The Religion Discussion

[Chimera]

I just have one lil question Adam, you believe that thing about the Quran coming straight from Allah and being brought down to earty by the angel Gabreel/Gabriel?

That's correct.
The Quran is the actual "Words of Allah" that HE spoke it himself (truly). Since HE is the Creator and HIS words are HIS attribute, the Quran is NOT created.
So Megadoc1's accusation of it containing errors, in itself is erroneous.

and who exactly are YOU to say that duckman's accusation of it being erroneous, is erroneous?

you use to pitch marble with your allah?

[MG Man]

^ LULZ. MG you still arguing with that man? His last post alone should show you that he is camel nuts and a complete lol-cow who is milked for the continuous lulz.

A non-lulz issue is that this guy is somewhere out there walking on the streets with many people just like him.

I related to a few of them......scaryass sheit

[MG Man]

I just have one lil question Adam, you believe that thing about the Quran coming straight from Allah and being brought down to earty by the angel Gabreel/Gabriel?

That's correct.
The Quran is the actual "Words of Allah" that HE spoke it himself (truly). Since HE is the Creator and HIS words are HIS attribute, the Quran is NOT created.
So Megadoc1's accusation of it containing errors, in itself is erroneous.

and who exactly are YOU to say that duckman's accusation of it being erroneous, is erroneous?

you use to pitch marble with your allah?

as I understand it, the marble pitching thing is a sore point with his beneficence, since he has no thumbs n such.......he lost all his marbles to jesus.........it is alleged

[RBphoto]

Um... where is the first Koran (or any other holy book) located anyway? Surely it must have been engraved on titanium alloy or something and inlaid with gold to lastforever. Heck, if I was an all powerful god, I would have delivered it on an Ipad.

[maj. tom]

^ That come like when Moses went up Mt. Sinai ALONE and take 40 days and nights to carve out the 10 commandments in stone by himself, no witnesses.

Then he come back down and tell everybody, "the LORD delivered unto me two tables of stone written with the finger of God." And then he pelt it at the people and destroyed the tablets.

And people believed that you know! If that happen today, anybody go believe that?

[nareshseep]

[Chimera]

I dont know if this is it

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/ ... ssein.html


There are some lacunae in this manuscript such as missing folios or worn out writing. Some of them were fixed by adding extra folios or reinking the existing text - both of them clearly done using a later hand [Figure (d)]. This has resulted in copying mistakes - 7 out of 22 mistakes are due to restorations. The parchment of this Qur'an was restored in the time of Sultan al-Gūrī, the last of the Mamluk sultans, and was restored from time to time since then due to wear and tear.

[RBphoto]

I dont know if this is it

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/ ... ssein.html


There are some lacunae in this manuscript such as missing folios or worn out writing. Some of them were fixed by adding extra folios or reinking the existing text - both of them clearly done using a later hand [Figure (d)]. This has resulted in copying mistakes - 7 out of 22 mistakes are due to restorations. The parchment of this Qur'an was restored in the time of Sultan al-Gūrī, the last of the Mamluk sultans, and was restored from time to time since then due to wear and tear.

Cyah be it... ah mean.... the word of god endureth forever... not so? I mean.. the last prophet shouldah get better than that, and hardly a few hundred years after and you have the hand of MAN restoring it WITH MISTAKES!!!??? Pffft... dat is ah wikipedia koran..... any tom dick and dog could edit it.

[Chimera]

well dem men say that the quran is the direct work of allah and it unedited and perfect and no man cudda make such a thing..but me eh know where it is

[megadoc1]

I just have one lil question Adam, you believe that thing about the Quran coming straight from Allah and being brought down to earty by the angel Gabreel/Gabriel?

That's correct.
The Quran is the actual "Words of Allah" that HE spoke it himself (truly). Since HE is the Creator and HIS words are HIS attribute, the Quran is NOT created.
So Megadoc1's accusation of it containing errors, in itself is erroneous.

excuse me! my accusation? breds I am a christian and I know we don't believe in three gods... never did!
it is the god of islam who spread such lies!!!! Christianity is a monotheistic religion meaning we have faith in one God !!! if things are not how the quran says then you must accept that the quran is erroneous ..please investigate!!

[RBphoto]

Mega.... father, son, holy ghost.... not 3 manifestations of the same god? Or three separate entities altogether. How does that work as "One god?"

[mitsu_chick941]

[nareshseep]

I just have one lil question Adam, you believe that thing about the Quran coming straight from Allah and being brought down to earty by the angel Gabreel/Gabriel?

That's correct.
The Quran is the actual "Words of Allah" that HE spoke it himself (truly). Since HE is the Creator and HIS words are HIS attribute, the Quran is NOT created.
So Megadoc1's accusation of it containing errors, in itself is erroneous.

excuse me! my accusation? breds I am a christian and I know we don't believe in three gods... never did!
it is the god of islam who spread such lies!!!! Christianity is a monotheistic religion meaning we have faith in one God !!! if things are not how the quran says then you must accept that the quran is erroneous ..please investigate!!

All religions believe in one god

[nareshseep]

^ That come like when Moses went up Mt. Sinai ALONE and take 40 days and nights to carve out the 10 commandments in stone by himself, no witnesses.

Then he come back down and tell everybody, "the LORD delivered unto me two tables of stone written with the finger of God." And then he pelt it at the people and destroyed the tablets.

And people believed that you know! If that happen today, anybody go believe that?

I like your trend of thought... same thing I was saying earlier, if a man wake up a morning and say God talk to him ... whats the result... first ticket to the madhouse... now imagine yuh have a daughter and to you she not seeing anybody but bam shot she get pregnant... would you bow down and praise that her child is the messiah? But according to "history" this was the case.

Sad is the case of the brainwashed cause they don't knoweth and they never will, for they propagate stories that will keep mankind divided and hinder advancement of the human race.

[d spike]

...WHAT IS THE NAME OF GOD??

For reasons best known to yourself (but easily guessed by most) you are avoiding responding to my posts. (Speaking of which, whatever happened to that post of yours regarding the referring to Jesus as "Lord"? Did you even go back and look at the page from the Catholic forum you referred to?)

Hey pal,
Sorry but between 2 jobs, family and worshipping Allah I haven't had much time to read all the stuff that you posted.

But you could respond to what little you read...
Don't worry about apologizing for your issues of time management - these should remain private. I doubt that any of us are paid to post our opinions here, we all have to find a "time-out" in our daily lives to converse here.

...Yet you have time to make snide comments about two fellows, who have been contributing longer than you have, and have the gift of inserting humour into a dialogue that would otherwise go downhill quite quickly. I would tell you to look back at some of their worthier contributions - but you wouldn't have the time. If you have a problem with something said here, I believe there is a "Report" button. Don't waste time attempting to crack a whip that you can't wield, and that won't be heard - you clearly have not read much of what I have posted!

You said you were responding to my post but instead went into another topic about Jesus, that's what I was confused about.

It's called,"Making a point". Does it matter who says it? Whether I quote Groucho Marx or Confucius, I believe it is the matter that I quote that is relevant to the discussion - which you have so recently joined. Just like fussing about what religion I belong to, it doesn't matter. Deal with the statement, not the address. If I need to make my points simple enough for you to understand, say so.

However, if you cannot decifer what you are about, then I just wont bother because I dont want to step on any egg shells.

Eggshells? Don't be silly. This is Tuner.
If you read what I have written, then you will realize that I know EXACTLY what I am about - I just don't see the point in stating what congregation I choose to bang my tambourine in here. Your concept of religion is rather immature if you cannot discuss religious concepts without knowing my background. Theology is the relationship Man has with his God, and to only study the beliefs of one group of people would result in a very biased and poor understanding of the topic. This attempt to put me into a compartment has no bearing on the discussion, but has to do with your desire to know which stones to pelt.

You seem to have you own opinion about the bible not in unison with others who follow it.

So? Which others? The ones you know? (Unlearned folks who have clearly given you wrong information? Even megadoc can see that... by the way, you have not answered his query - just side-stepped it.) All that says is that you are unaware of things outside your own little bubble.
Since you refuse to look back and view previously posted material, then allow me to enlighten you. My field is that of orthodox or mainstream Christianity. Megadoc (and a few others) are just voices of fundamentalist Christian sects,most of which are relatively new. Because they make a lot of noise doesn't mean they are in the majority - it just means they are exuberant and... well... noisy.
So because I differ, I don't know what I am talking about, eh? ...yet you refer to Muslims who follow a different path to you as "deviated sects"... perhaps they have the same view of you...

I think mitsu_chick941 said it best:

If one person or everyone does that then it leads to misguidance because everyone wants to interpret the translation to suit their fancy but no one has the original script or knows the language. So how can you understand what it means, much less for coming up with your own meaning.

I would ask those deviated sects of yours the same thing... By the way, that silly argument about "no one has the original script or knows the language" has been dealt with before- but you wouldn't know that,right? Ask sMASH about it...

Your philosophy of "My position is simple: Bloom where you are planted. If you are a Buddhist, then be a good Buddhist. If you are a Hindu, be a good Hindu." That's ridiculous, let's assimilate if you apply that principle to a people who has gone astray and GOD has sent a prophet to them. Do you expect them to say "No thank you, we good with what we have, all rivers lead to the sea / we all climbing the same mountain but on different paths?"

Your failure to understand a coherent statement is unfortunate.
I am referring to a RELIGION. Clearly, one must follow a religion and its teachings to benefit from it. If the "people went astray, and God had to send a prophet to them"...then obviously THEY WERE NOT FOLLOWING THEIR RELIGION!!!!
I am referring to following the religion of one's choice... allowing others to be free as YOU WERE to make that choice - the only way you cannot understand this is if you yourself became a follower of your own religion by force, and saw nothing wrong with that.

Basically, that's what the Jews said to Jesus, and many prophets before were persecuted and killed (but not so Jesus).

That is NOT what the "Jews said to Jesus"!!! For goodness sake, please don't spout nonsense and attempt to pass it off as fact. If you must refer to something beyond your limit of knowledge, then please either research it properly or ask someone who actually does know.

Going back to the LORD, LORD thing. I admit it was not the correct translation when I thought it was but what difference does "Not everyone" makes compared to "None". Ponder on it. The former implies "Some" or "Most"(maybe). I will propose that "None" makes better grammatical sense in the context of the usage where "but those who do the will of ..." follows immediately after.

You clearly need to complete your secondary schooling where language is concerned - and certainly find out about the passage, its nuances, idiom and language before you make yourself look silly. As I said before, if it is beyond you, seek help - don't make unlearned assumptions.

Think again, it doesn't make a difference because the second part of the statement "those who do the will of ..." will be singled out to enter paradise.

If it didn't make a difference, why was it mentioned? You missed the point of the quote entirely - simply because you were twisting it to suit your purpose, which had nothing to do with the actual meaning. This unfortunate fact would have occurred to you if you had only read the page (6 posts, eh) you chose to quote blindly.

The reality is that muslims believe in the books revealed to the previous prophets in the bible but that what we have today has been changed by man, corrupted so it is pointless debating based on quotations from them.

Ask sMASH about that rehashed nonsense.

Ah feel yuh is a JW...they doh believe in hell and doh believe that heaven are for man.

Why I say that ? Because they claim to have the right translation of the bible and everybody else wrong as well as a different view as to the position of Jesus.

Yet again, you are quite wrong.
I am certainly no JW (ask MG nah) and your views on that sect are also wrong.
They do believe in hell - they just don't agree that hell is eternal.
They do believe that people are going to heaven - but only 144,000 of them. The rest will populate the "New Earth" mentioned in the last book of the bible.

Yes, they did go and produce a badly translated version of the bible (and many of the errors were deliberate) but what does that have to do with me? I use quite a few different translations in order to show my students how the original texts were developed. I don't claim to use a "special" translation.
As to the "position of Jesus", I doubt I have to go into detail here, having made my position quite clear already.
Make up your mind whether you wish to add something of value to the discussion, or you just want to antagonize people.

[Chimera]

.. now imagine yuh have a daughter and to you she not seeing anybody but bam shot she get pregnant... would you bow down and praise that her child is the messiah? But according to "history" this was the case.

Sad is the case of the brainwashed cause they don't knoweth and they never will, for they propagate stories that will keep mankind divided and hinder advancement of the human race.

i find this is the funniest of it all

Mary get knocked up and say "oh goarrr i eh lie with no man..it had to be something divine"

Then she and her family/friends concoct a nice tale using this




and bam! a religion is born

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ while it is a fact that numerous other religions throughout man's history have had immaculate conception, miracles and ressurection of a messiah, that December 25th part isn't true though

most of those religions in that image didnt use the gregorian calendar or even similar so there was no 25th, far less a December in their dates.

Also Jesus was not born on December 25th historically. The December 25th date came about as a time to celebrate his birth. By definition, Dec 25th is the annual commemoration of the birth of Jesus Christ. The original date of the celebration in Eastern Christianity was January 6.

[maj. tom]

^ interesting to note that god lost own his virginity to Mary according to the bible.

And he alone knows to how many other unwitting women he convinced to carry his divine seed and bear saviours of the world in so many other religions and civilizations in history. I think he duped poor Mary. Was it consensual by the way?

[d spike]

Also, the Quran is the only book / message that has been sent to all of mankind and jinn. The previous books (laws) were limited to certain ppl and time and have been made obsolete. Like it or not, that the fact.

Fact? Says who? (Duane's napkin tenet again!)
What makes other religions' scripture "obsolete"?

[sMASH]

although i still don't believe that all of the bible is originally what would have come from jesus(pbuh), but from other people, the point is, most of this has been covered at length before.
read from the beginning and you would see the EVOLUTION (duane doh get excited) of the discussions of this 'god' thing.

i just bumped the thread as a full stop to say that nobody coming with any thing new... nobody has.

take yuh time, read from the beginning, if is a page a day, and then contribute any ting additional. that's what i did when it was page 80 in the version two, which is like page 50 or so now.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

the bible is originally what would have come from jesus(pbuh)

Jesus did not write anything in the bible!

the events in the old testament took place before Jesus and the new testament was written by his disciples and people who came after Jesus

I'm not sure why Jesus himself didnt write anything in the bible. Maybe bluefete or megadoc1 can answer that

the old testament and the Qu'ran are very similar - they both have Adam and Eve, Noah, Abraham, etc etc

[AdamB]

^ That come like when Moses went up Mt. Sinai ALONE and take 40 days and nights to carve out the 10 commandments in stone by himself, no witnesses.

Then he come back down and tell everybody, "the LORD delivered unto me two tables of stone written with the finger of God." And then he pelt it at the people and destroyed the tablets.

And people believed that you know! If that happen today, anybody go believe that?

The concept of Faith is that it is to believe in the Unseen. If you only accept something if you see it, then that's not belief.

Our prophet is "like unto Moses". When someone has earned the trust of ppl due to the soundness of their character and historical record of truthfulness, their word is held trustworthy.

Do you have any scientist, naturalist or atheist whom you trust to the extent that you will put your head on a block?

[AdamB]

I just have one lil question Adam, you believe that thing about the Quran coming straight from Allah and being brought down to earty by the angel Gabreel/Gabriel?

That's correct.
The Quran is the actual "Words of Allah" that HE spoke it himself (truly). Since HE is the Creator and HIS words are HIS attribute, the Quran is NOT created.
So Megadoc1's accusation of it containing errors, in itself is erroneous.

and who exactly are YOU to say that duckman's accusation of it being erroneous, is erroneous?

you use to pitch marble with your allah?

Sorry, you rubbed the lamp, the genie came out and you asked for 1 wish. You got what you wished for, now you want 2 more!! Tough luck...look for another lamp!!!!

[AdamB]

Also, the Quran is the only book / message that has been sent to all of mankind and jinn. The previous books (laws) were limited to certain ppl and time and have been made obsolete. Like it or not, that the fact.

Fact? Says who? (Duane's napkin tenet again!)
What makes other religions' scripture "obsolete"?

What = The Quran.
Who = Allah, The Most High, The One free from all forms of imperfection.

Invoke GOD for HIM to make you see truth as truth and falsehood as falsehood. Beseech HIM for HIS guidance!!

[Rooki3]

the bible is originally what would have come from jesus(pbuh)

Jesus did not write anything in the bible!

the events in the old testament took place before Jesus and the new testament was written by his disciples and people who came after Jesus

I'm not sure why Jesus himself didnt write anything in the bible. Maybe bluefete or megadoc1 can answer that

the old testament and the Qu'ran are very similar - they both have Adam and Eve, Noah, Abraham, etc etc

as far as i know, the bible was inspired by god aka jesus father, altho god himself didnt pick up a pen & pencil, it was inspired by him & considered his writings.

e.g if you have a secretary & u instruct her to make some sorta memo, give her guidelines, as to how to structure it, although she might have typed it, it isnt her memo, but yurs!!

[AdamB]

^ interesting to note that god lost own his virginity to Mary according to the bible.

And he alone knows to how many other unwitting women he convinced to carry his divine seed and bear saviours of the world in so many other religions and civilizations in history. I think he duped poor Mary. Was it consensual by the way?

You back from that hike already? If you have nothing constructive to add, then keep your trap shut. Is there a scientific hypothesis that describes you behaviour?

My Christian brothers should be doing this but I have to defend Mary, 2000 yrs later and ignorant ppl still accusing her of illegal sexual intercourse!! She was a chaste woman who even in seclusion was blessed with sustenance from GOD. Such was her level of piety / Godconsciousness / obedience.

[Chimera]

Also, the Quran is the only book / message that has been sent to all of mankind and jinn. The previous books (laws) were limited to certain ppl and time and have been made obsolete. Like it or not, that the fact.

Fact? Says who? (Duane's napkin tenet again!)
What makes other religions' scripture "obsolete"?

What = The Quran.
Who = Allah, The Most High, The One free from all forms of imperfection.

Invoke GOD for HIM to make you see truth as truth and falsehood as falsehood. Beseech HIM for HIS guidance!!

have you ever read the book "Son of Hamas"?

the beginning of it lays out islam as a ladder and the different types of muslims on different rungs of that ladder

the pretend muslims just going to mosque but otherwise not really taking on Islam as the lowest rung

the highest rung being that you are ready to kill or are killing to defend and promote your religion/you see everyone else as infidels who deserve to die/be punished etc


what rung are you on Adam?

[AdamB]

can u prove that your book is the actual words of god?
and please dont quote the book as proof

Do you believe in the existence of GOD now? If not, we need to have that discussion first.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ perhaps your answer to his question may deal with that issue

[AdamB]

Also, the Quran is the only book / message that has been sent to all of mankind and jinn. The previous books (laws) were limited to certain ppl and time and have been made obsolete. Like it or not, that the fact.

Fact? Says who? (Duane's napkin tenet again!)
What makes other religions' scripture "obsolete"?

What = The Quran.
Who = Allah, The Most High, The One free from all forms of imperfection.

Invoke GOD for HIM to make you see truth as truth and falsehood as falsehood. Beseech HIM for HIS guidance!!

have you ever read the book "Son of Hamas"?

the beginning of it lays out islam as a ladder and the different types of muslims on different rungs of that ladder

the pretend muslims just going to mosque but otherwise not really taking on Islam as the lowest rung

the highest rung being that you are ready to kill or are killing to defend and promote your religion/you see everyone else as infidels who deserve to die/be punished etc


what rung are you on Adam?

No I haven't. Is he an apostate who migrated to the West?
A BILLION muslims in the world who hold on to the rope of Allah. What does this ONE guy know and why should anyone listen to him? He obviously did not understand Islam or pretending to be a Christian for attention and material gain. Why would you listen to 1 and ignore 999,999,999 persons?

Should i do like dspike and say what rung I on is my business, yuh too farse??

No, if i on a rung, it is the one where i believe in Allah, His Angels, His Books, His Messengers, The Last Day and Divine Pre-Decree. I worship Him alone (salaah), pay d compulsory charity (zakaat), fast in the month of Ramadhaan (saum), and hope to someday make the pilgrimage to Mecca.

The rung where I not selfish, that I would discover this immense treasure called Islam and want to keep it for myself. So here I am on Tuner trying to give Dawah (Inviting to GOD) in order for others to earn HIS good pleasure and Paradise (God Willing).

Islam teaches that if you kill 1 person, it is as if you have killed all of mankind. I fear my LORD and hope for HIS continued guidance.

As a businessman, when you recognize a "steal of a deal" would you just let it slip away from your grasp. Think about it.