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You equating people living in America to those living in an active warzone, an urban combat zone nonetheless ?Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:Dizzy28 wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:Dizzy28 wrote:Screenshot_20250601-164635.jpg
And this shows a man in islamic garb shooting Rami Al-Kakhn, only that it turned out to be IDF in the muslim garb
You believe the IDF does not lie also.
The fine details don't discount the genocide and controlled famine.
Two persons were killed last week in DC by a deranged gunman and today Pro Palis firebombed a march for the Hostages in Colorado. These l"fine details" will kill more and more people as the unhinged seem to cling to the Palestinian Movement.
50,000 Palestinian lives are worth less than others?
You didn't mention these fine details from last week
Mohammed Sinwar was hiding in a hospital. Paliganda in the aftermath of the strikes was the usual hospital,civilians, was only good boys etc etc. Sinwar being there made it a legititamte target. Basically this has been the Paliganda playbook all war long. Hide that hospitals, mosques and schools are Hamas use facilities.sMASH wrote:https://youtu.be/8Vv_H2WasjU?si=UT2byx6OvmwwA7iG
https://youtu.be/8Vv_H2WasjU?si=UT2byx6OvmwwA7iG
It was once taboo to say Isreal bombed a hospital/church/school but now it goes without saying, like peanut butter and bread .
Its now normal to say Isreal is genociding the Palestinians.
Just some time again till we treat Israel like the Homicidal fascist nazis they are.
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:Dizzy28 wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:Dizzy28 wrote:Screenshot_20250601-164635.jpg
And this shows a man in islamic garb shooting Rami Al-Kakhn, only that it turned out to be IDF in the muslim garb
You believe the IDF does not lie also.
The fine details don't discount the genocide and controlled famine.
Two persons were killed last week in DC by a deranged gunman and today Pro Palis firebombed a march for the Hostages in Colorado. These l"fine details" will kill more and more people as the unhinged seem to cling to the Palestinian Movement.
50,000 Palestinian lives are worth less than others?
You didn't mention these fine details from last week
Dizzy28 wrote:You ignored the map I posted showing land ownership. A vast majority of land in Mandatory Palestine belonged to neither Jews nor Arabs. The partition was done with those lands forming the core of the two new states.
Dizzy28 wrote:Are all 50,000 civilians? Are there no combatants in that number?
Maybe the reason I didn't mention those fine details you quote is because unlike you I don't take an all or nothing approach to this conflict. Do I believe Israel is fighting a just war...yes.
Do I believe they are following all the rules of engagement ..no.
Should civilian deaths be minimized....yes.
What is the appropriate number of civilian casualties that should be allowed? I don't know and neither do you or anybody else here. You cannot say zero because thats not reality.
But Gaza is not the worse war for civilian to combatant casualties. Heck it's not even the worst war in the world at the moment much less historically.
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:Dizzy28 wrote:You ignored the map I posted showing land ownership. A vast majority of land in Mandatory Palestine belonged to neither Jews nor Arabs. The partition was done with those lands forming the core of the two new states.
I guess the Americas did not belong to the native indians before they were colonized?
I agree though that 1500 years later, an Arawak or Carib can't come to your home today and say it's theirs.Dizzy28 wrote:Are all 50,000 civilians? Are there no combatants in that number?
Maybe the reason I didn't mention those fine details you quote is because unlike you I don't take an all or nothing approach to this conflict. Do I believe Israel is fighting a just war...yes.
Do I believe they are following all the rules of engagement ..no.
Should civilian deaths be minimized....yes.
What is the appropriate number of civilian casualties that should be allowed? I don't know and neither do you or anybody else here. You cannot say zero because thats not reality.
But Gaza is not the worse war for civilian to combatant casualties. Heck it's not even the worst war in the world at the moment much less historically.
50,000 Palestinian deaths as a comparison to the estimated 1,139 people that were killed in Israel during the Hamas-led attacks of October 7 and more than 200 taken captive (vs the estimated 9,700 Palestinians being held in Israeli prisons under a different court system than Jews). And this did not start on Oct 7th.
Do I believe Hamas should release all the hostages? Absolutely yes.
Do I think at this point Israel will stop trying to take over Gaza at this point? No.
When you oppress, carry out apartheid, blockade, occupy and annex people, they will retaliate.
What makes it a just war in your opinion?
The Casus Belli which is Oct 7th makes Operation Iron Swords just.
An invasion by a neighbouring force killing over a thousand of my people and taking hostage a few hundred more is just cause for any war that comes after.
If they are not following the rules of engagement then how are their actions morally justified?
The war is justified. A war is the sum of many battles. Israel is not following the rules of war for every battle. Not every battle is fought justly, not just here.
"Genocide, as defined in international law, refers to acts committed with the intent to destroy a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group in whole or in part." - the intent is there as stated by Ben Givir and Bezalel Smotrich of the Israeli Gov't.
Ben Gvir and Smotrich are fringe politicians that do not represent mainstream Israeli society. The Israeli political system means the large parties that represent the most people have to accommodate the smaller ones than represent the extremes. Their parties have 7 and 6 seats on the Knesset respectively of 120 seats. Do we liken Hamas's call for Jewish Genocide to represent all of Gaza? Hamas is after all the elected party of the enclave. Although surveys of Gazans after Oct 7th showed widespread support for that action
In his memoirs released today, Mr Clinton recounted how the Palestinian appeared confused and ill-informed at times in their crucial Camp David talks in July of 2000 that ended when "again, Mr Arafat said no." Mr Clinton, alternating between optimism and exasperation in his narrative, described how he was part negotiator and part fireman in his effort to end chronic Israeli-Palestinian mistrust and hammer out a peace plan.
Mr Clinton said Ariel Sharon, who was Israeli Foreign Minister when the two first met, was not without sympathy for the Palestinian cause even if he balked at any territorial concessions.
But Mr Arafat was unmovable throughout.
"I shut down the talks, it was frustrating and profoundly sad," the former US president wrote, adding that at the time "there was little difference between the two sides."
"It was hard to know why he had moved so little."
"I still didn't believe Arafat would make such a colossal mistake."
"It was historic," Mr Clinton said, speaking of the negotiations with the Israeli Labor Party government of Ehud Barak.
"An Israeli government had said that to get peace, there would be a Palestinian state in roughly 97 per cent of the West Bank...and all of Gaza, where Israel also had settlements, the ball was in Arafat's court."
"I warned Arafat that he was single-handedly electing Sharon and that he would reap the whirlwind."
What led to 1947 ?Dizzy28 wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:Dizzy28 wrote:You ignored the map I posted showing land ownership. A vast majority of land in Mandatory Palestine belonged to neither Jews nor Arabs. The partition was done with those lands forming the core of the two new states.
I guess the Americas did not belong to the native indians before they were colonized?
I agree though that 1500 years later, an Arawak or Carib can't come to your home today and say it's theirs.Dizzy28 wrote:Are all 50,000 civilians? Are there no combatants in that number?
Maybe the reason I didn't mention those fine details you quote is because unlike you I don't take an all or nothing approach to this conflict. Do I believe Israel is fighting a just war...yes.
Do I believe they are following all the rules of engagement ..no.
Should civilian deaths be minimized....yes.
What is the appropriate number of civilian casualties that should be allowed? I don't know and neither do you or anybody else here. You cannot say zero because thats not reality.
But Gaza is not the worse war for civilian to combatant casualties. Heck it's not even the worst war in the world at the moment much less historically.
50,000 Palestinian deaths as a comparison to the estimated 1,139 people that were killed in Israel during the Hamas-led attacks of October 7 and more than 200 taken captive (vs the estimated 9,700 Palestinians being held in Israeli prisons under a different court system than Jews). And this did not start on Oct 7th.
Do I believe Hamas should release all the hostages? Absolutely yes.
Do I think at this point Israel will stop trying to take over Gaza at this point? No.
When you oppress, carry out apartheid, blockade, occupy and annex people, they will retaliate.
What makes it a just war in your opinion?
The Casus Belli which is Oct 7th makes Operation Iron Swords just.
An invasion by a neighbouring force killing over a thousand of my people and taking hostage a few hundred more is just cause for any war that comes after.
If they are not following the rules of engagement then how are their actions morally justified?
The war is justified. A war is the sum of many battles. Israel is not following the rules of war for every battle. Not every battle is fought justly, not just here.
"Genocide, as defined in international law, refers to acts committed with the intent to destroy a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group in whole or in part." - the intent is there as stated by Ben Givir and Bezalel Smotrich of the Israeli Gov't.
Ben Gvir and Smotrich are fringe politicians that do not represent mainstream Israeli society. The Israeli political system means the large parties that represent the most people have to accommodate the smaller ones than represent the extremes. Their parties have 7 and 6 seats on the Knesset respectively of 120 seats. Do we liken Hamas's call for Jewish Genocide to represent all of Gaza? Hamas is after all the elected party of the enclave. Although surveys of Gazans after Oct 7th showed widespread support for that action
I would address your points above and below.
WRT to your bolded point -
There you go again with the all or nothing and also with the it didn't start with Oct 7th....its always Israel's fault and never Palestinians.
Didn't start on Oct 7th
You are right but for all the wrong reasons here -
Five times the Arabs have rejected Palestinian statehood
1. Peel Commission (1938) was giving the Arabs 80% of the entire Mandate. They were like nah dawg!!!!
The Jews accepted btw.
https://www.britannica.com/event/Peel-Commission
2. 1947 UN Partition - properly ventilated in here so much times
3. 1967 - At the end of the 6 Day War the Arab countries rejected UNSC 242 because it meant solidifying Israeli borders at the pre 1967 status
4. 2000 Camp David - Ehud Barak offered all of Gaza and 94% of Judea and Samaria (West Bank) and East Jerusalem as the capital. Arafat responded with the 2nd Intifida. We had a back and forth on this a year ago in here.
5. 2008 - Olmert offered Abbas a Two State solution where a Palestinian state gets 95% of the West Bank and all of Gaza but Israel compensates for the that 5% by exchanging for territory along the Gaza Strip and West Bank borders.
Abbas was like nah dawg!!!
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4g0dv7rxxvo
We also had a back and forth on the conditions in Gaza as a result of the Gaza Blockade which is also carried out by Egypt as well, something Israeli haters never mention. But you conveniently ignored when I showed the chart illustrating how in years immediately following the withdrawal from Gaza Israel was rewarded with intense rocket bombardments. For the last time I will post that chart here here and would also cease discussing this issue further with you since you are motivated by passion and not by rationalism. My only contribution thereafter would be to debunk the paliganda when you post them.
Israel is dealing with an irrational death cult who would rather not have a country and live like animals than have a country if it also meant he Jews also get to have a country. Israeli security measures seem draconian/apartheidish to you but you do not live Israeli reality.
From 1830 to 1948, these repeated massacres aimed to expel the Jews from Palestine, dissuade European refugees from seeking sanctuary there, and thwart the establishment of a ” Homeland for the Jewish people” through extreme violence.
Georges Bensoussan’s research underscores that murderous anti-Semitism plagued the Jews of Palestine long before the formation of a Jewish state.
alfa wrote:And now the same Jews are killing Palestinians or forcing them to live as second class citizens
Real jews who know their their religion know they were scattered through out the earth , cause after the temple was built twice and demolished twice, their covanent was broken.Dizzy28 wrote:alfa wrote:And now the same Jews are killing Palestinians or forcing them to live as second class citizens
Imagine if the Arabs had an offer of a country, something the Jews never got till 1947.
You actually don't need to imagine because a few posts up I listed the 5 times they rejected statehood including as recently as 2008.
Shooting yourself repeatedly is insanity.
Dizzy28 wrote:^From 1830 to 1948, these repeated massacres aimed to expel the Jews from Palestine, dissuade European refugees from seeking sanctuary there, and thwart the establishment of a ” Homeland for the Jewish people” through extreme violence.
Georges Bensoussan’s research underscores that murderous anti-Semitism plagued the Jews of Palestine long before the formation of a Jewish state.
Pogroms In Palestine before the Creation of the State of Israel
https://www.fondapol.org/app/uploads/20 ... 29-w-4.pdf
Arab bloodlust caused 1947. Giving the Jews an independent homeland was the only way to ensure they were not killed, converted or forced to live as 2nd class citizens.
By this and this , ur saying jews were never safe in Palestine. So Palestine being the onky safe space for jews was false advertisement by the zionists .Dizzy28 wrote:It DiDnT sTaRt On OcT 7Th!!!
sMASH wrote:Dizzy28 wrote:^From 1830 to 1948, these repeated massacres aimed to expel the Jews from Palestine, dissuade European refugees from seeking sanctuary there, and thwart the establishment of a ” Homeland for the Jewish people” through extreme violence.
Georges Bensoussan’s research underscores that murderous anti-Semitism plagued the Jews of Palestine long before the formation of a Jewish state.
Pogroms In Palestine before the Creation of the State of Israel
https://www.fondapol.org/app/uploads/20 ... 29-w-4.pdf
Arab bloodlust caused 1947. Giving the Jews an independent homeland was the only way to ensure they were not killed, converted or forced to live as 2nd class citizens.By this and this , ur saying jews were never safe in Palestine. So Palestine being the onky safe space for jews was false advertisement by the zionists .Dizzy28 wrote:It DiDnT sTaRt On OcT 7Th!!!
Capture.JPG
Or, that garbage u reproduced is disinformation , with little to back it up.
More history records and accounting point to the opposite.
Here is the zionist project pre nationalist expansion via terrorism.
Doesn't show jews at all being negatively affected . It shows them thriving.
Even castigates the natives as backward by holding onto archaic methods.
It even shows every one praying in harmony in Jerusalem.
This is just one video ... One account typical of many . Even Einstein said the harm to jews would come from the Jewish terrorists , not the arabs.
https://youtu.be/P7P1deMQ1Zw?si=FSB3O8DiSQyaks5j
https://youtu.be/P7P1deMQ1Zw?si=FSB3O8DiSQyaks5j
Dizzy28 wrote:alfa wrote:And now the same Jews are killing Palestinians or forcing them to live as second class citizens
Imagine if the Arabs had an offer of a country, something the Jews never got till 1947.
You actually don't need to imagine because a few posts up I listed the 5 times they rejected statehood including as recently as 2008.
Shooting yourself repeatedly is insanity.
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:Dizzy28 wrote:alfa wrote:And now the same Jews are killing Palestinians or forcing them to live as second class citizens
Imagine if the Arabs had an offer of a country, something the Jews never got till 1947.
You actually don't need to imagine because a few posts up I listed the 5 times they rejected statehood including as recently as 2008.
Shooting yourself repeatedly is insanity.
The statehood agreements were rejected because of the terms.
You just posted in the Ukraine thread the crazy terms Russia has demanded for Ukraine - do you think Ukraine should accept those?
Shlomo Ben Ami, Israeli Minister of Foreign Affairs at the time and he was one of the main negotiators at Camp David later admitted that: “Camp David was not the missed opportunity for the Palestinians and if I were a Palestinian I would have rejected Camp David, as well.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit
None of this though justifies the continued occupation and settlements in the West Bank, the treatment of Palestinians for decades nor the annihilation of the Gaza strip.
Lies are lies because reality does not correspond to them.... Not because who it cones from.Dizzy28 wrote:sMASH wrote:Dizzy28 wrote:^From 1830 to 1948, these repeated massacres aimed to expel the Jews from Palestine, dissuade European refugees from seeking sanctuary there, and thwart the establishment of a ” Homeland for the Jewish people” through extreme violence.
Georges Bensoussan’s research underscores that murderous anti-Semitism plagued the Jews of Palestine long before the formation of a Jewish state.
Pogroms In Palestine before the Creation of the State of Israel
https://www.fondapol.org/app/uploads/20 ... 29-w-4.pdf
Arab bloodlust caused 1947. Giving the Jews an independent homeland was the only way to ensure they were not killed, converted or forced to live as 2nd class citizens.By this and this , ur saying jews were never safe in Palestine. So Palestine being the onky safe space for jews was false advertisement by the zionists .Dizzy28 wrote:It DiDnT sTaRt On OcT 7Th!!!
Capture.JPG
Or, that garbage u reproduced is disinformation , with little to back it up.
More history records and accounting point to the opposite.
Here is the zionist project pre nationalist expansion via terrorism.
Doesn't show jews at all being negatively affected . It shows them thriving.
Even castigates the natives as backward by holding onto archaic methods.
It even shows every one praying in harmony in Jerusalem.
This is just one video ... One account typical of many . Even Einstein said the harm to jews would come from the Jewish terrorists , not the arabs.
https://youtu.be/P7P1deMQ1Zw?si=FSB3O8DiSQyaks5j
https://youtu.be/P7P1deMQ1Zw?si=FSB3O8DiSQyaks5j
The man who only posts from propaganda sites and paid shills like Grayzone etc wants to talk about disinformation
You were literally cumming all over yourself a month ago saying the Jews killed Kennedy.
The most low value content on this entire thread comes from you.
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