The Religion Discussion

[Humes]

Again you are presupposing on behalf of the writer? You do not know his vocabulary at the time.

Wow. You implying John of Patmos, the person who supposedly wrote the Book of Revelation, didn't know words for woman, face, death and bird?

Honestly, bluefete...is that what you're implying?


The man used the words face and woman in the very verses you quoted. Numerous descriptions of death and destruction, immediate and otherwise, are found in the book. So is bird, and so is spear, so is fire.

So what you really trying to say?

[Humes]

This should be good.

[QG]

bluefete, i give you credit for your strong faith, but you are heading down a path that has no closure and more quarrels lol.
*I am not telling anyone to stop, just laying it out as it is* lol.

It was very a informative discussion I find, I myself has gotten some questions from Duane and others that I will ask an experienced person.

I think I have contributed enough to this thread...I will now be departing from it, unless anyone has any more questions for me to answer?
I know when to draw the line in a never ending battle

But great points ALL.

Bless!

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ bluefete is persistent, I'll give him that. I can't believe that someone could be so bad at comprehension, so I'll deduce that he has made some bad points but doenst want to admit he lost - just like in his other thread where he said he was just pulling our leg to see what everyone's thoughts were - I have a feeling he will try that one here too when he finally realises he cant win.

I am not against anyone here, but I will tell you what the Jehova Witness thinks about that verse in the bible; with respect to Giants.
The Witness said that in the scriptures, it states that Giants (Human) came from Angels having sex with humans.
One pointed out to me, that tall people like those NBA basketballers came from an ancestrial background from Angels having sex with humans.
Can Science prove that, i doubt lol.

Science cannot prove that which is not true!

I think God wiped out that whole continent due to abominations etc and those Angels were killed.

there have been quite a few episodes of God wiping out everything due to abominations. But clearly there are far far more abominations by far far more people today. The population of the earth today is far more than it was then, more people = more sin committed - another "wiping" should have happened a long time ago, why hasn't it?

please don't answer with "God works in mysterious ways" - I want to know what YOU think

why have there been no real miracles, parting of the red sea, Noah's Ark, walking on water kinda activity over the past couple thousand years? There were so much in biblical times. Surely the world is a smaller place now with regards to truth being spread around the world in seconds with the internet - if something were to happen of this caliber we would immediately find out - why no more miracles? Why are all the great people of our time of different religions from each other, Gandhi, Mother Theresa, Malcolm X.

I think we do not understand who or what God is - and we have devised religion and texts to support what WE want to believe.

[DFC]

this thread needs some humor...

[Gladiator]

I think bluefete and QG need to visit the Car and Auto Parts forum and look for some good synthetic motor oil to lubricate the rusty cog wheels in their heads.....

[Humes]

I think we do not understand who or what God is - and we have devised religion and texts to support what WE want to believe.

That's my view as well.

[bluefete]

^ bluefete is persistent, I'll give him that. I can't believe that someone could be so bad at comprehension, so I'll deduce that he has made some bad points but doenst want to admit he lost - just like in his other thread where he said he was just pulling our leg to see what everyone's thoughts were - I have a feeling he will try that one here too when he finally realises he cant win.

I am not against anyone here, but I will tell you what the Jehova Witness thinks about that verse in the bible; with respect to Giants.
The Witness said that in the scriptures, it states that Giants (Human) came from Angels having sex with humans.
One pointed out to me, that tall people like those NBA basketballers came from an ancestrial background from Angels having sex with humans.
Can Science prove that, i doubt lol.

Science cannot prove that which is not true!

I think God wiped out that whole continent due to abominations etc and those Angels were killed.

there have been quite a few episodes of God wiping out everything due to abominations. But clearly there are far far more abominations by far far more people today. The population of the earth today is far more than it was then, more people = more sin committed - another "wiping" should have happened a long time ago, why hasn't it?

please don't answer with "God works in mysterious ways" - I want to know what YOU think

why have there been no real miracles, parting of the red sea, Noah's Ark, walking on water kinda activity over the past couple thousand years? There were so much in biblical times. Surely the world is a smaller place now with regards to truth being spread around the world in seconds with the internet - if something were to happen of this caliber we would immediately find out - why no more miracles? Why are all the great people of our time of different religions from each other, Gandhi, Mother Theresa, Malcolm X.

I think we do not understand who or what God is - and we have devised religion and texts to support what WE want to believe.

Those are some great questions, Duane. But is it that these things do not happen or that we have "logical" explanations for them?

After all, some 2NR's explained away the plagues in Egypt as a natural phenomenon.

A pity they could not provide a rational explanation for the parting of the Red Sea. But there is one. God caused the sea to go back all that night by a strong East wind. The Bible says so.

A natural explanation for a supernatural action.

Given the proof that is lying around waiting to be discovered by the archaeologists it is not unlikely that one day we will have a rational explanation for raising people from the dead.

Why do the great people come from different religions?
Simple answer. The same God made all of us. Men made religion. God made us.

He uses whomsoever he wills, regardless of religion.

Did you ever pay attention to the one great universal prayer that Jesus taught- The Lord's Prayer?

It starts - Our Father - not the Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Satya & so on Father - but Our - Meaning Father of everyone on the entire earth, regardless of religion.

who art in Heaven - There is a physical heaven and a spiritual heaven (we won't get into that right now)

Hallowed be Thy name - God's name is to be praised. But the Devil has twisted that to such an extent that we curse and damn God and spit out his name like mud. Just watch any rated show on our local tv or cable channels.

Thy kingdom come - God is not yet ready to change the natural order of things. His kingdom will be set up eventually.

Thy will be done - I have already showed how Jesus Christ subjected himself to the will of the Father in the garden of Gethsemane.

On earth, as it is in heaven - God's perfect will is carried out in earth and in heaven

Give us this day, our daily bread - God knows and supplies all our needs even when it does not seem so to us. Regularly and without fail.

And forgive us our debts - This recognizes that we are all sinners and we need God's forgiveness and saving grace in our lives.

As we forgive our debtors - To be forgiven by God we must also be willing to forgive those who have wronged us

And lead us not into temptation - This recognizes our frailties and susceptibility to get into trouble. Temptation takes many forms and we deal with it daily.

But deliver us from evil - Giving in to temptation causes us to fall into the hands of the evil one.

For thine is the kingdom - Again reiterating the fact that God's perfect kingdom will one day be established

The power and the glory, forever - All power and glory belongs to God for all eternity.


No human being understands who or what God is. You sure are correct there. The created cannot understand the creator because the creator is higher than the createe.

With respect to real miracles today - they do happen. But not in the big ways of long ago. Or maybe I might be wrong there.

We had a tsunami a few years ago that killed more than one quarter of a million people. Yeah that was a natural event too, easily explained away.

God had nothing to so with it. Just a natural earthquake that caused a big wave. Logical.

[bluefete]

DFC:


Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo NOT FUNNY. At all. But that is between you and your maker.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Why do the great people come from different religions?
Simple answer. The same God made all of us. Men made religion. God made us.

He uses whomsoever he wills, regardless of religion.

bluefete contradiction #421
So the God of your bible made Gandhi a great man and kept him practicing Hinduism his entire life and not solely as a devout Christian?

Even Mother Theresa saw to it that in the hospice she ran that dying patients "were afforded the opportunity to die with dignity, according to the rituals of their faith; Muslims were read the Quran, Hindus received water from the Ganges, and Catholics received the Last Rites"

surely your jealous God would not allow this!

[3stagevtec]

WOW. God is amazing. Just when the "licks" from the critics were bowing me a bit, God sent in the troops, with more people posting in favour of God.

yet he leaves so much innocent people to suffer..

there i go, replying again...

1) Does he leave innocent people to suffer?

2) The human condition is as a result of sin. Suffering is as a result of sin.

3) Why do you blame God for that?

4) Remember Adam & Eve were given choices and their choices resonate to this day. That is why God sent Jesus Christ to help us. A perfect sacrifice for a sinful world.

5) That is why people who believe in God have a hope for a world beyond this one.

This life is only fleeting.

1) Yes..

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/9ew3h/man_kidnaps_a_11_year_old_girl_keeps_her_locked/

2) she was only 11 when kidnapped.. how much sin could an 11year old girl possibly do to deserve that??

3) I do NOT blame god for this.. You guys insisting there is a god though is what i don't like.. If there was a god, why didn't he help her? why did he allow such torture onto an innocent girl?

now, you are going to say he has some mystical plan for her etc etc.. but NOTHING is worth what she went through..

4) The Adam / Eve story kinda lame to be honest.. That's the best your god could come up with? That's how he chooses to teach people? kinda sad if you ask me...

5) well, i have hope for this world.. even though we are living in a world of sheit when you really look at it..

[3stagevtec]

And when exactly did we "brightsparks" discover this?

When exactly did the Bible mention it?

bump..

[copper_shot]

[3stagevtec]

" ... he hangeth the earth upon nothing" (Job 26:7)

But bluefete, the Earth is not hanging upon nothing. There are vastly powerful gravitational forces at play.

Where does the Book of Job mention gravity? He says nothing. Not gravity.

Humes, my friend: You are grasping at straws now.



Any questions?

that was an embarrassing response blue.. gravitational forces man..

here's a factual read..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_orbit

[Gladiator]

bluefete wrote:
Humes wrote:
bluefete wrote:
" ... he hangeth the earth upon nothing" (Job 26:7)



But bluefete, the Earth is not hanging upon nothing. There are vastly powerful gravitational forces at play.

Where does the Book of Job mention gravity? He says nothing. Not gravity.


Humes, my friend: You are grasping at straws now.



Any questions?


that was an embarrassing response blue.. gravitational forces man..

here's a factual read..

According to the bible that should have been a huge flat oblonged shaped object out there.....

[3stagevtec]

7And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.

8And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.

9And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.

10And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.



Look closely just under the wing.


Look closely at the very end of the plane.



So if you were John on the island of Patmos way back when, how would you describe these?[

are you saying in points 7 - 10, John way back in his time, was able to predict the fighter planes you posted??

if so, those points could mean ANYTHING.. you just chose to associate them with the depicted planes.. i could paint a war face onto the front of my Vitara and it could be the same thing..

[3stagevtec]

http://www.s8int.com/noahsark1.html

look a good read

This is quite good as well:

http://www.arkdiscovery.com/mt__sinai_found.htm

what i see is people looking for answers and fooling themselves into thinking they found them.. where is the scientific evidence? where is the factual proof?

the picture of the split rock for example.. that looks like a natural formation to me.. if you don't think something like that can form naturally, google Moab Utah and enjoy that scenery..

[3stagevtec]

Enjoy..

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MeSSwKffj9o&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed>

[Sky]

[quote="Humes"][quote="bluefete"]" ... he hangeth the earth upon nothing" (Job 26:7)

But bluefete, the Earth is not hanging upon nothing. There are vastly powerful gravitational forces at play.

Where does the Book of Job mention gravity? He says nothing. Not gravity.

Humes, my friend: You are grasping at straws now.



Any questions?

you do know the earth is held in place by the gravitational pull of the sun right, jus like how the moon is to the earth ?? did you skip school altogether and jus went bible class?[/quote]

And when exactly did we "brightsparks" discover this?[/quote]

Are you serious?
That's your comeback?
He proved you wrong and you twisted the subject?
Do you have a twat? Are you a woman?
Only women argue like that.
I'm sorry, but i'll give up now. Go ahead and say I can't fight the power of God, but I know the truth.
You're a blind, idiot coated idiot with idiot filling.
Like millions of christians, you MISS THE POINT!!!
Imagine you believe there is a god, while I know there is one. Imagine I don't go to church and I get it more than millions of you. And this is really sad, but this is the reality of things. Go ahead and say I could only resort to insults, but you haven't replied to my post YET. You're a sheep like the rest of them, who serve man and not God himself. Pops gonna be pissed with you eh man. Go ahead.
I told you a few pages ago, God is there, but leave man out of the equation. You ignored me, continuing to spray your BS on 2nr, thinking you're doing something good, while doing it in fear lol. Heaven? Hell? Thas incentive hoss.

You really think a supreme diety, not bound by physical limitations would want you to kneel down to show humility? That is an uncomfortable position. Humility's in the heart!!!

You really think God would put his son through all that stress as a sacrifice for us? US? Why? Because it's the custom? He's God. You wanna talk about infallable but he cant just wipe sins away?

You really think God inspired the entire bible? It contradicts itself dozens of times? Why? Because men wrote it, NOT GOD!!

And you wanna talk about how man dotish? It take so long for them to discover this and that? You've never been a leader.
3 Commandments:
Take care of yourself
Take care of each other
Know who is God

Talk done. They cover EVERY commendment moses bring down the hill from "God"

I could go on and on, but I don't need to go on. You see, everyone finds God in their own way, and I don't need to spread the gospel like you. I'm not bound to that. And I getting more props from God than you. Imagine that If I ask him a question NOW he will answer. What about you? Praying for health? Praying for stuff you can't get, then justifying it by saying it's his will and when it'll be it'll be? I also told you to do something a few pages ago. Just lie down, or sit, or while you're driving, and talk to God, don't pray. no bs words you always say. Just talk to him.
"when this happening?"
"thanks for so and so eh"
"Can I do this? What should I do?
"Can I get this? It'll help with so and so"

Know how I got my current job?
"Jed, u aint find I suffer enough? When I gettin a break jed?"
Next day I got call to an interview and they asked me to start immediately.
You wanna put your version of God against mine?
You wanna BS ppl on the internet and fight down petty arguments and think you're doing good?
You wanna kneel and pray when it's all futile, but you're such a sheep you stick with it because someday you'll be better off?
Lol christians suffer a lot because they depend on their god to spoonfeed them, and they do squat for themselves, except of course the leaders who financially drain other christians.

And guess what, most of the people fighting you down in this thread have their own faiths. But they're fighting down the sheep attitude you have.

Maybe you'll read this post with an open mind and not come back with any bs about space and the bible.

Want some hard evidence against these fellas?
God write off the Isrealites. TO THIS DAY Israel have some problem or the other

They found a vessel ontop a mountain Doh ask meh where my info is, it was on Nat Geo. It was too far up to be pulled up there. The carbon dating matched Noah's time and the dimensions matched the bible's.

They said Jesus went missing for some time. A Russian went to Tibet and see some writing about a man who was there for the same amount of time AT THE SAME TIME. He realise it was Jesus.

THEY FOUND THE BOOKS OF MARY MAGDALINE AND JUDAS. Jesus tell de man to sell him out!! Christians write it off because it meana woman was one of them.

Mt. Calvary STILL THERE!!

Jerusalem STILL THERE!!

Go ahead sheep. Look your hard evidence. This was all on Nat Geo channel. But I guess the Scientists trying to disprove God right? So you stay away from that channel lol.
I do all I could this hr, so toodles...

[cinco]

wow
i think Duane should ban bluefete god will unban him to spread his word

[DFC]

Is God Intelligent?

The Christian God is said to be omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good. Given these characteristics, is it possible that God is not a thinking being?

The argument for an unintelligent God would go something like this: God is perfectly good. This means that, in any situation, God would behave morally. If there is more than one possible moral behavior, God would choose the one that is the most moral, because that one is the most perfectly good. If God must do the most good thing, then God really has no choice about how He behaves. Since no choice is involved, no reasoning is needed. If no reasoning is needed, then God does not need to be intelligent.

An obvious counter to this argument is that intelligence is needed to sort through possible behaviors and select those that are the most good. But if “goodâ€

[DFC]

[bluefete]

Why do the great people come from different religions?
Simple answer. The same God made all of us. Men made religion. God made us.

He uses whomsoever he wills, regardless of religion.

bluefete contradiction #421
So the God of your bible made Gandhi a great man and kept him practicing Hinduism his entire life and not solely as a devout Christian?

Even Mother Theresa saw to it that in the hospice she ran that dying patients "were afforded the opportunity to die with dignity, according to the rituals of their faith; Muslims were read the Quran, Hindus received water from the Ganges, and Catholics received the Last Rites"

surely your jealous God would not allow this!

Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi while practising law in South Africa in the early part of the 20th.C was continually being invited to church by his Christian friends who wanted him to convert to Christianity.

One Sunday he decided to take them up on the offer. He reached as far as the church door when he was blocked from entering the church. When asked why, he was told that he had the wrong skin colour for entrance.

Gandhi's classic response was that if the Christian God discriminates against people based on skin colour, then he would die a Hindu.

God chooses people regardless of their religious affiliation to do his great work. You will find this in all cultures.

Remember Duane, regardless of religion, we are all created by the same God.

Or maybe, one God passed on the blueprint for humans to the others and they took the pattern from there because it sure is strange that notwithstanding different religions, how human beings all have defining characteristics.

[bluefete]

[quote="bluefete"][quote="Humes"][quote="bluefete"]" ... he hangeth the earth upon nothing" (Job 26:7)

But bluefete, the Earth is not hanging upon nothing. There are vastly powerful gravitational forces at play.

Where does the Book of Job mention gravity? He says nothing. Not gravity.

Humes, my friend: You are grasping at straws now.



Any questions?

you do know the earth is held in place by the gravitational pull of the sun right, jus like how the moon is to the earth ?? did you skip school altogether and jus went bible class?[/quote]

And when exactly did we "brightsparks" discover this?[/quote]

Are you serious?
That's your comeback?
He proved you wrong and you twisted the subject?
Do you have a twat? Are you a woman?
Only women argue like that.
I'm sorry, but i'll give up now. Go ahead and say I can't fight the power of God, but I know the truth.
You're a blind, idiot coated idiot with idiot filling.
Like millions of christians, you MISS THE POINT!!!
Imagine you believe there is a god, while I know there is one. Imagine I don't go to church and I get it more than millions of you. And this is really sad, but this is the reality of things. Go ahead and say I could only resort to insults, but you haven't replied to my post YET. You're a sheep like the rest of them, who serve man and not God himself. Pops gonna be pissed with you eh man. Go ahead.
I told you a few pages ago, God is there, but leave man out of the equation. You ignored me, continuing to spray your BS on 2nr, thinking you're doing something good, while doing it in fear lol. Heaven? Hell? Thas incentive hoss.

You really think a supreme diety, not bound by physical limitations would want you to kneel down to show humility? That is an uncomfortable position. Humility's in the heart!!!

You really think God would put his son through all that stress as a sacrifice for us? US? Why? Because it's the custom? He's God. You wanna talk about infallable but he cant just wipe sins away?

You really think God inspired the entire bible? It contradicts itself dozens of times? Why? Because men wrote it, NOT GOD!!

And you wanna talk about how man dotish? It take so long for them to discover this and that? You've never been a leader.
3 Commandments:
Take care of yourself
Take care of each other
Know who is God

Talk done. They cover EVERY commendment moses bring down the hill from "God"

I could go on and on, but I don't need to go on. You see, everyone finds God in their own way, and I don't need to spread the gospel like you. I'm not bound to that. And I getting more props from God than you. Imagine that If I ask him a question NOW he will answer. What about you? Praying for health? Praying for stuff you can't get, then justifying it by saying it's his will and when it'll be it'll be? I also told you to do something a few pages ago. Just lie down, or sit, or while you're driving, and talk to God, don't pray. no bs words you always say. Just talk to him.
"when this happening?"
"thanks for so and so eh"
"Can I do this? What should I do?
"Can I get this? It'll help with so and so"

Know how I got my current job?
"Jed, u aint find I suffer enough? When I gettin a break jed?"
Next day I got call to an interview and they asked me to start immediately.
You wanna put your version of God against mine?
You wanna BS ppl on the internet and fight down petty arguments and think you're doing good?
You wanna kneel and pray when it's all futile, but you're such a sheep you stick with it because someday you'll be better off?
Lol christians suffer a lot because they depend on their god to spoonfeed them, and they do squat for themselves, except of course the leaders who financially drain other christians.

And guess what, most of the people fighting you down in this thread have their own faiths. But they're fighting down the sheep attitude you have.

Maybe you'll read this post with an open mind and not come back with any bs about space and the bible.

Want some hard evidence against these fellas?
God write off the Isrealites. TO THIS DAY Israel have some problem or the other

They found a vessel ontop a mountain Doh ask meh where my info is, it was on Nat Geo. It was too far up to be pulled up there. The carbon dating matched Noah's time and the dimensions matched the bible's.

They said Jesus went missing for some time. A Russian went to Tibet and see some writing about a man who was there for the same amount of time AT THE SAME TIME. He realise it was Jesus.

THEY FOUND THE BOOKS OF MARY MAGDALINE AND JUDAS. Jesus tell de man to sell him out!! Christians write it off because it meana woman was one of them.

Mt. Calvary STILL THERE!!

Jerusalem STILL THERE!!

Go ahead sheep. Look your hard evidence. This was all on Nat Geo channel. But I guess the Scientists trying to disprove God right? So you stay away from that channel lol.
I do all I could this hr, so toodles...[/quote]

Sky: I am glad you got the job by asking the Man. There are times in life we ask God for things and it is not given to us. Like any wise Father, God knows when to allow things to happen. Sometimes what we ask for is not in our best interest.

If your child comes and asks you for a scorpion as a pet, would you give him/her?

This is not about fighting you breds. What makes you think that I am unlike you in approach.

You say "Jed', I say "Pops". In many ways you have supported what I have written all along.

Thank you and God Bless and keep you and everyone else reading this thread.

[bluefete]

[quote="the_DFC"]










Is God Intelligent?

The Christian God is said to be omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good. Given these characteristics, is it possible that God is not a thinking being?

The argument for an unintelligent God would go something like this: God is perfectly good. This means that, in any situation, God would behave morally. If there is more than one possible moral behavior, God would choose the one that is the most moral, because that one is the most perfectly good. If God must do the most good thing, then God really has no choice about how He behaves. Since no choice is involved, no reasoning is needed. If no reasoning is needed, then God does not need to be intelligent.

An obvious counter to this argument is that intelligence is needed to sort through possible behaviors and select those that are the most good. But if “goodâ€

[buzz]

do erm isn't the topic "your best encounter with god" ?

sounds like "your best encounter with the bible" IMO

[bluefete]

do erm isn't the topic "your best encounter with god" ?

sounds like "your best encounter with the bible" IMO

It started off that way until the "rationalisers" put their own spin to it.

[Humes]

Again you are presupposing on behalf of the writer? You do not know his vocabulary at the time.

Wow. You implying John of Patmos, the person who supposedly wrote the Book of Revelation, didn't know words for woman, face, death and bird?

Honestly, bluefete...is that what you're implying?


The man used the words face and woman in the very verses you quoted. Numerous descriptions of death and destruction, immediate and otherwise, are found in the book. So is bird, and so is spear, so is fire.

So what you really trying to say?

[bushwakka]

You know it is amazing how God is working through this thread. Even as we debate, he is throwing things out (realtime) in the natural world for us to see evidence of his existence.

THIS IS THE SCIENTIFIC PROOF THAT YOU DOUBTERS WANTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ah kno ah real late on dis one eh...buh u ever hear abt anaerobic respiration bluefete?

[Razkal]

Eid Mubarak to the ppl who chose the right religion, it was all over BBC this morning bluefete....Islam is the way to get saved....so sorry you ate the bible chain-up