were made..."
"The Holy Spirit,
proceeds from the Father and the Son..."

There is more that can (and should be) explained, but I will stop at this point for your feedback... and for certain others to lob their rotten fruit...