The Religion Discussion

[maj. tom]

Don't you all think that this satan fellow are just primitive "before science we used to believe everything anybody said, especially what someone made up and wrote in the book of Genesis" explanations for the psychology terms of Id, ego and super-ego?

don't you all think that satan is as imaginary as god as you all just using it as a poor excuse for your behaviours and actions and the psychology of human behaviour?

God seems to be very biased in your minds. he is good and exists when good things happen, but when bad things happen you all say "well god works in mysterious ways". If you flip a coin 5 million times, 50% of the time it will land on heads (good thing), and 50% on tails (bad thing). But somehow only when the heads show up, yahhh God did it, and it's good, pretty rainbows. When the tails show up, well that was mysterious! Or was it?

Will you people grow up! Those are stories for kids! You only believe in it because people have been brainwashing you from birth with those beliefs. What if you just think differently? what would happen? that's right! Nothing, the exact same thing if you believe in it. So if you pray to a goat or if you pray this god figure, the outcome will be the same statistically.

Remember brainwashing can be so effective that if you try to question yourself on what you have learnt you blackout and get confused, your entire foundation which you built your life on cannot collapse so your brain refuses it and you cannot get out of the box. The CIA and KGB have been doing that with their agents throughout the Cold War, and Al Qaeda very effectively trains their terrorists to carry out suicide acts without questioning.

oops, imaginary! what did i start here? oh well, nevermind. Outcry, flag, delete, etc. If you beat a dead donkey it ain't gonna bray. How does god know he is omniscient? Suppose there's a super-god above this god? Does god know what he is about to think next? LULZ

[mamoo_pagal]

"The earth is flat. Whoever claims it is round is an atheist deserving of punishment."
—Sheik Abdul-Aziz Ibn Baaz, supreme religious authority of Saudi Arabia, 1993 [1]

in islam, u not supposed to rely exclusively on leaders for interpretation. there are the two main codes of belief available, which are the quran and hadith. it is up to each individual to study these things and gain knowledge for themselves. if something confuses u, u can access those supposedly more knowledgeable persons for clarification. but they may misinterpret as well.every body is human, and subject to error.

I have no problem with this!!

but to each his own.......I done

[sMASH]

What is this thing called... satan? If god is all powerful, why not kill satan so he doh tempt us mortals to play up in we MC and go to hell

well, muslims believe that satan is here, and he is here to test humans and jinn.
on the day of judgement, that is when your test wold be evaluated, and u would be judged according to what u did in every situation. every situation from when u are robbed what u did, to if u get a extra change on a transaction, if u neighbor need a cussin up, to if u greet u mother with a welcoming tone, etc.

this is the true meaning of judgement day, u would actually be judged.

but that is what muslims believe, if u do not, then u do not, and what i say is no different that alice in wonderland or lord of the rings or any thing. so i eh fighting up.

[d spike]

BTW Jesus (on him be peace) said : "None of those who call me 'Lord' will enter the kingdom of God, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven."[Matthew 7:21]

I love the misquotation here. If you must quote any scripture (Christian or otherwise) try to stick with the actual quotation of one's preferred translation - not with what you think it ought to be.

There are many translations in THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE!!

Quite right. I have said so multiple times in this very thread.(Ummmm... have you read anything I wrote?) My actual request (if you care to re-read what I wrote) is:

If you must quote any scripture (Christian or otherwise) try to stick with the actual quotation of one's preferred translation

The content / meaning will be more or less the same.

Quite right! You get full marks there.

Quoted is the Catholic version...so your comment is directed to them...are they Christians or not?

"Catholic version"???? Really?? (Explain that when you can.)
Here is where your argument disintegrates. First of all, NONE of the translations accepted by mainstream or orthodox Christianity starts with the phrase, "None of those who call me...". This is but the rumination of a hopeful non-Christian's imagination.
Whether Catholics are Christians or not have nothing to do with your fictional quote.

Please quote YOUR preferred translation of that verse and explain what it means.

Just as you could quote multiple translations for the other fellow, why didn't you do so here? (You probably started to do so via "Google", then realized your error... )
Why did you not even suggest which quote this is? (Oh yes, you did... the vague "Catholic version"... Begging your pardon, but which is this?)

And for those who might be mildly interested (but not enough to research it themselves) the actual quote is mild variations along the line of “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’... "

[d spike]

Also, note that Jesus himself is recorded in the Gospel of John to have said, “I can do nothing of my own authority” (5:30). The miracles, therefore, were done not by his own authority, but by God’s authority.

When quoting scripture (from whatever religion's point of view) always quote the statement in context. This is a perfect example of quoting scripture out of context (I use this quote with my students). John 5:30 "By myself I can do nothing" seems to state exactly as AdamB suggests... However, when one reads the quote in context, one realizes the author was ONLY referring to Jesus' inability to CHANGE the ultimate judgment (sMASH was talking about this earlier).
28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. 30 By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me. 31 “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true. 32 There is another who testifies in my favor, and I know that his testimony about me is true.

[d spike]

[However, did the angel Jibreel say anything about Jesus Christ to Muhammed?

Read or search the Noble Qur'aan...angel Jibreel delivered the entire Qur'aan to Muhammad over a period of 23 years.

Jesus is mentioned more iin the Qur'aan than even Muhammad!!

Jesus spoke as a babe in the cradle to defend his chaste mother, who was accused of an extramarital affair that conceived him. The first words he spoke was "INNEE ABDULLAH" - "SURELY I AM A SLAVE (OR SERVANT) OF ALLAH. This statement nullifies the belief of those who say he is the SON OF GOD or GOD (as part of the TRINITY)!!

"He [Jesus] said: 'I am indeed a servant of God. He has given me revelation and made me a prophet; He has made me blessed wheresoever I be; and He has enjoined on me prayer and charity as long as I live. He has made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable. So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)!' Such was Jesus the son of Mary. It is a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute. It is not befitting to (the majesty of) God that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it, 'Be,' and it is" (QURAN 19:30-35).

For more check out this web site: http://islam.about.com/cs/jesus/f/jesus_quran.htm

John 8:58
Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

Jesus clearly says I AM!

There is no other other prophet in HISTORY who has made this claim. Jesus Christ is GOD. That is what differentiates him from all other false prophets.
John 14:6-7 - Jesus said to him, “I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”

Also I wanna say I am not discrediting any muslims in here. I know nothing about Muhammed nor Muslim. But according to scriptures and History Jesus Christ came and dies for us all so we could see heaven.

Confusing History (that which is generally accepted as having occurred in the past) and religious beliefs leads to problems, lad.
Your argument presents Jesus as a historical figure... something that can be debated.
The Christian scriptures show Jesus as the Son of God, while the Islamic scriptures show him as only a prophet... so presenting one's own scriptures to support one's own belief is what Duane's napkin's quote is all about.
Use logic instead - it is more suited to arguing one's point so that a sane, rational-thinking mind can appreciate your point of view.

[turbohead]

bluefete try doin some research before making assumptions, i will not deny the miracles of Jesus throught the will of God, but there are books written on the miracles of Muhammed(pbuh). one instance was in a battle where water was in scarcity and his companions feared for teh worst and asked him wat should be done, he made them bring a bowl and from his finger sprung water and they quenched their thirst and the army, their animals, and filled the pouches, this miracle is in comparison wit Moses(pbuh) when he knocked the staff on the mountain and out came a gushing spring, Muhammed(pbuh) posessed the knowledge of the unseen and he is th ebest of creation and none other to some after him, he posessed the miracles of all previous of him. i will get the name of the book on his miracles for you, i cant remember it off hand.

[AdamB]

BTW Jesus (on him be peace) said : "None of those who call me 'Lord' will enter the kingdom of God, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven."[Matthew 7:21]

I love the misquotation here. If you must quote any scripture (Christian or otherwise) try to stick with the actual quotation of one's preferred translation - not with what you think it ought to be.

There are many translations in THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE!!

Quite right. I have said so multiple times in this very thread.(Ummmm... have you read anything I wrote?) My actual request (if you care to re-read what I wrote) is:

If you must quote any scripture (Christian or otherwise) try to stick with the actual quotation of one's preferred translation

The content / meaning will be more or less the same.

Quite right! You get full marks there.

Quoted is the Catholic version...so your comment is directed to them...are they Christians or not?

"Catholic version"???? Really?? (Explain that when you can.)
Here is where your argument disintegrates. First of all, NONE of the translations accepted by mainstream or orthodox Christianity starts with the phrase, "None of those who call me...". This is but the rumination of a hopeful non-Christian's imagination.
Whether Catholics are Christians or not have nothing to do with your fictional quote.

Please quote YOUR preferred translation of that verse and explain what it means.

Just as you could quote multiple translations for the other fellow, why didn't you do so here? (You probably started to do so via "Google", then realized your error... )
Why did you not even suggest which quote this is? (Oh yes, you did... the vague "Catholic version"... Begging your pardon, but which is this?)

And for those who might be mildly interested (but not enough to research it themselves) the actual quote is mild variations along the line of “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’... "

You're right, I dont frequently use the bible so i dont have a "preferred translation" but it was quoted from a Catholic Forum, see http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=56032. I didn't expect there to be a problem which is why I raise the point of having the original script and language that the book was revealed in, so that we can refer differences back to it.

I am disappointed though that you did not post the complete corrected translation.

So the correct translation in context is:
21 "Not every one who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' 23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.'

Kindly explain to me why these "many" christians would do these mighty works IN JESUS' NAME but yet they would be denied the kingdom of heaven and call them evildoers?

BTW Muslims don't do these things in the name of Jesus but we do the Will of ALLAH (the father)...so we good to go then!!

[AdamB]

Confusing History (that which is generally accepted as having occurred in the past) and religious beliefs leads to problems, lad.
Your argument presents Jesus as a historical figure... something that can be debated.
The Christian scriptures show Jesus as the Son of God, while the Islamic scriptures show him as only a prophet... so presenting one's own scriptures to support one's own belief is what Duane's napkin's quote is all about.
Use logic instead - it is more suited to arguing one's point so that a sane, rational-thinking mind can appreciate your point of view.

Good point, that's why I asked before "NOT HOW BUT RATHER WHY DOES GOD NEED A SON?" Is it that HE is incapable or gets tired or difficulty in controlling the affairs of HIS Creation? Think about it ...with a RATIONAL MIND!! Then you'll appreciate my point of view.

[AdamB]

Muhammed(pbuh) posessed the knowledge of the unseen and he is the best of creation and none other to some after him, he posessed the miracles of all previous of him. i will get the name of the book on his miracles for you, i cant remember it off hand.

Assalaamu 'alaikum,
Please be careful about the statements you make, cause a couple look questionable "posessed the knowledge of the unseen and he posessed the miracles of all previous of him"

We learn from the Qur’an that God alone hasknowledge of the Unseen. As the Qur’an states:

‘‘He alone has knowledge of what is hidden: His secrets He reveals to none.” (72:26)

The Qur’an has repeatedly made it clear that the Prophet of Islam was not given full knowledge of the world unseen. On certain occasions God revealed something of the unseen world in advance to the Prophet through the angel Gabriel, for instance, the result of the Hudaybiya treaty in the form of a ‘clear victory’ (chapter 48). But he was not given the power to acquire knowledge of the unseen on his own. This is demonstrated by thefollowing verses from the Qur’an:

‘‘Had I possessed knowledge of what is hidden, I would have availed myself of much that is good.”(7:188)“I do not say to you that I possess God’s treasuresand I do not know what is hidden.”

(11:31)

“Say: ‘God alone has knowledge of what is hidden.Wait if you will: I too am one of those who wait.”’(10:20)

“These are announcements of the unseen which we reveal to you; neither you nor your people knew them.” (11:49)

These and other verses of this nature prove clearly that the Prophet of Islam had not, been given knowledge of the unseen. God’s law for the Prophet’was that he was given only those things essential tothe discharging of his responsibilities as a Prophet. As this task did not relate to the metaphysical, he required no knowledge of the unseen.

[AdamB]

that's SIR MG Mannnnnnn!!!!an!!an!!nananaananananannnnnn!!! to you eh

Yes SIR MG Mannnnnnn!!!!an!!an!! anaananananannnnnn!!!... now bend over beyotch *thwack*

The Qur'an tells the story of the Prophet Luqman and the advice that he gave his son:

“Oh my son! Establish regular prayer, enjoin what is just, and forbid what is wrong, and bear with patient constancy whatever befalls you, for this is firmness in the conduct of affairs. And swell not your cheek for pride at men, nor walk in insolence through the earth, for Allah loves not any arrogant boaster. And be moderate in your pace, and lower your voice, for the harshest of sounds, without doubt, is the braying of the donkey” (Qur'an 31:17–19).

HEED THE INSTRUCTION / ADVICE OF YOUR CREATOR!!!!!!!!!!!

[maj. tom]

^ Adam B, yes the past 24 hours of your posts show that you're a fanatical nut job with no tolerance for the make believe stories of other folks. You think your make believe fascinations and brainwashing alone is true and right.

What do you go around and see goats preaching about grass and water, or plants flying planes into buildings because of sunlight? No, they have more tolerance than you!

[MG Man]

that's SIR MG Mannnnnnn!!!!an!!an!!nananaananananannnnnn!!! to you eh

Yes SIR MG Mannnnnnn!!!!an!!an!! anaananananannnnnn!!!... now bend over beyotch *thwack*

The Qur'an tells the story of the Prophet Luqman and the advice that he gave his son:

“Oh my son! Establish regular prayer, enjoin what is just, and forbid what is wrong, and bear with patient constancy whatever befalls you, for this is firmness in the conduct of affairs. And swell not your cheek for pride at men, nor walk in insolence through the earth, for Allah loves not any arrogant boaster. And be moderate in your pace, and lower your voice, for the harshest of sounds, without doubt, is the braying of the donkey” (Qur'an 31:17–19).

HEED THE INSTRUCTION / ADVICE OF YOUR CREATOR!!!!!!!!!!!

I sense you are lonely
For one time only, I will waiver my fee and offer you a night of wild rapture like your angus has never known..........cuddling afterward optional

[Humes]

maj. tom, have you taken your protein pills?

[AdamB]

Sorry...will pass but you could have fun with your "scientific discovery / crossdrilling". Don't want to break up the happy couple. Not what GOD wants!!

[MG Man]

Sorry...will pass but you could have fun with your "scientific discovery / crossdrilling". Don't want to break up the happy couple. Not what GOD wants!!

it's more of an intimate awakening than a scientific discovery, and I can assure you your angus will be spiritually liberated

[RBphoto]

that's SIR MG Mannnnnnn!!!!an!!an!!nananaananananannnnnn!!! to you eh

Yes SIR MG Mannnnnnn!!!!an!!an!! anaananananannnnnn!!!... now bend over beyotch *thwack*

The Qur'an tells the story of the Prophet Luqman and the advice that he gave his son:

“Oh my son! Establish regular prayer, enjoin what is just, and forbid what is wrong, and bear with patient constancy whatever befalls you, for this is firmness in the conduct of affairs. And swell not your cheek for pride at men, nor walk in insolence through the earth, for Allah loves not any arrogant boaster. And be moderate in your pace, and lower your voice, for the harshest of sounds, without doubt, is the braying of the donkey” (Qur'an 31:17–19).

HEED THE INSTRUCTION / ADVICE OF YOUR CREATOR!!!!!!!!!!!

[bigfontingtime]

Is Donkey punch yuh talking about there bother B?

[/bigfonting time]

[MG Man]

I not even sure he know what he talkin about

[AdamB]

[
[size=150]I sense you are lonely[/size]

MG,
What you have a 6th sense now??!!!
Can you prove that scientifically? Or use that "sense" to feel / know that there exists a CREATOR?

I think there's a PATENT pending for the Napkin theory, so try something else!!

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Please stick to the topic fellas
We can all discuss our ideas and point-of-view like adults.

[AdamB]

I not even sure

Yuh sure right yuh NOT EVEN SURE!!

In their hearts is a disease (of doubt and hypocrisy) and Allah has increased their disease. A painful torment is theirs because they used to tell lies. (Noble Quran 2:10).

[MG Man]

circular logic much?

[RBphoto]

Please stick to the topic fellas
We can all discuss our ideas and point-of-view like adults.

OK ......breddaman.

[sMASH]

Please stick to the topic fellas
We can all discuss our ideas and point-of-view like adults.

yesss missss, sorry missss.

[Humes]

Please stick to the topic fellas
We can all discuss our ideas and point-of-view like adults.

You mean we *should*, right?

Because I eh sure some of these fellas capable of adult thought processes.

[AdamB]

Homosexuals are a subset of Adults, called Adult Homosexuals!!

[TRAE]

i believe in a god, reason being is that its better to trust in something than have your faith all over... just now differences between good and evil will be swallowed by the legal system to a point where everything can be justified... history repeats itself, we fcking weself right now

[AdamB]

Don't you all think that this satan fellow are just primitive "before science we used to believe everything anybody said, especially what someone made up and wrote in the book of Genesis" explanations for the psychology terms of Id, ego and super-ego?

don't you all think that satan is as imaginary as god as you all just using it as a poor excuse for your behaviours and actions and the psychology of human behaviour?

God seems to be very biased in your minds. he is good and exists when good things happen, but when bad things happen you all say "well god works in mysterious ways". If you flip a coin 5 million times, 50% of the time it will land on heads (good thing), and 50% on tails (bad thing). But somehow only when the heads show up, yahhh God did it, and it's good, pretty rainbows. When the tails show up, well that was mysterious! Or was it?

Will you people grow up! Those are stories for kids! You only believe in it because people have been brainwashing you from birth with those beliefs. What if you just think differently? what would happen? that's right! Nothing, the exact same thing if you believe in it. So if you pray to a goat or if you pray this god figure, the outcome will be the same statistically.

Remember brainwashing can be so effective that if you try to question yourself on what you have learnt you blackout and get confused, your entire foundation which you built your life on cannot collapse so your brain refuses it and you cannot get out of the box. The CIA and KGB have been doing that with their agents throughout the Cold War, and Al Qaeda very effectively trains their terrorists to carry out suicide acts without questioning.

oops, imaginary! what did i start here? oh well, nevermind. Outcry, flag, delete, etc. If you beat a dead donkey it ain't gonna bray. How does god know he is omniscient? Suppose there's a super-god above this god? Does god know what he is about to think next? LULZ

Maj tom,
Will update you later on the belief concerning GOD and Satan but you seem to be not sure...trying to convince yourself...

Why do you assume that we have not thought? Possibly the theories or explanations you have been exposed to do not make sense...so you dismiss everything...that does not mean that the perfectly rational explanation is not out there waiting to be discovered by you BUT known by millions of people. Or that you just didn't get it and many others did...

[Humes]

i believe in a god, reason being is that its better to trust in something than have your faith all over... just now differences between good and evil will be swallowed by the legal system to a point where everything can be justified... history repeats itself, we fcking weself right now

Morality and legality are two different things.

You can be a non-believer and have an ethical code that is independent of both supernatural belief and society's laws.

In fact, most believers have the same.

Religious texts justify all kinda evil and backward sh1t as morally acceptable. If people didn't have independent ethical codes, the world would be as f*cked up today as it was when those books were being written.

[AdamB]

^ Adam B, yes the past 24 hours of your posts show that you're a fanatical nut job with no tolerance for the make believe stories of other folks. You think your make believe fascinations and brainwashing alone is true and right.

What do you go around and see goats preaching about grass and water, or plants flying planes into buildings because of sunlight? No, they have more tolerance than you!

Maj tom bro,
Isn't this a thread for persons of differing views to express them so that we can appreciate where others are coming from? I believe in mine AND disbelieve in others because I have my reasons and I try to present my arguments "in ways that are best".

If I believe that worshipping partners with GOD (like Jesus) and not believing in GOD will lead persons to the fire of hell...that's my belief which I am entitled to have.
If it turns out to be true, then wouldn't I be SELFISH not to warn others. That doesn't mean that I am not tolerant...because I was there once, a science buff who swallowed the "big bang theory", didn't believe in the existence of a god! So where this "flying airplanes into buildings" come from...what about Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Jones, Sai Baba, etc. Individuals of every faith are human and make mistakes, some small, some big.

So I agree, let's stop with the braying and discuss like adults!!