The Religion Discussion

[d spike]

mediahouse, how can you assume one's religion by their name?

if ah man name mohammed baksh would you say hes a hindu? of course not
just like is ah man name ganesh maraj you wont say hes a muslim now would you?
so if duan title happens to be boodasingh then possibly he can be hindu or bhuddist .
thats a fair assumption .

Plus many times i tell people my name and they say " oh so u is ah muslim"

so whats your point ??

Well, unless K74T knows your muslim-sounding name... or mediahouse is a muslim name that I wasn't aware of... making that last statement was rather witless...

Plus many times i tell people my name and they say " oh so u is ah muslim"

You should refrain from disclosing your name to shallow folk.

ok so if alluh ent believe in ah god what about supernatural stuff like obeah, spirits , jins etc?

What about them?

[mediahouse]

[d spike]

^^ how can u say mediahouse is attached to a person name bro and then say it can be belong to a religion .? mediahouse is just ah username not a person name your statement dey witless

(sigh)
Thanks for displaying your absolute lack of humour... (in this forum you are known by your username... thus reference to your name would be... forget it. Anyway, I would strongly advise you not to stay away from words like "witless" until you learn what it means.)

check out this video and tell me if you notice anything strange and if you can debunk .it i was personally there and witnessed what was goin on .

Can't. Sorry.
I will just have to wait until someone here who can view this video (and is capable of using English) gives a written description of what it contains.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

ok so if alluh ent believe in ah god what about supernatural stuff like obeah, spirits , jins etc?

Only MG Man said he doesnt believe God exists.

ABA Trading said his God is the Flying Spaghetti Monster and he prays to His noodly appendage

No one else in this conversation has claimed they don't believe in a God. But for some reason because people are questioning or using logic and the logic is not cohesive with religious teachings this comes across to you are atheism?

[Kasey]

well wey u expec dwayne? dis man only livin the righteous life cause he fraid he arse get blaze.

[MG Man]

ok so if alluh ent believe in ah god what about supernatural stuff like obeah, spirits , jins etc?

what does one have to do with the other?
you are just listing phenomena that we do not currently have explanations for
sinple as that
there was a time when moving objects in the sky were supernatural...so were thunder and lightning......

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ the Norse God of thunder is Thor - religious people once believed he was the one who made lightning - and people believed this as their religion for centuries!

[turbohead]

very interesting vid... this scholar will be in trinidad 2 do a few lectures if anyone is interested in listening...

[sMASH]

oh, i see it now... cool, just wanted other people's view on that statement,

[rspann]

The best thing about God,is that he does not need any confirmation, support,defence or proof from anyone for his existence.God is infinite and cannot be understood or defined by finite minds.

[rspann]

The best thing about God,is that he does not need any confirmation, support,defence or proof from anyone for his existence.God is infinite and cannot be understood or defined by finite minds.

[Chimera]

The best thing about God,is that he does not need any confirmation, support,defence or proof from anyone for his existence.God is infinite and cannot be understood or defined by finite minds.

Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good BS story. Holy sheit! - George Carlin

[rspann]

The best thing about God,is that he does not need any confirmation, support,defence or proof from anyone for his existence.God is infinite and cannot be understood or defined by finite minds.

Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good BS story. Holy sheit! - George Carlin

People have a right to think like this with all the sheit most if not all,those preachers talk,its always about money or retribution if you dont give them their way.I was talking about real religion which is about loving your neighbour as yourself and not that BS you hear from most of those "holy men".

[d spike]

The best thing about God,is that he does not need any confirmation, support,defence or proof from anyone for his existence.God is infinite and cannot be understood or defined by finite minds.

No rspann. You are clearly in awe of something greater than you, and (don't get me wrong) there is nothing wrong with that.
However, your statement is wrong. The best thing about God is that He ensures that there is no proof of His existence... no one is forced to accept Him... we, the created, can live our lives and share in His Creation without being burdened by the demand to acclaim Him (except for mediahouse, of course)...
...the best thing about God is that He leaves us free to choose to acknowledge Him, free to approach Him however we see fit, to call Him whatever name we think best...

That is what Love is. Giving freely, accepting freely.

[Bizzare]

I hope some of you guys in here claiming what God is like... and how God is... etc etc, are not writing from a biblical standpoint, cuz the bible itself calls some of you in here idolaters. Creating your own God. Giving him qualities and attributes that the bible never mentioned. Explaining how God thinks and how he operates which is contrary to the bible to confirm your beliefs.

So I hope some of you in here are not bible believers cuz by the bible's admission, some of you have been creating your own God for the past few pages jus to feel comfortable with yourselves

[Kasey]

^^yup that's Megaduck allright.

[d spike]

I hope some of you guys in here claiming what God is like... and how God is... etc etc, are not writing from a biblical standpoint, cuz the bible itself calls some of you in here idolaters. Creating your own God. Giving him qualities and attributes that the bible never mentioned. Explaining how God thinks and how he operates which is contrary to the bible to confirm your beliefs.

So I hope some of you in here are not bible believers cuz by the bible's admission, some of you have been creating your own God for the past few pages jus to feel comfortable with yourselves

Well, if you are going to swallow everything in the bible wholesale, you are going to end up in a certifiable mess, as the bible is simply a massive collection of writings, made up of many books, written by people who differed in outlook, religious beliefs, and culture. There are writings within the bible that contradict other writings within the bible...
So using the bible as a yardstick to judge other people is just another way of helping yourself to misunderstand what this life is all about - certainly not the idea the writers of those very scriptures had in mind when they composed their prose...

[Bizzare]

I hope some of you guys in here claiming what God is like... and how God is... etc etc, are not writing from a biblical standpoint, cuz the bible itself calls some of you in here idolaters. Creating your own God. Giving him qualities and attributes that the bible never mentioned. Explaining how God thinks and how he operates which is contrary to the bible to confirm your beliefs.

So I hope some of you in here are not bible believers cuz by the bible's admission, some of you have been creating your own God for the past few pages jus to feel comfortable with yourselves

Well, if you are going to swallow everything in the bible wholesale, you are going to end up in a certifiable mess, as the bible is simply a massive collection of writings, made up of many books, written by people who differed in outlook, religious beliefs, and culture. There are writings within the bible that contradict other writings within the bible...
So using the bible as a yardstick to judge other people is just another way of helping yourself to misunderstand what this life is all about - certainly not the idea the writers of those very scriptures had in mind when they composed their prose...

This is your opinion. My post went out to believers of the bible though. And you can't be a believer of the bible halfheartedly. The bible itself said so. It's either you're a believer or not. What you said about the bible, is not what the bible itself says. Kinda confusing / contradicting huh? Therefore, you are NOT a believer of the bible and are free to believe in whatever you would like to, whether it aligns with what the bible says or not.

You've created your own book. I recommend you pull the portions of the bible which you believe to be true (since you don't intend to swallow it's every word "wholesale") and write your own book. I think the Jehovah witnesses have done so already, but please do believers a favor, and do not call that book the bible.... like they did too.

I can't tell you that you've created your own God, cuz I'd be disrespecting your belief of who God is. So my post was meant for my fellow believers, warning them of their idolatrous behavior in case they haven't noticed they were doing so.

[turbohead]

abba i take it you didnt watch the vid?

[sensiman]

The bible itself said so.

1: What exactly is it that you are referring that the bible says?

2: Please quote where in the bible it says "so"

[d spike]

This is your opinion.

Actually, no.
This is the opinion of the majority of scholars, whether religious or not. If you wish to further this discussion with me, then I would advise you to be more accurate in your remarks.

[MG Man]

abba i take it you didnt watch the vid?

he probably too polite to tell you that vid is a crock of sheit
of all the 'god exists' arguments, this is one of the weakest............the assumption is that all this wonderfully complex wonderment needed to be created by an entity even more complex..........the question then is.............who created that being and laid down the laws and fundamental rules under which he / it operates?
you cannot say he / it cannot be created / always existed etc because it contradicts your very own argument.............
he is also incorrect in stating that atheists believe in nothing
and finally, science has proven that something CAN pop into existence out of nothing

[megadoc1]

hi d spike!!!!

Well, if you are going to swallow everything in the bible wholesale, you are going to end up in a certifiable mess,

are you saying that Christians are people living in a certifiable mess??? because the last time I checked they swallow everything in the bible wholesale...

as the bible is simply a massive collection of writings, made up of many books,

wasn't this the reason its called the bible ...(the books or collection of books) whats your point?

written by people who differed in outlook, religious beliefs, and culture.

these are the same people whom the God of the bible claims to be His creation right?
whats the problem then? is he not God of all as they all claim? if they all came from him why can't this very statement be used as evidence that he is really the one he claims to be?

There are writings within the bible that contradict other writings within the bible...

this in not a true statement,as most of those apparent contradictions can be/ has been explained, further more those very "contradictions" does not even hamper the message the bible brings.
to make such a statement is unfortunate
please show at least one example of a contradiction that critically troubles the message the bible brings

are these really the best reasons why the bible should not be taken wholesale?
c'mon

[sMASH]

the complexity argument is weak.

the thing about things popping into existence from nothing is quite interesting. it may seem that way now, but only because it is not completely observed or understood.

[MG Man]

the complexity argument is weak.

the thing about things popping into existence from nothing is quite interesting. it may seem that way now, but only because it is not completely observed or understood.

turbohead's 'scholar' argument is equally weak

[pioneer]

Why people so afraid to go back into history and understand how civilization and society came about?

Prior to civilization man was at constant war with each other, pure chaos and disorder.

There needed to be a system to maintain order, control and dominance - religion.

The King told the people he was sent by god to rule them, so they have to submit, fear god and fear death or burn in hell. People didn't know much better back then so they did just that.

Now how this translates to present society? People still fear death, they afraid god mighten be pleased and so they would burn in hell. People fail to realise when you die, you cease to exist. I am yet to have substantial evidence that there is an afterlife, i have never seen/heard dead relatives or friends.

When you can control people's fears you can control them mentally and physically. People now are too afraid to break the shackles of mind control, cuz they feel when they die they gonna burn in some dotish fire.

All religions use fear as a tool of control, is there ANY religion that says there is no hell or heaven?

[d spike]

is there ANY religion that says there is no hell or heaven?

If you are referring to a reward/punishment in the afterlife, or an afterlife containing such, then yes. The Saducees, a Jewish sect (now extinct, however) that believed this life was ALL there was to our existence - whatever we earned by our actions, we enjoyed or suffered right here.
Technically, Buddhism also fits the bill of having no afterlife. One suffers by being reborn into this life, over and over again... Those who are deserving of reward are absorbed into the Infinite, thus losing their individuality and ceasing to exist - so technically, they don't get to enjoy anything ...

[megadoc1]

Now how this translates to present society? People still fear death, they afraid god mighten be pleased and so they would burn in hell.

the christian preaches a gospel that says that all our sins are forgiven
through the work done by Jesus Christ and that our faith in Jesus,is what pleases God not what we think we can do(not our own works) plus anyone who believes receives the gift of eternal life ....now why fear death? If one has faith in jesus God is pleased with him

People fail to realise when you die, you cease to exist. I am yet to have substantial evidence that there is an afterlife, i have never seen/heard dead relatives or friends.

but do you have substantial evidence that there is no afterlife ? I guess not because you confess that " I have never seen/heard dead relatives or friends"
so it all comes down to what you believe.....

[d spike]

Well, if you are going to swallow everything in the bible wholesale, you are going to end up in a certifiable mess,

are you saying that Christians are people living in a certifiable mess??? because the last time I checked they swallow everything in the bible wholesale...

1. You mean the "Christians" YOU know.
2. If the cap fits...

as the bible is simply a massive collection of writings, made up of many books,

wasn't this the reason its called the bible ...(the books or collection of books) whats your point?

My point (which is clear for those who can mentally follow the meaning of sentences strung together) is that many people who refer glibly to "the Bible", do so as though it is one book. I am sincerely happy for you that you are able to realize that this is not so.

written by people who differed in outlook, religious beliefs, and culture.

these are the same people whom the God of the bible claims to be His creation right?
whats the problem then? is he not God of all as they all claim? if they all came from him why can't this very statement be used as evidence that he is really the one he claims to be?

What problem? Perhaps you should be more specific about this "problem" you seem to be aware of... I certainly have no problem. As I have suggested to you more than once already, you need to be more aware of what is actually written, rather than just focusing on the bits you are comfortable with.
As far as this is concerned:

why can't this very statement be used as evidence that he is really the one he claims to be?

the issue here is NOT "that he is really the one he claims to be", but if He is what various writers of differing outlooks, religious beliefs, and cultures wrote of Him.
Perhaps you should read the poem "The Blind Men and the Elephant", written by John Godfrey Saxe in 1872. It actually is an Eastern fable - the meaning of which I trust you just might figure out:
It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.

The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
"God bless me!—but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!"

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried:"Ho!—what have we here
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me 't is mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!"

The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a snake!"

The Fourth reached out his eager hand,
And felt about the knee.
"What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain," quoth he;
"'T is clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!"

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!"

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Than, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a rope!"

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!

So, oft in theologic wars
The disputants, I ween,
Rail on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean,
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen!

There are writings within the bible that contradict other writings within the bible...

this in not a true statement,as most of those apparent contradictions can be/ has been explained, further more those very "contradictions" does not even hamper the message the bible brings.
to make such a statement is unfortunate

What is even more unfortunate is that you just wrote the codswallop quoted above. If you twist my argument, then while you can make it appear how you want, you will also deform my argument, thus losing its meaning. My argument is put to those who accept the Bible as one book, with one meaning or intent.
If something contradicts itself, then can it be found acceptable? Please bear in mind, before you air any more flatulence on this topic, that I used to teach this sort of material, and am well acquainted with both the "explainable" contradictions and those that are not. Right now I am not dealing with what I believe (so don't waste time trying to go there again) but what CAN BE FOUND ACCEPTABLE.
Faith, not logical rationalization based on scripture, is what makes said scripture acceptable. As far as "the message" is concerned, if a madman tells you that an important person is waiting to see you, wouldn't you consider the message suspect? Contradictions don't help, especially if found within the "one" book with "one" message.

please show at least one example of a contradiction...

Wait one minute... wasn't this dealt with before in this thread by Razkal and others? You want to go over this again? Is this why this thread is so blasted long? Because twats who refuse to read keep making the same points over and over? Nothing else to say, eh?
Tell you what... save us from wasting time, and in future, just quote the page/date and tuner whose argument you wish to regurgitate.

are these really the best reasons why the bible should not be taken wholesale?
c'mon

Actually, they are not. There are quite a few - and some of them have been dealt with already in this thread, as well as other threads that you have posted in. Perhaps you should read what others write for a change.

Cheers

[bluefete]

ok so if alluh ent believe in ah god what about supernatural stuff like obeah, spirits , jins etc?

what does one have to do with the other?
you are just listing phenomena that we do not currently have explanations for
sinple as that
there was a time when moving objects in the sky were supernatural...so were thunder and lightning......

MGMan & Duane, hear dis nuh: If I gave you a statue and you asked me where it came from and I said no one made it, would you call me crazy?????