The Religion Discussion

[AdamB]

What all these god fearing people fail to realize is that the majority of atheists have been down the god path, were born into various religions and had it shoved down our throats since birth and did all the rituals and prayers and faith without question for a number of years. Until we grew up and just asked a few questions and tried to find some answers on our own through plain old logic and based on what we can observe of the world.

A simple question to ask yourself is how do we know the moon isn't made of green cheese? Well we've been there, we've taken samples, drilled some cores. Gravitation pull calculations and seismic readings? Maybe we're underestimating the density of green cheese.
But in the end we know the moon isn't made of green cheese because it's absurd to think that, because we have observed our world and universe and inferences based on observations follow some logic, then we put forward a hypothesis and test it with experiments.

So all these great god fearing, warmongering people here, just be aware that we have been down the same road as you and were even quite as vehement as you all are at a time, and followed without question and had great fear of disobedience, but we just thought about things differently and looked for proof and came to sound conclusions. We grew up. Kids believe that story about santa claus until they grow up and woke all night to see if they saw santa and his reindeer. Then they followed through with the inference of parents buying gifts through logic and then observed it. The god story isn't that different. Logic is a part of the human brain that would take its natural course with the right tools and education, but instead we are forced to learn something else that has never had any stable grounds to begin with because of the political nature and power it imparts upon men.

Sounds like you were hurt and may need some therapy. Taking out your pent-up anger and resentment on believers of GOD?

Why are you making assumptions about God-fearing ppl? I am just the opposite (was not brain-washed from childhood) and chose to accept my faith with my free will after sound logic and comparative study.

But it's not too late...when death approaches or the sun rises in the west...then it will be too late! (Looking forward to the comments on the hypothesis of this scientific phenomenon).

[AdamB]

[quote="d spike"][quote="d spike"]
While one can come into a public forum and state one's point of view, no matter how radical (one does have the right of free speech), one cannot come into a public forum and state one's point of view THAT ALL ELSE IS WRONG AND THOSE WHO BELIEVE OTHERWISE WILL BE PUNISHED. A right is not a license. One has rights to do as one sees fit AS LONG AS ONE DOES NOT IMPINGE OR INFRINGE ON THE RIGHTS OF OTHERS. Apart from being just plain bad manners, you are denying others their right to not be offended unduly in public. There is a major difference between statement and imposition.

FACT IS FACT, TRUTH IS TRUTH, RIGHT IS RIGHT, WRONG IS WRONG!!

You should appreciate that I am not giving you BS or hiding my beliefs (like dspike). That's my position and I believe it and will defend it.

Please note that I believe in all of the prophets mentioned in the Quran which are all mentioned in the books of the Bible. Also, there would have been many prophets not mentioned by name in the Bible and Quran, that we believe in also that they were sent by GOD.

What I am saying is that what exists today is not an accurate reflection of what was revealed to those prophets. The message has been lost, the big picture (ONENESS OF GOD) not the storm in the teacup.

Also, the Quran is the only book / message that has been sent to all of mankind and jinn. The previous books (laws) were limited to certain ppl and time and have been made obsolete. Like it or not, that the fact.

[AdamB]

sigh
I actually miss the megadoc 'debates'
this adam fella scares me

I am really a nice guy when you get to know me. I fit in very well and only have (external) 2 cells...bmobile and digicel.

Don't fear me but rather fear (worship) your Guardian LORD because HE created you for that specific purpose. Also, have hope that He will guide you to the truth, a little more hope than fear!!

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Don't fear me but rather fear (worship) your Guardian LORD because HE created you for that specific purpose. Also, have hope that He will guide you to the truth, a little more hope than fear!!

is fear = worship?

[MG Man]

@sMASH & Megadoc1: The Quran is without error (no doubt). .

I have my doubts.....
Tell me this..........how can some islamic theologists, versed in arabic, read the koran and see it as peace, love and harmony, yet other Islamic clerics, equally versed in the religion see justification for war, killings, female circumcision etc?????
Same book, same verses..........same islamic scholars even from the same country....
And all of them read it with a pure heart, only seeking truth in 'god's word'
Seriously.........god couldn't make it less easy to be misguided?
u can't cite translations or outsiders because these are learned islamic scholars

[nareshseep]

edited

Sounds like you were hurt and may need some therapy. Taking out your pent-up anger and resentment on believers of story books?

If a man believes in his storybook, its within his right to freely believe in his storybook.

/thread

[RBphoto]

There is a reason for that which I will explain soon.

You now looking to explain... after a few hundred pages..... breddaman?

[AdamB]

Don't fear me but rather fear (worship) your Guardian LORD because HE created you for that specific purpose. Also, have hope that He will guide you to the truth, a little more hope than fear!!

is fear = worship?

Now yuh see...it have intelligent ppl here after all!

Duane, the Islamic definition of worship is "Everything that Allaah (GOD) loves and is pleased with from the inward and outward sayings and actions (of the heart, limbs and tongue)."

The foundations of worship or the characteristic features of worship are love, hope and fear.

Combining Hope and Fear:
We have been requested to combine both hope and fear, in our worship and prayers and all other actions. Allaah said:

And call upon Him out of fear and hope [A’raaf 7:56]

Their sides forsake their beds, to invoke their Lord in fear and hope [Sajdah 32:16]

So we have been requested to combine both these qualities. In other words - for example -when we make supplication, we hope that Allaah answers our prayers and we fear that it might be rejected. Doing this protects from two things - despairing of Allaah’s Mercy, and not being too confident or arrogant that somehow Allaah will and must respond.

In fact the above two verses and others like them can be understood and linked to verses such as the following:

Declare (O Muhammad SAW) unto My slaves, that truly, I am the Oft-Forgiving, the Most-Merciful. And that My Torment is indeed the most painful torment. [Hijr 15:49-50]

The Forgiver of sin, the Acceptor of repentance, the Severe in punishment, Extensive (in His Favour, Grasp, Power) [Ghaafir 40:3]

See how Allaah mentioned His mercy along with His punishment? He did not mention mercy alone - but He coupled it with His punishment and likewise He did not mention punishment alone but coupled it with His mercy. This shows that we should worship Allaah with both of these states.

Anas reported that the Prophet, (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam) entered upon a young boy who was dying. The Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam) asked: "How are you?" The boy replied: "O Messenger of Allah, I am in-between hoping in Allah and fearing for my sins." The Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam) said: "The like of these two qualities do not unite in the heart of a servant except that Allah gives him what he hopes for and protects him from what he feared." [Hasan - Collected by at-Tirmidhee & Ibn Maajah. Authenticated by al-Albaanee in Ahkaamul-Janaa'iz (no. 2).]

[RBphoto]

No fear.... Can't be a muslim

[d spike]

...WHAT IS THE NAME OF GOD??

For reasons best known to yourself (but easily guessed by most) you are avoiding responding to my posts. (Speaking of which, whatever happened to that post of yours regarding the referring to Jesus as "Lord"? Did you even go back and look at the page from the Catholic forum you referred to?)

Let me repeat what I said before on this topic... perhaps you might not ignore it this time.

The whole "name of God" argument is only pertinent to those who claim to know "the name of God" and wave that like some kind of meritorious point - failing to realize that their own religion makes it quite clear that their salvation is based on far more important issues. That's like arguing what the real name is of an actor in a movie when one is attempting to discuss the message or theme of the movie is.


Let us assume this discussion is taking part among those who only believe in one supreme being.
A name's sole purpose is to discriminate between the identified being from other similar beings.
Are there other supreme beings?
Are you worried that Fruggle will intercept the prayers you sent to Fred, simply because you sneezed while praying?
Whom do you wish to differentiate between? Or is it that your religion secretly accepts the existence of other gods? (Please...)

If you pray to god (or God... or even GOD) how many are there up there to be mistakenly identified?

[d spike]

While one can come into a public forum and state one's point of view, no matter how radical (one does have the right of free speech), one cannot come into a public forum and state one's point of view THAT ALL ELSE IS WRONG AND THOSE WHO BELIEVE OTHERWISE WILL BE PUNISHED. A right is not a license. One has rights to do as one sees fit AS LONG AS ONE DOES NOT IMPINGE OR INFRINGE ON THE RIGHTS OF OTHERS. Apart from being just plain bad manners, you are denying others their right to not be offended unduly in public. There is a major difference between statement and imposition.

FACT IS FACT, TRUTH IS TRUTH, RIGHT IS RIGHT, WRONG IS WRONG!!

You should appreciate that I am not giving you BS or hiding my beliefs (like dspike). That's my position and I believe it and will defend it.

Oh wow. So it's okay to steal from people just as long as you are honest about it?
So... you can't appreciate that you are offending people? Are you so crass? There are far better ways to bring people to God. You catch more flies with molasses than vinegar.
You lead by example... and so far, you seem to be querulous - is that how Muslims are? Luckily for me, I know better...

Please bear in mind that this is not a private gathering at your behest, but a public forum. There is a certain modicum of behaviour expected of civilized folks - I referred to it before:

One has rights to do as one sees fit AS LONG AS ONE DOES NOT IMPINGE OR INFRINGE ON THE RIGHTS OF OTHERS. Apart from being just plain bad manners, you are denying others their right to not be offended unduly in public.

Being right is one thing - being ill-mannered is another.

As far as that last inane remark of yours is concerned, I have made my position quite clear (you really should read my posts) and everything I have written reflects my belief, and I have defended it and I will continue to defend it.
It isn't my fault that some folks are too narrow-minded, and attempt to pigeon-hole people into "safe" compartments - all the better to manipulate and offend them...
or that they are too ignorant to observe all that I have written and identify my beliefs - they are stated there for all to see. Why should I masticate the fruit before I offer it to you?

I haven't given anyone BS.
Neither do I hide my beliefs.
You (and megadoc et al) prefer that people have labels - it allows a preset target for you to sneer and spit at. (A fact I have stated before.)

What does it matter if I am a Buddhist or a Catholic or a Jainist or a Farsi? How will that information change the meaning of all that I have said here???!?!?

Whatever I say at this point isn't going to change anything - just give you something to spit or sneer at. Your attitude in dealing with others on this forum has made this quite clear.

I refuse to label my personal beliefs here, for there is no real interaction with those with whom you are communicating. (It would be like a girl posting a picture of herself and expecting advice on make-up/choices of clothing... she would be swamped by lewd remarks and not a few off-colour propositions... There are things that can be dealt with here, but religion and spirituality need a more human environment.
Yet, Megadoc1 does not understand nor accept this. He accuses me simply because I won't 'identify' my position. The poor child does not realize here is not the place for this.

I believe I am not here to teach - that is for somewhere else. I am merely acting as a guide. All I will suggest is that you carefully review your tenets, and more importantly, the actions their influence encourages you to perform. I will not be as crass as some to demand you explain why you think what you think. Unlike such characters, I respect the choice of belief of others - until they start disrespecting such a choice. I hope to ask the same of others is not asking too much.

I have clearly stated that all persons will have their 'bias', due to personality, culture, upbringing, experiences, and so forth. Our personal choices are truly our own when we make them based on our exposure, experiences and learning. "To thine own self be true". The sign of maturity is in using one's own bias to judge what is right for oneself, but not letting it cloud one's judgment of others.

[megadoc1]

@ doc i don't know arabic all too well, and primarily rely on translations. so i would have to say so far so good, any discrepancies are due to the inability to of arabic to directly translate to english. but to give u an idea of the the discrepancy, one meaning may be 'day' while historically the same word was also used to mean 'period of time'. that is where the context needs to be referenced.

@sMASH & Megadoc1: The Quran is without error (no doubt)........

the reason I asked this is because if the god of islam is all knowing and the quran is without erorr
why did the author of the Qur'an thought that Christians believe in three gods?(no they don't ) how come the god of the quran nor his messenger was aware that the concept of the trinity was formulated by Christians, as an attempt to make sense of what they believe regarding who God is and how he have been manifested ? they never believed there are three gods, nor did they ever believe God is one of three so where did the author of the quran get that from? this is a serious error! can you address this please ?.......thanks!

[AdamB]

No fear.... Can't be a muslim

A muslim is one who submits his will to the Lord of everything that exists. That requires humility and discipline. Possibly your being does not currently inculcate these qualities, that's why you claim to have "no fear".
Keep trying to convince yourself, but you do have doubt. Lack of evidence to disprove the existence of the Creator is the reason for the doubt.
The good news is that there still is time and opportunity for you to discover and fulfill the purpose of your creation. So you can be a muslim after all!!

[nareshseep]

[megadoc1]

AdamB, as far as "being confused" when some folks seem to focus on Jesus more that you are comfortable with, here is something he said that I am sure even you will agree with - to some extent at least.

When Jesus spoke about who would be going to hell or heaven at the end of time, he was very specific.
This is in response to those "christian" remarks made previously, concerning the danger of certain folks going to hell, specifically the "unbelievers" and "nay-sayers".
In Matthew 25:34-45, Jesus describes “Judgment Day”, saying that “the people of all nations” will be gathered and divided into two groups:
Then the King will say to the people on his right, “Come, you that are blessed by my Father! Come and possess the kingdom which has been prepared for you ever since the creation of the world. I was hungry and you fed me, thirsty and you gave me a drink; I was a stranger and you received me in your homes, naked and you clothed me; I was sick and you took care of me, in prison and you visited me.”
The righteous will then answer him, “When, Lord, did we ever see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and gave you a drink? When did we ever see you a stranger and welcome you in our homes, or naked and clothe you? When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?”
The King will reply, “I tell you, whenever you did this for one of the least important of these brothers of mine, you did it for me!”
Then he will say to those on his left, "Away from me, you that are under God’s curse! Away to the eternal fire which has been prepared for the Devil and his angels! I was hungry but you would not feed me, thirsty but you would not give me a drink; I was a stranger but you would not welcome me in your homes, naked but you would not clothe me; I was sick and in prison but you would not take care of me.”
Then they will answer him, “When, Lord, did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and we would not help you?”
The King will reply, “I tell you, whenever you refused to help one of these least important ones, you refused to help me!”

Ummmmm... he didn't say anything about believing or not believing... or being a Pentecostal or Catholic or Buddhist...

Why are those, who claim vehemently to be the followers of this man, so quick to ignore these words, but focus their rantings instead on those who don't share their specific religious grouping?

Jesus said alot of things that one would have to ignore if they should agree with what d spike is saying ...to make this point one have to ignore more words of Jesus than the ones that d spike is accusing
check some of them out

John 8:24 "Itold you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am [the one I claim to be], you will indeed die in your sins."

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.


Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Joh 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

[AdamB]

[quote="nareshseep[/quote]

@Naresh and Crossdrilled,
Your contributions (that don't even constitute a complete sentence) add no value to the discussions, so please feel free to hold hands, take a hike to Maracus, cool off, then eat ah bake and shark (or two), then rub yuh belly and get a tan. #Something that yuh capable of doing effectively.

[AdamB]

@ doc i don't know arabic all too well, and primarily rely on translations. so i would have to say so far so good, any discrepancies are due to the inability to of arabic to directly translate to english. but to give u an idea of the the discrepancy, one meaning may be 'day' while historically the same word was also used to mean 'period of time'. that is where the context needs to be referenced.

@sMASH & Megadoc1: The Quran is without error (no doubt)........

the reason I asked this is because if the god of islam is all knowing and the quran is without erorr
why did the author of the Qur'an thought that Christians believe in three gods?(no they don't ) how come the god of the quran nor his messenger was aware that the concept of the trinity was formulated by Christians, as an attempt to make sense of what they believe regarding who God is and how he have been manifested ? they never believed there are three gods, nor did they ever believe God is one of three so where did the author of the quran get that from? this is a serious error! can you address this please ?.......thanks!

Firstly, the author of the Quran is Allah, the Creator, the God of Abraham, Moses and Jesus (your GOD the father as you call HIM and my ONE TRUE GOD). It is not befitting to HIS Majesty that you accuse HIM of having an erroneous thought.
Also, [Musa (Moses)] said: "The knowledge thereof is with my Lord, in a Record. My Lord is neither unaware nor He forgets. " Quran 20:52

Secondly, you said "the concept of the trinity was formulated by Christians, as an attempt to make sense of what they believe regarding who God is and how he have been manifested". Do you admit that the entire Christian faith is built on the belief of the Trinity which "was formulated" by man and NOT GOD??!!

Thirdly, "they never believed there are three gods, nor did they ever believe God is one of three". So what is the Trinity? Not God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit? Have you not elevated Jesus from man to GOD (or some to Son of GOD)?

To put it simply, if you say Jesus was more than a man (that he is God or a god to be worshipped or the Son of God who is the "Lord"), but in reality he is only a man (flesh and blood) then you have broken the first Commandment (Thou shalt have no other gods besides/before me) by worshipping what would be categorized as "other god".

The modern belief in the trinity originated in the 4th century at the Council of Nicaea in approximately 325 C.E. King Constantine, the Roman Emperor and an adherent to paganism, presided over the Council. Its main purpose was to unite the Roman Empire by achieving agreement on Christian doctrine. This would promote a universal consolidation within the church.

History teaches that much later, after instituting a mandatory belief in the trinity, Constantine tried to be more tender and merciful with the decision, but it was too late. The Nicene Creed (also known as the Athenasian Creed) had taken hold. All who did not believe in the trinity doctrine were persecuted and killed. Every available instrument of torture was used on the nonbeliever. The Nicene Creed has since been amended, but it is still read today in many of the Protestant and Catholic churches. Those churches that associate themselves with the World Council of Churches now require belief in the trinity doctrine.
Source:http://www.2001translation.com/Trinity.html

[jm3]

what do you fellas think to this that i just received in my yt inbox?
i personally have trouble accepting my own religion of church of england christianity,
and tbh i just cannot accept this view from this particular faith given the actions of there most devoted followers.

May be peace with you
I would like to share some very important information with you. If you were to believe in it and accept it, it would make your life better, it would make you happy & it would benefit you.
Information that if you were to believe in it and accept it, it would make the life of people around you better, it would make them happy and would bring benefit to them & this will have a ripple effect on the society around you and them hence, making it better for everyone to live and enjoy their life.
I would like to speak with you about the 'Purpose of this life'.
Look around yourself. Look at the pen, at the paper, at the chair, at the table, at the bed and everything else around it. Look at everything and think about them. You will find each & everything has a purpose. The pen is there to write, the paper is there to be written upon, the chair is there to sit upon and the table is there to eat upon, the bed is there to sleep upon & everything else has a purpose. I guarantee you that we will not find anything that does not have a purpose & these are the items that we as human beings have produced & developed because we need them and would like them to serve a purpose to make our life easy & better.
Now let us look at ourselves. Look at our eyes, ears, hands, feet, tongue, nose and everything else in the body. The eyes are there to see, ears are there to hear, hands are there to pick & hold items, feet are there for us to walk & the nose is there to smell. Look & think about each & everything in the body and we will see its purpose. Let us look at the perfect body and think about it.
Like we created & produced items for a purpose, our body, our presence in this world has a purpose and there is a Creator who has created us for a reason & the purpose of our life is to use our body to worship the Creator.
Creator of the heavens & earth, Master & Sustainer of everyone
Say: He is Allah, the One
Allah is the Self-Sufficient Master
He begets not nor was He begotten
And there is none comparable unto Him
The Creator sees everything, hears everything & knows everything. He wants us to live our life in this world in the best possible way to benefit ourselves, people around us & the whole community.
I invite you to accept in the Creator -- Allah (GOD) as your lord and worship him. Accept & worship the Lord of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus & Muhammad (may peace be upon them). Turn to Allah (God) alone in your prayers & supplication & ask him for everything you need. Let us submit to the Creator.
Amazingly enough, all of us are already in a state of submission. Look at the new born baby. The baby comes out of the mother's womb without its consent. Who gave this baby its basic humanly instincts? The baby breathes not that it chooses to but it must breathe in order to live. No one forces the baby to breath. The baby submits itself to the air. We drink water as it is a need of the body and we need it to live. No one forces us to drink water. We eat to live as the body needs it. No one forces us to eat.
We submit ourselves to the needs. Now let us change the word 'NEED' to 'ISLAM'.
If we were to believe in the Creator as he wants us to believe, it will mean that ;
We submit ourselves to the Creator & belive in Islam. The word Islam comes from the word S-A-L-A-M-A, which means peace. We submit ourselves to the will of the Creator to bring about peace in this world & once we die we will have happy after life.
I invite you to accept in the Creator -- Allah (GOD) as your lord and worship him. Accept & worship the Lord of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus & Muhammad (may peace be upon them). Turn to Allah (God) alone in your prayers & supplication & ask him for everything you need. Let us submit to the Creator.
I am humbly calling you to shift yourself from the dreadful consequences of polytheism to the beauty of monotheism. Enter Paradise after this life and save yourself from the hellfire by worshipping God alone & believing in the final messenger of Allah.
If you believe in the Creator of the heavens & the earth, that He is the Master & the Sustainer, that He is the only one worthy of worship & not any of His Creation, including any of the prophets, from Adam to Moses to Jesus to Muhammad. If you believe, then say it now with your tongue.
'I bear witness that there is no one worthy of worship except Allah and i bear witness that Prophet Muhammad is the final messenger of Allah'
Then say the translation in Arabic ' Ash hadu Alla Illaha Illa Allah wa Ash Hadu Anna Muhammadan Rasool ul Allah.
This is the testimony that enters a person into the fold of Islam. You will immediately feel relief. After that, take your time to slowly learn the beauty of this religion.

[AdamB]

@sMASH & Megadoc1: The Quran is without error (no doubt). .

I have my doubts.....
Tell me this..........how can some islamic theologists, versed in arabic, read the koran and see it as peace, love and harmony, yet other Islamic clerics, equally versed in the religion see justification for war, killings, female circumcision etc?????
Same book, same verses..........same islamic scholars even from the same country....
And all of them read it with a pure heart, only seeking truth in 'god's word'
Seriously.........god couldn't make it less easy to be misguided?
u can't cite translations or outsiders because these are learned islamic scholars

MG,
I dont want to judge the scholars but we dont know what are the conditions of their people. We have to also question the news we get from the "media".

There are deviated sects like the Khawaarij (modern day AlQaida) and others who are involved in "justification for war", etc. We do not know what is in their hearts (their intention). Some of them like "Shia" have beliefs / have `done actions that would put them outside of Islam.

[AdamB]

When Francisco Mitra became the president of France in 1981. France requested from the Egyptian government to host the mummy of Pharaoh for the purpose of running laboratory and archeological examinations on the mummy of the most notorious dictator ever lived on earth. Upon arrival, a very royal attendants were there including the French president himself and all the ministers bowed in the honor for the mummy

When the ceremony ended, the mummy was carried to a specially-designed section at the Archeology Centre of France where the tests started by the greatest French archeological and anatomical scientists in order to discover more about this great mummy

The scientists were headed by Professor Maurice Bucaille. The scientists were trying to restore the mummy while Professor Maurice was mainly concerned about how did this mummy died! The final report of the scientists was released late at night in which it was stated that the remaining salt in the mummy is an overt evidence that it was drawn in the sea, and the body was rescued very shortly where it was immediately embalmed to be saved

There was an amazing thing that was still confusing Professor Maurice. This thing was how could this body possibly be saved and in such good condition more than any other mummy despite being taken out of the sea? Professor Maurice was writing his final report on what he thought would be a new discovery about saving Pharaoh's body immediately after his death and embalming it.

At this moment, someone whispered to him that Muslims claim to know something about the drowning of this mummy. However, the Professor firmly denied such thing saying that it's impossible to discover this without the development of science and without using his high-technology, complicated laboratories and computers.

Well, he was surprise when he was told that Muslims believe in a book called "The Noble Quran" and the Noble Quran narrates the story of Pharaoh's drowning and ensures the safety of his body after his death as to be a Sign to mankind. The Professor couldn't believe what he heard and he started to wonder:
How can a book which existed 1400 years ago speak about the mummy that was only found 200 years ago, in 1898 ??!!
How can that be possible while the ancient Egyptian heritage was discovered only a few decades ago and no one knew about it before??!!

The Professor sat down pondering on what he was told about the book of Muslims while his Holy Book (The Bible) narrates only the drowning of Pharaoh without saying anything about his body.
"Is it possible that this mummy in front of me is the one who was chasing Moses ??!!"
Is it possible that Muhammad knew this 1400 years ago ??!!"

The Professor couldn't sleep that night till they brought him the Old Testament where he read:
"When Pharaoh's horses, chariots and horsemen [d] went into the sea, the LORD brought the waters of the sea back over them, but the Israelites walked through the sea on dry ground. (Exodus 15:19)".

He was surprised that his Holy Bible didn't mention about the destiny of the body and that it will be saved.

When the scientists were done with the mummy, France retuned it to Egypt, but Professor Maurice couldn't rest for a moment since he was told that Muslims knew that the body will be saved from the Noble Quran. So, he decided to travel and meet anatomy Muslim scientists and there he spoke about his discovery of the saved body of the mummy after its death in the sea and so on.

One of the Muslim scientist stood up and simply opened the Quran and pointed to the Professor at one verse:

"This day shall We save you in your body, that you may be a Sign to those who come after you! But verily, many among mankind are neglectful of Our Signs" (Quran 10:92)

The Professor was struck when he read that and immediately stood in front of the crowd and said loudly: "I believe in Islam, I believe in Quran"

Then he went back to France with a different intention. In France, he dedicated 10 years investigating the scientific discoveries and comparing them with the Quran and trying to come up with one scientific contradiction with the Quran.

Finally he quoted one verse from the Quran to be his conclusion:

"No falsehood can approach it (this book) from before or behind it: it is sent down by One Full of Wisdom, Worthy of all praise" (Quran 41:42)

As a result of all years of his research, Professor Maurice wrote a book that shook all Europe, especially the scientists there
"Quran, Bible and Science: A Study of the Holy Books in the Light of Modern Science"

All copies were sold out at a very short time.

[pseudorandom]

@sMASH & Megadoc1: The Quran is without error (no doubt). .

I have my doubts.....
Tell me this..........how can some islamic theologists, versed in arabic, read the koran and see it as peace, love and harmony, yet other Islamic clerics, equally versed in the religion see justification for war, killings, female circumcision etc?????
Same book, same verses..........same islamic scholars even from the same country....
And all of them read it with a pure heart, only seeking truth in 'god's word'
Seriously.........god couldn't make it less easy to be misguided?
u can't cite translations or outsiders because these are learned islamic scholars

Well, the part about "all of them read it with a pure heart, only seeking truth in 'god's word'" is not really true. Most of them have personal agendas. Anyone can take any text and twist it to mean anything, especially when focusing on only one line out of context with the rest of verses. It's when people have their own personal agendas instead to seeking truth is when this happens.

Instead of looking at the people who practice the religion, look at the religion itself from a theoretical and academic point of view. Make sure your heart's intention is purely to seek truth, and not just to find ammunition against a religion. Then look at all religions and their real teachings, and not that portrayed by mass media, and see which one(s) make the most sense and most likely to be the real truth.

With the Quran, look at it's history, how it was revealed, how it was compiled, it's inimitable style of language, how people in Muhammad's time reacted to hearing verses of the Quran, the efforts in protecting it, and of course the verses themselves and their tasfir.

[AdamB]

With the Quran, look at it's history, how it was revealed, how it was compiled, it's inimitable style of language, how people in Muhammad's time reacted to hearing verses of the Quran, the efforts in protecting it, and of course the verses themselves and their tafsir (explanation).

[AdamB]

...WHAT IS THE NAME OF GOD??

For reasons best known to yourself (but easily guessed by most) you are avoiding responding to my posts. (Speaking of which, whatever happened to that post of yours regarding the referring to Jesus as "Lord"? Did you even go back and look at the page from the Catholic forum you referred to?)b]

[/quote]

Hey pal,
Sorry but between 2 jobs, family and worshipping Allah I haven't had much time to read all the stuff that you posted.

You said you were responding to my post but instead went into another topic about Jesus, that's what I was confused about. I am not uncomfortable debating about Jesus.

However, if you cannot decifer what you are about, then I just wont bother because I dont want to step on any egg shells. You seem to have you own opinion about the bible not in unison with others who follow it. If one person or everyone does that then it leads to misguidance because everyone wants to interpret the translation to suit their fancy but no one has the original script or knows the language. So how can you understand what it means, much less for coming up with your own meaning.

Your philosophy of "My position is simple: Bloom where you are planted. If you are a Buddhist, then be a good Buddhist. If you are a Hindu, be a good Hindu." That's ridiculous, let's assimilate if you apply that principle to a people who has gone astray and GOD has sent a prophet to them. Do you expect them to say "No thank you, we good with what we have, all rivers lead to the sea / we all climbing the same mountain but on different paths?"

Basically, that's what the Jews said to Jesus, and many prophets before were persecuted and killed (but not so Jesus).

Going back to the LORD, LORD thing. I admit it was not the correct translation when I thought it was but what difference does "Not everyone" makes compared to "None". Ponder on it. The former implies "Some" or "Most"(maybe). I will propose that "None" makes better grammatical sense in the context of the usage where "but those who do the will of ..." follows immediately after.

Think again, it doesn't make a difference because the second part of the statement "those who do the will of ..." will be singled out to enter paradise.

The reality is that muslims believe in the books revealed to the previous prophets in the bible but that what we have today has been changed by man, corrupted so it is pointless debating based on quotations from them.

Ah feel yuh is a JW...they doh believe in hell and doh believe that heaven are for man.

Why I say that ? Because they claim to have the right translation of the bible and everybody else wrong as well as a different view as to the position of Jesus.

[MG Man]

@sMASH & Megadoc1: The Quran is without error (no doubt). .

I have my doubts.....
Tell me this..........how can some islamic theologists, versed in arabic, read the koran and see it as peace, love and harmony, yet other Islamic clerics, equally versed in the religion see justification for war, killings, female circumcision etc?????
Same book, same verses..........same islamic scholars even from the same country....
And all of them read it with a pure heart, only seeking truth in 'god's word'
Seriously.........god couldn't make it less easy to be misguided?
u can't cite translations or outsiders because these are learned islamic scholars

Well, the part about "all of them read it with a pure heart, only seeking truth in 'god's word'" is not really true. Most of them have personal agendas. Anyone can take any text and twist it to mean anything, especially when focusing on only one line out of context with the rest of verses. It's when people have their own personal agendas instead to seeking truth is when this happens.

Instead of looking at the people who practice the religion, look at the religion itself from a theoretical and academic point of view. Make sure your heart's intention is purely to seek truth, and not just to find ammunition against a religion. Then look at all religions and their real teachings, and not that portrayed by mass media, and see which one(s) make the most sense and most likely to be the real truth.

With the Quran, look at it's history, how it was revealed, how it was compiled, it's inimitable style of language, how people in Muhammad's time reacted to hearing verses of the Quran, the efforts in protecting it, and of course the verses themselves and their tasfir.

u missed my point completely

[16 cycles]

People live their lives bound by what they accept as "correct" and "true"

That's how they define "reality".

But what does it mean to be "correct" or "true?" These are vague concepts... No one stops to think that their "reality" may all be a mirage. .....

Itachi Uchicha....

[megadoc1]

the reason I asked this is because if the god of islam is all knowing and the quran is without erorr
why did the author of the Qur'an thought that Christians believe in three gods?(no they don't ) how come the god of the quran nor his messenger was aware that the concept of the trinity was formulated by Christians, as an attempt to make sense of what they believe regarding who God is and how he have been manifested ? they never believed there are three gods, nor did they ever believe God is one of three so where did the author of the quran get that from? this is a serious error! can you address this please ?.......thanks!

Firstly, the author of the Quran is Allah, the Creator, the God of Abraham, Moses and Jesus (your GOD the father as you call HIM and my ONE TRUE GOD). It is not befitting to HIS Majesty that you accuse HIM of having an erroneous thought.
Also, [Musa (Moses)] said: "The knowledge thereof is with my Lord, in a Record. My Lord is neither unaware nor He forgets. " Quran 20:52

my point is this the god of the quran and its author cannot be all knowing as long as they think that Christians believe in three gods it is a misunderstanding of what the Christians believe


Secondly, you said "the concept of the trinity was formulated by Christians, as an attempt to make sense of what they believe regarding who God is and how he have been manifested". Do you admit that the entire Christian faith is built on the belief of the Trinity which "was formulated" by man and NOT GOD??!!


No! that's why you should learn what Christians really believe ..the christian faith is not built on the trinity ,the trinity is a concept formulated as an attempt to explain the God head, why not learn what it is about? the entire christian faith is built on Jesus and who he claims to be.... John 8:24 "Itold you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am [the one I claim to be], you will indeed die in your sins."

Thirdly, "they never believed there are three gods, nor did they ever believe God is one of three". So what is the Trinity? Not God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit? Have you not elevated Jesus from man to GOD (or some to Son of GOD)? please tell me how you came up with three gods and I would show you how much you, just like the god of islam and the author of the quran have no Idea or the willingness to learn the Idea behind the trinity

To put it simply, if you say Jesus was more than a man (that he is God or a god to be worshipped or the Son of God who is the "Lord"), but in reality he is only a man (flesh and blood) then you have broken the first Commandment (Thou shalt have no other gods besides/before me) by worshipping what would be categorized as "other god".I believe that Jesus is both God and man but you would really have to look into what the christians believe before we go any further..look up hypóstasis or hypostatic union its another concept just like the trinity that christians use to explian the nature of christ

The modern belief in the trinity originated in the 4th century at the Council of Nicaea in approximately 325 C.E. King Constantine, the Roman Emperor and an adherent to paganism, presided over the Council. Its main purpose was to unite the Roman Empire by achieving agreement on Christian doctrine. This would promote a universal consolidation within the church. you are half way there if you really looked in to this you would see that there were many other concepts that were presented parallel to the trinity and were considered heretical, this council was established to affirm the trinity as the most accurate concept in explaining the God head ...at least you learned that it was done three hundred years after Christianity so how then can you say that the entire christian faith is built on the trinity?

History teaches that much later, after instituting a mandatory belief in the trinity, Constantine tried to be more tender and merciful with the decision, but it was too late. The Nicene Creed (also known as the Athenasian Creed) had taken hold. All who did not believe in the trinity doctrine were persecuted and killed. Every available instrument of torture was used on the nonbeliever. The Nicene Creed has since been amended, but it is still read today in many of the Protestant and Catholic churches. Those churches that associate themselves with the World Council of Churches now require belief in the trinity doctrine.
Source:http://www.2001translation.com/Trinity.html this is false ..it was not mandatory to believe in the trinity it was mandatory to become christian! whenever I am home I would write more on this

[Chimera]

I just have one lil question Adam, you believe that thing about the Quran coming straight from Allah and being brought down to earty by the angel Gabreel/Gabriel?

[AdamB]

I just have one lil question Adam, you believe that thing about the Quran coming straight from Allah and being brought down to earty by the angel Gabreel/Gabriel?

That's correct.
The Quran is the actual "Words of Allah" that HE spoke it himself (truly). Since HE is the Creator and HIS words are HIS attribute, the Quran is NOT created.
So Megadoc1's accusation of it containing errors, in itself is erroneous.

[MG Man]

can u prove that your book is the actual words of god?
and please dont quote the book as proof

[maj. tom]

^ LULZ. MG you still arguing with that man? His last post alone should show you that he is camel nuts and a complete lol-cow who is milked for the continuous lulz.

A non-lulz issue is that this guy is somewhere out there walking on the streets with many people just like him.