The Religion Discussion

[Ronaldo95163]

Sorry what did you say there Atheist?

[stickman]

Sorry what did you say there Atheist?

Is the logic too difficult for you to comprehend?

[Daran]

Sorry what did you say there Atheist?

Is the logic too difficult for you to comprehend?

LOL why bother? He is one of the stupidest posters on 2nr...

[Ronaldo95163]

Another stupid Atheist?
You guys just keep popping up don't ya?

[stickman]

Another stupid Atheist?
You guys just keep popping up don't ya?

To resort to insults and not have a meaningful discussion...

and you're calling me stupid?

[chasemeifyoucan]

Sorry what did you say there Atheist?

Is the logic too difficult for you to comprehend?

LOL why bother? He is one of the stupidest and most racist posters on 2nr...

and just so you know Ronaldo95163/gracist
, atheism is not a religion so it does not need to be capitalised.

and unless you have something positive to contribute, stop spamming the thread, your attention whoreism is epicly annoying now

[Ronaldo95163]

I'm one of the most racist posters on tuner? Because of my taste in music? Try hard loser....I still hate those genres of music BTW....

You actually annoy me alot as well

Why don't you guys say something to MG Man

baahahahahahahahaha
what a crockofshit

Was that called for?

BTW If I really got the name change because of the "Your a racist" comments I would have changed my avatar and my profile information as well Ronaldo95163 is a Username I use all the time. Google it if you wish....I have nothing to hide

[sMASH]

^^ god of love, not of force. but he did send his son to die on the cross, did he not? was that love or force?

[Sky]

and unless you have something positive to contribute, stop spamming the thread, your attention whoreism is epicly annoying now

Doh worry, this is Duane favourite thread

[Ronaldo95163]

Wait so no one saw the posts where Daran was claiming that Jesus was a homosexual in that other thread? I take it that that was in no way disrespectful to the Christian Community along with the other disrespectful posts in here by other tuners?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

I was going to clean the thread up - but for the sake of future readers, I think the behaviour in here speaks volumes for both sides of the argument.

now PLEASE let us continue with the open minded, constructive and educational discussion like adults.

[Sky]

[Red Fraction]

Sky

God had no choice but to banish Adam and eve from the garden of eden,if they had eaten of the tree of life "lest they put forth their hand and eat of the tree of life and live forever" I they had done this,then NO ONE would die they would have become as god never ending. Hence he put them out "could you imagine Goliath and Adam stil alive today.

God did not destroy Sodom and Gomorrah their Sins did. Sin when it is finished Bringeth forth death.
But how the bible was written,in mans layman language it reads out to look like God destroyed them.

Mans own sins brought about the flood. "you say only 8 were saved in the ark" how is that gods fault,? Noah preached for 120 years and no one listened. But when the doors were shut and rain began to fall they suddenly realized it was too late.

You are missed informed sky God did not kill his son. The sins for the whole of mankind killed him. That's why the centurion pierced him with the spear. Because to be hung on a cross you would take days to die sometimes more.

Satan thought he could succeed in tempting Jesus,but he relied on his fathers strength to gain the victory.

That senario you speak of is pretty foolish IMO. If you have a gun waitin you already done commit murder already "premeditated"

Well on that day I highly doubt you will say that,but keep talking don't arrange your judgement before hand.

Most Christians stop because,they lose the will, but what I type is not for you only but all to see,as Duane said so people can see,read, understand and they will be able to see truth in darkness,and make an informed choice.

Sky what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

[d spike]

A Christian who does not understand the concept of God being 3 in 1 does not know where he stands.

I'm sorry, but that is not so at all. The beauty of Christianity is that it is based on acceptance, not understanding - a truism that can be said of other religions too, though ... One doesn't have to understand, but only believe.

One God three functions. Father,son and holy spirit.

which is why even many Christians don't fully understand - and thus can't properly explain - the Trinity concept.

Thank you for giving one of the better known examples of a misconception of the Trinity.
It isn't a matter of Function - that is Sabellianism, a third century heresy.

every time i ask for an explanation of the trinity, i don't get it. the best attempts i got were rudimentary analogies for some object with three parts. i need to understand how it works 'mechanically', if i may.

Well, now you know why you didn't get a good answer. As far as the "mechanics" of it... I trust I will do my best.

SPIKE, HOW YUH GOH LEAVE MEH WITH THAT CLIFF HANGER JUSSS SOOO, BAI????
even self if yuh have to pm meh the explanation, juss doh leave meh out.

Consider these statements, compare them to what you believe... then respond - remember to use logic, not faith.

It wasn't meant as a "cliff-hanger".
I have been doing this for far too long to come here and set myself up as a target for certain folks to spit at.
I need feedback in order to know if I have been understood. As I said before, there are key concepts to be understood in order for the concept of the Trinity itself to be explained... otherwise an attempt at over-simplification would end up with me making the same mistake as Red Fraction, and so many others too, by giving an improper explanation. (Hence the reason for so many heresies that sprang up concerning this very topic.)

i don't fear new knowledge, i want it. i feel i have a good appreciation of hinduism in general to accept them as they are. but christianity, and the trinity, that needs to be explained.

Understand that "acceptance" is not required on your part, in order for understanding to occur.
This nonsense about converting someone who is doing his best to find his way back to God using the very tools God gave him (culture, upbringing, experience) is a waste of time and energy. The life experiences that the good guy upstairs enabled you to have is meant to mean something in your relationship with him - and not as so much flotsam to be brushed aside by an exuberant neo-religious zealot.

[brams112]

How do you know all that you are saying is true red?where is the proof written to go back on,as far as i can recall smart men change writings,verses and so on to get their act in line with a thing called revised edition.

[Red Fraction]

You see sky all that I say to is nonsense and foolishness because you,choose not to understand what I have written.

Do you or we survive of our self?
Which of us taking thought can add one cubit to our hair?
If we can't do that which is least,then why worry about that which is great?
For god knows what we have need of

Sky my wish is that everyone turns to god,before trinidads cup of iniquity is filled.
As we seeing everyday it gettin more and more filled "want to make abortions legal,gay rights etc"
God says before we were born he knew us and sanctified us"

So answer me this a religion has a statue and says this is our god!!

But it neither sees hears or knows anything.

So how then can one say our god is god when it cannot sustain life it cannot feed you it cannot clothe you.
But th god who we can't see gives us all our hearts desire. Yet me denounce him as wicked,tyrant, fake,unreal, weak etc

Can a car made to use gas run on no gas
Sonwe humans were made to function with god his is our gas line

Thou believest there is one god,thou doest well.the devils do too and tremble.

Sky Jesus loves you,the whole world,but his ways are higher than our ways.we serve a Living god.
Salassie is dead ghandi is dead muhammad is dead etc. Can they save you?

The dead knows nothing.

[brams112]

a dead man can't hear you neither boi red.

[Red Fraction]

Dspike can you accept something you don't understand?

Why would your comment suggest that Christianity is based on blind faith ?

[d spike]

A Spirit is a being that knows and loves, and has power.

i understand thus far,so is the spirt like a soul?
and how did the trinity come abt in christianity?

Please bear in mind that people (who don't know better) love to repeat things that sound nice... and then believe it to be true, simply because it is oft repeated.
A soul is the life-force of a creature.
The human is a remarkable thing: it is a being whose soul is also a spirit.

The concept of the Trinity was formalized in the early Church, but it is based on concepts that were accepted long before. Why not do some research on your own, then respond? (And asking someone who doesn't know is not considered research, eh. )

[d spike]

If God has given guidelines on owning slaves, who is man to say slavery is now immoral?

Because of the stubborn and hardness of the former generations hearts, God gave them over to be captured and taken into bondage. Have you not heard "ancient isreal & the 70 years in Babylon,the isrealites and the king of egypt"

Please let us be logical. This is not an answer to Duane's question.

[Red Fraction]

Smash in order to redeem fallen man,it required a perfect sacrifice.
If you read the spirit of prophecy you would see where jesus went to his father and said "father I will die for fallen man to redeem them unto you"

John3:16
For god so loved the world,that he gave his only begotten so.that who so ever believeth on him should not perish but have everlasting life.

While i agree with you brams.but as Peter said we have a sure word of prophecy.have you ever read the spirit of prophecy? If you had half the questions you are asking would be answered.

The kjv is the most accurate and in changed version. Those new ones the words are changed up and will,mislead you into all error.

Also Jesus said I lay down my life that u may take it up again.
So god is alive and in heaven.

Smash your concept of god worries me

[d spike]

Ok slimshaney

Cool story

In 2009 I was in a bike accident on the highway...

...If I didn't have faith all now I'd be a dead man
Cause I was already on deaths door step

I wonder if there was anyone from any other religion who has a cool story?

I wonder if their faith in their God led to such a miracle recovery?...........if it did, does that validate their God also?

I wonder if those who had such a miracle recovery and believes in no God, to whom do we aloocate the miracle?

Mamoo, is Red F. saying that all those people who die in accidents are lacking in faith????

[Sky]

You see sky all that I say to is nonsense and foolishness because you,choose not to understand what I have written.

Do you or we survive of our self?
Which of us taking thought can add one cubit to our hair?
If we can't do that which is least,then why worry about that which is great?
For god knows what we have need of

Sky my wish is that everyone turns to god,before trinidads cup of iniquity is filled.
As we seeing everyday it gettin more and more filled "want to make abortions legal,gay rights etc"
God says before we were born he knew us and sanctified us"

So answer me this a religion has a statue and says this is our god!!

But it neither sees hears or knows anything.

So how then can one say our god is god when it cannot sustain life it cannot feed you it cannot clothe you.
But th god who we can't see gives us all our hearts desire. Yet me denounce him as wicked,tyrant, fake,unreal, weak etc

Can a car made to use gas run on no gas
Sonwe humans were made to function with god his is our gas line

Thou believest there is one god,thou doest well.the devils do too and tremble.

Sky Jesus loves you,the whole world,but his ways are higher than our ways.we serve a Living god.
Salassie is dead ghandi is dead muhammad is dead etc. Can they save you?

The dead knows nothing.

Sky

God had no choice but to banish Adam and eve from the garden of eden,if they had eaten of the tree of life "lest they put forth their hand and eat of the tree of life and live forever" I they had done this,then NO ONE would die they would have become as god never ending. Hence he put them out "could you imagine Goliath and Adam stil alive today.

God did not destroy Sodom and Gomorrah their Sins did. Sin when it is finished Bringeth forth death.
But how the bible was written,in mans layman language it reads out to look like God destroyed them.

Mans own sins brought about the flood. "you say only 8 were saved in the ark" how is that gods fault,? Noah preached for 120 years and no one listened. But when the doors were shut and rain began to fall they suddenly realized it was too late.

You are missed informed sky God did not kill his son. The sins for the whole of mankind killed him. That's why the centurion pierced him with the spear. Because to be hung on a cross you would take days to die sometimes more.

Satan thought he could succeed in tempting Jesus,but he relied on his fathers strength to gain the victory.

That senario you speak of is pretty foolish IMO. If you have a gun waitin you already done commit murder already "premeditated"

Well on that day I highly doubt you will say that,but keep talking don't arrange your judgement before hand.

Most Christians stop because,they lose the will, but what I type is not for you only but all to see,as Duane said so people can see,read, understand and they will be able to see truth in darkness,and make an informed choice.

Sky what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

You assume you know me. You already judged me because I questioned your words. If you read the entire thread you'd realise that you're just another one of them with a new interpretation of the bible. And as I said. You have the most twisted version. I didn't choose not to understand, I chose not to be gullible. I chose not to just say ok and listen, like you did someday in hopes that your death won't be the end.
You achieve faith when you question everything. If you don't then the slightest breeze will sway you.

And again, if it's premeditated murder, then God is dong it, because he knows the outcome already.

[brams112]

How many of those books you speak of are true red?are they revised editions?also do you believe all that you are saying is true to the exact words,also you are emotional,i have had people give me those books that they pass around distributing for years they say one thing and after a few years they say something else because they discovered what they were saying was either true or lies.

[Red Fraction]

D spike ecclesiastes says "and man knoweth not His time,as the fishes that are caught in a net.
If a car flip and hit your own on the next side of the highway.

Man knoweth not his time. as fish that are caught In a net
A speeding car crosses the median And takes your life away in an instant

My response to duanes question was answered. It just didn't make sense to you that's all.

[brams112]

We call death by that form you speak about boi red a quick pick.

[Red Fraction]

Brams I know what I read is true. Because I have never seen what I have always known and stil knowing ever change.unlike other religions everyday they discovering something new. Like what now the bible has hidden passages now that every few years it has to be revised and reconstructed

Sky I havnt judged you. The words will not me.
Lean not to your own understanding.'so I use the bible it will guide you into all truth.

Anybody who can prove that the bible is a water of time "with proper proof against it" I will give up. But since that will Never happen,I'm not worried about it

Bring your quran,Gita,ramaya or what have you and lets compare scripture with scripture.

[brams112]

So red you dont read the bible but believe in jesus?anyway we all have to die,we just don't know when,we also have to pay for our sins right here.Anyway in one line you are talking about hidden passages and revision but will stand by it,how many versions of the bible there are?in miami last year i saw a mormons version,but the commandments were more than ten.

[d spike]

Dspike can you accept something you don't understand?
Why would your comment suggest that Christianity is based on blind faith ?

Christianity is NOT based on blind faith, but just faith. This last comment of yours sums up the main reason why this thread is almost 300 pages long. (It also shows that you don't understand the meaning of either "faith" or "blind faith".)
Before you deny this, and spout a whole long diatribe out of some e-book to support that denial, Faith is the ACCEPTANCE of that which CANNOT be proven... so where does that leave your understanding of "blind faith"?

When the people turned from Jesus in revulsion after he told them they needed to eat his flesh to gain eternal life, he turned to Peter and the others and asked them if they too would be leaving. Peter responded, "To whom would we go? You have the message of eternal life."
DOES THAT MEAN PETER UNDERSTOOD HIM? OF COURSE NOT. That poor fisherman was just as befuddled as everyone else... but he believed that whatever Jesus said, HE WOULD UNDERSTAND IN TIME.
(There is an old Christian school of thought that says that at the end of time when God's plan is finally explained to us, we still would not understand... but we would hopefully understand our individual roles.)

An old lecturer used to refer to a malaise of my people as "two-storied ignorance": They don't know, and they don't know they don't know.
This unfortunate problem becomes compounded when you scrape together some odds and ends of scriptures and sermons, and fool yourself into thinking that you (and your belief) have the answers. Then find a soap-box and expound and advertise your ignorance... creating more problems than solutions, creating division and derision.

That is why the following questions have been asked repeatedly in differing ways here - and none of your ilk (who helped create the misconceptions that spawned these very queries) has yet to answer... not counting the spouting of vague and voluminous scriptural quotations that seem to be neo-Christian's self-defense mechanism...

Really? Cannot use force?
Evicted his 1st two humans.
Bun down a whole city of gays.
Flooded the entire Earth and let one family live only.
Need I go on?????????
2. Satan killed Christ? Really? So he came to Earth on a vacation and happened to land on a cross? He was sent here to die for the human race's sins. And God killed him. God sent him on that task to be killed.

Scenario. You see your kids in the road and you have a gun in your hand. Someone approaches them to hurt them, and you stand there and watch them hurt your kids just so you can shoot the person after the fact. That's the love you speak about?

And if there is a judgement day, not only would I repeat those lines, but I'll have a lot of questions for God. And if they cannot answer, I will accept that we were royally trolled by a supreme being, we are at his/her mercy and were all along, we were doomed from the beginning anyway and just accept my fate.

[d spike]

You achieve faith when you question...

Nicely put, Sky...

The problem with faith is understanding it. Like everything else we have, it can grow, or diminish. Though faith seems to grow with application it isn't a muscle that grows DUE to flexing - a mistaken belief held by many, not just fundamentalists. Faith's seeming growth through application actually takes place due to consideration/reflection of past actions and consequences (the use of critical and analytical thinking)... NOT to the application itself - hence its direct link to human logic and intelligence.

Here is where fundamentalists part ways with reality. Faith grows with doubt. Only when you question, when you ask 'why', can your faith truly develop as the answer becomes apparent. The answer may take years, decades... but that is part of your journey. Sometimes, a negative answer seems to diminish or eradicate what faith is there, but that is not so. To search is to find... to find is to continue looking. That is our nature.
Fundamentalists refute this. Faith to them is the opposite of doubt - to doubt is to fail, to fall... To be totally adamant allows presumption to rear its head in your life, accompanied by blindedness.
Faith is not the roadway... it's the light you use to see your way more clearly.