The Religion Discussion

[d spike]

D spike ecclesiastes says "and man knoweth not His time,as the fishes that are caught in a net.
If a car flip and hit your own on the next side of the highway.

Man knoweth not his time. as fish that are caught In a net
A speeding car crosses the median And takes your life away in an instant

My response to duanes question was answered. It just didn't make sense to you that's all.

Pull the other one, lad. It's got bells on it.

[dnoah]

the bible made me Stop beliveing in the trinity , i uesd to belive that god was 3 in 1 and god jesus and spirt was equal and non was better than the other but jesus said in the bible

My Father is greater than I."
[The Bible, John 14:28]

My Father is greater than all."
[The Bible, John 10:29]
so if u belive in the trinity that means that the bible mad a mistake or u dont belive what the bible say

real talk
dnoah

[d spike]

My response to duanes question was answered. It just didn't make sense to you that's all.

If God has given guidelines on owning slaves, who is man to say slavery is now immoral?

Because of the stubborn and hardness of the former generations hearts, God gave them over to be captured and taken into bondage. Have you not heard "ancient isreal & the 70 years in Babylon,the isrealites and the king of egypt"

Duane's query asks about the morality of owning slaves, as this is something that God has given guidelines for.
Red Fraction's response is that slavery is a result of the disobedience of the Israelites' fore-fathers.
How is that a logical answer?

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)

So Red Fraction is saying that God is giving guidelines on how to treat foreigners as slaves (after the Israelites have left Egypt) because the fore-fathers of the Israelites were disobedient?

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6)
Some Israelites are allowed to keep other Israelites as slaves because their fore-fathers were disobedient?

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11)
So you can keep a sex-slave because her ancestors were disobedient? (Anybody care to introduce me to a pretty girl whose parents have been naughty? )

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21)
Okay then... so Israelites are allowed to beat slaves to death (provided the slave lingers for at least two days before kicking the bucket) because their own foe-fathers were disobedient?
How does all this make sense?

I'll tell you.
In the mind of the fanatic, sense/logic does not exist, or it is of little importance - only loyalty matters.
...and so, once faced with an argument they can't answer, they proceed to disgorge scripture, hoping to flood you, bore you, bewilder you, or just wear you down... until you give up and quit the argument. Being right has nothing to do with it, just being the last one left standing. It's probably the same thinking that justified duelling to prove one's innocence - God would protect and support the righteous and the righteous would prevail.


The support for slavery exists at a point in the Bible because at that point, slavery was part of the accepted culture at that time.
Simple answer. No codswallop.

[megadoc1]

Which 'christian' you know, 200 years ago, was any race other than white? The Christian way was forced upon the Slaves, and indentured labourers, and alot of them succumbed to it.

in the book of acts penned under 100 years of Christianity (about ad 60's) there was an encounter with an Ethiopian Eunuch

Act 8:26 26, 27 And an angel of the Lord spoke to Philip, saying, Arise at once and be going on your way in a southerly direction along the road which goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza. This road is in an uninhabited region. And having arisen, he proceeded on his journey.



Act 8:27 27-33 And behold. A man, an Ethiopian, a eunuch, a royal official of great authority serving under Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of all her treasure, who had gone to Jerusalem for the purpose of worshipping, was now returning and sitting in his chariot and reading the prophet Isaiah. And the Spirit said to Philip, Go towards this chariot at once and join yourself to it. And having run towards it, Philip heard him reading Isaiah the prophet. And he said, Do you really understand the things which you are reading? And he said, How am I able to unless someone guides me? And he urged Philip to come up and sit with him. Now, the contents of the scripture which he was reading were these: In the same manner as a sheep, to slaughter He was led. And in the same manner as a lamb before the one who is shearing it is without a sound, in the same manner He does not open His mouth. In His humiliation the equitable administration of justice due Him was denied Him. His nativity who shall set forth, for His life is taken from the earth?
Act 8:34 34-40 And the eunuch answering Philip said, I beg of you, concerning whom is the prophet saying this, concerning himself or concerning some other person of a different character? And Philip opened his mouth and beginning from this scripture announced the good news to him concerning Jesus. And as they were proceeding along the road they came to a certain water, and the eunuch says, Look, water. What is there that hinders me from being baptized? And he gave orders for the chariot to stand still. And the two descended into the water, both Philip and the eunuch. And he baptized him. And when they came up out from the water, the Lord's Spirit caught away Philip, and the eunuch saw him no longer, and he proceeded along his road rejoicing. ......

guess what brah? your 200 year marker is of by over 1600 years a quick look up on ethiopian orthodoxy


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_ ... edo_Church

The Ethiopian Church claims its earliest origins from the royal official said to have been baptized by Philip the Evangelist (not to be confused with Philip the Apostle), one of the seven deacons:

Then the angel of the Lord said to Philip, Start out and go south to the road that leads down from Jerusalem to Gaza. So he set out and was on his way when he caught sight of an Ethiopian. This man was a eunuch, a high official of the Kandake (Candace) Queen of Ethiopia in charge of all her treasure. (Acts, 8:26-27)

The passage continues by describing how Philip helped the Ethiopian treasurer understand a passage from Isaiah that the Ethiopian was reading. After the Ethiopian received an explanation of the passage, he requested that Philip baptize him, and Philip did so. The Ethiopic version of this verse reads "Hendeke" (ህንደኬ); Queen Gersamot Hendeke VII was the Queen of Ethiopia from ca. 42 to 52.

Orthodox Christianity became the established church of the Ethiopian Axumite Kingdom under king Ezana in the 4th century through the efforts of a Syrian Greek named Frumentius, known in Ethiopia as Abba Selama, Kesaté Birhan ("Father of Peace, Revealer of Light"). As a youth, Frumentius had been shipwrecked with his brother Aedesius on the Eritrean coast. The brothers managed to be brought to the royal court, where they rose to positions of influence and converted Emperor Ezana to Christianity, causing him to be baptised. Ezana sent Frumentius to Alexandria to ask the Patriarch, St. Athanasius, to appoint a bishop for Ethiopia. Athanasius appointed Frumentius himself, who returned to Ethiopia as Bishop with the name of Abune Selama.

From then on, until 1959, the Pope of Alexandria, as Patriarch of All Africa, always named an Egyptian (a Copt) to be Abuna or Archbishop of the Ethiopian Church.

[d spike]

Which 'christian' you know, 200 years ago, was any race other than white? The Christian way was forced upon the Slaves, and indentured labourers, and alot of them succumbed to it.

in the book of acts penned under 100 years of Christianity (about ad 60's) there was an encounter with an Ethiopian Eunuch
guess what brah? your 200 year marker is of by over 1600 years a quick look up on ethiopian orthodoxy


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_ ... edo_Church

Orthodox Christianity became the established church of the Ethiopian Axumite Kingdom under king Ezana in the 4th century through the efforts of a Syrian Greek named Frumentius...

As much as it pains me to agree with megadoc (so many times he has said that my eternal reward would be )
Christianity did spread into "non-white" countries very early... a lot earlier than even the historians of the Middle Ages thought...
...Wait a minute!!! Christianity started in the Middle East... as a "jewish sect"... since when were Jews/Semitic folk considered as honky folk? (Wasn't that the point Hitler was trying to make? )

When St. Francis Xavier reached India in the middle of the sixteenth century, all hot and sweaty to start converting heathen, he found a Christian community already in place. These were the Nasrani, or "St. Thomas Christians", who traced their roots back to St. Thomas the Apostle's arrival in India in middle of the first century. (Actually, the Portuguese met and allied themselves with the Nasrani Church in 1598, 8 years before Francis was even born...)
There are some third and fourth century Roman writers who refer to Thomas' trip to India, including Ambrose of Milan, Gregory of Nazianzus, Jerome, and Ephrem the Syrian, while Eusebius of Caesarea notes that his teacher Pantaenus visited a Christian community in India in the 2nd century.

[ruffneck_12]

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.

2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.

3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.

5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.

7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.

8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

9. Do not harm little children.

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

[Sky]

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.

2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.

3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.

5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.

7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.

8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

9. Do not harm little children.

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

What is this?

[d spike]

Linking religion and racism or slavery is a recipe for confusion.
People will always find a way to justify their effort to survive - and religion is always a good source of justification material.
In days of yore when the survival of the group meant domination over competing groups, then one would have to believe that one's group had a right to survive/dominate - what better way of ensuring that every member strove to this end, justified in doing so due to their believing in a divine right to exist, or better yet, believing that they were superior?
Almost every ancient group claims to have a divine link... either they came down from the sky, or their bossman was descended from a god...

Dominating other groups not only strengthened one's group's position, but also provided free labour in the form of slavery. Despite the teachings of the seventies, slavery existed long before the whole "Africans being dragged off to the New World" thing...
Folks who poke at the Christian Europeans for trafficking slaves out of Africa, are very good at ignoring Arab Muslims who are still busy trafficking slaves out of Africa.
My point is:
it doesn't matter what their religion is, but slavers will always use their religion to justify their evil trade.
So to blame Christianity/Islam for slavery is rather pointless.
Once again, people will always find a way to justify their effort to survive - and religion is always a good source of justification material.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ seems to be the 11 guidelines of Satanism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaVeyan_Satanism

[Sky]

^ seems to be the 11 guidelines of Satanism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaVeyan_Satanism

They seem like nice people lol.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Ok slimshaney

Cool story

In 2009 I was in a bike accident on the highway...

...If I didn't have faith all now I'd be a dead man
Cause I was already on deaths door step

I wonder if there was anyone from any other religion who has a cool story?

I wonder if their faith in their God led to such a miracle recovery?...........if it did, does that validate their God also?

I wonder if those who had such a miracle recovery and believes in no God, to whom do we aloocate the miracle?

Mamoo, is Red F. saying that all those people who die in accidents are lacking in faith????

I was wondering the same thing

I spent 2 weeks in hospital three major and two minor surgeries.
I build back all my blood on my own

so no credit to the doctors who performed the surgery?

if through faith you could "build back all the blood on your own" and recover, through stronger faith you would NOT have needed the surgery at all?

How come God didn't keep you away from the accident instead of all that drama?
If you are going to say that the accident was God's way of increasing your faith then someone like MG Man would probably have to be cut in half, de-boned, minced up into 1" cubes, reassembled by doctors and be walking again in a week to get the kind of faith you now have!

I'm just trying to understand your logic in using your recovery in this accident as an act of God and not the doctors.

[hong kong phooey]

something to think about
if it is a repost my god have mercy on my soul


A brief dialogue between a Brazilian theologist
Leonardo Boff and the Dalai Lama.

In a round table discussion about religion and freedom in which Dalai Lama and myself were participating at recess I maliciously, and also with interest, asked him:
“Your holiness, what is the best religion?”
I thought he would say:
“The Tibetan Buddhism” or “The oriental religions, much older than Chritianity”
Dalai Lama paused, smiled and looked me in the eyes …. which surprised me because I knew of the malice contained in my question.
He answered:
“The best religion is the one that gets you closest to God.
It is the one that makes you a better person.”

To get out of my embarassment with such a wise answer, I asked: “What is it that makes me better?”

He responded:
“Whatever makes you
more compassionate,
more sensible,
more detached,
more loving,
more humanitarian,
more responsible,
more ethical.”

“The religion that will do that for you is the best religion”

I was silent for a moment, marvelling and even today thinking of his wise and irrefutable response:
“I am not interested, my friend, about your religión or if you are religious or not.
“What really is important to me is your behaviour in front of your peers, family, work, community, and in front of the world.”
“Remember, the universe is the echo of our actions and our thoughts.”

[Red Fraction]

Duane lol I don't want to explain that accident story. The masses will just find a next excuse to discredit everything I say

But to spike and the others who say Christians and Christianity is madness etc and Christians were killers and fOrced their religion on others blah blah.

I'll just quote some from the great controversy,because it's alot.

And don't be confused with being a Christian and Christianity "no pun intended"

In the sixteenth century the Reformation, presenting an open Bible to the people, had sought admission to all the countries of Europe. Some nations welcomed it with gladness, as a messenger of Heaven.The war against the Bible, carried forward for so many centuries in France, culminated in the scenes of the Revolution. That terrible outbreaking was but the legitimate result of Rome’s suppression of the Scriptures.

It had been Rome’s policy, under a profession of reverence for the Bible, to keep it locked up in an unknown tongue and hidden away from the people. Under her rule the witnesses prophesied “clothed in sackcloth.” But another power—the beast from the bottomless pit—was to arise to make open, avowed war upon the word of God

No monarch ever ventured upon more open and highhanded rebellion against the authority of Heaven than did the king of Egypt. When the message was brought him by Moses, in the name of the Lord, Pharaoh proudly answered: “Who is Jehovah, that I should hearken unto His voice to let Israel go? I know not Jehovah, and moreover I will not let Israel go.” Exodus 5:2, A.R.V. This is atheism, and the nation represented by Egypt would give voice to a similar denial of the claims of the living God and would manifest a like spirit of unbelief and defiance

This prophecy has received a most exact and striking fulfillment in the history of France. During the Revolution, in 1793, “the world for the first time heard an assembly of men, born and educated in civilization, and assuming the right to govern one of the finest of the European nations, uplift their united voice to deny the most solemn truth which man’s soul receives, and renounce unanimously the belief and worship of a Deity.”—Sir Walter Scott, Life of Napoleon, vol. 1, ch. 17. “France is the only nation in the world concerning which the authentic record survives, that as a nation she lifted her hand in open rebellion against the Author of the universe. Plenty of blasphemers, plenty of infidels, there have been, and still continue to be, in England, Germany, Spain, and elsewhere; but France stands apart in the world’s history as the single state which, by the decree of her Legislative Assembly, pronounced that there was no God, and of which the entire population of the capital, and a vast majority elsewhere, women as well as men, danced and sang with joy in accepting the announcement.”—Blackwood’s Magazine, November, 1870. – {GC 269.4}

And the historian presents together the atheism and the licentiousness of France, as given in the prophecy: “Intimately connected with these laws affecting religion, was that which reduced the union of marriage—the most sacred engagement which human beings can form, and the permanence of which leads most strongly to the consolidation of society—to the state of a mere civil contract of a transitory character, which any two persons might engage in and cast loose at pleasure.... If fiends had set themselves to work to discover a mode of most effectually destroying whatever is venerable, graceful, or permanent in domestic life, and of obtaining at the same time an assurance that the mischief which it was their object to create should be perpetuated from one generation to another, they could not have invented a more effectual plan that the degradation of marriage.... Sophie Arnoult, an actress famous for the witty things she said, described the republican marriage as ‘the sacrament of adultery.’”—Scott, vol. 1, ch. 17. – {GC 270.1}

With blasphemous boldness almost beyond belief, one of the priests of the new order said: “God, if You exist, avenge Your injured name. I bid You defiance! You remain silent; You dare not launch Your thunders. Who after this will believe in Your existence?”—Lacretelle, History 11:309; in Sir Archibald Alison, History of Europe, vol. 1, ch. 10. What an echo is this of the Pharaoh’s demand: “Who is Jehovah, that I should obey His voice?” “I know not Jehovah!” – {GC 274.3}

Rome was not slow to inflame their jealous fears. Said the pope to the regent of France in 1525: “This mania [Protestantism] will not only confound and destroy religion, but all principalities, nobility, laws, orders, and ranks besides.”—G. de Felice, History of the Protestants of France, b. 1, ch. 2, par. 8. A few years later a papal nuncio warned the king: “Sire, be not deceived. The Protestants will upset all civil as well as religious order.... The throne is in as much danger as the altar.... The introduction of a new religion must necessarily introduce a new government.”—D’Aubigne, History of the Reformation in Europe in the Time of Calvin, b. 2, ch. 36. And theologians appealed to the prejudices of the people by declaring that the Protestant doctrine “entices men away to novelties and folly; it robs the king of the devoted affection of his subjects, and devastates both church and state.” Thus Rome succeeded in arraying France against the Reformation. “It was to uphold the throne, preserve the nobles, and maintain the laws, that the sword of persecution was first unsheathed in France.”—Wylie, b. 13, ch. 4. – {GC 277.2}

By working upon the jealousy of the kings and the ruling classes, Rome had influenced them to keep the people in bondage, well knowing that the state would thus be weakened, and purposing by this means to fasten both rulers and people in her thrall. With farsighted policy she perceived that in order to enslave men effectually, the shackles must be bound upon their souls; that the surest way to prevent them from escaping their bondage was to render them incapable of freedom. A thousandfold more terrible than the physical suffering which resulted from her policy, was the moral degradation. Deprived of the Bible, and abandoned to the teachings of bigotry and selfishness, the people were shrouded in ignorance and superstition, and sunken in vice, so that they were wholly unfitted for self-government. – {GC 281.1}
But the outworking of all this was widely different from what Rome had purposed. Instead of holding the masses in a blind submission to her dogmas, her work resulted in making them infidels and revolutionists. Romanism they despised as priestcraft. They beheld the clergy as a party to their oppression. The only god they knew was the god of Rome; her teaching was their only religion. They regarded her greed and cruelty as the legitimate fruit of the Bible, and they would have none of it. – {GC 281.2}
Rome had misrepresented the character of God and perverted His requirements, and now men rejected both the Bible and its Author. She had required a blind faith in her dogmas, under the pretended sanction of the Scriptures. In the reaction, Voltaire and his associates cast aside God’s word altogether and spread everywhere the poison of infidelity. Rome had ground down the people under her iron heel; and now the masses, degraded and brutalized, in their recoil from her tyranny, cast off all restraint. Enraged at the glittering cheat to which they had so long paid homage, they rejected truth and falsehood together; and mistaking license for liberty, the slaves of vice exulted in their imagined freedom. – {GC 281.3}

Atheists, infidels, and apostates oppose and denounce God’s law; but the results of their influence prove that the well-being of man is bound up with his obedience of the divine statutes. Those who will not read the lesson from the book of God are bidden to read it in the history of nations. – {GC 285.3}

The infidel Voltaire once boastingly said: “I am weary of hearing people repeat that twelve men established the Christian religion. I will prove that one man may suffice to overthrow it.” Generations have passed since his death. Millions have joined in the war upon the Bible. But it is so far from being destroyed, that where there were a hundred in Voltaire’s time, there are now ten thousand, yes, a hundred thousand copies of the book of God. In the words of an early Reformer concerning the Christian church, “The Bible is an anvil that has worn out many hammers

So dspike I just quoted from history "the great controversy" where the bible has been and to where christians has come.and what they have been through,to let men and women know. That without
god you shall surely die.


Lots to read lol but it's worth it.

[d spike]

something to think about
if it is a repost my god have mercy on my soul


A brief dialogue between a Brazilian theologist
Leonardo Boff and the Dalai Lama.

In a round table discussion about religion and freedom in which Dalai Lama and myself were participating at recess I maliciously, and also with interest, asked him:
“Your holiness, what is the best religion?”
I thought he would say:
“The Tibetan Buddhism” or “The oriental religions, much older than Chritianity”
Dalai Lama paused, smiled and looked me in the eyes …. which surprised me because I knew of the malice contained in my question.
He answered:
“The best religion is the one that gets you closest to God.
It is the one that makes you a better person.”

To get out of my embarassment with such a wise answer, I asked: “What is it that makes me better?”

He responded:
“Whatever makes you
more compassionate,
more sensible,
more detached,
more loving,
more humanitarian,
more responsible,
more ethical.”

“The religion that will do that for you is the best religion”

I was silent for a moment, marvelling and even today thinking of his wise and irrefutable response:
“I am not interested, my friend, about your religión or if you are religious or not.
“What really is important to me is your behaviour in front of your peers, family, work, community, and in front of the world.”
“Remember, the universe is the echo of our actions and our thoughts.”

[/thread]
Thanks hong kong phooey. There's a bottle of wine with your name on it whenever you choose to pass by.

[Sky]

Duane you really believe Red F. ?
He didn't build the blood back on his own, it was level saline ihmc
Ignorant people usually credit science to God when they don't understand it.

[Red Fraction]

Hong kong hear mg response to your post.

Every religion can get you closer to god,but can it save you?

[Red Fraction]

Duane you really believe Red F. ?
He didn't build the blood back on his own, it was level saline ihmc
Ignorant people usually credit science to God when they don't understand it.

What are the odds of someone getting in an accident,foot stitched up for a week "with some of the most corrosive, deadly metals,plastics & dirt" and not a single thing go wrong inside your foot,for a week then do surgery?

If you call that luck then id say you have issues.

[maj. tom]

Hong kong hear mg response to your post.

Every religion can get you closer to god,but can it save you?

save you from what? a giant killer octopus lurking in your toilet?

[sensiman]

Duane you really believe Red F. ?
He didn't build the blood back on his own, it was level saline ihmc
Ignorant people usually credit science to God when they don't understand it.

What are the odds of someone getting in an accident,foot stitched up for a week "with some of the most corrosive, deadly metals,plastics & dirt" and not a single thing go wrong inside your foot,for a week then do surgery?

If you call that luck then id say you have issues.

It's called good medicinal practice and care. Antibiotics and painkillers are usually involved, but not always since your body has mechanisms by which it can naturally deal with foreign bodies and substances.

[d spike]

But to spike and the others who say Christians and Christianity is madness etc and Christians were killers and fOrced their religion on others blah blah.

Thanks for not reading what I wrote. I think it was Cassandra of Greek mythology who was blessed with the gift of prophecy but cursed with no one ever believing anything she said. It seems that certain folks will always call my name in reference to my posting here,but never actually read what it is I post...
Where did I ever say "Christians and Christianity is madness"?
Christians were killers and fOrced their religion on others...?????? I said that? Which words did I use that confused you? I have always said that people use their religion to JUSTIFY their actions - are you incapable of understanding what I wrote? That means the action isn't the fault of the religion, but of the person who misapplied it.

It had been Rome’s policy, under a profession of reverence for the Bible, to keep it locked up in an unknown tongue and hidden away from the people.

More ignorance parading as truth.
The bible was written in Latin - the spoken language of the educated world at the time, hence the name "Vulgate" which means of the common tongue.
Books were expensive items and were secured then... not hidden. Few commoners could read, so access to the Bible wasn't an issue then.
The problem that arose was that people don't like change... and traditionalists tried to keep everything the way it was... It was this stand that caused problems within the Roman Catholic Church... This was finally dealt with in the Second Vatican Council in 1962 - some said it came way too late, others still say the changes were too extreme!

Please do proper research before you expound on something you clearly don't know about - and talking to folks who are just as empty-headed where facts are concerned, but full of conjecture based on spite, ignorance and paranoid fear, does not constitute research.

So dspike I just quoted from history "the great controversy" where the bible has been and to where christians has come.and what they have been through,to let men and women know. That without
god you shall surely die.

Lots to read lol but it's worth it.

That is just one point of view... and clearly, a biased one at that.
Why don't you take a look back at what I have written... you might surprise yourself.

[Red Fraction]

Duane you really believe Red F. ?
He didn't build the blood back on his own, it was level saline ihmc
Ignorant people usually credit science to God when they don't understand it.

What are the odds of someone getting in an accident,foot stitched up for a week "with some of the most corrosive, deadly metals,plastics & dirt" and not a single thing go wrong inside your foot,for a week then do surgery?

If you call that luck then id say you have issues.

It's called good medicinal practice and care. Antibiotics and painkillers are usually involved, but not always since your body has mechanisms by which it can naturally deal with foreign bodies and substances.

Is amazing how science can apply to everything, yet apply to nothing.

You get shot 3 times to your chest,"punctured lungs etc" yet stil you live. "you will apply science to that to right"?

Someone Stabs you in your heart and it stops beating,yet still you live.let me guess science to right ?

[Sky]

^ if you got shot 200 years ago with that same gun you'd be DOA.
So yes, it's medical science. It progressed over time.
Not discounting the works of God. There may be some cased where God has stepped in.
But 2 pages ago you said he couldn't get involved. Make up your mind please.

[Red Fraction]

Hong kong hear mg response to your post.

Every religion can get you closer to god,but can it save you?

save you from what? a giant killer octopus lurking in your toilet?

Fear not them that Can kill the body then no more.but fear ye him that is able to;when dead raise thee up and cast both body and soul into hell

[d spike]

Hong kong hear mg response to your post.

Every religion can get you closer to god,but can it save you?

So wait... a religion is what "saves" you?
Doesn't a man's salvation depend on his own choices? Or the religion to which he claims adherence?

[maj. tom]

Red Fraction I would like to learn all that you know. Tell me more. Will jesus save me if i don't believe in him?

I did this one for the LULZ

[Red Fraction]

Spike answer accordingly I did not say you said it.I simply said spike and those. You ne'er said it so you needs not reply to it.

I see you touched on Daniels prophecy hmm let me explain something in a while.

But my views are not biased, they ate taken from Ellen white "a prophet inspired by god" and so far non of what she has written, has ever been wrong or misapplied.

And you believe that spike wow, clearly you didn't do research.

You insulting man intelligence with them statements about the roman church.

Then you really don't know about Christianity and how it is tied to this whole world. Upon christianity rests this entire world rise and fall.

You need not believe me nor anyone for a matter of fact. But while I can I will post what I know to be true and fact,and if anyone says I know not of what I speak,then go research study and when you find it prove me wrong.

[Red Fraction]

Hong kong hear mg response to your post.

Every religion can get you closer to god,but can it save you?

So wait... a religion is what "saves" you?
Doesn't a man's salvation depend on his own choices? Or the religion to which he claims adherence?

By grace are ye saved through faith.not of works,it is the gift of God,Lest any man should boast.

[d spike]

Spike answer accordingly I did not say you said it.I simply said spike and those. You ne'er said it so you needs to reply to it.

"You ne'er said it so you needs to reply to it" I won't even go NEAR whatever this is supposed to mean...
Before you start to do proper study, I would advise you to learn the language you attempt to speak and write. You clearly don't even read what you write.

I see you touched on Daniels prophecy hmm let me explain something in a while.

I spoke on a historical matter. Forget vague "scriptural" references and talk about that which you KNOW. Any halfwit could twist scriptural prophecy to refer to some event in the past or future.

But my views are not biased, they ate taken from Ellen white "a prophet inspired by god" and so far non of what she has written, has ever been wrong or misapplied.

Your bubble is quite small. That dear lady has been shown to have been quite wrong and mistaken on many counts. I fear you have either drunk the Kool-aid or have never been allowed near history texts.

And you believe that spike wow, clearly you didn't do research.
You insulting man intelligence with them statements about the roman church.

Unbelievable. How blind could you be? Look it up... even Google, if you must.

Then you really don't know about Christianity and how it is tied to this whole world.

Like I said, look back at material I have posted.

You need not believe me nor anyone for a matter of fact. But while I can I will post what I know to be true and fact

Doesn't sound like much, I'm afraid.

and if anyone says I know not of what I speak,then go research study and when you find it prove me wrong.

Very well then. Fortunately, I don't have to "go research study" as I did so long ago. I hope you will read my future posts.

[sensiman]

Is amazing how science can apply to everything, yet apply to nothing.

You get shot 3 times to your chest,"punctured lungs etc" yet stil you live. "you will apply science to that to right"?

yes, if you knew anything about biology and the pathology of a gunshot inflicted punctured lung etc., then you would understand how one could survive


Someone Stabs you in your heart and it stops beating,yet still you live.let me guess science to right ?

are you stating that there was an actual case of someone who was stabbed in the heart which stopped beating, and they are still alive, even without medical intervention?

[d spike]

Every religion can get you closer to god,but can it save you?

So wait... a religion is what "saves" you?
Doesn't a man's salvation depend on his own choices? Or the religion to which he claims adherence?

By grace are ye saved through faith.not of works,it is the gift of God,Lest any man should boast.

Nice quote does not answer question.
Your question to hong kong phooey implied that not every religion can save you. WHY CAN'T YOU RESPOND TO THIS?

But my views are not biased, they ate taken from Ellen white "a prophet inspired by god" and so far non of what she has written, has ever been wrong or misapplied.

And you believe that spike wow, clearly you didn't do research.

and if anyone says I know not of what I speak,then go research study and when you find it prove me wrong.

Ellen G. White endorsed a false prophecy by William Miller that Christ would return, first in 1843 and then 1844. Miller repented when Christ didn't show up on his date but Ellen didn't want to be viewed as a false prophetess for endorsing him through her visions. The idea was concocted by one of her followers that the date was right, but the event was wrong. Ellen eagerly accepted this "out", and this explanation was offered to explain away the false prophecy:

Christ didn't come visibly to earth, but He, invisibly, in heaven, changed compartments from the Holy to the Most Holy in 1844 and began the work of "investigative judgment".

Ellen G. White said people alive in 1856 would be translated at the 2nd coming of Jesus. (Testimonies, V1, p 131,132).

She said in Testimonies for the Church, Volume 1, p. 259, that the United States would be "...humbled into the dust" by England during the Civil War.

You really won't be told about Ellen G. White's engaging in necromancy, communication with the dead, expressly forbidden by God in Deuteronomy 18:10-12

"There shall not be found among you anyone...who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For whoever does these things is detestable to the Lord..."

This particular necromancy occurred after the death of her husband James, whom she called "Father". She recounts the experience in a letter to her son published in "The Retirement Years" p. 161 - 163.

She begins her letter by stating that she was seeking God regarding her future,

"A few days since I was pleading with the Lord for light in regard to my duty"...

It is evident she believed this dream was in response to her prayers to God. James (whom she called "Father") appeared beside her as she was in a carriage. She reported he looked "very pale, but calm and composed". (After all, he was dead!)

She says,

"...I saw you die; I saw you buried. Has the Lord pitied me and let you come back...?"

We are not to have conversations with the dead, but Ellen and James converse back and forth about church matters and their health. At one point James foretells the future for Ellen,

"...Now, Ellen, calls will be made as they have been, desiring you to attend important meetings...".

James, her dead husband, goes on to tell her she must avoid taxing her strength by going to meetings and retire and write instead. He tells her "...Make this your first business".

Ellen now makes an agreement with her dead husband to stay in touch,

"Well, said I, James you are always to stay with me now and we will work together".

This would involve further communication with the dead. Ellen recounts that she then awoke and took the whole matter as being from the Lord in these words,

"...I feel no duty to go to Battle Creek...I have no duty to stand in General Conference. THE LORD FORBIDS ME. That is enough."

Did you know this fun quotation?
"...he who is weak in faith eats vegetables only..." (Romans 14:2)
Who should a Christian follow, St. Paul or Ellen G. White?
Ellen taught in Counsels on Diet ..on p. 390 (some editions) that
"...if we subsist largely upon the flesh of dead animals, we shall partake of their nature".
Paul wrote: "Eat anything that is sold in the meat market, without asking questions for conscience' sake." ( 1 Cor. 10:25).

Most of EGW's concerns over diet were in an effort to control what she considered to be an excessive sex drive in the male. She devoted endless pages to discussing "secret vice" (masturbation) and blamed the practice for a wide range of diseases. Here, in "Solemn Appeal" page 12 are a few of the diseases said to be caused by "secret vice":

...dyspepsia, spinal complaint, headache, epilepsy, impaired eyesight, palpitation of the heart, pain in the side, bleeding at the lungs, spasms of the heart and lungs, diabetes, incontinence of urine, fluor albus or whites, inflammation of the urinary organs... rheumatism, affected perspiration, consumption, asthma, catarrah, polypus of the heart, affection of the bones, fevers, ..etc. etc.

The cure for secret vice was even funnier. The perpetrator was to sit in a sitz bath at as low a temperature as possible. At the same time, he was to have a hot foot bath, while applying cold cloths to his forehead. He was also to wear an abdominal bandage or wet girdle at night "to good advantage".

She concludes, "Cool bathing of the parts affected is also beneficial".

Thanks to Ellen White's influence, the Kellogg brothers were inspired to develop cold corn flakes, as hot porridge could "heat the blood" with undesirable results!

She sternly warned against using feather beds for the same reasons, but a letter from her asks someone to send her her featherbed! (EGW Vol 3, p. 341).

She also developed a "reform dress" on instructions from God, which was a bulky affair with pants under a long dress. She gave up on wearing hers finally, and so did the other women, after years of suffering discomfort.

Other assorted nonsense included Angels needing golden cards as gate passes to get in and out of heaven. (Early Writings p. 37-39),

She also "travelled" to other planets in her visions, and also claimed to have met Enoch (more necromancy). (EGW: The Early Years Vol.1 p. 114; p.157).

She taught that certain races of men are the result of amalgamation between man and beast. (SG Vol 3, p. 64,75). Which races?

Her silliness extended to wigs as well. Any woman daring to wear one would "...lose their reason and go hopelessly insane". (Christian Mothers, # 2, p. 121).

Shall I go on?