The Religion Discussion

[sMASH]

the dinosaurs died, and some bones remained and some were fossilized.

[d spike]

So my question is, if most religions claim god created the earth then man, what happen to dinosaurs?

Where do they fit in?...i don't remember reading bout dinosaurs in the bible/geeta/koran

Could someone shed light?...seeing there is imperical evidence that dinosaurs existed

Did they exist on an "earth" which god didn't create?

I agree with Pios on this one. I would love to hear a scriptural-based answer...

And I will "take in front" here and point out to any Christian fundamentalist (as these especially hate to do research) that the references in the Old Testament to the Leviathan and the other behemoth (Job and the Psalms have some examples) are whales and a hippopotamus - not dinosaurs.

[brainchild]

So my question is, if most religions claim god created the earth then man, what happen to dinosaurs?

Where do they fit in?...i don't remember reading bout dinosaurs in the bible/geeta/koran

Could someone shed light?...seeing there is imperical evidence that dinosaurs existed

Did they exist on an "earth" which god didn't create?

Dinosaurs and neanderthals....not to mention who were the people that Cain wanted protection against? Were the inhabitants of Nod there before Adam?...cos they had time to build a city

U'll never get a straight answer, cos they don't know...none of us do!

[sMASH]

no, no group makes a big deal bout it, just me. many people don't know that there were two forbidden trees and not one. the big deal was with the bible itself by assigning these wondrous roles of tree of life and tree of knowledge of good and evil, i meant the bible was making a big deal about the trees. i really only hear about original sin and that i need saving. (any time they come round me and i eh have time, is luke 16 in deh tail)


but to have such daunting aspects as life and knowledge of good and evil, and god telling them to eat from which ever tree in a giant garden except two specific trees with these fantastic qualities.... i find it hard to believe that they would be insignificant. the fact that they paid no mind to the trees means it did not interest them, thus making them insignificant.

[sMASH]

when i say they paid no mind to the trees i meant adam and eve paid no mind to the trees... really need to use more nouns.

[sMASH]

the only thing islam has vaguely allowing dinosaurs is that beasts were created and scattered through out the lands. no direct reference, plus, if no body had dug up a dinosaur bone and studied it, we would not be having this conversation.

[DFC]

pioneer, dinosaurs never existed.

its all a hoax created by the US gov't, just like the holocaust.

[megadoc1]

Did man live side by side with dinosaurs?

I asked a bible toter this today n was told to "just accept god"

lol.......well pioneer technically the word dinosaur "terrible lizard" was coined somewhere around the 1800s that's years after the bible was compiled ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinosaur
The term "dinosaur" was coined in 1842 by the English paleontologist Richard Owen, and derives from Greek δεινός (deinos) "terrible, powerful, wondrous, potent" + σαῦρος (sauros) "lizard".

some people make a big fuss about bible where dinosaurs are concerned
but it does not mention a lot of animals that we have here today

the bible states that God created everything (beast/whatever) that crept on the earth around the same time he made man ...

"Gen 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

I am not sure if they lived side by side but that's what I work with for now ...

[megadoc1]

many people don't know that there were two forbidden trees and not one.

but to have such daunting aspects as life and knowledge of good and evil, and god telling them to eat from which ever tree in a giant garden except two specific trees

there was only one forbidden tree, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

after Adam took of this tree they were driven out of the garden
making the tree of life out of their reach........ not forbidden!

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

when yuh get chance read the bible nah

[meccalli]

Errm Not all dinosaurs were huge you know..alot of em have adapted and still live on today. I'd guess the average dino was more or less around an adult american alligator's size. However, If you were to read job, you'd see God shows job.. behemoth and leviathan, and by its description, it's clearly some creature of extraordinary stature that was capable of humbling job.

[meccalli]

Did man live side by side with dinosaurs?

I asked a bible toter this today n was told to "just accept god"

lol.......well pioneer technically the word dinosaur "terrible lizard" was coined somewhere around the 1800s that's years after the bible was compiled ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinosaur
The term "dinosaur" was coined in 1842 by the English paleontologist Richard Owen, and derives from Greek δεινός (deinos) "terrible, powerful, wondrous, potent" + σαῦρος (sauros) "lizard".

some people make a big fuss about bible where dinosaurs are concerned
but it does not mention a lot of animals that we have here today

the bible states that God created everything (beast/whatever) that crept on the earth around the same time he made man ...

"Gen 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

I am not sure if they lived side by side but that's what I work with for now ...

Wha kinda hypocrite ting this is lol...if he created all creatures with man to rule ..obviously they walked side by side. I think there was a fossil track of human and dino prints meshing along a pathway.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

..obviously they walked side by side. I think there was a fossil track of human and dino prints meshing along a pathway.

no there isn't, not a proven one anyway

[sMASH]

many people don't know that there were two forbidden trees and not one.

but to have such daunting aspects as life and knowledge of good and evil, and god telling them to eat from which ever tree in a giant garden except two specific trees

there was only one forbidden tree, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

after Adam took of this tree they were driven out of the garden
making the tree of life out of their reach........ not forbidden!

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

when yuh get chance read the bible nah

9 The LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

as humiliating as it is, in one day, two giant things got cleared up for me, at least somewhat.

[mediahouse]

Imagine we can find remnants of dinosaurs but not one piece of noah's great ark

We know what dinosaurs might have looked like, yet noone can show us what god looks like. If something cannot defined by physical elements in space and time, how can it exist?

well in case u didnt know which apparent it shows Noah ark was found in Mt ararat a while now check it on utube.

As for the dinosaurs , yes they did exist maybe the reason those books didnt mention them was where the dinosaurs was man wasnt there at that time or if some cave men was they died off.

Its not like the religious books will have every single animal listed a-z come on now...

[mediahouse]

Pioneer i take it you dont believe in a god whatsoever?

so my question to you is can a simple thing like a watch come in existence just like that made of matter?

Or was the watch created by man?


So if you say it was created by man then why this complex world cant be created by a supreme being?

[d spike]

However, If you were to read job, you'd see God shows job.. behemoth and leviathan, and by its description, it's clearly some creature of extraordinary stature that was capable of humbling job.

Ermmm... those weren't dinosaurs...

...the references in the Old Testament to the Leviathan and the other behemoth (Job and the Psalms have some examples) are whales and a hippopotamus - not dinosaurs.

As for the dinosaurs , yes they did exist maybe the reason those books didnt mention them was where the dinosaurs was man wasnt there at that time...

mediahouse, while that is the correct answer, it isn't considered acceptable by the book-thumpers... even though (as you point out) their thinking isn't logical:

Its not like the religious books will have every single animal listed a-z come on now...

The problem lies in people having confused spiritual truth with scientific facts. While all is part of reality, they are separate. Folks erroneously used the bible as a scientific text for centuries and this caused all sorts of confusion - just ask Galileo, or look at the first quote above.
The Bible is scripture, religious literature... not a biological or geological thesis.

[Kasey]

Pioneer i take it you dont believe in a god whatsoever?

so my question to you is can a simple thing like a watch come in existence just like that made of matter?

Or was the watch created by man?


So if you say it was created by man then why this complex world cant be created by a supreme being?

Because a watches maker can be traced and PROVEN. How can you prove a "supreme being" to a non-believer? Any religion can say they can prove, but then the 'proof' would be aligned with that particular religion.

Besides if I were to use ur analogy, then who created the baigan tree in mih gyarden? Anyone? No, it sprung up via a chain of events and then grew........

[MG Man]

Pioneer i take it you dont believe in a god whatsoever?

so my question to you is can a simple thing like a watch come in existence just like that made of matter?

Or was the watch created by man?


So if you say it was created by man then why this complex world cant be created by a supreme being?

what a ridiculois argument
u are using the 'complexity' argument, whereby if something exists, surely it can be traced back to a more complex entity, which would have created it...complex watch, created by even more complex machine, ie man.........so we trace this backwards to the uper-complex universe, and well by your logic, surely something more complex must have cerated it...ie gawd......then one must ask, how did this ultra complex gawd entity come into being......think carefully before you answer.....

and sMASH, u still haven't addressed my question, ie regardless of how well you treat your slaves, they are still someone's property, and therefore do not exist under the premise of free will......surely your religion does not crush such a precious idea as free will.....

[brainchild]

I still wanna know how come we have to believe in the unseen and they were seeing angels and displays of power by God quite regularly according to the Bible?

[meccalli]

Well, while many people believe em to be hippos, elephants or whales...imo hippo or elephants don't have tails like cedar trees and there's no evidence to disprove a liopleurodon or even a megalodon being described.

[mediahouse]

Pioneer i take it you dont believe in a god whatsoever?

so my question to you is can a simple thing like a watch come in existence just like that made of matter?

Or was the watch created by man?


So if you say it was created by man then why this complex world cant be created by a supreme being?

what a ridiculois argument
u are using the 'complexity' argument, whereby if something exists, surely it can be traced back to a more complex entity, which would have created it...complex watch, created by even more complex machine, ie man.........so we trace this backwards to the uper-complex universe, and well by your logic, surely something more complex must have cerated it...ie gawd......then one must ask, how did this ultra complex gawd entity come into being......think carefully before you answer.....

and sMASH, u still haven't addressed my question, ie regardless of how well you treat your slaves, they are still someone's property, and therefore do not exist under the premise of free will......surely your religion does not crush such a precious idea as free will.....

Well i surely know you dont believe in a god.
so what you sayin its just co incidence or matter and atoms make the whole solar system and the sun and moon just happen to know to orbit earth?

what about the video evidence posted in this thread earlier of the hindu gods drinking milk, or the signs of the muslim god name appearing all over nature and even the baby with Arabic writings on his skin with a message ? Even the christians had some miracle as well Are all these just common nature pranks to fool us to believe in something?
clearly there is a greater beings other than humans.

what say u now//??

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

The problem lies in people having confused spiritual truth with scientific facts. While all is part of reality, they are separate. Folks erroneously used the bible as a scientific text for centuries and this caused all sorts of confusion - just ask Galileo, or look at the first quote above.
The Bible is scripture, religious literature... not a biological or geological thesis.

there is no proven scientific evidence showing where man and dinosaurs lived on earth at the same time.

There are volumes of data, records and fossils, all empirical evidence showing that dinosaurs lived millions of years BEFORE evidence of the first humans - this is no longer a question.

How can someone deny scientific methods in showing evidence of this but still go and take antibiotics that used the same scientific research to develop - that is hypocrisy!

[MG Man]

Pioneer i take it you dont believe in a god whatsoever?

so my question to you is can a simple thing like a watch come in existence just like that made of matter?

Or was the watch created by man?


So if you say it was created by man then why this complex world cant be created by a supreme being?

what a ridiculois argument
u are using the 'complexity' argument, whereby if something exists, surely it can be traced back to a more complex entity, which would have created it...complex watch, created by even more complex machine, ie man.........so we trace this backwards to the uper-complex universe, and well by your logic, surely something more complex must have cerated it...ie gawd......then one must ask, how did this ultra complex gawd entity come into being......think carefully before you answer.....

and sMASH, u still haven't addressed my question, ie regardless of how well you treat your slaves, they are still someone's property, and therefore do not exist under the premise of free will......surely your religion does not crush such a precious idea as free will.....

Well i surely know you dont believe in a god.
so what you sayin its just co incidence or matter and atoms make the whole solar system and the sun and moon just happen to know to orbit earth?

what about the video evidence posted in this thread earlier of the hindu gods drinking milk, or the signs of the muslim god name appearing all over nature and even the baby with Arabic writings on his skin with a message ? Even the christians had some miracle as well Are all these just common nature pranks to fool us to believe in something?
clearly there is a greater beings other than humans.

what say u now//??

lol at your 'evidence'
the hindu god thing is clearly a case of mass hysteria / gullible stupidity...any porus ceramic statue will absorb liquid......you should look for the vid with the skeptic showing the devotee a ceramic statue of mickey mose drinking milk too....and not to mention the gallons of milk on the floor.........the islamic script on the child? Review it again son....the video shows the child.....with no marks....the video shows photographs of the child with 'markings'
worse yet, you showing 'evidence' of three conflicting religions.....which one's right????
or is your god one sick fcuk who just like ketching kicks by conjuring up contradictions to wach he ensuing chaos????

and yes it has been proven scientifically that the universe did pop into existence from nothing without need for a 'god'

which brings me back to my question, ie, based on your logic, WHO / WHAT created gawd??????

[mediahouse]

and the baby with the Arabic writings was show in the video on his skin and not just pics fadda review it again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVx2uqtCiG0


so let me ask you this a person who commits crime and kill and rape innocent people and steal when he dies thats it for him? he dont have to pay for his sins? he wont have to meet his maker one day?

If so better i start robbing and stealing and raping people since i have no sins to pay for so better i live a life of crime and wrong doings?

for someone liek you who dont believe in a god these things must be in your to do list since you dont have to pay for it right? robbing, killing, raping, advantaging people etc all this should be good acts according to you right? since there is no god to Judge us correct?

If so why you dont do that

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ not any more lost than he thinks you are.

be open minded if you want to discuss things.

[MG Man]

and the baby with the Arabic writings was show in the video on his skin and not just pics fadda review it again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVx2uqtCiG0


so let me ask you this a person who commits crime and kill and rape innocent people and steal when he dies thats it for him? he dont have to pay for his sins? he wont have to meet his maker one day?

If so better i start robbing and stealing and raping people since i have no sins to pay for so better i live a life of crime and wrong doings?

for someone liek you who dont believe in a god these things must be in your to do list since you dont have to pay for it right? robbing, killing, raping, advantaging people etc all this should be good acts according to you right? since there is no god to Judge us correct?

If so why you dont do that

more innocent people have been murdered, tortured, raped and victimized at the hands of your god's religion than all the atheists, psychos, sadists, and lunatics in all of history put together.............but keep fooling yourself dan

[d spike]

Well, while many people believe em to be hippos, elephants or whales...imo hippo or elephants don't have tails like cedar trees and there's no evidence to disprove a liopleurodon or even a megalodon being described.

You cannot be serious.

Well, while many people believe em to be hippos, elephants or whales

Perhaps they have reason to... If you would study Job, you will realise that the author of this Talmudic fable had a far greater knowledge of Semitic folklore than he did of biology. If someone described a hippo to you and neither of you had ever seen one, how would that conversation go?

imo hippo or elephants don't have tails like cedar trees

Quite right... however, the quotation was not referring to the SIZE or LENGTH of the tail.

His tail stands up like a cedar

Another translation states that his tail "moves like a cedar", and yet another: "His tail hardens like a cedar."
Some scholars have identified it as the elephant's trunk...

"His tail hardens like a cedar" points at another body part - Behemoth's penis, most likely.
"Moves like a cedar" - based on another meaning of the Hebrew word "move", which means "extend", and on the second part of that verse ("the sinews of his thighs are knit together") describing the sinew around its "stones"—not, as in the translation above, his thighs. The Vulgate did correct this errant translation, and used the word "testiculorum".

and there's no evidence to disprove a liopleurodon or even a megalodon being described.

Well, then, if that is your "take" on this writing, then Job is also proof that some dinosaur breathed fire and smoke, huh? The following quotation is also from Job and it is part of the description of the Leviathan. Are you suggesting that Job is proof that dragons existed?

Light flashes when he sneezes... Flames blaze from his mouth, and streams of sparks fly out. Smoke comes pouring out of his nose...

[brainchild]

and the baby with the Arabic writings was show in the video on his skin and not just pics fadda review it again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVx2uqtCiG0


so let me ask you this a person who commits crime and kill and rape innocent people and steal when he dies thats it for him? he dont have to pay for his sins? he wont have to meet his maker one day?

If so better i start robbing and stealing and raping people since i have no sins to pay for so better i live a life of crime and wrong doings?

for someone liek you who dont believe in a god these things must be in your to do list since you dont have to pay for it right? robbing, killing, raping, advantaging people etc all this should be good acts according to you right? since there is no god to Judge us correct?

If so why you dont do that

That is what gets me with religion...so d only reason u not robbing, killing and raping is bcos u think u'll have 2 pay 4 it when u die?
That makes u a psychopath my friend, bcos u have sick desires building inside u and all u waiting 2 hear is dat it have nothing after death and all hell break loose...no pun intended.
Mankind knows what is wrong in his heart...from childhood, sometimes b4 u even tell a toddler wat they're doin is wrong they hide instinctively. On the other side of it animals are born knowing they must kill or run a few hours after birth to survive. All part of the grand design, one that doesn't require a church, a story, rules or even accounts of close encounters to prove its' existence. It always has been and all ways will be...even when dat grand design brings about our extinction.
The real problem is dat man is afraid of death, so they attempt to cheat it and when they can't, they create elaborate backstories to ease their minds and give purpose to their existence.

Some ppl don't require such tings to be good ppl and lead successful lives. At d end of d day it really doesn't matter wat u follow as long as it makes u a good person. The hard part out here is what is good is pretty relative these days.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

and the baby with the Arabic writings was show in the video on his skin and not just pics fadda review it again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVx2uqtCiG0


so let me ask you this a person who commits crime and kill and rape innocent people and steal when he dies thats it for him? he dont have to pay for his sins? he wont have to meet his maker one day?

If so better i start robbing and stealing and raping people since i have no sins to pay for so better i live a life of crime and wrong doings?

for someone liek you who dont believe in a god these things must be in your to do list since you dont have to pay for it right? robbing, killing, raping, advantaging people etc all this should be good acts according to you right? since there is no god to Judge us correct?

If so why you dont do that

That is what gets me with religion...so d only reason u not robbing, killing and raping is bcos u think u'll have 2 pay 4 it when u die?
That makes u a psychopath my friend, bcos u have sick desires building inside u and all u waiting 2 hear is dat it have nothing after death and all hell break loose...no pun intended.
Mankind knows what is wrong in his heart...from childhood, sometimes b4 u even tell a toddler wat they're doin is wrong they hide instinctively. On the other side of it animals are born knowing they must kill or run a few hours after birth to survive. All part of the grand design, one that doesn't require a church, a story, rules or even accounts of close encounters to prove its' existence. It always has been and all ways will be...even when dat grand design brings about our extinction.
The real problem is dat man is afraid of death, so they attempt to cheat it and when they can't, they create elaborate backstories to ease their minds and give purpose to their existence.

Some ppl don't require such tings to be good ppl and lead successful lives. At d end of d day it really doesn't matter wat u follow as long as it makes u a good person. The hard part out here is what is good is pretty relative these days.

i agree!!!

mediahouse your statements are worrying!

[meccalli]

There was an article on natgeo about another ark find..they've been mistaken before so I don't know how sure the researcher's are if their find.

And all of those descriptions about the specimens found in job still can describe some sort of sauropod type dino or even an earlier species of elephant if we're being picky. I simply think there was something greater being described than what we know today. Even marco polo ranted on dragons didn't he?
They were probably dino's of some sort being that the word is relative new about great lizards. I think there's plenty of evidence around the world to show that man lived with dinos from paintings, models and even that intact blood tissue found in the t-rex.

Never saw that awesome description but i do believe in dragons not that the passage is describing one. Organisms have developed such complex mechanisms..I say why not..?