***The Official Rapid Rail Thread***

[matix]

Why not? You like to bully people on the forum, why not try it in person.

[desifemlove]

i don't bully anybody. on here or in real life. i'm only ever antagonistic to those who are to me...like all ah them.

[Redman]

How much more of whatever do you think can fit into POS-
without turning the capital int something that we dont want...

BTW what kind of city DO we want POS to be?

Shouldnt that be decided before we embark on the biggest project in our history?

[bluesclues]

I'm suggesting a cook out you fool. Get together with fellow tuners and voice those opinions that you have.

I would do jamaican beef patties for the cookout but my pastry dough needs some work. Ntot gettin the flaky crust i lookin for. But anyway if u really want to do this, u will have to search all the indians present for cutlass, search the negroes fr gun, and if anybody say they from couva make sure ur car locked and the alarm armed at all times and check on it periodically.

[Numb3r4]

This thread is still going.....we're not building a rapid rail.....we're building a hotel now....

[De Dragon]

How much more of whatever do you think can fit into POS-
without turning the capital int something that we dont want...

BTW what kind of city DO we want POS to be?

Shouldnt that be decided before we embark on the biggest project in our history?

POS is already sheit in terms of everything. Nasty, flooding, vagrants, crime. But as Rowley said why the hell should someone have to go to Caroni for a driver's permit He is not alone in his outmoded views and, once that elitist, stupid view prevails, we will never have a capital city of any worth.

[Redman]

I think falls back to the possibility that the Real Estate in POS are proping up too many balance sheets of too many otherwise weak financials.

We need to start with an agreement with what we want.
For the Country.
For The economy.

Get a development policy-yes 2020 was that-but not politicized .
And implement the actions accordingly.

No one has been able to justify the RR with numbers. and the risk is exponentially worse since both parties are adept at completing projects that are poorly conceived,executed and over priced.

We talk about DIVERSIFICATION ....but ignore the GEOGRAPHIC diversification that will broadly impact the most people,in the most ways while making faking sense.

Simple,
More wealthier people in more locations result in more business and more economic stability.
Every one wins.

But both parties are owned by the same crowd.
And regardless of the music played-do the same dance.

[desifemlove]

I think falls back to the possibility that the Real Estate in POS are proping up too many balance sheets of too many otherwise weak financials.

We need to start with an agreement with what we want.
For the Country.
For The economy.

Get a development policy-yes 2020 was that-but not politicized .
And implement the actions accordingly.

No one has been able to justify the RR with numbers. and the risk is exponentially worse since both parties are adept at completing projects that are poorly conceived,executed and over priced.

We talk about DIVERSIFICATION ....but ignore the GEOGRAPHIC diversification that will broadly impact the most people,in the most ways while making faking sense.

Simple,
More wealthier people in more locations result in more business and more economic stability.
Every one wins.

But both parties are owned by the same crowd.
And regardless of the music played-do the same dance.

haha..tell me then how countries develop or progress? it's many little baby steps. a rail system could work, but the idea is sound. PNM or UNC, yuh have to agree that based on any common economic rationale, a country develops by infrastructure. it's the same as bringing water to South, or building the Gran Bazaar interchange, or the Grande highway, or the Pt. Fortin highway. or this broadband thing PNM is bringing in, it's all to the same end. people who oppose the rapid rail or any developmental agenda don't understand the big picture and tink the country deserves to be small and poor.

[shake d livin wake d dead]

You do know there are third world countries with train systems and they catching they arse right....

[De Dragon]

You do know there are third world countries with train systems and they catching they arse right....

According to him, if you build a rail system, everything will magically be alright This while we talking about sustainable development in a country that has precious little of that to boast about.

[desifemlove]

You do know there are third world countries with train systems and they catching they arse right....

eh? oh, cos of wars, corruption, many other issues. you're right, better infrastructure alone won't help things, but it's a step that any country needs to take. if we diversify away from oil and gas, into ICT or high-tech manufacturing or other things both parties have said, we need all other aspects to sustain that. including a rail system or some other transport system. this isn't just some random ting I saying, it's proven studies and observation from many countries around the world. UAE, China, Taiwan, Korea, Japan, even established countries like Germany, USA, UK, France, better infrastructure is key to better economy in the long-term.

those who don't get this, simply ent that smart nor educated.....may seem rude, but it's true.

[drchaos]

You do know there are third world countries with train systems and they catching they arse right....

eh? oh, cos of wars, corruption, many other issues. you're right, better infrastructure alone won't help things, but it's a step that any country needs to take. if we diversify away from oil and gas, into ICT or high-tech manufacturing or other things both parties have said, we need all other aspects to sustain that. including a rail system or some other transport system. this isn't just some random ting I saying, it's proven studies and observation from many countries around the world. UAE, China, Taiwan, Korea, Japan, even established countries like Germany, USA, UK, France, better infrastructure is key to better economy in the long-term.

those who don't get this, simply ent that smart nor educated.....may seem rude, but it's true.

Desi you overthinking this ...
All those countries you mentioned above have economic scale that makes Trinidad look like an ant hill. Train systems do well there to grow economy because they manufacture and they produce. They also have large amounts of land that they need access to.
Trinidad is tiny ... Our manufacturing capacity and diversity is going no where anytime soon.
The only thing we need a mass transit system for is to move people and Rail is probably the most expensive way to do that. At most we need a Rapid bus transit system.
In the end any system that you put in place will be used by the poorer half of the economy ... will be snubbed buy the richer half and will turn out to be something we are probably not proud of.

[Redman]

better infrastructure is key to better economy in the long-term.

Wrong.

Its the benefits of USING the infrastructure that enable economic growth/quality of life.

So what we need is to enable those that need to... to spend less non productive time between home and work..A/B ...Destinations

To do so we can...
Reduce the volume of traffic via user based methods-Flexi time,tele commuting ,car pooling..REAL GEOGRAPHIC ..DECENTRALIZATION,Business Decent,GORTT Decent etc.

WHICH WE NEED TO DO ANYFRIGGIN HOW

OR

Build out 'Infrastructure'-what does this mean?
There are multiple ideas that can be analyzed,tested and implemented or terminated based on the results.
All for less time ,money and dislocation to the population than the RR.
We have existing Infrastructure that is under utilized
We have the Gulf of Paria there that is EASILY leveraged

Putting the RR down does not equate to Development.....
In the same way that we have stadiums and crappy sports admin that makes the stadiums pointless...
Like the Govt Complex was a waste because it wasnt used...not leveraged to the benefit of the population
Brian Lara Stadium,The Pt Fortin Hway Abortion, etc etc etc-


What is development is having an efficient systems that work with our Economic,Geographic and Cultural realities That makes our lives better.
All of the above

those who don't get this, simply ent that smart nor educated.....may seem rude, but it's true.

Yep this is true-your posts prove this.

[desifemlove]

better infrastructure is key to better economy in the long-term.

Wrong.

Its the benefits of USING the infrastructure that enable economic growth/quality of life.

So what we need is to enable those that need to... to spend less non productive time between home and work..A/B ...Destinations

To do so we can...
Reduce the volume of traffic via user based methods-Flexi time,tele commuting ,car pooling..REAL GEOGRAPHIC ..DECENTRALIZATION,Business Decent,GORTT Decent etc.

WHICH WE NEED TO DO ANYFRIGGIN HOW

OR

Build out 'Infrastructure'-what does this mean?
There are multiple ideas that can be analyzed,tested and implemented or terminated based on the results.
All for less time ,money and dislocation to the population than the RR.
We have existing Infrastructure that is under utilized
We have the Gulf of Paria there that is EASILY leveraged

Putting the RR down does not equate to Development.....
In the same way that we have stadiums and crappy sports admin that makes the stadiums pointless...
Like the Govt Complex was a waste because it wasnt used...not leveraged to the benefit of the population
Brian Lara Stadium,The Pt Fortin Hway Abortion, etc etc etc-


What is development is having an efficient systems that work with our Economic,Geographic and Cultural realities That makes our lives better.
All of the above

look at how economies progress. it's due to better infrastructure on every level. educational, utitilies, transport, telecoms, internet. what government complex, it hasn't opened yet and is building over past ten years. and i like how you does single out the PNM projects..haha....what did you hindu government do then? this is why hindu/indo doh get it, they can't see how economies around the world develop, and want to live provincially and tink we can get by wit selling pepper sauce and growing crops and selling dat overseas.

a smart man like you, with plenty schooling like you say, should have appreciation for waht it takes to progress an economy. rail system alone may not do it, but some system like this is a positive step forward. look even if she won last year and didn't need a petition, she would have done similar, which is a better plan imho http://unctt.org/20-pledges-for-2020-ka ... nd-tobago/

those who don't get this, simply ent that smart nor educated.....may seem rude, but it's true.

Yep this is true-your posts prove this.[/quote]

like you don't get basic econ concepts, and try to lecture people here on them....cool. read some econ books/texts, or comprehend how an economy works.

[Redman]

when school starting back?

I just used GORTT projects---What have we gotten for the total money spent on them???

You can continue to try to differentiate in what ever makes you feel good about yourself.

Mean while we have a window to do as much as we can to get better prepared for the future.

[sMASH]

rapid rail supporters = people who will take an audi, hyundai, vw, on terms, while renting or aiming for a HDC house instead of buying a cheap car and putting the extra towards a house.

all the pros u guys say are correct. but the cost to implement is not worth those pros, especially when decentralization, better road network better kept bus network will achieve all what u want the tram to do.

decentralization would have the added benefit of spreading the spending to other regions of the country and not imposing extreme concentration of traffic to sando and PoS alone.
the improved road networks would also be available for use by other road users, making it more value for the money spent. when the tram system will only be able to move some people and some goods at specific times.

to expand on the versatility of a better road network for a small island, if the tram shuts down, all those people will be delayed. so for the IT people, u will not be fault tolerant. road networks-just go around.


what the video highlighted, the best rail systems are 50% subsidized so it continues to be a burden, compared to the operational cost of roads which is not even nearly as much to maintain. and roads are being built better now.
and, the rails are only marginally faster than road networks, even with its faster speed and dedicated lane.



summary; high cost, low benefit, not fault tolerant, high operational cost, still subsidized, doesn't expand business to other areas .

[desifemlove]

when school starting back?

I just used GORTT projects---What have we gotten for the total money spent on them???

You can continue to try to differentiate in what ever makes you feel good about yourself.

Mean while we have a window to do as much as we can to get better prepared for the future.

haha.eh? you saying it's not worth it. you've said time and again you're an economist with international experience, but then you disagree with the basic rationale behind a rail or bus system. these two points don't go together...

[eliteauto]

better infrastructure is key to better economy in the long-term.

Wrong.

Its the benefits of USING the infrastructure that enable economic growth/quality of life.

So what we need is to enable those that need to... to spend less non productive time between home and work..A/B ...Destinations

To do so we can...
Reduce the volume of traffic via user based methods-Flexi time,tele commuting ,car pooling..REAL GEOGRAPHIC ..DECENTRALIZATION,Business Decent,GORTT Decent etc.

WHICH WE NEED TO DO ANYFRIGGIN HOW

OR

Build out 'Infrastructure'-what does this mean?
There are multiple ideas that can be analyzed,tested and implemented or terminated based on the results.
All for less time ,money and dislocation to the population than the RR.
We have existing Infrastructure that is under utilized
We have the Gulf of Paria there that is EASILY leveraged

Putting the RR down does not equate to Development.....
In the same way that we have stadiums and crappy sports admin that makes the stadiums pointless...
Like the Govt Complex was a waste because it wasnt used...not leveraged to the benefit of the population
Brian Lara Stadium,The Pt Fortin Hway Abortion, etc etc etc-


What is development is having an efficient systems that work with our Economic,Geographic and Cultural realities That makes our lives better.
All of the above

those who don't get this, simply ent that smart nor educated.....may seem rude, but it's true.

Yep this is true-your posts prove this.

Well thought out post

[Redman]

when school starting back?

I just used GORTT projects---What have we gotten for the total money spent on them???

You can continue to try to differentiate in what ever makes you feel good about yourself.

Mean while we have a window to do as much as we can to get better prepared for the future.

haha.eh? you saying it's not worth it. you've said time and again you're an economist with international experience, but then you disagree with the basic rationale behind a rail or bus system. these two points don't go together...

you and blues clues smoking,rubbing,injecting,sniffing or using the same enema tube?

Never said anything of the sort.
post links

No I disagree with the position that the RR is necessary for development...it isnt.
Until some one shows a recent and relevant study showing that it is...

And they are not worth it...unless we get usage out of them.

[desifemlove]

cool. but then all I say is that development good and allyuh say different and i cyah say dat...haha...cool.

[Redman]

We havent looked at whether the same benefits that the RR brings in terms of Development are available with another mode of mass transit.

At least I havent seen any evidence of this.

Keep in mind that ALL the failed projects were decided upon and approved by cabinet.
And mis managed by state enterprises like..Udecott and NIDCO.

and now nidco has the gall to send out a tender??
thats like a rapist coming back for a stinky finger.

[desifemlove]

haha....ok. i saying that infrastructure improvements are universally seen as requisite for economic growth. you are saying they not, and we too small and we should stay as is. so i'm a bad person for saying dat which is true hahahhhahhaahha....thanks dudes.

[Redman]

No I'm saying that IMHO the RR isn't the right infrastructure.

I'm happy to be convinced otherwise with proper analysis.
Not the say so of the body CABINET.

Not as a political football.

[sMASH]

i am definitely saying rail is a stupid means to achieve development in this country. that is unless u have money to burn. if u do, then by all means go ahead. if u have to manage a budget wisely, then it is an unwise direction to go.

[sMASH]

all the flooding in PoS, u all still want to cram so much of the working population into that small area, and with a limited inflexible mode of transport? any lil ting on the the tram line or cars, and u have so many people delayed. any lil piece of rain, and u have many people stranded.

[desifemlove]

same could happen on a bus system. this doh mean that it's not something that will add value, either rail or bus system.

[sMASH]

A bus can seek an alternate route

[*$kїđž!™]

Where the rapid rail from their manifesto?...they real sell that sheit for elections boy.

[The_Honourable]

Where the rapid rail from their manifesto?...they real sell that sheit for elections boy.

The plan was scrapped...

The IMF told Imbert nope. Then the IADB in a report blank the GOTT in early 2016 saying it is not feasible and proposed the Bus Rapid Transit or BRT as it was found to be superior in 10/14 key criterias then matching in two others versus a rail system. If the Government did agree to this alternative, the IADB were willing to support and fund a BRT system.

Of course, politics trumps everything. Because Stephen Cadiz and the PP was correct in their assessment a few years before that the BRT would be a far better alternative especially in terms of costs, PNM decided that they will do nothing period in upgrading the mass transit system using the economic downturn as an excuse instead of a "PP" idea coming to fruition.

[De Dragon]

Where the rapid rail from their manifesto?...they real sell that sheit for elections boy.

The plan was scrapped...

The IMF told Imbert nope. Then the IADB in a report blank the GOTT in early 2016 saying it is not feasible and proposed the Bus Rapid Transit or BRT as it was found to be superior in 10/14 key criterias then matching in two others versus a rail system. If the Government did agree to this alternative, the IADB were willing to support and fund a BRT system.

Of course, politics trumps everything. Because Stephen Cadiz and the PP was correct in their assessment a few years before that the BRT would be a far better alternative especially in terms of costs, PNM decided that they will do nothing period in upgrading the mass transit system using the economic downturn as an excuse instead of a "PP" idea coming to fruition.

Also the skim was going to be substantially less...............