The Religion Discussion

[Humes]

How did you arrive at the thought that the quran has no contradictions?

The Quran say so!

[crazybalhead]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!!

Carryorn...

[AdamB]

AdamB - stop and reflect on the manner in which you present information.

I have a slight feeling that you are turning more people away from Islam than opening them up to it....

ALLAH IS THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE GOD TO BE WORSHIPPED

GOD DOES NOT HAVE AND IS NOT IN NEED OF A SON, WIFE, ETC

THE QURAN IS THE WORD OF ALLAH, FREE OF ERRORS

THE QURAN DOES NOT CONFLICT WITH SCIENCE BUT CONTAINS DETAILS OF SCIENTIFIC MIRACLES

THE QURAN HAS MADE ALL OTHER PREVIOUS BOOKS OBSOLETE

MUHAMMAD COULD NOT READ AND WRITE, WAS NOT SCHOOLED IN ANY OTHER RELIGION, THE QURAN WAS SENT DOWN TO HIM BY ALLAH VIA ANGEL JIBREEL.

^ Those are all opinions.... either yours or people from your religion.
WRT to your 1st opinion, about 5 billion people in the world will disagree with you. Hard to believe if Allah is the 1 true god he allows much more people to not worship him than worship him.

Not hard to believe, if you believe the "story" of prophet Noah from the Bible and Quran...how many of those people were saved on the ark and how many were drowned in the flood? How many years did Noah preach to his people and invite them to GOD / Allah?

What did Noah say at the end when the doors of the ark was closed and the rain came pouring down? maybe Megadoc or dspike can answer this?

Belief is the only differentiable factor between any religion....you believe in Allah and Qur'an and you defend it...Megadoc believes in the Bible and Christ and he defends that,
Haven't seen much hardcore Hindus in here but every now and then Crossdrilled does a good job in explaining stuff on Hinduism and defends it.

There is no scientific proof any of the religions are correct. You use a single book to prove a religion's existence. The book is proof that the book is right?

BTW....I am all for persons having a belief and religion but I am against anyone claiming superiority of their respective religion and fighting it down as the only way.

OK I will post what Noah said (Megadoc can confirm if it is in the Bible): Quran Ch71 (Nuh / Noah):
26 And Nuh (Noah) said: "My Lord! Leave not one of the disbelievers on the earth!

27 "If You leave them, they will mislead Your slaves, and they will beget none but wicked disbelievers.

Islam makes the point that muslims believe in all of the prophets and revealed books. However, we say that the original revelations in language and script have not been preserved due to the passage of time and languages becoming obsolete and changes (corrections they call it) by man.

Two things that directly oppose each other cannot both be true or correct.

Our point is that what exists today has been changed and therefore not reliable. How many versions are there in the English language alone and why? Where are the original scripts and who is in possession of it (if it exists) that the Christian community as one united body can try to agree on a translation that will suffice for any english speaking person?

[AdamB]

How did you arrive at the thought that the quran has no contradictions?

The Quran say so!

Boy look we getting ppl to think about Quran and type it too! Try to get a copy and read it nah...

[stickman]

How did you arrive at the thought that the quran has no contradictions?

The Quran say so!

Boy look we getting ppl to think about Quran and type it too! Try to get a copy and read it nah...

I don't think he's a fan of fiction...

[RBphoto]

^^^ Sonny, I did my shahadda business. I did it because I have a multireligious upbringing (Hindu and Christian), and thought that studying another religion in depth would only enlighten me. I felt dumber for the experience. I re-christened as a Hindu not too long after not because I am all that religious, but to make a point to the in- laws. The jhandi patch in front my house is always a sore point withthem

I personally find that that the Quran is very simplistic and I can see how an illiterate person could spew it out. Just plain talk (do this and not this) and rules. Many of the "scientific facts" were actually expounded by Greek philosophers in that same century, and coppied, with grave errors (such as semen being kept in the lower abdomen). Furthurmore, the Bible is coppied. If Mohammed was illiterate, how could he be sure the guy writing was writing what he said? If a great work of literature like the Bhagvad Gita and the Ramayan could be made by man, then definitely the Quoran could be written by man, with the help of copy and paste from the bible... another great work of man.

Islam was written for a certain type of lawless people, to regimen them and make them useful to society. This was made for wandering nomads, who were unhygenic, lazy and morally corrupt with all the free time on their hands. The men basically bulling dong whole day with all the women and female children in their tent and living like swine. Islam was meant to bring order to lawless depraved peoples, thus it controls every aspect of a person's life for every second of the day. It was not meant to govern modern living in a civilized state.

[Red Fraction]

Dizzy umm pertaining to your previous post about "persons trying to say that their religion is the only way"

When God said I am the way the truth and the life. Or
I am he that liveth forever and ever amen which was which is to come the almighty.
Before you were I am.

Does these mean the god is fighting down superiority or trying to force his religion on us.

[Red Fraction]

So uh Adamb since a creature cannot create itself because it never existed before, who created God then?

[sMASH]

i started typing this morning and only now finished. this was to some quote about some ting:


but, if u knew the answers and their severity and absoluteness, that then the purpose of choice is removed.

i mean, there may be some doors. each door may have different prizes or nothing. to get to each door u must take a different path. if u knew which door has which prize u want, and u knew which path would lead to that door, then it would be obvious. if the way is clear, u would know exactly what to do.
but if u have to figure out the way, and think about all that u encounter, u then utilize all the faculties u were given, and make use of the world around u, for a purpose greater than mere sustenance.

there is no purpose for choice if u know the way absolutely. there is no purpose for the world if u are sure of your destiny. if u are, then just cut the crap and go one time!

[AdamB]

So uh Adamb since a creature cannot create itself because it never existed before, who created God then?

Maj tom,
I need your help to do an experimental simulation of what existed before the big bang to present a thesis for Red Fraction.

Red Fraction,
What do you think existed before, your theory?

I'm serious, does carbon dating of living things indicate that they definitely had a beginning and so could not always have existed (time=-infinity)??

[Red Fraction]

Umm

God Is god alone

He has a son "only begotten" hence he sent him "u really think he will send himself"

I beg to differ on the Quran being error free

Where does "scientific miracles" fit in with gods miracles

Can the Quran contend with the bible with regards to accuracy and concurrence

Why would god give an unlearnt man his words to pen who could neither read or write

[AdamB]

^^^ Sonny, I did my shahadda business. I did it because I have a multireligious upbringing (Hindu and Christian), and thought that studying another religion in depth would only enlighten me. I felt dumber for the experience. I re-christened as a Hindu not too long after not because I am all that religious, but to make a point to the in- laws. The jhandi patch in front my house is always a sore point withthem
You obviously did it for the wrong reason, so how could you be enlightened. Did someone of knowledge in the religion teach you?

I personally find that that the Quran is very simplistic and I can see how an illiterate person could spew it out. Just plain talk (do this and not this) and rules. Did you study the Arabic language? If not, you can't understand the complexity of it's meaning and poetry.
Also, is it that you prefer guidance that you can't understand? So simple that you could not understand! Or was it that the rules were too much? Or was it that you prefer a religion that would make you one with GOD in the end instead of being a slave to be obedient to HIMMany of the "scientific facts" were actually expounded by Greek philosophers in that same century, and coppied, with grave errors (such as semen being kept in the lower abdomen). Furthurmore, the Bible is coppied. If Mohammed was illiterate, how could he be sure the guy writing was writing what he said? The Quran was NOT written down on paper during the lifetime of Muhammad, it was inscribed in the minds of muslims, memorized word for word, letter for letter. If a great work of literature like the Bhagvad Gita and the Ramayan could be made by man, then definitely the Quoran could be written by man, with the help of copy and paste from the bible... another great work of man.

Islam was written for a certain type of lawless people, to regimen them and make them useful to society. This was made for wandering nomads, who were unhygenic, lazy and morally corrupt with all the free time on their hands.These nomads excelled in science and medicine during the middle ages. Look at them now, building the highest skyscrapers on the face of the earth!! The men basically bulling dong whole day with all the women and female children in their tent and living like swine. Islam was meant to bring order to lawless depraved peoples, thus it controls every aspect of a person's life for every second of the day. IT IS A RELIGION THAT IT'S FOLLOWERS ACTUALLY OBEY GOD AND NOT THE FANCIES OF MAN!! It was not meant to govern modern living in a civilized state.

[Red Fraction]

All these complexities and monstrocities last time I read "god said his words are plain to them that have understanding"

So why would one go on ah pilgrimage to experience where Jesus walked etc?
That's like trying to feel how a pregnant woman does feel during child birth.

I think you "Adamb" needs to read the beatitudes and learn a thing or two about how god works,

[d spike]

I'm sure ... dspike... never heard some of the concepts and positions of Islam that I have stated.

Sorry to pop your bubble, lad, but you are just rehashing old arguments (many of which have been posted here before - but you didn't check that, did you?)
I have been doing this for quite a long time... and as I have pointed out before, studying only one group's point of view of the divine is rather narrow-minded.
If you had looked back, this would have been made clear to you... but you had no wish to do so, and rushed headlong into a gunfight with only a clasp-knife.

Islam unfortunately encourages fundamentalist thinking, which is why you and megadoc have so much in common. Fundamentalism destroys man's ability to think for himself, as it doesn't allow one to apply the rationale behind it to situations (which demands an UNDERSTANDING of the concepts/reasoning on which the religion is based) but only requires the memorization of laws to plaster over the sores of life.

Speak of what is good about Islam. Show where it is in agreement with other major religions.
Don't attack other religions. It really puts you in a bad light, and doesn't help your cause either. As far as I can recall, sMASH never behaved in a crass manner, even when faced with foolishness - you would do well to take a page out of his book (a good few chapters, actually )

If you are TRULY interested in drawing men to God, then change your approach. More flies are caught with molasses than vinegar.
Otherwise, all you are demonstrating is your inability to understand others - or that all you are interested in is wagging your jaw.

Cheers

[AdamB]

All these complexities and monstrocities last time I read "god said his words are plain to them that have understanding"

So why would one go on ah pilgrimage to experience where Jesus walked etc?
That's like trying to feel how a pregnant woman does feel during child birth.

I think you "Adamb" needs to read the beatitudes and learn a thing or two about how god works,

GRASPING AT STRAWS ARE WE!!

btw for the serious participants on this thread:
The Arabic word ALLAH is unlike the english word GOD in that it cannot be pluralized and carry suffixes equivalent to GOD-S, GOD-FATHER, GOD-SON, GOD-DESS, GOD-MOTHER. Also, one can't say A GOD, the language does not support it

I'm not saying that historically that ALLAH was the only word that was used in all languages but what was equivalent to it.

[d spike]

Still quibbling over God's name, eh? Why don't you respond to what I said on the topic?

[Humes]

A Christian and a Muslim walk into a bar...

[sMASH]

hmmn, crossdrilled is ah next crindulim

[Kasey]

I'm sure ... dspike... never heard some of the concepts and positions of Islam that I have stated.

Sorry to pop your bubble, lad, but you are just rehashing old arguments (many of which have been posted here before - but you didn't check that, did you?)
I have been doing this for quite a long time... and as I have pointed out before, studying only one group's point of view of the divine is rather narrow-minded.
If you had looked back, this would have been made clear to you... but you had no wish to do so, and rushed headlong into a gunfight with only a clasp-knife.

Islam unfortunately encourages fundamentalist thinking, which is why you and megadoc have so much in common. Fundamentalism destroys man's ability to think for himself, as it doesn't allow one to apply the rationale behind it to situations (which demands an UNDERSTANDING of the concepts/reasoning on which the religion is based) but only requires the memorization of laws to plaster over the sores of life.

Speak of what is good about Islam. Show where it is in agreement with other major religions.
Don't attack other religions. It really puts you in a bad light, and doesn't help your cause either. As far as I can recall, sMASH never behaved in a crass manner, even when faced with foolishness - you would do well to take a page out of his book (a good few chapters, actually )

If you are TRULY interested in drawing men to God, then change your approach. More flies are caught with molasses than vinegar.
Otherwise, all you are demonstrating is your inability to understand others - or that all you are interested in is wagging your jaw.

Cheers

ur turn Adam

Side note:
Please learn to de-cypher what is Sarcasm, and literal. We will start with that. More to come.

[Chimera]

allyuh go ahead yes

it was funny when it was megadoc but them muslim does move dred.

jihad jihad in allyuh mc

[brams112]

Why does some religion bash other religions just to make theirs look good or sound good?we all have to live among each other,i sometimes hear seven day adventists bad talk hinduism,they mostly do this,sometimes i am tempted to put them straight,thing is in my field putting one of them straight will make me look bad in the eyes of their fellow church members who knows me,so i just tolerate them,tolerance is better than igorance.

[d spike]

A Christian and a Muslim walk into a bar...

BOUDOUP!

[d spike]

Why does some religion bash other religions just to make theirs look good or sound good?

It's the easier, more human path.
If you consider the values taught by the world's religions and the effort required to maintain them, then it is far easier to engage in some good, ol' mauvais langue, than to set an example to others by living by those very virtues...

[pyung99]

Why does some religion bash other religions just to make theirs look good or sound good?we all have to live among each other,i sometimes hear seven day adventists bad talk hinduism,they mostly do this,sometimes i am tempted to put them straight,thing is in my field putting one of them straight will make me look bad in the eyes of their fellow church members who knows me,so i just tolerate them,tolerance is better than igorance.

i don't know about 7th day adventists teachings, but i learned to try to be more like Jesus. and Jesus would never allow such vile talk to continue. nip it in the bud next time, stay true to your good beliefs. you are fearful of doing the right thing? tolerance of evil is never an option.

[Red Fraction]

Adam god was always there. The spirit of god moved upon the waters.

To understand god's beginning you need to understand the mystery of godliness "hence god said great is the mystery of godliness"

God himself said before thou was I am. Meaning he was always there science is now catching up with the bible.

Take heed that no man deceive you and leave you with false hope.

Points to note read well;

The bible teaches:
Salvation is of god alone
I and my father are 1, he that hath seen me hath seen the father
There is only one god "father son & holy spirit" each his their OWN function.
Hence god could not come as god to die for man.
God died and rose again "I lay down my life that I may take it up again"
By faith are ye saved through grace. And that not of yourself it is the gift of god. Not by works lest any man should boast.
The dead knows nothing, it'd appointed man once to die after this the judgement

Those are just a few

The Quran teaches;
No devil but jins
This jihad thing ???? Why force love is kind patient pure etc
Muhammad was so great a prophetic man "but he is dead eh" take note god is not
That there is only one god no son no holy ghost
Treat others good live good and all is well

Why listen to false hope friends no man can save you.so why confess your sins to him ?
No amount of holy water can wash away your sins.
Why travel al around the world trying to travel the path that Jesus trod when salvation is free to all that seeketh it.
An idol god thing made of stone cannot save you.
How can one feed something that hears not sees not knows not can that save you in time of trouble?

To the ones who claims salassie hail from the lion of the tribe of Judah, for one to claim this one must exist before existence existed.

I don't need to bash a religion to know it is false just look at their practices, one CANNOT learn to speak in tongues.that alone comes from god and it requires TWO things an interpreter and the holy ghost. It works like this

Read the. New testament on the day of pentecost 27 Nations of languages were gathered to hear Peter preach and everyone heard the gospel in his own language. And Peter only preached once, the holy spirit interpreted the words of Peter as fast as it came out an every man heard it in his own language.it is a gift of the holy spirit.

Men can't cast out demons only the holy spirit working threw man can. Satan is a mighty foe and will stop at no lengths to make sure all mankind is lost. He knows his time is short

We are living we are dwelling in a grand an awful time. Weather we believe it or not look around us

Rain in dry season,unprecedented and unpredictable rainfall,planes crashing,wars and roumors of wars,blasphemers of god,ships sinking,men and women doing that which is unseemly,crime blood everywhere,landslides earthquakes in land and sea,floods,avalanches,famine,droughts, nations saying peace peace and the sudden destruction.

But the end is not yet.

Has any other book beside the bible clearly pointed out what is to be in plain and unstandable form.
Has any other book detail events so clear as to leave no doubt in ones mind

Muhammad dead
Ghandi dead
Mother theresa dead
Salassie dead
God the almighty liveth forever

[Red Fraction]

Brams112 seventh day Adventists should know better. And it is good for you to note when you hear them speaking these things kindly ask them "is that of god?"

A 7th day Adventist supposed to be different in many ways but we dint and hardly ever practice what we preach. But I say this that is about to change very soon. Believe it or not the time is soon at hand and every man shall choose weather salvation or eternal damnation.

A word of advice
Things are not going to get better in trinidad. It will only get worse because the land is filled with evil.
No hanging no amount of police can stop the bloodshed only God can, but since mankind don't want that well we know what comes next.

As in the days of Noah so shall it be in the end,
For god so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believe on him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Adam if god did not have a son then jhim 3:16 should be read as

For Allah so loved the world that he sent himself that whosoever believe on him etc etc.

Also at getsemene and Calvary Allah would be praying to himself out loud when he said "father forgive them for they know not what they do" or in your terms "myself forgive them"
He also said "father if it be possible let this cup pass from me not my will but thy will be done" or in your case "myself let this cup pass from me not as I will but I will"
So he being on earth was he also in heaven at the same time too ?? Praying to himself outloud?

[d spike]

Take heed that no man deceive you and leave you with false hope.

Points to note read well;

The bible teaches:
...

Soooo...
...you are going to quote biblical writings to support Christian dogma to counter statements involving the quoting of koranic writings to support Islamic dogma...

Round and round the Merry-go-round,
the monkey chased the weasel...

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

interesting video on critical thinking

[d spike]

Adam if god did not have a son then jhim 3:16 should be read as

For Allah so loved the world that he sent himself that whosoever believe on him etc etc.

Also at getsemene and Calvary Allah would be praying to himself out loud when he said "father forgive them for they know not what they do" or in your terms "myself forgive them"
He also said "father if it be possible let this cup pass from me not my will but thy will be done" or in your case "myself let this cup pass from me not as I will but I will"
So he being on earth was he also in heaven at the same time too ?? Praying to himself outloud?

Where did logic disappear to?
Red Fraction, your argument is based on the acceptance of Jesus as God's son - a concept that Muslims find unthinkable.
Your argument needs to be based on concepts that adamB agrees with. That way, you will actually get him to see and understand your point of view - but not necessarily agree with it.
The art of debate is dying, I fear.
AdamB's arguments are illogical - so you attempt the same illogical technique to convince him?

I don't need to bash a religion to know it is false just look at their practices

What practices are you referring to?
Praying five times a day?
Cleansing yourself before prayer?
Making a fuss about ensuring that their scripture is not changed or modified?
Do you really want to start a discussion (once more) on Christian "practices" throughout history?

One cannot judge a medicine by those who buy it, but don't dose themselves with it. Many have subscribed to different religions, both in the past and now, but don't actually live up to the standards set by their religions. To then judge a religion by the actions of greedy, materialistic folk who were using beliefs and customs to justify their own ends, does not make sense.

Has any other book beside the bible clearly pointed out what is to be in plain and unstandable form.
Has any other book detail events so clear as to leave no doubt in ones mind

Can we not end up again carrying on about whose book is better than whose?
That is extremely pointless.

[turbohead]

Adam god was always there. The spirit of god moved upon the waters.

To understand god's beginning you need to understand the mystery of godliness "hence god said great is the mystery of godliness"

God himself said before thou was I am. Meaning he was always there science is now catching up with the bible.

Take heed that no man deceive you and leave you with false hope.

Points to note read well;

The bible teaches:
Salvation is of god alone
I and my father are 1, he that hath seen me hath seen the father
there is only one god "father son & holy spirit" each his their OWN function.
mathematically, irrationally, incorrect even from logical stand point.[/color]
Hence god could not come as god to die for man.
God died and rose again "I lay down my life that I may take it up again"
God need not to be in creation because he is above it. putting human attributes to God ceases that entity you claim to be God to not be God. anytime you attribute God to be in need poses a thought that he is of want of someting and that is human like weakness and it cannot be of God.
By faith are ye saved through grace. And that not of yourself it is the gift of god. Not by works lest any man should boast.
The dead knows nothing, it'd appointed man once to die after this the judgement

Those are just a few

The Quran teaches;
No devil but jins
jins are of good an bad jus as humans, able to have free will, the shaitans/devils are what we believe to be the instigators of us to want the wrong actions.
This jihad thing ???? Why force love is kind patient pure etc
Muhammad was so great a prophetic man "but he is dead eh" take note god is not
'every soul shall taste of death' even that of Jesus whom we believe to be one of teh Prophets to still be alive until the times of the last days when he will return to defeat the 'dajjal' and live amongst us and have a family and then he will die a natural death and be buried in the empty spot next to our Prophet Muhammad(saw)
That there is only one god no son no holy ghost
what is there so hard to understand in this?
Treat others good live good and all is well

Why listen to false hope friends no man can save you.so why confess your sins to him ?
No amount of holy water can wash away your sins.
Why travel al around the world trying to travel the path that Jesus trod when salvation is free to all that seeketh it.
An idol god thing made of stone cannot save you.
How can one feed something that hears not sees not knows not can that save you in time of trouble?

To the ones who claims salassie hail from the lion of the tribe of Judah, for one to claim this one must exist before existence existed.

I don't need to bash a religion to know it is false just look at their practices, one CANNOT learn to speak in tongues.that alone comes from god and it requires TWO things an interpreter and the holy ghost. It works like this

Read the. New testament on the day of pentecost 27 Nations of languages were gathered to hear Peter preach and everyone heard the gospel in his own language. And Peter only preached once, the holy spirit interpreted the words of Peter as fast as it came out an every man heard it in his own language.it is a gift of the holy spirit.

Men can't cast out demons only the holy spirit working threw man can. Satan is a mighty foe and will stop at no lengths to make sure all mankind is lost. He knows his time is short

We are living we are dwelling in a grand an awful time. Weather we believe it or not look around us

Rain in dry season,unprecedented and unpredictable rainfall,planes crashing,wars and roumors of wars,blasphemers of god,ships sinking,men and women doing that which is unseemly,crime blood everywhere,landslides earthquakes in land and sea,floods,avalanches,famine,droughts, nations saying peace peace and the sudden destruction.

But the end is not yet.

Has any other book beside the bible clearly pointed out what is to be in plain and unstandable form.
Has any other book detail events so clear as to leave no doubt in ones mind

Muhammad dead
Do not even think of those who are martyred in the way of Allah as dead, BUT THEY
ARE ALIVE near their lord and given provision. They are joyous of what
Allah bestowed upon them of his favour and they give good news to those
who have not as yet reached them.” (Surah Al-Imraan, Verse 170).
Ghandi dead
Mother theresa dead
Salassie dead
God the almighty liveth forever
to say that God liveth forever may spark that he had a beginning which he doesnt have, He was there in matters we cannot comprehend, He needs nothing to be sustained but is our sustainance