2012/13 Budget - 44% increase in Premium gasoline

[nervewrecker]

I not buying no damn electric vehicle. I not buying no damn cng conversion kit. I not buying no damn cng vehicle either.

Hahahahahahaahaaaaaa I laugh with tears in mih eye.

Seriously though and politics aside I have some questions and the convo here could produce answers from the collective.

Raising diesel is political suicide. These are politicians. Lewwe dun that there. If the premise is that they raised premium to cut into the gas subsidy I can't understand how if they are asking people to switch to super. Premium was subsidized less than super by ALOT!!!



So on average, premium was $0.73/liter to subsidize, super is $1.83
/quote]

Where'd you get that graph? It suggests that we're paying waaaaaay over the average price for premium.

Found it while googling..
http://sta.uwi.edu/conferences/12/revenue/documents/TDriverforwebsiteposting.pdf

Good info! Thanks.


At face value it suggests just like many are speculating:

The upper echelons of society benefit the most from the subsidy.(pg 10-11)
Premium gas buyers seem to now be "subsidising" other gasoline buyers. (pg 3)
South motorists are responsible for a large portion of the subsidy, probably from having to travel long distances to get to work. (pg 12)
There was an increase in diesel usage over gasoline close to elections (pg 5). Probably from all those motorcades and political party mobilisation.

BTW, anyone understand what the columns suggest on pg 10? I don't understand the need to include Latin America and Africa columns.

South people will like to stay south, not our fault they cant decentralize.

We would travel if they get their transport system in order and make the place safer.

but say what, they dont wanna hear that, buss we pocket, force we to take robb and suffer to get to and from work.

best we turn to crime.

[Conrad]

South people will like to stay south, not our fault they cant decentralize.

We would travel if they get their transport system in order and make the place safer.

but say what, they dont wanna hear that, buss we pocket, force we to take robb and suffer to get to and from work.

best we turn to crime.

So you're saying the government could take a more long-term approach and encourage decentralisation instead of forcing motorists to have to visit a CNG station to go AND come from work.

I could see it now, 20 CNG pumps lined off by the side of the highway to aid motorists who miscalculated their consumption.

[nervewrecker]

I cant access the article here from work but they made it sound like south people intentionally consume unnessary amounts of fuel and take advantage of the subsidy.

Is it our fault they have a piss poor public service transport system?

Is it our fault roads not wide enough and they allow development to take place to an extent where roads cannot be widened in some places due to the fact that people property right up to the road.
Then we have lamp posts on the side that need to be moved, why arent those power lines below the ground?

Who fault is that every few months 9,999 new vehicles on teh road? why dont they put a cap on that?

Give people alternative forms of transport and incentives to use them and then say south people consuming un necessary amounts of fuel.

In a way I can see why they not decentralising. If they did, who gonna use the current transport system they have in place and how taxi / maxi / ph men will make a dollar?
Its all about dollars and cents but they have to know how they spending too. Every so often they buying buses and not bringing parts. Buses condemned due to malfunctions and lack of avilable parts and when they announce "new buses" sheep's rejoice (PNM and PP alike) but none have enough sense to ask where the last set they buy?
Apart from lack of vehicles and mis management of funds the management at city gate sucks balls so many people prefer to not use it.

[pete]

One thing they could do right off is take $1Billion and buy a crapload of buses.. next billion to build bus terminals in Chaguanas, San Fernando, Grande etc and put some "Bus Only" lanes into Port of Spain.

Or.. all they need to do is let private companies purchase buses with scheduled time slots to pick up people, have fixed ticket pricing that are fair to both the businesses and travelling public..

But then one bus would take 4 or 5 maxis off the road so that's going to lead to some employment..

Trinidad really is in a crappy situation right now yes.. if the Government really wants to fix the problem it is possible but each step has its own repercussions.

[Aaron 2NR]

^how many south people car pool to pos for work?? not a lot.....

[SR]

dais cuz dem is shottas

[wagonrunner]

depends.
we all lived close enough, worked in the same building or close enough and limed together, so it worked.

[nervewrecker]

pete, ask how much maxi's it actually have running sando - pos nah

4 is plenty, sando people have to take p-town maxi's and drop off by mon repos sometimes.

On top that the maxi's in deplorable condition and you have to wait long for one during peak hours.

aaron, I know quite a few I can call off the top of my head. Why do they do it? to make up extra gas $$$.
I for one dont do it because the hour I on the road nobody want to get up.

[Stephon.]

Long short, transport system ain't reliable enough for people to even consider parking their cars at home, they would rather spend the money and be comfortable in their own vehicles.

[Conrad]

Long short, transport system ain't reliable OR SAFE enough for people to even consider parking their cars at home, they would rather spend the money and be comfortable in their own vehicles.

[wagonrunner]

not comfortable. convenient.
I'm a road warrior with lots of stops. And I tend to do everything I can in a day.
There is no means of public transportation that allows that especially at a cheaper cost than running the vehicles.

[S_2NR]

Long short, transport system ain't reliable OR SAFE enough for people to even consider parking their cars at home, they would rather spend the money and be comfortable in their own vehicles.

THIS!

[DJ Q]

Is it our fault roads not wide enough and they allow development to take place to an extent where roads cannot be widened in some places due to the fact that people property right up to the road.

Now this is an interesting point that I'd actually like to discuss.

I firmly do not believe that roads in Trinidad need to get any wider.
In my opinion, a lot of people focus on the wrong problem. The issue is not the volume of cars the highway can hold, but the velocity at which they can travel.

In all my years of driving, I have never experienced traffic past Grand Bazaar, heading south, UNLESS there is an accident or police searching.

The reason for that, again in my opinion, is that there are NO intersections on that highway. What we need, therefore, is the removal of more traffic lights on the highways.

If Churchill Roosevelt highway is constructed like Solomon Hochoy, we would definitely see a huge decrease in traffic.

Bottlenecking, in my opinion, is the issue.

If they simply replace main intersections with flyovers, traffic may even be abolished.

Places for flyovers (from port of spain go east):
- Lighthouse
- Beetham (already there)
- Maritime (already there)
- Aranguez* (needs modification)
- Grand Bazaar (in progress)
- Southern Main Road (Kaydonna)
- Macoya
- Piarco
- Arima (Tumpuna NOT O'Meara)

*Aranguez needs to extend the filter lane to meet the filter to the gran bazaar flyover to remove the traffic that starts due to south cars merging and people from aranguez merging as well.

Sounds difficult at first to drive past somewhere you accustomed to just swinging into, for example passing the bamboo to go all the way down to southern main road to come back up instead of just turning by cipriani college.

That my friends... is my idea of progress.
I hope the $4 billion goes there.

[mitsu_chick941]

pete, ask how much maxi's it actually have running sando - pos nah

4 is plenty, sando people have to take p-town maxi's and drop off by mon repos sometimes.

On top that the maxi's in deplorable condition and you have to wait long for one during peak hours.

aaron, I know quite a few I can call off the top of my head. Why do they do it? to make up extra gas $$$.
I for one dont do it because the hour I on the road nobody want to get up.

i do it, there a few who don't mind moving the time i do. The commute to POS from P/Town has gotton harder!

[Rory Phoulorie]

. . . .In all my years of driving, I have never experienced traffic past Grand Bazaar, heading south, UNLESS there is an accident or police searching. . . .

Head south today anytime between 4 p.m. and 6 p.m.

[mitsu_chick941]

@DJ Q, bottle necking isn't the only problem....its the idiotic drivers who add to the problem.

I am referring to interchange at GB, where people heading east take their time getting to the lights with 4-5 car length spaces in front of them and no concern for the pile at the back. Obviously with all the spaces at the front, cars going onto the interchange cant access it until they move ahead! Also the south bound cars on the far right lane wanting to cut across 2 lanes to get on the interchange! All that cause the traffic backup.

If people just do the right thing i'm sure some order would happen!

[silent_riot]

In the second article I linked, it quotes some interesting figures on page 11.
The largest part of the subsidy is obviously diesel, the interesting part of it, is that nearly half of diesel usage is consumed by Industry as opposed to service stations.
So premium users are actually subsidising industry operations.

On page 5-6, it says that T&T has 1 CNG installer with 9 CNG stations in total, none of which are in Tobago.

[narvin]

This is so true. If they had not had Diesel subsidized in the first place, there would not have been this issue and they keep doing it. I own a diesel vehicle and the only reason why is because of the said mind concept they have for years of not wanting to lift the subsidy because everything will go up so what the hell, I may as well buy one and benefit. It is a one time deal that has to be done and then subsidize the gas a little and encourage the population at large to utilize cleaner fuels which is being done worldwide. None of us here are thinking of future generations either and the environment. Everyone is thinking of themselves just like politicians who only think of filling their damn pockets and not really doing anything to help the people.

[Conrad]

Are we gonna see warranty backed CNG vehicles from the firm?

[wagonrunner]

I am referring to interchange at GB, where people heading east take their time getting to the lights with 4-5 car length spaces in front of them and no concern for the pile at the back. Obviously with all the spaces at the front, cars going onto the interchange cant access it until they move ahead!

THIS!!!

Also the south bound cars on the far right lane wanting to cut across 2 lanes to get on the interchange! All that cause the traffic backup.

tell me more about this one. Two lanes of standstill crawling VS 3 lanes of merging. Where is actually easier to cross?

Where the last vehicle merges from Aranguez, is where I come across to the extreme left. over two lanes, with no surprised to the left or rear of me, as everyone is already in lane.

[Stephon.]

Are we gonna see warranty backed CNG vehicles from the firm?

No.

[wagonrunner]

Are we gonna see warranty backed CNG vehicles from the firm?

No.

So the ones already here have no warranty?

[Dizzy28]

They seriously can't find 4b to keep the subsidy.

They can shave a 100-200m from each of the other ministries budgets to keep the population happy.

I can't name 1 ministry which performs at a level comparable to the private sector, yet they want so much money every year to operate. sigh.

You speak as if $4b is pocket change

[mitsu_chick941]

Also the south bound cars on the far right lane wanting to cut across 2 lanes to get on the interchange! All that cause the traffic backup.

tell me more about this one. Two lanes of standstill crawling VS 3 lanes of merging. Where is actually easier to cross?

Where the last vehicle merges from Aranguez, is where I come across to the extreme left. over two lanes, with no surprised to the left or rear of me, as everyone is already in lane.

get in lane before that....simple


i myself am guilty of that.

[sharkman121]

saw somewhere that the wealth of a country is not determined by whether the poor can afford to own multiple vehicles but when the rich can afford to take public transportation.

Once our public transport infrastructure becomes up to par it will be significantly easier.

[nemisis]

Nah even between 4-6 heading south traffic as bad as 6-7.30 heading into pos. the majority of south evening traffic is not volume of vehicles but either an accident or mass kantishness by taxi and others trying all manner of gimmic to speed down. If 12 cars drive down the shoulder that most likely 12 times some one ahead going to have to slow down to let them out or risk getting hit as they pull back onto the highway which in turns slows down the people to the back.....

[Crackpot]

It damn good for all ah allyuh, Patrick Manning woulda finish the interchange by Grand Bazaar by now and have bunji singing in the opening. Traffic woulda lighten up even more there.

Also when uncle Patos did say Rapid Rail allyuh fight down the man now allyuh want mass transit solutions. Negros please

[RBphoto]

Who is negros?

[De Dragon]

They seriously can't find 4b to keep the subsidy.

They can shave a 100-200m from each of the other ministries budgets to keep the population happy.

I can't name 1 ministry which performs at a level comparable to the private sector, yet they want so much money every year to operate. sigh.

You speak as if $4b is pocket change

It appears that oil and gas will last forever in this country

[PariaMan]

Why does the government not remove all taxes on Hybrid vehicles which give more than say 50 MPG or have a rebate system fof the purchase of these vehicles.

This way if you are currently getting 25 miles per gallon and you moving to 50 miles per gallon the price of gasoline can double and you cost remains the same!

I understand that in the USA there is such a rebate!